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Should I get this paraiba ring?

icy_jade

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However, I've heard (perhaps erroneously) that for paraibas, the transparency is a side effect of not having many inclusions, so it's a trade-off between two evils.

Nah. Windows are due to cut issues. You can have transparent gems with no windows.

Putting a plate behind the stone can maybe help minimize the effect of a window. A nice big Paraiba with good clarity and nice color is hard to come by so but given the price you are paying, you have to decide if the trade off is acceptable?
 

rubberducky

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Nah. Windows are due to cut issues. You can have transparent gems with no windows.

Putting a plate behind the stone can maybe help minimize the effect of a window. A nice big Paraiba with good clarity and nice color is hard to come by so but given the price you are paying, you have to decide if the trade off is acceptable?

That makes sense. What do you think would be a reasonable price per carat given the window here?
 

icy_jade

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That makes sense. What do you think would be a reasonable price per carat given the window here?

Unfortunately I’m not familiar with Paraiba pricing, but would hazard a guess that windows don’t really matter to most buyers out there. That’s what I heard from some jewellers and maybe that’s also why I saw so many windowed stones in various stores
 

rubberducky

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Unfortunately I’m not familiar with Paraiba pricing, but would hazard a guess that windows don’t really matter to most buyers out there. That’s what I heard from some jewellers and maybe that’s also why I saw so many windowed stones in various stores

Exactly why are windows bad? I've sort of memorized this as a given but is it because

1. The window means light isn't reflecting back, so the gem doesn't look as nice as it could, or

2. Windows are ugly

I could believe either one of these, although for (1), why doesn't the overall look of the stone trump this, and for (2), how visible are they to others?

Or is it more a mind-cleanliness thing?
 

icy_jade

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Exactly why are windows bad?

Well, for one the part where there is a window doesn’t look at nice. Less sparkly, color not as intense etc

I used to mind windows more greatly, but now can accept some degree of window depending on rarity of stone, shade of color and price. Some compromises can be accepted imo if there are other factors that attracts me to the stone. But it really does vary.

Suppose it’s like lower colored diamonds? Some people don’t mind low colors at all and some can only accept icy white diamonds. Either is fine, it’s not wrong just a personal choice. But that’s just my personal view of course =)2
 

chrono

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Windowing is a cut defect. Like in diamonds, a bad cut means light leakage and so the gem doesn't sparkle to its max potential. The same goes for CS. It means the colour and sparkle is not fully reflected back to the viewer and the middle becomes a dead zone.

Some are more forgiving of windows in uber rare stones because there's limited choices. Most will not accept windowing in more common gems such as blue topaz, red brown garnet, aquamarine, amethyst, etc.
 

rubberducky

Rough_Rock
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Windowing is a cut defect. Like in diamonds, a bad cut means light leakage and so the gem doesn't sparkle to its max potential. The same goes for CS. It means the colour and sparkle is not fully reflected back to the viewer and the middle becomes a dead zone.

Does that mean if the stone otherwise looks nice, it's okay to have a window? I'm guessing the window here was a result of giving it a bigger face-up size, and it's pretty saturated despite the window.
 

chrono

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The window in this stone is to maximize the ct weight, so it is cut shallowly to preserve weight. Whether you accept the window is personal choice. I do not have the stone in front of me so I cannot tell the colour accuracy, the liveliness and brilliance of the stone and cannot balance that out with the cost (pros and cons).

What is the dimensions of the stone in the memo (depth, height, length)?
 

rubberducky

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Sorry, not sure what "in the memo" is referring to, but this stone is a little bigger in each direction than 14x10x6.5.

The stone hopefully looks acceptable (from afar, but possibly not up close). As I understand, the ring was made for Caroline Scheufele, she wore it to some event, and now they're selling it.
 

chrono

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Yes, it is a very shallow stone and cut to preserve weight, based on the dimensions you listed. This is not necessarily a bad thing but sometimes it is.

1. Does the window bother you?
2. Is the price acceptable to you?
3. Will you regret it if you let it go?
 

rubberducky

Rough_Rock
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1. Does the window bother you?
2. Is the price acceptable to you?
3. Will you regret it if you let it go?

1. I'm not sure, probably not? To be honest, I didn't even see it the first time I tried on the ring, and only noticed at home from looking at that photo.

2. Hard to say. I don't mind spending this much on a ring, but I'd hate to find out later that it's overpriced and I could've gotten something nicer for the same cost, or that I could get something similar for a lot less.

3. Also not sure. I don't have a good sense of how rare something like this is. If I never get another chance to have a nice paraiba like this, I'd probably regret it, but if I see another one like it in a year, probably not?
 

chrono

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An item like this doesn't come around anymore these says. I'd make sure the lab memo is up to date and see if there's any wiggle room on pricing.

How old is the lab memo and where is it from again?
I think you mentioned it is not oiled or resin filled and from Brazil? Is the origin stated in the lab memo?
 

rubberducky

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An item like this doesn't come around anymore these says. I'd make sure the lab memo is up to date and see if there's any wiggle room on pricing.

How old is the lab memo and where is it from again?
I think you mentioned it is not oiled or resin filled and from Brazil? Is the origin stated in the lab memo?

I can try to work on the price more but they've already chopped off $10k and given that they need to remake the setting, I'm not sure if there's any more room.

It's a GGTL report from 2014, and says its physical and chemical properties are like those found in Africa (ha, what a cautious way of speaking!). The lab clarified that it hasn't been treated or discernibly heated, which is why nothing about treatment is on the report, but I'm going to see if they can write down explicitly that there's no treatment (I assume this will be important if I ever try to sell it?).
 

T L

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I personally would not pay a premium because a stone is Brazilian. You have to make sure it really lives up to the top quality of what Brazilian stones looked like when paraiba was first discovered there. I see many Mozambique stones that could easily pass for Brazilian. That being said, I would not rule out Mozambique material, as I’ve seen some that easily rivals Brazilian.

Here’s an example of an African stone:

 
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minousbijoux

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6+ carat, high clarity, saturated cuprian/paraibas are rare. I would not go into this thinking its either this one or another "down the street," because another will be hard to find. Because of the rarity, such stones go for a premium. So, I reiterate questions already posed:
  • Do you love it and can you afford it?
  • Will you regret it if you let it go?
That is how I would base my decision if it were me. Fwiw, it sure appears to be a lovely stone and looks gorgeous on your hand.
 

rubberducky

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Because of the rarity, such stones go for a premium.
How much of a premium are we talking here?

To answer the other questions:

I think I like it about as much as my other pieces that cost about this much, which is to say I like it a lot. It's different from the rest of my collection and fills a gap in my wardrobe, so that's a good thing.

On the other hand, I don't "need" a paraiba (who does, really?) and wasn't even looking for one. I struggle to find nice colorful rings that go well with my skin tone (yellows, oranges, and pinks look bad), and this is a nice CS that actually works for me, but I'm not particularly axed for a paraiba over other colors.
 

minousbijoux

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I would skip it if I were you. Nothing in what you write makes it sound like you're in love with it and that you will regret not buying it.

As for premium, your best bet is to find some comps. I bet you will have difficulty finding something of that clarity at that size and color (with no treatment), but you'll be able to extrapolate from what you do find.
 

fredflintstone

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Jul 18, 2020
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Irradiation is in fact almost impossible to detect in tourmalines.

The criteria used for the identification of heat and/or irradiation treatments are generally not conclusive enough to positively distinguish treated from untreated Paraiba. So you won’t get a lab report saying it is unheated.

Yep.
 

fredflintstone

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Just an update-- the paraiba was sent off to the original lab yesterday, seller thinks it hasn't been treated except maybe some light heating. If GGTL has a policy of not opining on on treatment (possible since the report doesn't even have that section), then he'll send it to another lab.

Assuming all there is is light heating, how can I further tell the "quality" of the stone? And what's a reasonable price per carat?

It all depends on the market that it is selling in. If it is brick & mortar, $10,000 a carat is not out of the question and more. Even internet prices for a top quality Paraiba that size can be $10,000 a carat ftom either Nigeria or Mozambique and more. You will pay a much higher price for Braziian and as has been mentioned it is not suitable for every day wear. But if you are careful... =)2
 
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qubitasaurus

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Thank you everyone for your insights!



Is the see-throughness an issue that impacts the value? It was something I noticed in-person and was a bit concerned about (and yes, that's my hand, and the color is fairly accurate, maybe a little more sky-blue in real life).



The current settling is this swirly thing where the band goes around the too and bottom of the stone and covers the whole height. It leaves the sides pretty exposed and lets light pass through.

All of the metal is covered in pavé (just like the band in the photo), and I'm not really a halo/pavé/bling kind of girl. I'd like to go with just metal if possible, but I wonder if that would look too heavy. I also assume the current metal structure is designed to optimally show the stone, and I'm also worried that changing it top much would make it look worse somehow, but I am pretty hung up on all that pavé.

Sorry I didn't think to take a picture from the side, would be useful now :(

If they're resetting anyway look at Mc2jewels instagram. I also dont like pave, I prefer clean lines and if I want one thing then I want that thing, not a shovel of other bits tacked on. But you should consider either building up metal arround the shoulders or that gem or an unconventional halo which isnt straight round cut pave.

No matter how careful you intend to be, eventually you will find life is too short amd youre too busy to be thinking about it all the time.
 
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LilAlex

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I dislike pave as a rule. I love simple -- let the center colored-stone shine. But in this instance, I really like the ring. I can't envision how that ring will look better on a plain band or with a halo. Two- or three-ct ruby or sapphire, sure. But not that stone. I think there is a reason that they mounted it that way and it has to do with the size -- which is at the upper limits of wearability for mortals.
 

AnastasiaBeaverhausen

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How much of a premium are we talking here?

To answer the other questions:

I think I like it about as much as my other pieces that cost about this much, which is to say I like it a lot. It's different from the rest of my collection and fills a gap in my wardrobe, so that's a good thing.

On the other hand, I don't "need" a paraiba (who does, really?) and wasn't even looking for one. I struggle to find nice colorful rings that go well with my skin tone (yellows, oranges, and pinks look bad), and this is a nice CS that actually works for me, but I'm not particularly axed for a paraiba over other colors.

I would skip it if I were you. Nothing in what you write makes it sound like you're in love with it and that you will regret not buying it.

As for premium, your best bet is to find some comps. I bet you will have difficulty finding something of that clarity at that size and color (with no treatment), but you'll be able to extrapolate from what you do find.

I'm getting the same read here as @minousbijoux did, @rubberducky. It sounds like you're more interested in the idea of having this ring and finding such a rare piece than actually wanting it so you could wear it and enjoy it?
 

rubberducky

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Thanks everyone for the thoughts and comp suggestions! Still mulling it over..

It sounds like you're more interested in the idea of having this ring and finding such a rare piece than actually wanting it so you could wear it and enjoy it?

I think I'm not expressing myself well :(. If I got this, I would totally wear it a ton (gotta get that cost-per-wear down!), but I don't really get emotional and "have to have it" about anything, not just jewelry.
 

AnastasiaBeaverhausen

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Thanks everyone for the thoughts and comp suggestions! Still mulling it over..



I think I'm not expressing myself well :(. If I got this, I would totally wear it a ton (gotta get that cost-per-wear down!), but I don't really get emotional and "have to have it" about anything, not just jewelry.

Oh it's not you! I totally misread what you were saying.

Would it help sway your decision one way or the other if you find a different setting that would just make your heart sing? *whispers* my vote would be for a split shank halo....
 
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