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Should I get this paraiba ring?

rubberducky

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Hi all,

I recently tried on this paraiba ring and thought it was very pretty. It's also very expensive, though, and I don't know much about paraiba pricing.

From the internet, it looks like a "good quality" stone should be about 10k/ct... Is this accurate? What's considered good quality?

Also not in love with the setting and am looking for alternative suggestions ☺️

IMG_20210214_212544.jpg

Thanks in advance!
 

rubberducky

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It has a report from GGTL, which I've never heard of before, but it's a reputable store, so I assume nothing shady is going on?
 

Bron357

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If it’s GGTL Geneva it’s a reputable lab.
you need the lab report to say “no evidence of heating / treatment” and you want, ideally, a Brazil origin.
And yes, in sizes over 3 carats and VVS clarity you will pay $10k a carat. For that price point you also want no treatments/ heating.
Looks to be a lovely gem and well cut.
 

rubberducky

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Looks like the report is from Geneva but doesn't say anything either way about heating or treatments, there just isn't a section for it -- does that mean it has been heated/treated? Also, looks to be of African origin.
 

chrono

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Valuation will differ greatly depending on whether it is untreated or oiled/resin filled. I would not buy without knowing this critical information.
 

lovedogs

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Valuation will differ greatly depending on whether it is untreated or oiled/resin filled. I would not buy without knowing this critical information.

This. You need this info .
 

JackTrick

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I’ve heard good things about GGTL. But I’m curious what kind of lab report wouldn’t test for heating/treatment? Was it just testing that it is a cuprian tourmaline?
 

Ionysis

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Irradiation is in fact almost impossible to detect in tourmalines.

The criteria used for the identification of heat and/or irradiation treatments are generally not conclusive enough to positively distinguish treated from untreated Paraiba. So you won’t get a lab report saying it is unheated.
 

rubberducky

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The current report mostly just has dimensions and that it's a paraiba variety elbaite tourmaline, probably from Africa, and of natural origin. The salesperson is reaching out to the lab to update the report and will hear back definitively on that tomorrow.
 

lovedogs

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@Bron357 is the price normal for copper-bearing stones out of Africa? I thought those kinds of prices were exclusive to Brazillian origin.
 

rubberducky

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Just an update-- the paraiba was sent off to the original lab yesterday, seller thinks it hasn't been treated except maybe some light heating. If GGTL has a policy of not opining on on treatment (possible since the report doesn't even have that section), then he'll send it to another lab.

Assuming all there is is light heating, how can I further tell the "quality" of the stone? And what's a reasonable price per carat?
 

rubberducky

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Looking online, it seems like Brazilian stones are like 15k/ct? And they come much smaller, like only 2-3 ct generally, and most paraibas are heated. What am I missing here?
 

minousbijoux

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Do you know the carat weight of the stone? It appears to be a high quality Paraiba with good clarity. Therefore, whether or not its Brazilian, it will command a premium (obviously all things being equal, Brazilian's more so).
 

rubberducky

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Actually just heard back from the lab! Apparently the original report didn't have anything on treatment because there was none, and no discernible heating.

The stone is a little over 6ct, dimensions a little over 14x10x6.5.
 

qubitasaurus

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Has someone mentioned you cant wear this as an everyday ring? You can wear it out to dinner/lunch/breakfast but definitely not all the time.

I dont think the price is crazy, but you could get a beautiful ring with a more robust stone like a sapphire or spinel for a similar amount of money and buy a much smaller paraiba. They wont glow as much as the paraiba but they are stones which you can be less worried about if you accidentally whacked them on the top of a draw, so it kind of depends what you want.

In any case can look at paraiba international for alternatives, or go scroll through the instagram account of amsterdam pearls to find the vendor there.

By the way this vendor typically runs 15% off multiple times throughout the year


Its not 6 ct, but its brazilian in origin and less than 10k per ct (will be significantly less if it goes on sale). I would probably have bought it over the 6 ct even if it was a little more included. But you would probably want to be prepared to live with risk of setting (need a good jeweler as its a bit included and you need them to take care of the point/tip which needs to be protected probably using a v-shaped prong). As above alll paraibas can chip, and are not at all indestructable. I would have used the 40-50 k I saved to buy a 4-5 ct sapphire :lol:.
 
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rubberducky

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Has someone mentioned you cant wear this as an everyday ring? You can wear it out to dinner/lunch/breakfast but definitely not all the time.

Why's that? Is it because it's more prone to scratching than other types of stones?
 

qubitasaurus

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Why's that? Is it because it's more prone to scratching than other types of stones?

Not just this. The hardness (mohs scale) will tell you it is more prone/easier to scratch. By the way I am pretty sure this scale is logarithmic, so decreasing by one unit is more like getting 10 times weaker (I forget the base though).

Unfortunately certain material is also prone to chipping and cracking. This is different from hardness. It is a property of crystaline structures which have clevage planes, it is also exhibited by material which is typically included and thus has internal irregularities/defects which can grow over time due to knocking it against things, material which is highly treated to fill internal fishers (but not heal them), and also tends to get worse in cuts where the polyhedron has a lot of extremal points -- like the tip of a pear.

From memory, tourmaline is a material which is naturally inately prone to chips, as well as not that hard. It is regularly included causing it to have internal fishers which are weak spots.

The stone you are looking at is very large and sits very high off your finger making it more easy for you to bang on things. Its setting almost does not protect it at all. It is a beautiful ring -- very flashy, and intended to be worn out in the evenings. This is not an everyday(/all-day long) wear ring.

By the way I would have been sorely tempted by this ring, if I had the spare cash. Its not a bad buy. But you should know what you are buying.
 
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rubberducky

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From memory, tourmaline is a material which is naturally inately prone to chips, as well as not that hard. It is regularly included causing it to have internal fishers which are weak spots.

The stone you are looking at is very large and sits very high off your finger making it more easy for you to bang on things. Its setting almost does not protect it at all. It is a beautiful ring -- very flashy, and intended to be worn out in the evenings. This is not an everyday(/all-day long) wear ring.

By the way I would have been sorely tempted by this ring, if I had the spare cash. Its not a bad buy. But you should know what you are buying.

Hmm, I see what you mean. For what it's worth, I did a quick search and it seems like tourmaline doesn't have any natural planes of cleavage, and this particular stone isn't very included. However, it is a 7.5 in hardness, which is definitely on the softer side.

Do you have any thoughts on a less flashy setting? I'm not a fan of pavé, and there's a lot of it around the sides here. The seller has to reset it anyways (I'm allergic to gold), so I'm interested alternative setting ideas =)2
 

LilAlex

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It's big and shallow. I had to screenshot it to blow it up and I see a lot of finger through the middle 50% of the face-up area. That spread gives you a lot of real estate for the carat-weight.

Does not look heavily included and that's a plus. The color in the photo looks near-ideal. Note that the color of everything in almost every vendor photo looks near-ideal now. But if you saw it in person or (better yet) it's your photo, you know how accurate that photo is.

If that is your lovely hand, I do not see a ton of room for embellishment -- even nice diamond sides will wrap around too much. Too big for a halo but would be nice to get some impact protection. These factors may have gone into the design -- might be heavy-looking with steeply tapering shoulders, etc. I think the current ring really shows off the stone.
 

qubitasaurus

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Hmm, I see what you mean. For what it's worth, I did a quick search and it seems like tourmaline doesn't have any natural planes of cleavage, and this particular stone isn't very included. However, it is a 7.5 in hardness, which is definitely on the softer side.

Do you have any thoughts on a less flashy setting? I'm not a fan of pavé, and there's a lot of it around the sides here. The seller has to reset it anyways (I'm allergic to gold), so I'm interested alternative setting ideas =)2

Unfortunately my memory of this one is that it is a bit of a chippy material even though it doesn't have cleavage planes. It would probably be a good idea to read the new to colored stones thread at the top of this forum, I don't think it talks much about this (its been years since Ive read it so I don't remember exactly) but it gives some of the concerns you should be aware of. Yes it is good that this specific peace does not have any additional structural issues from bad inclusions. Most do.

I would consider haloing it in a more elaborate halo, maybe you can look through Ivy New York's high jewelery for some ideas of not straight up and down halos. Tilt the halo so its not protruding straight out, and put some small coloured stones in it. Alternatively open Raymond Yard's Instagram up, or something like Mc2jewels - mcclevland and mctagart. It is too big for big side stones, and it can't be bezeled or else later you will not be able to take it out once facet abrasion becomes a problem. You'll need to build the gold/metal up arround it a little, or alternatively set with a less bulky halo on a tilt angle. Or you can leave it in a very unprotected setting and just accept that really this is a luxury ring, and youre not going to wear it places where you're going to do any chores or physical activities.
 
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chrono

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Tourmaline can be chippy so it is prone to girdle and facet junction getting chipped / abrasion wear. Not saying it cannot be a ring stone, just that it is not an everyday ring stone.
 

rubberducky

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Thank you everyone for your insights!

It's big and shallow. I had to screenshot it to blow it up and I see a lot of finger through the middle 50% of the face-up area. That spread gives you a lot of real estate for the carat-weight.

Is the see-throughness an issue that impacts the value? It was something I noticed in-person and was a bit concerned about (and yes, that's my hand, and the color is fairly accurate, maybe a little more sky-blue in real life).

I would consider haloing it in a more elaborate halo, maybe you can look through Ivy New York's high jewelery for some ideas of not straight up and down halos. Tilt the halo so its not protruding straight out, and put some small coloured stones in it.

The current settling is this swirly thing where the band goes around the too and bottom of the stone and covers the whole height. It leaves the sides pretty exposed and lets light pass through.

All of the metal is covered in pavé (just like the band in the photo), and I'm not really a halo/pavé/bling kind of girl. I'd like to go with just metal if possible, but I wonder if that would look too heavy. I also assume the current metal structure is designed to optimally show the stone, and I'm also worried that changing it top much would make it look worse somehow, but I am pretty hung up on all that pavé.

Sorry I didn't think to take a picture from the side, would be useful now :(
 

chrono

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rubberducky

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The see-though part is called a window.

Example pics and explanation here:
https://www.johndyergems.com/good-gemstone-cutting.html

Found a better explanation here:

Yep, understood that it's a window and generally undesirable :). However, I've heard (perhaps erroneously) that for paraibas, the transparency is a side effect of not having many inclusions, so it's a trade-off between two evils. Does this sound right? And if so, how bad is a window here?
 
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