Seeking Advice

[SecondTime]

Hi, I've been trying to educate myself by reading as much as I can on Pricescope. I have come to a point in my life where Im ready again to propose. Can anyone give me any insight to this diamond? Its well within my budget and hope it's a good diamond. Many Thanks.

ROUND BRILLIANT
Measurements
7.59 - 7.62 x 4.57 mm
Carat Weight
1.61 carat
Color Grade
G
Clarity Grade
VS1
Cut Grade
Excellent
PROPORTIONS
Depth
60.1 %
Table
60 %
Crown Angle
33.0°
Crown Height
13.0%
Pavilion Angle
41.2°
Pavilion Depth
43.5%
Star Length
50%
Lower Half
80%
Girdle
Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet
None


FINISH
Polish
Excellent
Symmetry
Excellent
FLUORESCENCE
Fluorescence
None
CLARITY CHARACTERISTICS
Clarity Characteristics
Crystal, Cloud, Needle
Key To Symbols

Crystal

Cloud

Needle


COMMENTS
Additional clouds, pinpoints and surface graining are not shown.

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[beardog]

It falls out of range on the HCA tool, which most would say that should be an automatic reject. Also this is a60-60 cut diamond as you can see by the table & depth. It's a preference thing but most recommendations you'll see here are for a
54-57 table/60-62 depth/34-35 crown & a pavilion around 40.8.
This isn't to say the diamond wouldn't be beautiful... Just not to the exacting standards of this community cut wise.
If you post your budget you'll get some nice recommendations

 

[SecondTime]

It falls out of range on the HCA tool, which most would say that should be an automatic reject. Also this is a60-60 cut diamond as you can see by the table & depth. It's a preference thing but most recommendations you'll see here are for a
54-57 table/60-62 depth/34-35 crown & a pavilion around 40.8.
This isn't to say the diamond wouldn't be beautiful... Just not to the exacting standards of this community cut wise.
If you post your budget you'll get some nice recommendations

Hi, thanks for the response. My budget for the diamond alone is $15,000. Thanks so much.

 

[beardog]

No problem you'll be able to get something beautiful for sure. Very healthy budget. I'll post a few options with varying sizes/color/clarity, but I'm sure others will jump in with other options too. Remember also that it's the holiday season so inventory might be a little tight now but at least this way we'll get an idea of exactly what u want before the Valentine's rush

 

[lovedogs]

Has your gf seen stones in person and prefers G color? If you're considering a yellow gold setting and could go down to an I there are lots of options at HPD, including this one. Crafted by infinity are "super ideal", and amazing performers IRL.


https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7845#gallery-5

If G is necessary, this looks great (but is a bit smaller).

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10266


Here's an eye clean G at WF in budget.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4054985.htm

There are larger stones, but they are either lower color or not eye clean.

 

[sledge]

This particular stone is known as a 60/60 stone meaning the depth & table are both equal, or near to, 60%. Some people do prefer and seek out 60/60 stones; however, it's a specific look that not everyone loves or appreciates. Most diamonds listed here will be traditional ideal cut (TIC) that is based on Tolkowsky theory, which lead us to highly sought after ideal parameters:

• 54-57 table
• 60-62.4 depth (prefer < 62)
• 34-35 crown (maybe 35.5 if paired with 40.6 pavilion)
• 40.6-40.9 pavilion (maybe 41 if paired with 34 crown)
• 75-80 LGF (many prefer 75 for fatter arrows & larger flashes of light return)
• Crown & pavilion angles must be complimentary (high crown paired with shallow pavilion or vice versa)

As you can see, the stone in question falls outside these standard parameters; however, when checking the AGS proportions charts, the 33/41 combo actually works quite nicely in a 60/60 style stone. As with all stones, the key is the cut quality itself.



What gives me a little concern is the still picture you posted. I am not sure if it was taken off axis or there is a true problem but first thing that immediately jumped out is the table (circled in red) is off center from the horizontal & vertical axes (approximated in blue lines).



If you aren't aware, a 60/60 stone will throw more white light and give you a slightly larger spread. This comes at the expense of some fire. Most people seek out the Tolk style diamond as they yield more fire. Neither is better than the other, but rather just a preference and you having the understanding that what you are buying is what you truly like.

 

[Stephan]

Here is the stone
https://www.bluenile.com/be/diamond-details/LD11200554
Not that bad, but it could be much better.

 

[sledge]

WF PS 1.70ct G SI1 @ $13,556 wire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3905786.htm

60 table, 60.6 depth, 33.5 crown, 41 pavilion & 75 LGF

I found this stone particular interesting because WF normally doesn't have 60/60 stones but this is one of them. It's a premium select (PS) because it's GIA certified and the table, crown & pavilion sizes all fall outside the A Cut Above (ACA) specifications.

https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/

The stone itself is very well cut, but I don't think it's eye clean. In fact the WF page says "inquire" under the eye clean part. If you get interested, you definitely need to talk with them about this. This fact aside, I thought it'd be interesting for you to see how things are slightly different for a 60/60 stone vs other Tolk style ideal cut stones.


WF ACA 1.657ct G SI1 @ $14,959 wire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4013665.htm

Proportions are amazing....55.8 table, 61.6 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 76 LGF

Total sparkle bomb with all the right proportions for an ideal cut. My biggest concern here is the clarity. The WF page says it's eye clean, but the video and cert looks rough to me. I'd definitely have them pull the stone and examine it to confirm it's truly eye clean. If so, great size and proportions for the dollar.


WF ACA 1.591ct G SI1 @ $14,298 wire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4054985.htm

56.2 table, 61.8 depth, 34.8 crown, 40.6 pavilion & 76 LGF

Another sparkle bomb with amazing proportions. The video and clarity plot both look better on this one. The WF page also indicates it's eye clean. Again, have them pull to confirm. But this appears to be a winner and great bang for the buck.


WF ACA 1.48ct F VS2 @ $15,254 wire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4066130.htm

55.3 table, 61.7 depth, 34.6 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 77 LGF

That small 55 table makes my knees go a little weak. If you aren't aware, small tables mean larger upper girdle facets which is where rainbow light (fire/sparkle) is refracted. So small tables look more fiery than stones with larger tables. Combine that with the 34.6/40.8 combo and this stone is a show stopper! Oh wait, F color and VS2 clarity to boot. And it's a very clean VS2 with the inclusions on side of the stone instead of on the table.

If you aren't driven by size only, this is my favorite of the group.

 

[Lula]

Here is the stone
https://www.bluenile.com/be/diamond-details/LD11200554
Not that bad, but it could be much better.

It's a nice 60/60 diamond. The area Sledge pointed out in his post above is the table reflection. Diamonds with large tables have a characteristic "empty looking" area in the center. Nothing wrong with a 60/60 cut, but they do have a different look to them. The pros are that, if well cut, they are bright, brilliant diamonds that look larger than their carat weight. The cons are that they may produce more white light than colored fire. Edit: It's hiding some weight in the girdle, and the symmetry is a bit off.

Do you need to stick with Blue Nile?

 

[Stephan]

WF ACA 1.48ct F VS2 @ $15,254 wire

Great one !

 

[SecondTime]

Thanks so much for the recommendations. Im overwhelmed by the input. I know she wants a G and a VS1. Is SI1 ok? Dont know if that's the right wording. I can bump up my budget to $18,000 if this helps with the searches.

 

[beardog]

Great one !

Right under 1.5 too

 

[SecondTime]

It's a nice 60/60 diamond. The area Sledge pointed out in his post above is the table reflection. Diamonds with large tables have a characteristic "empty looking" area in the center. Nothing wrong with a 60/60 cut, but they do have a different look to them. The pros are that, if well cut, they are bright, brilliant diamonds that look larger than their carat weight. The cons are that they may produce more white light than colored fire. Edit: It's hiding some weight in the girdle, and the symmetry is a bit off.

Do you need to stick with Blue Nile?

No, Im in fact looking to purchase from a company that won't charge sales tax in New York. Trying to save $ that way.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Great one !

Yup, Looks good to me!

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks so much for the recommendations. Im overwhelmed by the input. I know she wants a G and a VS1. Is SI1 ok? Dont know if that's the right wording. I can bump up my budget to $18,000 if this helps with the searches.

SI1 is completely fine if it's eye clean. Did she specify why she wants VS1? VS2 is eye clean for 99% of people, and SI1s are great when eye clean bc you can get more stone for the $.

 

[SecondTime]

I can do VS2

you guys think this one is decent? https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R173-464983276?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

 

[lovedogs]

I can do VS2

you guys think this one is decent? https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R173-464983276?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

It's decent but I think you can do better. Stones suggested above from WF or HPD are what we consider "super ideal" and it's like pressing an easy button. You don't need to check angles on the HCA calculator on get an ASET/IS images. It overall makes things much easier.

Edit. If you like this one, I'd ask enchanted for an ASET/IS and check it using the HCA calculator (under tools). I'd check it but I'm on mobile.

 

[beardog]

Like lovedogs said, the easy button is a thing. Look at the images of that F posted above & you'll know all you need to about that diamond. A perfect true aset/hearts image/& ideal scope right on the page for you to see. Plus you'll see an insane amount of brilliance In the video. & it's in the colorless range.
I get it if you're hesitant to pay more to drop in size but it is only a .3mm diameter drop.
But let us know if it's too small & we'll keep looking.
The one u posted might be nice but too hard to say on a stone outside of the recommended parameters with no images

 

[Lula]

I can do VS2

you guys think this one is decent? https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R173-464983276?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

The girdle is thick and the stone is deep (62.5). That means that you're paying for weight that you can't see. In other words, because of the depth and the thick girdle, the stone's face up circumference is smaller than it should be.

For comparison's sake, this 1.73 carat is 7.73 - 7.75 mm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10567
The 1.73 carat you've linked is 7.61. - 7.65 mm.

 

[Par]

Like lovedogs said, the easy button is a thing. Look at the images of that F posted above & you'll know all you need to about that diamond. A perfect true aset/hearts image/& ideal scope right on the page for you to see. Plus you'll see an insane amount of brilliance In the video. & it's in the colorless range.
I get it if you're hesitant to pay more to drop in size but it is only a .3mm diameter drop.
But let us know if it's too small & we'll keep looking.
The one u posted might be nice but too hard to say on a stone outside of the recommended parameters with no images

I wouldn’t mind if it was a tad bigger. The 1.48 from wf is stunning. So I should look for hearts and arrow cuts??

What about this one?
https://parcelandstone.com/diamond/Round/1.71-carat-G-color-VS1-clarity-stockNo-100730525442/

 

[sledge]

Thanks so much for the recommendations. Im overwhelmed by the input. I know she wants a G and a VS1. Is SI1 ok? Dont know if that's the right wording. I can bump up my budget to $18,000 if this helps with the searches.

No problem for the recommendations. Last thing we want to do is overwhelm you with information, but as you can tell, there are many good selections out there for your price range.

I personally think VS1 is nice, but overkill. Reasoning is simple. Clarity is graded using 10x magnification. Images and videos shown online are generally 10x or higher magnification. The human eye sees at no magnification unless you have contacts/glasses. Some people do have higher than normal vision but those people are outliers truthfully and not the norm.

Here is the way I see clarity, and that I think most would agree:

• SI2 = Most stones will not be eye clean; however, a few rare unicorns exist. I'd personally never buy them from virtual inventory suppliers like BN, JA, etc. I'd want a super ideal vendor like WF, HPD/CBI, etc to vet the stones and ensure they are eye clean and does not impede light performance.
• SI1 = Some good eye clean stones exist here. Some bad ones exist too. For this reason, if I were buying from virtual inventory dealers I'd prefer to bump to VS2 to be safe. If buying from a super ideal vendor where they own & vet the stones I'd be okay with dropping to SI1 as they can pull the stones and verify they are indeed eye clean. A good SI1 stone like I'm talking about is a great bang for the buck and works for a large majority of people.
• VS2 = This is actually my own preferred clarity (unless I find that really rare SI1 that satisfies my own desires for eye clean & mind clean). While it's possible that some VS2's may not be eye clean, about 99% of them will be acceptable.
• VS1+ = If you get the additional clarity for not much more money I'm for it. But honestly, it's just for bragging rights. I'd personally rather put the money into a color or size bump, which I think more people will notice since we are talking 10x magnification after all.
• Eye Clean = This is a subjective term, meaning there is no industry standard definition. Most the super ideal vendors use a generic definition of 10" away looking at the top of the stone only with 20/20 vision in good lighting. For those that may have above normal average vision, or is more picky, you can define your own definition. For example, when I was shopping I indicated 6" away from top & sides with 20/20 vision and good lighting. Either way, when comparing stones it's important to clarify your definition of eye clean and ensure each vendor utilizes that definition to confirm if the stone is indeed eye clean or not.

Color is more subjective. And it seems that most women see minor differences in color more easily than men. There is no right or wrong answer, but rather about her actually defining what is her limits.

My fear is that she may have read an article that claimed G VS1+ is the way to go. Or she has a friend or family member with a particular stone with that color & clarity and therefore she has made up her mind that is what makes a beautiful stone. Obviously color can have an affect, but VS1 clarity is useless to her unless she has eagle eyes or it's for bragging rights. And honestly, a killer cut like the super ideals from WF or CBI/HPD will blind people with the sparkle.

I can do VS2

you guys think this one is decent? https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R173-464983276?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

The steep 35.5 crown does compliment the shallow 40.6 crown. This combo has been proven to work as long as the stone is precisely cut. However, the concern here is that there are 8 individual measurements for the crown & pavilion angles. With GIA they take those 8 measurements and then average them and round the crown to the nearest 0.5 degree and the pavilion to the nearest 0.2 degree.

Because of the rounding/averaging, you may end up with crown angles > 35.5. Also, you may end up with pavilion angles < 40.6. And this is where things start to get whacky. Add to the fact you have a slightly thick girdle and pushing the depth at 62.5 only adds concern. Consequently, having an ASET or idealscope becomes necessary to ensure there aren't dead spots, or leakage, somewhere in the stone.

And again, the problem with buying via virtual inventory is that most the stones aren't as precision cut as super ideals and normally lack the advanced images for you to make an educated decision. Therefore, sometimes you have to take a risk to buy the stone without all the data available to know for sure and then play the return & refund game if you aren't happy.

IMO, for the money you want to spend you have better options with stellar trade-in programs and all the data you need to ensure the cut is top notch without taking the risk.

 

[sledge]

I wouldn’t mind if it was a tad bigger. The 1.48 from wf is stunning. So I should look for hearts and arrow cuts??

What about this one?
https://parcelandstone.com/diamond/Round/1.71-carat-G-color-VS1-clarity-stockNo-100730525442/

57 table, 62 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 80 LGF

Proportions are quiet lovely. Much better than the other stone you presented IMO. Even with GIA rounding & averaging, you are likely to find yourself still in ideal territory with this stone. But also notice how the price went up?

As far as H&A cut stone that is up to you. I and many here believe cut is the most important quality. When you get ideal parameters combined with precision H&A cutting then the best cut just naturally falls into place. Not only that but most the super ideal vendors offering true H&A stones offer lifetime upgrade programs (WF and HPD/CBI is very simple -- spend $1 more and get full credit of the original stone). Also, you get all light performance (ASET & idealscope) and symmetry (H&A) images to confirm the stones are stellar.

Here are some alternates for you since you seem to want G VS2+ now.

WF ACA 1.635ct G VS2 @ $16,541 wire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4042799.htm

7.54 x 7.57 x 4.67 mm
55.9 table, 61.8 depth, 34.7 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 78 LGF


WF ACA 1.598ct G VS2 @ $16,805 wire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4049782.htm

7.50 x 7.52 x 4.62 mm
56.6 depth, 61.5 depth, 34.8 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 76 LGF


WF ACA 1.596ct G VS1 @ $16,202 wire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4065503.htm

7.46 x 7.50 x 4.61 mm
57 table, 61.6 depth, 34.4 crown, 40.7 pavilion & 77 LGF

I still really like that 1.48ct F VS2 I linked earlier, but if you need a little more size bump this G VS1 hits your initial desires and is a total sparkle bomb. Actually all 3 of these are really gorgeous, but to my eyes this one has the best video, etc.

Plus this 1.596ct stone is actually priced cheaper @ $10,152 per carat vs $10,516 per carat for the 1.598ct stone and you get VS1 clarity instead of VS2 which seems odd to me but works in your favor.