Ringworm

[missy]

i think your copping better than i would
id be curled up in a ball crying, Gary would be yelling, Borris would be running around the house like there was an earthquake and Tibby would have reverted to his true ferral self days ago
you'll get through this
he's a cat kiss from Tibby
that's some stinky cat food on his bottom lip
he's saving it for latter

Tibby is a love. Tommy does that too. Saves food on his bottom lip for later lol. If only we had just one cat dealing with this it would be uber manageable. Four cats that we cannot keep isolated is a huge issue. I want to be curled up in the fetal position and cry. There's no time and I don't have enough energy to do that. But cry I do multiple times a day. And my big concern (sorry R if you are reading) is that it will get much worse before we see any improvement. Each cat is getting worse and each day is getting harder and we are not even a week into treatment. This is but day 4 of a 42 day treatment cycle. And even that has me questioning as there are different schedules of how to administer the Itrafungol and I am not sure I trust this vet office. They want us to do pulse dosing of the Itrafungol but I have read things saying it is best to do a full month first every single day and then pulse dose.

@ecf8503 any suggestions re the Itrafungol dosing? Should we do one full month on then pulse dosing every other week or just do one week on one week off to begin? I want to be aggressive as the cats are getting worse and this appears to be a virulent form. They will not let us bathe them and the vet's office still doesn't have the lime sulfur dip to dip them. Only Ollie got it and only once. I am stressing out as they need those dips to start controlling the spread of the fungus. It's spreading on all the cats. Thanks.

 

[missy]

One more question @ecf8503 you wrote and I also read that this should be self limiting. I read that generally healthy cats can fight this on their own within 70-100 days. But Fred isn't healthy and since all our cats got it I am wondering if they have underlying immune issues. Do you think if we just administer the Itrafungol that will help them through it? The topicals are proving difficult also because Bobby has widespread fungal infection and he is a monster. He won't let us apply. We hold in in a towel to give him the orals and he spits it back out despite us going slowly. He needs 3.5 ccs since he weighs 16 lbs. We already went through an entire bottle in 4 days for the 4 cats. This is getting crazy. Anyway if we can somehow persevere and continue administering the orals would that be enough do you think? I am worried the vet's office is going to try getting out of the lime dips for the 3 adult cats since they are difficult cats. And as I wrote above no way can Greg and I do the dips nor shampoo them with the miconazole shampoo I bought. I want to but believe me when I say they act feral when we try. Thanks and sorry to be a bother.

 

[bludiva]

I have been doing everything without gloves or real protection. With 4 infected cats in our house everything is more challenging. Can you link the disposable gloves you used? If I can find disposable gloves that are hypoallergenic and easy to handle the cats with I would love to get them. Thanks Bludiva. Appreciate your input.

I don't remember the brand but they were the typical nitrile gloves. I think anyvdisposable medical supply gloves would do. We would also put on an old sweatshirt the shelter provided over our regular clothes so you could pick up and cuddle the kittens without taking the spores home. Hope this helps!

 

[ecf8503]

Hi Missy - I'm so sorry to hear about all of this! Having all the cats, and humans, affected is so difficult, for everyone involved.

I have a lot of info from vet sites I can share with you, but are probably too long to post here. You can reach me via email through Loupe Troop - https://loupetroop.com/account/listings/29821

 

[distracts]

You can do lime sulfur dips yourself. Where I am there are tons you can get with Amazon prime one-day. Or you could order and bring it to the vet.

To do the dips with a wild cat - you are already exposed to the fungus so get a big Rubbermaid type tub of the lime sulfur dip. Put it in the shower. Either wear discardable clothes or, depending how scratchy your cats get, nothing or a swimsuit (if they scratch, id wear sweatpants and a sweatshirt and just not worry about them getting wet - it would be uncomfortable but less so than scratches!). Wear big rubber gloves that the cat will have trouble biting through (dishwashing or gardening gloves, as high up the arm as you can get). If your shower has a glass door, that’s the one you want to use so the cat can’t escape. Take the cat into the bathroom and shut the door. Pick up the cat, dunk them in the lime sulfur, let them run away and cower in the corner for a bit. Dunk a washcloth in it and approach to try to get their face. You may have to let the cat dry entirely in the bathroom if you don’t have another area, so you may only be able to do 1-2 cats per day. It’ll be a bit stressful for everyone but ultimately totally manageable.

 

[Scandinavian]

@missy, I feel so strongly that the vet clinic should help you with this. If they don’t, perhaps you should find another clinic who will? Because with orals not going down, topicals not going on and sulfer baths not happening, I think you might be in for a long ride... I guess it would be super expensive, but here there are animal hospitals where you can hospitalise your furry friends. And then if they don’t eat they will give them IVs, and also you would not have to be the bad guy every day. I just feel like the world is asking a little much of you right now, and that you deserve some help. Hugs!!

 

[missy]

Hi Missy - I'm so sorry to hear about all of this! Having all the cats, and humans, affected is so difficult, for everyone involved.

I have a lot of info from vet sites I can share with you, but are probably too long to post here. You can reach me via email through Loupe Troop - https://loupetroop.com/account/listings/29821

Thanks @ecf8503, I appreciate any extra info. Your loupe troop link isn't working. If it's easier here's mine. Thanks again.
https://loupetroop.com/listings/other/for-pricescopers-heres-my-contact-info

 

[missy]

@missy, I feel so strongly that the vet clinic should help you with this. If they don’t, perhaps you should find another clinic who will? Because with orals not going down, topicals not going on and sulfer baths not happening, I think you might be in for a long ride... I guess it would be super expensive, but here there are animal hospitals where you can hospitalise your furry friends. And then if they don’t eat they will give them IVs, and also you would not have to be the bad guy every day. I just feel like the world is asking a little much of you right now, and that you deserve some help. Hugs!!

If an option like that existed I would be interested as this is proving to be very physically hard on Greg and me. Greg is almost 62 and I am no youngster myself lol and this routine is punishing. If one existed I think I would pay anything. But for the cats emotional well being this is probably the best way so maybe it is for the best there is no hospital here who does ringworm boarding and treatment.

I called the vet's office as soon as they opened this AM and they got the lime dip in and said it was OK to bring all 4 cats tomorrow. Whew. Now just praying the cats behave because the vets already asked me if the cats needed to be sedated and I said I hope not. It would suck if they had to sedate them.

Thank you Scandi and (((hugs))) back. Keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers. Life can be very challenging at times.

 

[missy]

You can do lime sulfur dips yourself. Where I am there are tons you can get with Amazon prime one-day. Or you could order and bring it to the vet.

To do the dips with a wild cat - you are already exposed to the fungus so get a big Rubbermaid type tub of the lime sulfur dip. Put it in the shower. Either wear discardable clothes or, depending how scratchy your cats get, nothing or a swimsuit (if they scratch, id wear sweatpants and a sweatshirt and just not worry about them getting wet - it would be uncomfortable but less so than scratches!). Wear big rubber gloves that the cat will have trouble biting through (dishwashing or gardening gloves, as high up the arm as you can get). If your shower has a glass door, that’s the one you want to use so the cat can’t escape. Take the cat into the bathroom and shut the door. Pick up the cat, dunk them in the lime sulfur, let them run away and cower in the corner for a bit. Dunk a washcloth in it and approach to try to get their face. You may have to let the cat dry entirely in the bathroom if you don’t have another area, so you may only be able to do 1-2 cats per day. It’ll be a bit stressful for everyone but ultimately totally manageable.

Thanks Distracts. I will for sure keep that in mind as a last option for us. I actually have lime dip as I ordered it last week when we found out they had ringworm. But the vets office will not use any lime dip not from their manufacturer. Oy. And Greg and I realized it would be dangerous for us to try lime dipping our cats though if we have to I will follow your instructions. Tommy and Bobby can be ferocious and even Fred has moments if he's pissed watch out. Of all my cats over the past almost 30 years the current crew with the exception of Oliver (Patient 0) is the most difficult fur baby bunch I have ever had. I love them but they do not comply easily. I don't blame them. In their eyes we are trying to kill them.

We have an appt tomorrow at the vet for all 4 to be lime dipped. I called them this AM and they said it came in. Fingers crossed the tech can do it easily and that the cats all behave. Sometimes at the vets office they behave better than with us. Sometimes.

 

[Scandinavian]

@missy
This article mentions some drug that can be flavoured and put into the cats’ food. They mention ferals specifically. Hugs.

http://www.animalalliancenyc.org/wordpress/2013/12/medicating-feral-cats-kittens/

 

[missy]

@missy
This article mentions some drug that can be flavoured and put into the cats’ food. They mention ferals specifically. Hugs.

http://www.animalalliancenyc.org/wordpress/2013/12/medicating-feral-cats-kittens/

Haha yes we used the antibiotic shot Convenia for all of them when they were all recently ill with severe URI since we didn't want to attempt piling them. We are giving them the Itraconazole and that is the most effective against ringworm but will ask about the chicken flavor liquid because the one we have I don't think is...we already went through a whole bottle in 4 days and this is one expensive disease. As for not doing anything and getting the same result if we didn't have Fred and his immunocompromised system maybe we would be in a stronger position than we are now. And Tommy's hyperthyroidism which we are not yet treating puts him at greater risk. And for some mysterious reason Bobby has it the worst. Weird. But in any case with indoor cats (some whose immune systems aren't working well) who we are living with not doing anything isn't a good solution. I so wish it was.

Thanks for the article Scandi!

 

[mtsapphirelovingannie]

I am going to order these gloves. Any drawbacks I should be aware of with these? Thanks.

https://www.amazon.com/ProCure-Disposable-Nitrile-Gloves-Ambidextrous/dp/B07DRNMDMZ/ref=sr_1_8?crid=2PCX4FH84NUAV&keywords=hypoallergenic+disposable+gloves&qid=1564395369&s=gateway&sprefix=hypoallergenic+dispo,aps,128&sr=8-8&th=1

Hmm these are longer and thicker. Question is can we handle the cats with the thicker ones?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006C3OKJQ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?th=1

Missy,

I occasionally wear protective clothes and gloves for my job. I suggest the longer, thicker nitrile gloves. You won't notice much difference in dexterity and they may help with the scratching. Good luck!

 

[ecf8503]

Missy - sent you a few emails with lots of good info in them

 

[missy]

Missy - sent you a few emails with lots of good info in them

Thank you so much @ecf8503!!! I greatly appreciate it.

Oliver just now. He's a sweet rascal and in good spirits. Wish I could say the same for the other 3 because they are not doing well with the med torture and today is their first lime sulfur bath. Praying they tolerate it well and the tech can give them the lime sulfur bath.

 

[missy]

Missy,

I occasionally wear protective clothes and gloves for my job. I suggest the longer, thicker nitrile gloves. You won't notice much difference in dexterity and they may help with the scratching. Good luck!

Thanks. I ordered both and hoping I can wear them without a reaction. So far we are going bare and I know that is not smart. It's just Oliver and the other cats crave our touch and we are doing so little of that as it is...:/

 

[missy]

@ecf8503 may I please pick your brain some more? The vet told us to do 7 days on 7 days off for a 6 week Itrafungol regime. But now I am reading a 21 day cycle on might be better. Though the one week on and one week off protocol for 21 days of treatment has also shown to be effective. What are your thoughts? I realize there is no black and white regarding this but just trying to figure out how to maximize the greatest chance of treatment success as efficiently as possible.

The other article states "Itraconazole 10 mg/kg PO q 24 hrs for 28 days then for alternating weeks" which is very different than the other recommendation re Itraconazole dosing. Which advises 5mg/kg 7 days on and 7 days off for 6 weeks. And the other one states "One of the most commonly used treatment protocols is itraconazole 5 mg/kg one week on/week off for 6 weeks"

Which dose and frequency should we do (I know it is just a recommendation and not a hard best answer as one does not exist) with our 4 cats? Right now we are doing 5mg/kg but reading in the other journal article it should be 10mg/kg and that is very different.

Thank you!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

good luck at the vets Missy

7 days on 7 days off sounds like it would be less stress for humans and kittys

 

[Slickk]

Not exactly related to your problem but when I did the pulse treatment with antibiotics it was after a full dose daily regimen was complete. Then I started the gradual tapering/pulse method. So far so good two weeks into completed therapy. Thinking of you and sending hugs!

 

[ecf8503]

@ecf8503 may I please pick your brain some more? The vet told us to do 7 days on 7 days off for a 6 week Itrafungol regime. But now I am reading a 21 day cycle on might be better. Though the one week on and one week off protocol for 21 days of treatment has also shown to be effective. What are your thoughts? I realize there is no black and white regarding this but just trying to figure out how to maximize the greatest chance of treatment success as efficiently as possible.

The other article states "Itraconazole 10 mg/kg PO q 24 hrs for 28 days then for alternating weeks" which is very different than the other recommendation re Itraconazole dosing. Which advises 5mg/kg 7 days on and 7 days off for 6 weeks. And the other one states "One of the most commonly used treatment protocols is itraconazole 5 mg/kg one week on/week off for 6 weeks"

Which dose and frequency should we do (I know it is just a recommendation and not a hard best answer as one does not exist) with our 4 cats? Right now we are doing 5mg/kg but reading in the other journal article it should be 10mg/kg and that is very different.

Thank you!

Here is the Itraconazole info:

Dermatophytosis
5 mg/kg PO q 24 hr x 7 d; administer on alternating wk for 3 treatment cycles, treating cats during wk 1, 3, and 5 and untreated wk 2 and 4
5–10 mg/kg PO q 24 hr until mycologic cure
Alternative dosing protocols have been evaluated to minimize expense and because itraconazole persists in the skin
10 mg/kg PO q 24 hr for 28 d, then on alternating weeks until mycologic cure is an effective protocol
5 mg/kg PO q 24 hr for 7 d on alternating weeks over 5 wk for a total of 3 weekly treatment cycles, then fungal culture and repeat cycle until mycological cure
1.5–3 mg/kg PO q 24 hr for alternating 15 d cycles is not recommended due to its low cure rate

Cats
Itraconazole is generally better tolerated than ketoconazole
Dose-related GI effects (anorexia, vomiting) have been reported
One case of fatal hepatitis in a cat receiving itraconazole has been reported

Contraindications/Precautions
Avoid products compounded from bulk powder itraconazole due to poor absorption
Avoid in animals with a known hypersensitivity
Avoid in breeding and nursing animals because itrazonazole may have teratogenic effects
Use with caution and/or be prepared to adjust dosage in patients with impaired hepatic function
Use with caution in patients with decreased cardiac function. Negative inotropic effects have been reported

You are correct - there's no cut and dried, one recommendation fits all.

 

[missy]

For any of you who are interested and following the thread here is the lime sulfur dip update.

All 4 cats received the dip yesterday (Oliver's second and Fred and Tommy and Bobby's first dip). The techs were able to successfully dip all 4 but the adult 3 cats were not happy. And Fred's asthma is exacerbated since the dip yesterday. Both Fred and Tommy are eating very little. Tommy eating a bit more than Fred ( Fred is the 16 yo with asthma and severe arthritis) who finally this AM (after not eating at all yesterday with the exception of when I fed him at 4AM yesterday morning before the ordeal at the vet's office) ate a few pieces of hard food. He is having trouble smelling I think. I heated up sardines (his go to when he is being a picky eater) but he refused it.

I am concerned Fred won't be able to successfully fight the ringworm. He is old and has health issues and his immune system isn't working well. He is not tolerating the oral anti fungals and lime sulfur dips easily. We cannot get him free of ringworm if we don't continue treating but he might not survive treatments. If we don't clear him of ringworm the other cats probably won't be able to get clear either since they all got it and are all vulnerable to it.

Also Oliver's eye is a bit watery and squinty since the lime dip and stress can bring out the herpetic virus. So praying he doesn't get a corneal ulcer again. I thought that was hard to treat. 3 weeks of meds round the clock with the cone around his neck. Poor baby. I am so hoping he doesn't have a relapse of the ulcer especially while we are dealing with ringworm in all 4 cats. And us.

I am taking it one day at a time. One hour at a time. And when it seems too much even one hour at a time I am taking it minute by minute. There are times I do not see a way out of this or a happy ending. Pushing the negative thoughts away as best I can. Thanks for reading. It helps to get it out and share and I appreciate any thoughts/advice or just supportive comments. This has been a challenging summer to say the least.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Missy, I am truly sorry for your situation. You are already doing so much and I really think it's unfair. But your love for your furbabies keeps you going!you are a great mom and strong sending you dust and strength!!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

as an asthmatic i feel so bad for Fred and the lime sulphur

 

[yssie]

OMG.

Missy - I just found and read this full thread this morning. I’m so, so sorry you and Greg are dealing with this!! “No good deed goes unpunished”... you know that I’ve got five cats and two dogs, and I’m a bit like you in that if someone sneezes I come down with pneumonia - I cannot imagine how I’d handle this

Our fur babies are incredibly forgiving!! Even the wild ones. I don’t have experience with ringworm but I do know what you mean re. your cats thinking you’re trying to kill them... I know “don’t feel guilty” is easier said than done! But you’re mummy and daddy and you do know best. I hope Fred starts eating properly!! If he winds up needing an IV that’s something you can do at home (if he reaches the point of needing it he’ll be easier to manhandle).

You and Greg are incredible people. You don’t deserve this!
Ugh. Just. Thinking of you Missy. Is a laundry service an option? If there are any available out there...Even if it’s just every couple of days to give you two a break. Plastic tarps over furniture, remove curtains... I’m sure you’ve thought of all this already. My brain is still catching up.

 

[ecf8503]

**hugs**

 

[missy]

**hugs**

Thank you so much for all that helpful info and for the hugs. I need them desperately.

@ecf8503 I have another question please. I called the vet's office just a little while ago because Oliver's face is getting worse. Our vet is off today but Greg went in to the vet office just a while ago to drop off Oliver's stool sample because Oliver still had Coccidia after treatment so we treated again and hoping this one is clear) and he spoke to another vet there. This vet said there is nothing we can do anyway but treat as we are treating and just wait and hope it improves.

My question is this. Could it get worse while being treated before it gets better? The rescue woman who gave us Oliver told me since we are treating it should not be getting worse. We are on Day 6 of oral antifungals and day 10 of topical meds. Yet Oliver's spot on the face (which was not even there when he was first diagnosed last week) has grown overnight and is so much bigger. Should I be panicking? Is he resistant to treatment? Or could this be the normal course even though he is being treated that it can get worse before it improves.

Photo from today






Photo from yesterday. You can see it is just a pinprick of a spot compared to today. I am sorry I know the photos aren't great.



Thanks for your insight @ecf8503.

 

[missy]

OMG.

Missy - I just found and read this full thread this morning. I’m so, so sorry you and Greg are dealing with this!! “No good deed goes unpunished”... you know that I’ve got five cats and two dogs, and I’m a bit like you in that if someone sneezes I come down with pneumonia - I cannot imagine how I’d handle this

Our fur babies are incredibly forgiving!! Even the wild ones. I don’t have experience with ringworm but I do know what you mean re. your cats thinking you’re trying to kill them... I know “don’t feel guilty” is easier said than done! But you’re mummy and daddy and you do know best. I hope Fred starts eating properly!! If he winds up needing an IV that’s something you can do at home (if he reaches the point of needing it he’ll be easier to manhandle).

You and Greg are incredible people. You don’t deserve this!
Ugh. Just. Thinking of you Missy. Is a laundry service an option? If there are any available out there...Even if it’s just every couple of days to give you two a break. Plastic tarps over furniture, remove curtains... I’m sure you’ve thought of all this already. My brain is still catching up.

@yssie yes you get it. I am overwhelmed and alternating between crying and sobbing much of the day. I cannot believe all that is happening. Frankie dying and then we try saving a kitty and his eye and all our cats are pretty ill right now. Fred is refusing to eat. The others are upset and stressed. The whole household is stressed. I am so worried about the cats. We did give Fred IV fluids but he is still upstairs near the attic where it is boiling hot and I cannot coax him down or get him to eat. That is not his MO. He has generally a voracious appetite. And yup about someone sneezing and (you and) I come down with pneumonia. That is me spot on and I am worried the ringworm will overtake me and my body and hair. We removed all the curtains and did everything we could. As far as laundry I don't mind doing multiple loads per day. That way I control exactly how it is being done and when I get it back. I appreciate all your suggestions thank you.

And thank you @kipari and @Daisys and Diamonds. I appreciate all your kind support and well wishes. XO.

 

[JPie]

Missy, I've been following your story but just didn't know what to say. I haven't had any experiences with ringworm, but I've been stressed out over insect infestations and I completely understand that feeling of hopelessness, like you'll never be free of what's plaguing you.

I know you'll be strong for the kitties' sake and keep taking it one minute at a time. They are so smart at picking up on their humans' emotions and as others have said, they are so forgiving too. I'm keeping you in my thoughts and I hope you all kick ringworm butt. (Do they even have butts?)

 

[yssie]

It doesn’t seem like anyone should be getting worse but poor little Oliver certainly does look worse today

But look at those eyes!! If a gaze ever says “I adore you”... And you and Greg are the reason he’s got that gaze, and you’re the one he’s looking at!!

I completely understand wanting to do the cleaning and laundering yourself. I’m the same way - that way I know it’s done right. But if they’re getting worse - do you think perhaps the medication regimen isn’t working? Or do you think it’s more likely the cleaning isn’t offing the spores the way it should?

When my parents’ dog had mange one thing they did was replace all their furnace filters. Maybe something else to do? I’m assuming you’ve got the central air on in this appalling heat!

 

[missy]

It doesn’t seem like anyone should be getting worse but poor little Oliver certainly does look worse today

But look at those eyes!! If a gaze ever says “I adore you”... And you and Greg are the reason he’s got that gaze, and you’re the one he’s looking at!!

I completely understand wanting to do the cleaning and laundering yourself. I’m the same way - that way I know it’s done right. But if they’re getting worse - do you think perhaps the medication regimen isn’t working? Or do you think it’s more likely the cleaning isn’t offing the spores the way it should?

When my parents’ dog had mange one thing they did was replace all their furnace filters. Maybe something else to do? I’m assuming you’ve got the central air on in this appalling heat!

Thanks for brainstorming for us @yssie. We recently changed the air conditioning filters and we plan on changing them again soon. Greg doesn't feel like that is the issue.

Also from all my reading (and I can be wrong so if someone reading this knows differently please share) one doesn't easily contract or get worse from environmental spores though theoretically it is possible. Rather the reason to clean and clean and clean (and believe me we have been thoroughly cleaning daily as the cats with the exception of Oliver are not confined) is to remove infective material from the environment and minimize the potential for false positive fungal cultures. it is not (from my understanding though much misinformation is out there stating the opposite) to prevent infection of other animals or people, since transmission occurs primarily via direct contact with infected cats. Though one of the reasons I am cleaning like an OCD maniac is just in case.

Now we are at great risk as Greg and I are constantly touching the cats to treat and to pet and comfort. We always wash immediately afterwards but you can imagine how easy it is for some of us who are susceptible (me and somehow Greg as yes he does have ringworm) to contract ringworm. I am trying to wear gloves but it doesn't allow me the fine touch I need to apply to certain areas plus sometimes the cats need human touch without gloves. Greg is not wearing gloves generally but washes immediately after. We are not perfect but we are doing the best we can. Greg is not worried about his health (I worry enough for both of us lol) but I am concerned as I am super susceptible to skin issues.

By the way I certainly hope your AC is fixed by now and you are remaining cool and comfortable. It is quite warm out there though this AM was lovely with an east wind bringing cool ocean air.

 

[missy]

Missy, I've been following your story but just didn't know what to say. I haven't had any experiences with ringworm, but I've been stressed out over insect infestations and I completely understand that feeling of hopelessness, like you'll never be free of what's plaguing you.

I know you'll be strong for the kitties' sake and keep taking it one minute at a time. They are so smart at picking up on their humans' emotions and as others have said, they are so forgiving too. I'm keeping you in my thoughts and I hope you all kick ringworm butt. (Do they even have butts?)

Dear @JPie thank you so much. Yes that is exactly how I am feeling. I am trying to be strong for the kitties. It's so hard seeing them suffer. Especially Fred who still refuses to eat and is hanging out at the top stair right next to the attic and it has to be over 100 degrees in that spot. Poor sweet baby. I am praying he can recover from this and go on to have peaceful senior years. He deserves it and I am so scared this will be the end for him.