Ringworm

[JPie]

Dear @JPie thank you so much. Yes that is exactly how I am feeling. I am trying to be strong for the kitties. It's so hard seeing them suffer. Especially Fred who still refuses to eat and is hanging out at the top stair right next to the attic and it has to be over 100 degrees in that spot. Poor sweet baby. I am praying he can recover from this and go on to have peaceful senior years. He deserves it and I am so scared this will be the end for him.

Poor Fred. I'm rooting for all of you!

 

[AV_]

@missy You got me reading ringworms - just to see how long the six of you might expect to shaddow the Earth ,(

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

i never thought of the drapes
....please get better kitties

 

[ecf8503]

@missy - what dose are they currently on?

 

[distracts]

I found T got worse for a week and a half or so before he started getting better. I don't know if that was the normal course of things or not... he was on oral antifungals and topical but the improvement coincided with when I switched from the topical cream to the miconazole shampoo.

 

[missy]

@missy - what dose are they currently on?

Hi @ecf8503 they are all on 5mg/kg q 24 hours.

Fred had liquid diarrhea yesterday afternoon and did not eat all day but last night he had 2 small bites of food. We gave him SubQ fluids yesterday afternoon. This AM he refused to eat and I saw 2 small areas of bile spit up on the floor. Today is day 7 of week 1 of the Itrafungol so this morning decided to give him this one last dose but not sure that was the right decision. I know he needs food to absorb it but I didn't want to do 6 days and then not finish it with the last dose. Now we are beginning week 2 which is no Itrafungol and then after 7 days we are supposed to resume the Itrafungol for another 7 days for three full weeks of treatment cycles (21 days of Itrafugol) and then I guess reevaluate with cultures etc.

However Fred is not doing well. He is not breathing easily (asthma exacerbated) and his arthritis is quite severe as he is not taking his arthritis meds since he is not eating and I give it to him in his food. I cannot tell if he is suffering. He is sitting on the floor with his paws crossed. I know he is not happy but I don't think he is suffering. He is depressed, unhappy and out of sorts. If he starts suffering we will have a hard decision to make. None of the cats are happy with the exception of Patient Zero (Oliver) who is purring as I type despite just getting oral and topical meds.

We are also applying Miconazole lotion to the spots on all the cats. This is one unhappy and stressed household with the exception of Oliver.

 

[missy]

I found T got worse for a week and a half or so before he started getting better. I don't know if that was the normal course of things or not... he was on oral antifungals and topical but the improvement coincided with when I switched from the topical cream to the miconazole shampoo.

Thanks Distracts. Do you remember how long it took T to turn a corner? How many weeks was he on the oral Itrafungol?

We cannot shampoo the 3 adult cats. And now I am questioning if we can even continue lime dipping Fred due to the complications of a possible URI now possibly due to the lime dip. Remaining wet for hours while air drying as is the way to do it but his immune system is too weak to tolerate it. This nightmare continues and we might lose our sweet Fred.

 

[missy]

Fred. He looks miserable. No energy. You can see the fungus on his face. It is in a bad place.
Do we continue torturing him to what end? Are we going to be able to get him over ringworm or is his immune system just not working at all at this point and if he continues to refuse to eat then there is no chance. We can give him fluids but we cannot force feed him. His hair is still tinged yellow from the sulfur lime dip 2 days ago. My poor sweet baby.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Fred. He looks miserable. No energy. You can see the fungus on his face. It is in a bad place.
Do we continue torturing him to what end? Are we going to be able to get him over ringworm or is his immune system just not working at all at this point and if he continues to refuse to eat then there is no chance. We can give him fluids but we cannot force feed him. His hair is still tinged yellow from the sulfur lime dip 2 days ago. My poor sweet baby.

oh poor Fred
what about an apitite stimulant from the vet ?
what about fresh meat ?
for the last 6 months of my Tinky's life he ate steak and he really enjoyed it and im so glad we gave it to him

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Missy roast a chicken for dinner tonight
my Borris will do anything for chicken
or just pop.down to the supermarket deli snd buy a rotisserie chicken
the smell alone should hopefully get Fred thinking about food

 

[missy]

Fred vomited and had diarrhea again about an hour ago. He's in bad shape. Finally able to get my sister on the phone as she went to a landline. She's up in the mountains with no reception. Anyway she said supportive therapy Sub Q and make him comfortable and no more ringworm treatment for a few days at least. Treat right now what is happening and forget about ringworm. How are we going to get through this? All the cats have it and if Fred isn't treated he won't be able to fight it off himself. And then the other cats will continue being exposed. OK one day at a time. Praying Fred will eat something later. Greg is giving him Sub Q again now. Debbie said once a day Sub Q. I just want to do something more. I want to get them better.

Thanks @Daisys and Diamonds. Appreciate your suggestions.

 

[ecf8503]

Poor Fred! Oh Missy I'm sorry - such a headache - and heartache too.

Give Fred a day or 2 on fluids, and if he isn't turning a corner, then take him in for a proper evaluation. Make sure they draw blood and check his liver and kidneys.

 

[missy]

Thank you @ecf8503. I so appreciate your help.

 

[AV_]

All the cats have it and if Fred isn't treated he won't be able to fight it off himself.

@missy I am quite tempted to try to understand how ringworm dies off, but the information I am finding (from vet clinics) is not coherent - which means I'd have to hit more high brow sources & bootleg the good docs, which is not something I ever do (what I trust is my inability).

Funny that your 'Patient 0' is the one cheery item of the household... Oliver is irony incarnate!

 

[Slickk]

@missy You know how sorry I am about all you are going through
Are they grooming themselves (and ingesting dip) perhaps being adversely affected by the sulfur’s dip still on their fur?
Just a thought and I don’t know what effect that would have on their digestive health if any. Brainstorming is all....
So kind of you to help @ecf8503 What do you think?

 

[Scandinavian]

@missy
I have been trying to research a little. I can’t find that ringworm is airborne. But direct contact does not appear to be necessary. What I mean is that contact with floor/sofa/carpet/your pants etc appears to be enough. So perhaps Oliver is infecting himself/ making it spread through for example rubbing his head on his bed? I don’t think it stops being contagious before it is gone... I hope he is better tomorrow.

 

[ecf8503]

Lime sulfur dips are safe, as long as it is diluted appropriately before application and they don't get inadvertently covered with the concentrate.

 

[mtsapphirelovingannie]

Missy,

I’m so sorry for you all! I have no experience with ringworm. I can only offer a little advice from my experience - I do have experience with middle-aged cats not eating. I’ve had two cats that had health issues that resulted in them refusing food.

Although both cats were on special diets, my vet said we needed to suspend that endeavor when they were refusing to eat. I found some success with warming canned cat food (the cheap stuff with gravy) in the microwave as well as warmed water from canned tuna.

Your Fred’s issues are different than by beloved fellow’s but I did sometimes put canned food on his lips (frankly it ended up being a smear on lips and teeth). He normally was pretty annoyed with my interference but would develop an appetite after licking his lips.

Good luck! And sending hugs from afar.

 

[distracts]

Thanks Distracts. Do you remember how long it took T to turn a corner? How many weeks was he on the oral Itrafungol?

We cannot shampoo the 3 adult cats. And now I am questioning if we can even continue lime dipping Fred due to the complications of a possible URI now possibly due to the lime dip. Remaining wet for hours while air drying as is the way to do it but his immune system is too weak to tolerate it. This nightmare continues and we might lose our sweet Fred.

I thought he was on fluconazole but I could just be misremembering. He was on it for a month daily. After the first week or so he started getting better but it was probably until week 3 that the ringworm patches were gone and the next week that his fur started growing back in those places, then he was done with the treatment pretty soon after that. These little kitties have to be real troopers to put up with all this... T is prone to health problems so I get your worry about all your cats.

I hope Fred rallies. He looks so miserable... T looks like that whenever he gets sick and I know how it pulls at your heart to not be able to snap your fingers and fix it immediately and to know you might have to put them through worse to get them better.

 

[mrs jam]

I’m so sorry you’re having to endure this. We (two senior cats and 4 dogs) went through this about 6 or 7 years ago. Only our Great Dane had it, but our vet had us treat all of them with the lime dip. It was miserable, but we got through it.

The only thing that saved my sanity was our vet tech. We already had a relationship with him outside of our vet clinic since he pet sits for us whenever we go out of town. He came over to help my husband with the lime dips. I couldn’t get through it without sobbing, so I got to tap out. He was worth his weight in gold, let me tell you!

Make sure you’re protecting your skin. The dip dried my skin out horribly. My arms and hands got so itchy and scaly. I remember our babies all smelled like rotten eggs for quite some time, even after it was all over with.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

oh missy
you need a guardian angel to come and help like Mrs jam's vet tech
try bacon on Fred - boys love bacon

17 is the average age of a NZ cat and all the really old cats i know just ate jellymeat (the basic stuff in the cans from the supermarket)
ive never had a vet try to sell us the fancy cat biscuits (kibble)
ours eat the middle range supermarket wet and dry food and cooked chicken when we have chicken, raw meat if im making a casserole, tinned tuna for a treat, and if we have fish & chips on a Friday i get an extra piece and just take off the batter
Id be trying Fred with everything
Last time Borris went off her food sardines in spring water did the trick

 

[missy]

Lime sulfur dips are safe, as long as it is diluted appropriately before application and they don't get inadvertently covered with the concentrate.

Yes, thank you for your input @ecf8503. I hope that vet's office is doing it correctly. I have no reason to believe they aren't doing it properly though the vet keeps saying lime baths not dips. But then she corrects herself.

Fred's asthma was exacerbated for days after the lime dip but that probably was from the stress. He is easily stressed and I just do not know what our options are. If he cannot tolerate the Itrafungol (causing him vomiting and diarrhea) and he cannot tolerate the lime baths (due to the stress) he will not beat the ringworm. Topicals alone on Fred whose immune system is weak (due to age and meds and health conditions) won't cut it. The vet told me if we stop lime baths and Itrafungol we must keep Fred separated from all the other cats. We tried that at the beginning last week for 4 days and he was miserable and refused to eat then too. But for a different reason as he was depressed.

Anyway we cannot separate him again so I am going to hope and pray he gets better and eats so we can get him the scheduled lime bath Tuesday with the other cats. If not I don't know what to do...

Poor Fred. Still not eating this morning but Greg just gave him fluids and he was purring. I did manage to get him to eat 2 bites around 6PM last night though so that is something. But 2 bites for 48 hours is obviously not enough.

 

[missy]

Missy,

I’m so sorry for you all! I have no experience with ringworm. I can only offer a little advice from my experience - I do have experience with middle-aged cats not eating. I’ve had two cats that had health issues that resulted in them refusing food.

Although both cats were on special diets, my vet said we needed to suspend that endeavor when they were refusing to eat. I found some success with warming canned cat food (the cheap stuff with gravy) in the microwave as well as warmed water from canned tuna.

Your Fred’s issues are different than by beloved fellow’s but I did sometimes put canned food on his lips (frankly it ended up being a smear on lips and teeth). He normally was pretty annoyed with my interference but would develop an appetite after licking his lips.

Good luck! And sending hugs from afar.

Thank you for the hugs and the tips. I will try the food smearing on his lips. Fred is super stubborn and I appreciate all input.
We have had senior cats refusing to eat before and I pulled out all the tricks that I know.

 

[missy]

I thought he was on fluconazole but I could just be misremembering. He was on it for a month daily. After the first week or so he started getting better but it was probably until week 3 that the ringworm patches were gone and the next week that his fur started growing back in those places, then he was done with the treatment pretty soon after that. These little kitties have to be real troopers to put up with all this... T is prone to health problems so I get your worry about all your cats.

I hope Fred rallies. He looks so miserable... T looks like that whenever he gets sick and I know how it pulls at your heart to not be able to snap your fingers and fix it immediately and to know you might have to put them through worse to get them better.

Thank you distracts for the additional info. We are into week 2. Oliver is starting to become more difficult re med application. At first he was such a cooperative baby but now he is starting to fight us. Oy. And yes it is breaking our hearts seeing Fred's quick decline. We need a miracle please. Please don't let our Fred die.

 

[missy]

I’m so sorry you’re having to endure this. We (two senior cats and 4 dogs) went through this about 6 or 7 years ago. Only our Great Dane had it, but our vet had us treat all of them with the lime dip. It was miserable, but we got through it.

The only thing that saved my sanity was our vet tech. We already had a relationship with him outside of our vet clinic since he pet sits for us whenever we go out of town. He came over to help my husband with the lime dips. I couldn’t get through it without sobbing, so I got to tap out. He was worth his weight in gold, let me tell you!

Make sure you’re protecting your skin. The dip dried my skin out horribly. My arms and hands got so itchy and scaly. I remember our babies all smelled like rotten eggs for quite some time, even after it was all over with.

How wonderful you had a vet tech helping you. I wish we could do something like that. Instead we are bringing them to the vets office for the lime dip and they are there all day. Very stressful. But they need to have these treatments. We have to be aggressive as all the cats have it. And two of them are older. 12 and 16. And yes I am not getting through this without sobbing multiple times a day. I am glad only your one dog had it. From my understanding it is much easier when dogs get it as they don't release thousands of spores like cats do and it is less contagious to everyone else. Glad you all survived the ordeal and are doing well. Praying we get there too.

 

[missy]

oh missy
you need a guardian angel to come and help like Mrs jam's vet tech
try bacon on Fred - boys love bacon

17 is the average age of a NZ cat and all the really old cats i know just ate jellymeat (the basic stuff in the cans from the supermarket)
ive never had a vet try to sell us the fancy cat biscuits (kibble)
ours eat the middle range supermarket wet and dry food and cooked chicken when we have chicken, raw meat if im making a casserole, tinned tuna for a treat, and if we have fish & chips on a Friday i get an extra piece and just take off the batter
Id be trying Fred with everything
Last time Borris went off her food sardines in spring water did the trick

Thanks for the ideas. It's wonderful that 17 is the average age of a NZ kitty. I don't know what it is here but the oldest age we ever got one of our cats to reach was 16. Now it looks like that will be Fred's experience too

Will try bacon thank you. Sardines are not working for us right now. I am trying everything I can think of. Thank you Daisy. And yes we do need a guardian angel desperately. Praying our boys can recover from this horrible ringworm.

Oh and now Oliver's vet called yesterday as we brought in a stool sample again to see if he was finally clear of Coccidia and now he has roundworm. I don't understand why that did not show up last month when we first tested his stool but I guess it just wasn't in that sample. Yet another med. Hoping the adult cats didn't catch that too.

 

[missy]

@missy
I have been trying to research a little. I can’t find that ringworm is airborne. But direct contact does not appear to be necessary. What I mean is that contact with floor/sofa/carpet/your pants etc appears to be enough. So perhaps Oliver is infecting himself/ making it spread through for example rubbing his head on his bed? I don’t think it stops being contagious before it is gone... I hope he is better tomorrow.

Thanks Scandi with all you have on your plate I appreciate your help. Yes any contact is enough. Direct or indirect. And our cats are rubbing themselves on us and I cannot bear to turn them away. I am washing lots and taking lots of showers and hoping it is enough. As if the cats all getting this isn't bad enough now Greg and I are vulnerable. Oh well. My first concern is getting them well. We are disinfecting everything every day and hoping it is enough. Hope you are doing OK and remaining strong and healing vibes to your mom.

 

[missy]

@missy You know how sorry I am about all you are going through
Are they grooming themselves (and ingesting dip) perhaps being adversely affected by the sulfur’s dip still on their fur?
Just a thought and I don’t know what effect that would have on their digestive health if any. Brainstorming is all....
So kind of you to help @ecf8503 What do you think?

When they get dipped the are put into a cone afterwards so as not to ingest it. But yes then they groom themselves. It isn't harmful. Thank you for brainstorming for us sweetie. Hugs and hope you are feeling well and strong and healing nicely.

 

[missy]

@missy I am quite tempted to try to understand how ringworm dies off, but the information I am finding (from vet clinics) is not coherent - which means I'd have to hit more high brow sources & bootleg the good docs, which is not something I ever do (what I trust is my inability).

Funny that your 'Patient 0' is the one cheery item of the household... Oliver is irony incarnate!

Yes funny indeed. Though I am hoping he remains cheerful as this isolation business is hard for a kitty. We are spending time with him and keeping him company in our bedroom and hoping that is sufficient. Little Patient Zero is becoming more difficult to give meds to as he is growing...

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I'm so sorry you are going through all of this Missy, I can't imagine the stress of it all.

I wanted to comment on the roundworm with Oliver, when we adopted Dexter last year he too had roundworm and the vet told us a flea treatment (like the one you apply to the back of the neck) would eliminate them. Well that proved to not be true and we have young kids so I had to get rid of them ASAP. I actually got a liquid wormer and gave it to him and that worked immediately. If you want I can try to find out which one it was. I remember going to Petco and not being able to find it there so I might have ordered it from Amazon. The other cats can also become infected if they were using the same box, drinking the same water or grooming each other so usually you treat all the cats at the same time but of course Fred is a concern as you don't want to overwhelm him. It is a liquid so easy to administer.