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Daisys and Diamonds

Brilliant_Rock
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so these kitties have a Brooklyn accent !
adorable !
i love all his pictures but the Christmas tree is just too cute
Borris would push the whole thing over !
things are going to get better missy and everyone will be allowed back in the clean washing again
when we take Tibby to the vet we will get him microchipped too, we would never have moved here if we knew my work situation was going to turn out like it did (i got promised a transfer and the week we brought the house the manager left and the new manager only employs casual staff) but if we hadn't moved her we wouldn't have Tibby and i now can't imangine him not in our family now, of course we would have money in the bank instead .....but who knows what would have become of Tibby
tonight i was outside asking Borris to come in and Borris wanted to play
Tibby comes walking up the street and up the drive right for Borris and lies down and rolls onto his back showing his tummy
Borris just goes and sits under the car and turns her back
anyway Gary brought some new singlets today - like all his new stuff he doesn't put anything away - we have a brand new weed eater (weed wacker) in the bedroom (im just tardy with clean washing :whistle:) 20190920_212123.jpg
and Borris thought she'd get comfy
the bag just fell of the chair - she's now doing the typical cat ' im embarrassed don't look at me nothing happened here ' thing
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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Has Fred been washing himself excessively since all the washes and treatments he's been getting? Has he pooped out small balls at the start when he was unblocked with fur in them? Ask your sister - it could be a wide range of GI issues but it could also be Fred licking off too much hair because of all the washing and treatments and the excess hair combined with dehydration causing fur ball blockages and that's why he can't poop.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Has Fred been washing himself excessively since all the washes and treatments he's been getting? Has he pooped out small balls at the start when he was unblocked with fur in them? Ask your sister - it could be a wide range of GI issues but it could also be Fred licking off too much hair because of all the washing and treatments and the excess hair combined with dehydration causing fur ball blockages and that's why he can't poop.
Thanks for brainstorming for us @arkieb1. Fred is grooming but as normal I think and not excessively. I called Debbie just now after reading your post and she said the Lime Sulfur dips plus topicals are safe and should not be causing the lethargy (or constipation) but the hair loss and ingestion could. What you write makes sense. There was no hair however in his vomit. He is drinking but maybe not as much as usual. So hard to tell with cats unless you can watch them every single second.

I don't know what to give him re his constipation. We are giving him 150 ccs fluid sub q every other day. I haven't given the Miralax since he vomited after eating it. My sister said for us to give him either Benefiber or Metamucil but isn't that similar to Miralax? I am debating ordering it and trying it with him.

She once again reiterated that in her opinion his blood and urine are normal despite the local vet saying we had to r/o pancreatitis/IBD/lymphoma. My sister said we can wait on the US. That his results were basically normal.

So we are left with why is he so lethargic and listless and very constipated? Is it related? And could it be due in part to the stress of cleaning every day and Greg applying his topicals every day plus the once weekly L-S dips and shampoos? We cannot not treat him for RW but is the stress of treatment causing the lethargy? Seems far fetched but who knows. Puzzling to say the least.

Thanks again for your input and please add anything you think of. We want to save Fred and are coming up empty with what is going on with him.
 
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Matata

Ideal_Rock
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We cannot not treat him for RW but is the stress of treatment causing the lethargy? Seems far fetched but who knows. Puzzling to say the least.

Thanks again for your input and please add anything you think of. We want to save Fred and are coming up empty with what is going on with him.
Have you talked to your sis about depression? There are a few meds (if I remember correctly, some are topical to be applied to the ears) that treat depression in cats.

If he's not getting enough fluids, he'll stay constipated. To entice him to drink more water on his own, try adding the liquid from canned tuna or another fishy source.

While you cannot not treat him for RW, perhaps isolating him and stopping treatment for awhile (or at least the dips) until he starts to eat/poop/pee normally might help at least until you determine if depression is the issue and treat for that. I know that is not where you want to go and it would be a last resort.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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Do you have a cat water fountain or something with running water as a drinking place or dish, no idea why but some cats are drawn to those things, as something that might encourage him to drink more, I think the Metamucil is slightly different from the Miralax start with a small amount (even if it's less than the vets tell you) until Fred gets used to it, and gradually increase it to the recommended dose, that way you are less likely to make him vomit.
 

AV_

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@missy Fred had a different course of treatment & who knows how these things work! It is important that he is eating, even if his digestion will keep requiring aids while any RW treatment is done; & how long will that be, since RW is receding? [I remember that it takes about one month after hair growth resumes, for cats to be likely not contagious & ready for testing to confirm, etc.]
 

missy

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Have you talked to your sis about depression? There are a few meds (if I remember correctly, some are topical to be applied to the ears) that treat depression in cats.

If he's not getting enough fluids, he'll stay constipated. To entice him to drink more water on his own, try adding the liquid from canned tuna or another fishy source.

While you cannot not treat him for RW, perhaps isolating him and stopping treatment for awhile (or at least the dips) until he starts to eat/poop/pee normally might help at least until you determine if depression is the issue and treat for that. I know that is not where you want to go and it would be a last resort.
Thanks Matata. I just texted my sister to see what she thinks about treating him for depression. I will add liquid from canned tuna into the water and see if that entices him to drink. Thanks for the suggestions.

We tried isolating Fred at the very start of RW gate as he was the second cat to be diagnosed with RW. The first one was Oliver who was already isolated from the others. So we isolated Fred from Bobby and Tommy (and Oliver) for 4 days and he refused to eat for most of the time and was crying much of that time. We really wanted to prevent the spread so did it but after it was clear Bobby got it 4 days into Fred's isolation we realized it was a battle we were going to lose and allowed him to rejoin his brothers.

Fred started eating again at that time so it was clear he was depressed from being isolated. He is purring and seems content but just listless and not like himself. He sits with us all evening on the love seat all of us squished in there with Fred purring the entire evening as long as we are by his side. I don't pretend to know their inner minds and what's going on in their brains but he does seem relatively content despite all we are going through but for the fact he has no energy and is not able to have a BM. Of course he is miserable when we shampoo him and when they L-S dip him. We see his vet Tuesday and I will see what she suggests. We are giving him Sub Q fluids but not sure that is doing anything. She might want to do another enema or two but I really want to get him going on his own. Those enemas were unpleasant.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Do you have a cat water fountain or something with running water as a drinking place or dish, no idea why but some cats are drawn to those things, as something that might encourage him to drink more, I think the Metamucil is slightly different from the Miralax start with a small amount (even if it's less than the vets tell you) until Fred gets used to it, and gradually increase it to the recommended dose, that way you are less likely to make him vomit.
Thanks for that idea @arkieb1. I will research those water fountains and see what options we have. Do you have any specific drinking fountains you recommend?
@PintoBean this might be up your alley...any drinking fountains for the cats that you like?

I didn't add anything but olive oil to Fred's food yesterday and this AM. I just don't want him to vomit the little nutrition he is getting. But I will add a little bit of fiber I guess soon and see what happens. Thanks.
 

missy

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@missy Fred had a different course of treatment & who knows how these things work! It is important that he is eating, even if his digestion will keep requiring aids while any RW treatment is done; & how long will that be, since RW is receding? [I remember that it takes about one month after hair growth resumes, for cats to be likely not contagious & ready for testing to confirm, etc.]
Thanks @AV_. I don't want to culture anyone just yet because Bobby is probably not in the clear and neither IMO is Fred. So much black stuff coming off his face and paws still. As soon as Greg cleans it more black gunk appears. Greg says it isn't fungus but truly we don't know. My thinking is if we culture one or 2 cats but the others def have the fungus still they can give it to the others again and a negative culture on the cats who are clear could mean nothing if they catch it again. It's a vicious cycle and I want all cats to be clear before we test for the best chance to keep them clear if that makes sense. But again I will defer to their vet and if she wants to culture them I will allow it. It's a long haul. We technically need 2 negative cultures 2-3 weeks apart and each culture takes 3-4 weeks to obtain results so it's a few months at least ahead of us of not knowing anything definitively. Or at least not knowing if they are clear because I guess with continued hair loss areas we will know they are not clear. :/


One of the worst things about this right now (and there are a lot of not great things about this obviously) is that Greg might have to postpone his knee surgery that he has waited for over a year to have. The reason he postponed it last year is a long story but suffice to say he has bone on bone in that knee and the orthopedic surgeon was surprised he was able to walk let alone cycle thousands of miles. But never mind that. Greg was all set to have the knee surgery in November and now it is not looking good. He cannot have it while the cats have RW. We cannot go back to NYC while the cats still are infected. We don't want to infect another home plus we need 2 people to care for the cats right now so it's a difficult situation.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Just asked Greg about Fred's dehydration. Greg does not think Fred is dehydrated because he squeezes his back every day and pulls up the skin to see if it is elastic and so far it is so he isn't dehydrated. But who knows if he is drinking enough and perhaps that is contributing to his constipation even if he isn't dehydrated...and we are giving him fluids but not sure it is all enough.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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oh dear that's awful about Greg's knee
ouch i can almost feel that pain
poor old Fred
give him a hug from me
and every one else too
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Thanks @Daisys and Diamonds, just hugged Fred from you and all the other kitties as well. And Greg too. I never miss an excuse to hug him. :cheeky: The cats are harder to hug these days because I don't want to get RW from them but it's OK. I was about to shower after cleaning the house this AM so it all worked out timing wise.

I just spoke with my sister and she said no to antidepressants. It will slow everything down which is just what Fred doesn't need right now. I did order more Feliway refills because all 4 are almost empty. Didn't even last 30 days,. Maybe that means they are sucking it up lol. One can only hope it is working to calm them down.
 

missy

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PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
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Thanks for that idea @arkieb1. I will research those water fountains and see what options we have. Do you have any specific drinking fountains you recommend?
@PintoBean this might be up your alley...any drinking fountains for the cats that you like?

I didn't add anything but olive oil to Fred's food yesterday and this AM. I just don't want him to vomit the little nutrition he is getting. But I will add a little bit of fiber I guess soon and see what happens. Thanks.
No, I don't use a fountain. But I can attest to the fact that when you leave a cup you normally drink out of, filled with water, the cat will go to it. @LAJennifer
 

Matata

Ideal_Rock
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unless someone chimes in telling me there is a better one or this one isn't good.
Petsafe has 2 on their website that are metal and I'd recommend that over plastic. I've had a few of their fountains in plastic and they get icky quick in all the little nooks and crannies and can be inconvenient to clean.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Petsafe has 2 on their website that are metal and I'd recommend that over plastic. I've had a few of their fountains in plastic and they get icky quick in all the little nooks and crannies and can be inconvenient to clean.
Thanks Matata. We are using stainless steel water bowls for them now and it seems to work well for both cats and humans (in terms of ease of cleaning).

What do you think about this one?
https://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-Drinkwell-Multi-Pet-Stainless-Fountain/dp/B002SB91QS/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=petsafe+2+metal+water+fountain&qid=1569092176&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-7

What I like about the Petsafe fountains is they are similar to their current set up minus the flowing water. So perhaps they will drink from it.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Thanks Arkieb. I don't think our cats would go for those as they are too different from what they are used to. I'm not sure they will go for any of these water fountains but I am looking for one that is as similar to their current set up as possible. I still haven't ordered it because I am procrastinating.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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The PetSafe one is good - the fountain like running water is the thing that attracts some cats to it. Although it might not be the cat you are aiming for, so leaving human glasses and cups of water around as though they are not meant for the cats and that will probably work as well. Mine both go for human cups and glasses sitting around, but they both like running water too.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Brilliant_Rock
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my cats would have so much fun with that
im sure Fred will enjoy it (and drink out of it)
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Brilliant_Rock
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The PetSafe one is good - the fountain like running water is the thing that attracts some cats to it. Although it might not be the cat you are aiming for, so leaving human glasses and cups of water around as though they are not meant for the cats and that will probably work as well. Mine both go for human cups and glasses sitting around, but they both like running water too.
tell me about it
the other night i sat down with two bickies (cookies) and a glass of milk and next thing i know Borris has her tounge in my glass !
ive always thought if a glass or a plate is on the floor then that's fare game because they eat from their plates on the floor, and its unfair to growl at that. This was on the side table
if i was watching tv sitting on the floor Tinky would put his whole arm/front foot in my glass of water and lick the water from his fur (which was ok so long as i knew about it so i could get myself a clean one !) and he also liked to drink from the bottom of the shower

what i don't get is i run around everyday cleaning and refilling multible indoor and outdoor water bowls and they still chose to drink out of a dirty old puddle !
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Nothing good to report.

Bobby's hair loss wound on his back is not looking good. I really don't know what to think and he has black on his face that wasn't there before that is suspiciously looking like fungus. Greg says no he doesn't think so but he doesn't know what it is. Did I mention I think he is in denial? I am maintaining calm because what other options do we have?

Tommy is losing more hair again. Not sure what is happening with him. And all the Feliway plug ins that were supposed to last a month are empty. I have refills coming today but what gives? They lasted what 2 weeks? Why are they emptying so fast?

Fred has not had a BM since the enemas. He is eating. My sister says if he is eating then he shouldn't be dehydrated but I am not sure he is eating enough. Greg is continuing the Sub Q fluids every other day. Fred's face is just looking terrible. More black stuff keeps coming.

Oliver, what can I say about Oliver. So far no new areas (knock wood) but he hasn't gotten rid of all the black on his nose. I think it could just be aftermath of the fungal infection but what do I know? The vet doesn't address these areas. It's frustrating because I don't see the vet in person and just get messages from her through the staff. I can call her but she isn't much help and I feel like besides the L-S dips we are on our own for now as that vet office is not much help besides the L-S dips and I sure hope they are doing them correctly.

Six new Itrafungol bottles delivered yesterday but not sure how much longer I can keep them on the med. I don't want to destroy their livers. And I am not sure it is helping either. But perhaps they would be much worse without Itrafungol. I just don't know.

Can you tell we are weary? Greg is planning to go back to work mid October. I think we are stuck at the beach house for at least the entire Autumn season. I don't see a miraculous cure happening any time soon. Now I have to figure a way not to lose my mind here if we are indeed here for at least another 3 months or more. I literally have nothing to do here but be online and cycle. Once cycling is over I don't have a clue how to occupy my mind so I do not go crazy and get depressed.

I am feeling a depression creep in and it isn't even cold here yet. I am mainly depressed and worried about the cats and my well being is far behind theirs. If I just knew they would be OK I would be OK. But we know no such thing.

Fred may not survive this and we don't even know what he is dealing with so how can we fight it? Besides the RW that is. And why is Bobby getting worse? He is relatively young and healthy. At 10 yo. My sister said it doesn't make sense with Bobby as he is the one who should have recovered quickly or at least not keep getting worse. She says keep on doing what we are doing but is he going to get better? Is Tommy going to get better? Is Oliver going to get better? Is Fred going to make it?

All this is on my mind and both Greg and I are physically and emotionally exhausted. Thanks for listening to my ramblings. And sorry to be such a drag these past months.:cry2: I don't blame anyone for tuning out.

Leaving you with little Ollie. Who's not so little anymore.

Screen Shot 2019-09-22 at 6.23.30 AM.png

Screen Shot 2019-09-22 at 6.23.42 AM.png
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
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Ollie is turning into such a handsome boy
Borris who is fixed, still likes the boys (well not Tibby much)
anyway Tibby gives the best hugs
and im sending you all buckets of them across the oceans
just sit down, have a breather and know you are doing your very best missy
at the end of the day that's all anyone can do
 

Slick1

Brilliant_Rock
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1,389
((Hugs)) @missy It is just so unfair and unreal what you are dealing with. No wonder you’re feeling depressed and extremely concerned. You have done more than most would/could and yet there are so many setbacks. I am so sorry. Continuing to send love and prayers for a cure for you all. :kiss2:
 

PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 27, 2011
Messages
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Missy, greg's office should be able to provide you a number for EAP. This benefit is employer sponsored and should include some face to face therapy sessions. You dont need insurance for the sessions either. This is a lot to deal with, I hope speaking to a professional will be a helpful outlet.
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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May 11, 2013
Messages
5,595
Aw Missy I am sorry it's not more uplifting news.. MISSY don't be depressed we are here.. we love you.. If you haven't seen this (and you probably have) I read and watched this and I thought OMG It's Missy in Seattle! she would be doing the same, you are not alone, animals lovers and families with animal kids are united behind you. ME!! ME!! sorry I haven't been around much as my effing tooth problem hurts but see doc on Tuesday then off the Atown to find another doc.

Missy those kids need you, and what you give to them, they give back to you... you should get an award for going far and beyond some human kid moms would do. seriously! we are here.. hold yourself in the high esteem your furkids do, I do and many of us do.. it's tough to be a leader and a model but you have that hat on and I believe in you and Greg. mucho many times over love to you and gorgeous GREG! :) xoxoxo


Nothing good to report.

Bobby's hair loss wound on his back is not looking good. I really don't know what to think and he has black on his face that wasn't there before that is suspiciously looking like fungus. Greg says no he doesn't think so but he doesn't know what it is. Did I mention I think he is in denial? I am maintaining calm because what other options do we have?

Tommy is losing more hair again. Not sure what is happening with him. And all the Feliway plug ins that were supposed to last a month are empty. I have refills coming today but what gives? They lasted what 2 weeks? Why are they emptying so fast?

Fred has not had a BM since the enemas. He is eating. My sister says if he is eating then he shouldn't be dehydrated but I am not sure he is eating enough. Greg is continuing the Sub Q fluids every other day. Fred's face is just looking terrible. More black stuff keeps coming.

Oliver, what can I say about Oliver. So far no new areas (knock wood) but he hasn't gotten rid of all the black on his nose. I think it could just be aftermath of the fungal infection but what do I know? The vet doesn't address these areas. It's frustrating because I don't see the vet in person and just get messages from her through the staff. I can call her but she isn't much help and I feel like besides the L-S dips we are on our own for now as that vet office is not much help besides the L-S dips and I sure hope they are doing them correctly.

Six new Itrafungol bottles delivered yesterday but not sure how much longer I can keep them on the med. I don't want to destroy their livers. And I am not sure it is helping either. But perhaps they would be much worse without Itrafungol. I just don't know.

Can you tell we are weary? Greg is planning to go back to work mid October. I think we are stuck at the beach house for at least the entire Autumn season. I don't see a miraculous cure happening any time soon. Now I have to figure a way not to lose my mind here if we are indeed here for at least another 3 months or more. I literally have nothing to do here but be online and cycle. Once cycling is over I don't have a clue how to occupy my mind so I do not go crazy and get depressed.

I am feeling a depression creep in and it isn't even cold here yet. I am mainly depressed and worried about the cats and my well being is far behind theirs. If I just knew they would be OK I would be OK. But we know no such thing.

Fred may not survive this and we don't even know what he is dealing with so how can we fight it? Besides the RW that is. And why is Bobby getting worse? He is relatively young and healthy. At 10 yo. My sister said it doesn't make sense with Bobby as he is the one who should have recovered quickly or at least not keep getting worse. She says keep on doing what we are doing but is he going to get better? Is Tommy going to get better? Is Oliver going to get better? Is Fred going to make it?

All this is on my mind and both Greg and I are physically and emotionally exhausted. Thanks for listening to my ramblings. And sorry to be such a drag these past months.:cry2: I don't blame anyone for tuning out.

Leaving you with little Ollie. Who's not so little anymore.

Screen Shot 2019-09-22 at 6.23.30 AM.png

Screen Shot 2019-09-22 at 6.23.42 AM.png
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
26,601
Ollie is turning into such a handsome boy
Borris who is fixed, still likes the boys (well not Tibby much)
anyway Tibby gives the best hugs
and im sending you all buckets of them across the oceans
just sit down, have a breather and know you are doing your very best missy
at the end of the day that's all anyone can do
Thanks Daisy for your unwavering support. Bobby definitely has new fungus on his face. Just cleaned it and saw hair loss. This is surreal.

Maybe I am in The Twilight Zone... @JPie :shock:
 
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missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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((Hugs)) @missy It is just so unfair and unreal what you are dealing with. No wonder you’re feeling depressed and extremely concerned. You have done more than most would/could and yet there are so many setbacks. I am so sorry. Continuing to send love and prayers for a cure for you all. :kiss2:
Thank you Slick. You are such a good friend. With all you are going through and have been through and still thinking of me. (((Hugs))).
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jun 8, 2008
Messages
26,601
Missy, greg's office should be able to provide you a number for EAP. This benefit is employer sponsored and should include some face to face therapy sessions. You dont need insurance for the sessions either. This is a lot to deal with, I hope speaking to a professional will be a helpful outlet.
Thank you PB. If someone told me a few months ago before we got this that a fungus could wreak such havoc I would have been hard pressed to believe them. It is truly unreal. And you are right. It is a lot to deal with- even with all we are doing and they aren't getting better. If only they were getting better I would feel more hopeful and strong and it would be so much easier to handle. If they were getting better vs getting worse. Yet here we are. Bobby is definitely getting new spots. Fred is not doing well. And who knows what is going on with Tommy. And even Oliver still has black on his face.

I don't have time (should say I don't have the energy) to head into the city for therapy sessions right now but I appreciate the info as I had no clue about EAP and will keep it in mind should I feel I need to talk to a professional. Just asked Greg about it and you are (as usual) so right. I had never even heard of EAP. Greg doesn't know how it works but he confirmed what you said that yes I could get free therapy. If only the therapist could cure the cats RW we would be in good shape lol. I know what I have is situational but the question is when will this situation change.:/
 
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