Re-setting Heirloom Diamond Questions (Risks and Design)

[SeekingClarity]

Hello PS,

This forum has really proven to be invaluable, so I am once again turning to PS for help. I would like to re-set an heirloom diamond ring into a pendant and had a few questions.

1. is there any risk of being questioned about the diamond's origin, since it has been passed from one family member to another since 1889 and I clearly don't have a laser inscription/certification to match? I seem to recall reading about this potentially being an issue when a stone is re-cut, but not sure if it is similar for just setting.
2. Should I get it unset, certified and then set in the new jewel? Will it make it easier for an appraiser to value the overall piece? I would plan to use GSL in Sydney, based on previous recommendations, though I'm not sure how they'd fair with an older style cut.
3. How accurate can an appraiser be (even a good one) with determining a diamond's specs, when there is no certification, it is an old miner's cut (?) and it is over 100 years old? I would like to make sure that it is properly covered by insurance since it is ~2 ct, though there really would be no replacement for the sentimental value.
4. Alistair's floret design is the current front runner... any other ideas for a simple diamond pendant?

https://www.instagram.com/p/_dkWX3HpVM/?taken-by=alistairkelseyjewellery
https://www.instagram.com/p/4jWUlnHpUI/?taken-by=alistairkelseyjewellery

Cheers!
SC

 

[SimoneDi]

Oh since the diamond is around 2ct I would definitely get it recut to optimize its performance! So awesome to acquire such a large stone!
If you are the rightful owner, I am not sure why you would be concerned about someone questioning your ownership of the diamond generally, old stones were not laser engraved, so unless it is some "famous" diamond that magically landed in your lap, I would not be concerned. Several years ago, I recut an heirloom stone, I further certified it with AGS and I really enjoyed the ideal cut performance! I recut mine with Brian Gavin.
The pendant setting inspiration is not bad, but I would personally prefer a more intricate design with more open gallery that would make reaching the diamond easier for cleaning purposes. Something like this perhaps (head only) https://www.etsy.com/listing/237538848/cvb-dahlia-solitaire-setting

 

[AdaBeta27]

Why would you want to recut the diamond? Genuine old cuts are very popular again. Unless the stone is supremely poor cut, or it has chips that can't be dealt with any other way, I'd say leave it as-is or possibly just have it repolished to remove abrasions and improve the polish. There were several diamonds that Erica of Love Affair Diamonds had repolished a few years back. That was sufficient to make them look fantastic, and they didn't lose character nor much carat weight in the process. If yours is a colorless or near colorless old cut, those are really rare here in the USA because most high color antique diamonds got recut into more valuable round brilliants decades ago when antique cuts were not sought-after like they are today. The larger old cut diamonds we have in USA are usually J/K color and warmer, because those were not "worth" a recut. My mother has an E/F Old European Cut diamond from Belgium and that is very uncommon here.

 

[AdaBeta27]

With the floret setting you picked, my concern is does it give you enough clearance to get at least a few brush bristles onto the back of the diamond to scrub it? With older cuts that may not have all the great optics of today's superideals, you might want something that is more open in the pavilion area to let light in that area to help offset leakage. And to facilitate keeping the diamond clean, as I already mentioned. Another consideration is does your diamond window or not? If it does, you might want to study how a more boxy vs. more open mounting affects that. I have a shallow OEC that is much better set in a Tiffany-style prong head than it is in a lower setting that covers up the pavilion too much.


eta: The quick and easy performance test to check for leakage is take the diamond under a desk or table where there is dim light, and try wrapping your fingers around the pavilion area to box it in. See how bright or dim your diamond looks with open vs. closed back by changing how you hold it. I think that test is discussed here on PS someplace. I've been on this board "forever." I remember discussions but can't always locate them years later. hee hee

 

[SimoneDi]

Why would you want to recut the diamond? Genuine old cuts are very popular again. Unless the stone is supremely poor cut, or it has chips that can't be dealt with any other way, I'd say leave it as-is or possibly just have it repolished to remove abrasions and improve the polish. There were several diamonds that Erica of Love Affair Diamonds had repolished a few years back. That was sufficient to make them look fantastic, and they didn't lose character nor much carat weight in the process. If yours is a colorless or near colorless old cut, those are really rare here in the USA because most high color antique diamonds got recut into more valuable round brilliants decades ago when antique cuts were not sought-after like they are today. The larger old cut diamonds we have in USA are usually J/K color and warmer, because those were not "worth" a recut. My mother has an E/F Old European Cut diamond from Belgium and that is very uncommon here.

Sorry! I read through the OPs post quickly and just saw that she considered a recut for an old stone but didn't pay attention to the year. I should have specified that I would recut only IF it is an early MRB.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

I would have a well respected local jeweler or appraiser appraise the diamond ring for insurance purposes. Then get it insured. I would not skip these steps because if the diamond is lost or damaged by you or a jeweler you will not be compensated.

After this you can decide if you would like have the stone removed and graded by a reputable lab, re-set or both. If you choose to have the diamond re-set you will need another appraisal for your insurance company.

In my experience appraisers over-value diamonds and jewelry because they estimate the retail cost of replacing the item. Buying diamonds and jewelry on-line by reputable vendors is typically less expensive than brick and mortar stores.

BTW- the old cut lovers on this forum would love a picture of your diamond.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

She's not having it recut.

I wouldn't bother sending it to be graded, personally. You just need an appraisal if you plan to insure it.

I love the floret setting! However, I'd personally want a more antique style setting to go with an antique stone. Like others have said, be sure the back is open so you can reach to clean the stone with a little brush.

 

[ringo865]

Pictures

 

[foxinsox]

+1 for the pleas for pictures? also thank goodness you're not going to recut it, that would be a sad loss.
Also that setting is lovely but see if they can open the back so you can clean it? And Adabeta is right - block off the pavilion and see what it does to the light performance. I've seen a few people note that bezeling/enclosing the pavilion has made their faceting stand out more so it would be fascinating to see what it does for your stone.

 

[SeekingClarity]

Thank you all for the advice/recommendations--particularly on accessibility for cleaning, impact a bezel can have on performance and getting it appraised/insured before anything else is done!

I may have shared this photo before, but here's a pic of the ring in question where you can clearly see the engraving with the year. Will have to capture a photo face-on to highlight the faceting/shape, as it is slightly oval.

The diamond itself has some small scratches along the girdle, which also appears to be very thin. This is why I was thinking of something with a bezel or a more protective setting. I'd really love to keep the original cut for sentimental reasons (even considered keeping it in the original ring!), but hadn't thought of having it polished. To be honest, when I showed it to a jeweller last year, it was cleaned for what is probably the first time in 100 years!

It is warmer in color, perhaps along the lines of J/K? Will check on the "windowing", photograph it face on (for you all) and test to see how covering the pavilion affects the sparkle. Then my next step will be to get it appraised/insured. It will be interesting to see what details they can include on the stone itself while it is still set within the ring.

I love the Caysie's work, and while a more antique style setting may match the cut of the stone, it isn't really my fiance's style (I'm hoping she will be able to wear the pendant at our wedding though). Sending the stone to the US from Australia is also a bit daunting, as I cannot find any insurance in Australia to cover the stone while it is being set elsewhere (unlike those in the US/Canada).

Forgot to mention that my fiance will also certainly be involved in choosing the setting! She prefers a more modern look. This is her e-ring. Any other setting suggestions for a pendant? Perhaps Alistair can craft something to match the lines of the e-ring?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BLvRUd3D7Sb/?taken-by=alistairkelseyjewellery

Cheers,
SC

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[ringo865]

Oooh that setting is cool -1889! Can you use it for a colored stone?

 

[valeria101]

Just a note about the current setting - WWW

- a story of good design in my book.

There are a few revivals & de novo reinventions around here.

 

[mochiko42]

Maybe Garry Holloway @Garry H (Cut Nut) (http://www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au/) could provide some advice? He is in Melbourne, not Sydney, but is a diamond expert and one of the owners of PS (he invented the HCA).

 

[SeekingClarity]

@ringo865 thanks! We are certainly considering re-purposing the setting for a colored stone. I've barely scratched the surface of the colored stone forum though... it seems daunting. Perhaps a task for after the wedding!

@valeria101 wow, that's incredible. I had wondered about the style of setting, thank you for sharing this information. I will pass this on to my family as well.

@mochiko42 I'm in Melbourne regularly for work, but it would be a bit challenging to get out to Garry's shop. Do you know if he has experience with older style cuts and/or does appraisals? There is a good appraiser here in Sydney that was recommended by the forum (GSL http://www.gemstudieslaboratory.com.au/about-us.html), but I'm not sure whether they would know older style cuts.

 

[Katesimone]

I personally think it is a crying shame to destroy the original ring that has been in your family for so long but if this is something you want to do I would suggest getting advice on appraisals from different high end jewellers in Sydney - there are loads in the QVB who could offer you advice. I don't think it's worth sending it to the US if what you want can be done in Australia, and they could definitely point you in the right direction. They could also recommend a jeweller who could do this if you don't have one. (Otherwise, depending on where abouts is Syd you are, I highly recommend John at Turramurra Jewellers.)

 

[valeria101]

,-)

Ctd. re:

There are a few revivals & de novo reinventions around here.

These are two of them: round & marquise ...

I am guessing that your very open setting is particularly suited to the diamond's relatively shallow cut - a WILD guess ! If your appraiser confirms, this is something to keep in mind for the new setting too, and for any future choice of new stone for this setting (say, a darker Australian sapphire would benefit too ... )

 

[Wombats]

That's a beautiful ring. It's a shame to reset it. A right hand ring?

 

[partgypsy]

Hmm maybe my coffee hasn't kicked in, but where is the pic of the antique ring? The link I clicked showed a modern (new) setting

 

[junebug17]

This is the current setting

 

[SeekingClarity]

Technically the ring fits on my hand, but is likely too large for my DF's thumb! The idea was to gift it to her to wear at our wedding as a pendant (something old, something new...). I'm not sure I would really wear the ring much myself, so it would see a lot more use and enjoyment (which is what the original owner would have wanted) as a pendant.

Here's a better photo of the face of the diamond. You can see straight through the culet, which is really neat.

@AdaBeta27 sorry, but can you (or someone) please explain windowing to me? I thought it was whether color can be seen through the culet, but now I'm thinking it has more to do with being able to see through the table itself. Would a stone that has windowing be more or less well suited to an enclosed setting?

@Katesimone thanks for the recommendation, but Turramurra is a bit far from us. Alistair has been great to work with so far and his insurance will let him work on outside stones as well.

@valeria101 I'll have to see if they can provide dimensions on the stone at the appraisal... I am also quite curious to know as much about the stone as possible!

 

[valeria101]

Ha ! I should have known that this is a man's ring ... - the style has this reputation, although there have always been exceptions (for the likes of yours truly).

If the stone turns out to be relatiely shallow - a matter of style, not a defect, it is ever more suitable for a pendant. It does look that way in the latest picture too. Funny coincidence ... Garry made this point about modern brilliant cut proportions, somewhere around here.

Looking forward to the next steps ! (as they say)

 

[ringo865]

Wow I love it!!

 

[SeekingClarity]

I've just posted photos of the final product in SMTB (along with my ring)!

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-ring-and-heirloom-oec-floret-pendant.235182/

Sorry for the cross-posting, but I thought the folks in this thread might be curious about the final product. Admins, please delete if this is not appropriate!

Cheers,
SC

 

[LightBright]

Thanks for the notification, I can’t WAIT to see your reset!! Heading to SMTB now...

 

[foxinsox]

I've just posted photos of the final product in SMTB (along with my ring)!

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-ring-and-heirloom-oec-floret-pendant.235182/

Sorry for the cross-posting, but I thought the folks in this thread might be curious about the final product. Admins, please delete if this is not appropriate!

Cheers,
SC

It’s fab! Did you end up doing anything to the stone like repolishing or recutting? It looks beautiful.

 

[SeekingClarity]

It’s fab! Did you end up doing anything to the stone like repolishing or recutting? It looks beautiful.

Thank you! We didn't do anything to the stone, just popped it out of the old setting (which was quite strong and brittle) and had it re-set. I did need to get it certified before having it set though.

Cheers,
SC