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Junc80

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2018
Messages
79
Hello,

I am considering getting inscription of GIA number on our engagement ring diamond. It came with GIA cert but was not inscripted with GIA number. My question is: if you take your diamond out of the setting to get it inscripted, do the prongs become weaker since you're readjusting the same metal? Mine are in 4 prongs and i wondered if the prongs would become weaker if I got the diamond taken out for inscription and reput into setting.

Also, the 4 prongs make the diamond look squarish. Is it possible to make a setting with 4 prongs into a 5 prong so that the diamond will look more round than square?
 
I don't know if the answer will vary based on the type of setting- it is a three stone setting. Thank you!
 
Junc80 said:
Hello,

I am considering getting inscription of GIA number on our engagement ring diamond. It came with GIA cert but was not inscripted with GIA number. My question is: if you take your diamond out of the setting to get it inscripted, do the prongs become weaker since you're readjusting the same metal? Mine are in 4 prongs and i wondered if the prongs would become weaker if I got the diamond taken out for inscription and reput into setting.

Also, the 4 prongs make the diamond look squarish. Is it possible to make a setting with 4 prongs into a 5 prong so that the diamond will look more round than square?
Click to expand...
To answer your question about adding one more prong to ring is more likely no , you will need a new head or completely different ring , depends on the setting . Taking diamond ones out of setting is not gonna compromise the prongs., but also depends on the prongs ( super tiny and thin or more thick) just snap a picture so we can see:)))
 
I wont be able to get an actual pic until tomorrow but I found a pic online that looks just like it. After looking at how the metal is a big part of the setting, I think you're right that I'd have to get a new setting if I want 5 prongs instead. What do the jewelers do if the metal wears off over time? Is there a technique to adding more metal?

ER3890W44JJ-2-450x450.jpg
 
This was written regarding a paper clip but it still applies....

As you bend a piece of wire back and forth, at any given moment one side will be in compression, and the other will be in tension which are terms that describe the state of stress of the material, where stress has the units of pressure (force/area). As you bend back and forth the tension and compression sides alternate which puts it into a state that is approximated through a simple engineering fatigue model which effectively tries to predict when microcracks will propogate until fracture. This model says that if you apply force to the wire so that the absolute value of the maximum stress in the wire remains below a material value called the fatigue strength then you can bend the wire back and forth nearly indefinitely without it fracturing. As the stress increases and approaches another material value called the tensile strength, the number of bends you can perform on the wire becomes finite, anywhere from hundreds of millions to a few thousand bends. At the point where the maximum stress in the wire surpasses the tensile strength, you reach the point where the wire remains bent after you remove the force and you can break the wire after just a few bends; this is because each time you bend the wire with this much stress, you decrease the effective modulus of elasticity of the wire, which means that it becomes easier to bend the wire a further distance while still applying the same force. The result being that the stress in the wire climbs very quickly with each new bend and will soon approach the ultimate tensile strength, which denotes the stress at which the wire will instantly fracture.
 
looking at your engagement ring I see double prongs holding the center diamond, if this is the case you do not have to worry about the prongs re-use.
I would think twice if I want to remove the diamond for inscription, you can alway verify the diamond against its certificate without engraving.
 
If you want the stone not to look squarish, you need 6 or 8 prongs placed equidistant around the stone's perimeter. 5 will not really round it out and is an unusual number of prongs (although less so if they are beads within a bezel).

You can get the stone removed for engraving by a competent jeweler. Making the assumption you've not had the stone replaced more than once or twice already. I would second @david b inquiry about why you want it engraved. If the stone is extremely unique or valuable (Fancy color or highly expensive) - or very high clarity (VVS1, IF, FL), then engraving can be useful as it can be hard to have clear ID markers within the plot to know your stone. Otherwise, is it an insurance requirement? Would you anticipate handing your ring to unknown parties to have the opportunity to swap the stone?

Metal fatigue is real, but you can tell when you are working on the prongs if it feel stiff. Worst case scenario, you re-heat the metal and re-harden all over (and go through the laborious cleaning process...my least favorite job as a kid). Nobody wants to do that, but physics works both ways. You harden by aligning the molecules into orderly arrangement -- you unharded the metal by making the molecules disorganized.
 
Stone is a SI2 so I suppose it won't take a genius to look for the inclusion but it's hard for me to note any inclusions myself. The prong was redone once before as i had another SI2 stone with huge black inclusion that I exchanged. It's hard to see from the picture but the middle small diamond came off and I plan to take it to the jeweler to have them put one in. Thing is each time I take it in to the jeweler for anything like cleaning I am required to stand near the guy cleaning it to make sure the stone does not get swapped. My jeweler is in downtown LA where feels a bit ghetto- jeweler sends u to their more trusted guy amongst 1000s that work out of a small room in the back in downtown la jewelry district. I recently read a thread on ps where a person's stone got swapped. I guess I am realizing that this actually happens and I am tired of looking over the shoulder of a person cleaning my jewelry each time. If they did swap it, how would I provide proof that they did it or that it happened that day without video evidence? My stone isn't top of line anything but still would like to prevent attempts for swap of any sort. Is it obvious if a seal is made if you look at the prongs per say?
 
20181022_064611.jpg
 

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In this case, being an SI2, get yourself a x10 magnifying glass, take a look at the diamond from table side and bottom side I am convinced you will remember it.
You may also look for cracks at the ring especially the prongs holding the diamonds with that magnifying glass.
 
I agree with @david b. You need to spend time looking at your diamond and learning its birthmarks. I prefer to do this at 20 or 30x, but that is tough with a hand-held loupe. 10x is the standard. The plot on the certification can help guide you. So, you spend some time with your stone and find you have "a starfish, a magic-wand and a pony head". So, you draw those on a little diagram to get to know how big and where.

Every single time you hand over your diamond, the jeweler should do the same. They will read the plot and make their own diagram. Make sure they note the "starfish, a magic-wand and a pony head" in shape and location {maybe not by name :) }. You get copy of that diagram and the name of the person who did it. They write down every stamp on your ring and any significant marks/damage. When you receive your ring back, they put the ring back under the scope and do the same. Confirm all the marks and confirm with you. You agree. If you have it laser-inscribed, you would do the same - but they would read the number off the girdle to you each time. I have never known a jeweler not to do this that was not a big box store. Even if they don't -- you insist upon it. We did this at my grandmother's shop decades ago. We had a little post-card that had the intake form with a circle for the plot, notes and an inscription recording area (which divided the shank in quarters). We recorded the ring size. We did it for every single gemstone, including assigning an approximate color off a big chart for anything with fancy color or was a colored stone. We assigned our grading of color of any diamond (very stones were certified in those days). {I say we, but I mostly was the scribe for customer stones and this was done by my older family members!}

If you are describing your jeweler as "ghetto", find another jeweler. Seriously. You should feel completely safe leaving a ring with them for a polish or total re-work.
 
Another remark on identifying your diamond:
the diamond certificate has 8 metric details
Length in mm
width in mm
depth in mm
depth %
table %
Crown %
pavillion %
girdle in %
It is measured in the labs by one of two optical machines that are in the market, either a Sarin or an Ogi machine, each time you measure the results
are slightly different, about 1% or more so if we make 5 measures we can make the more accurate average.

So now think of these 8 results as the diamond's combination locker, there are no two diamonds alike.
This will positively identify your diamond plus observing the flaws
 
sledge said:
This was written regarding a paper clip but it still applies....

As you bend a piece of wire back and forth, at any given moment one side will be in compression, and the other will be in tension which are terms that describe the state of stress of the material, where stress has the units of pressure (force/area). As you bend back and forth the tension and compression sides alternate which puts it into a state that is approximated through a simple engineering fatigue model which effectively tries to predict when microcracks will propogate until fracture. This model says that if you apply force to the wire so that the absolute value of the maximum stress in the wire remains below a material value called the fatigue strength then you can bend the wire back and forth nearly indefinitely without it fracturing. As the stress increases and approaches another material value called the tensile strength, the number of bends you can perform on the wire becomes finite, anywhere from hundreds of millions to a few thousand bends. At the point where the maximum stress in the wire surpasses the tensile strength, you reach the point where the wire remains bent after you remove the force and you can break the wire after just a few bends; this is because each time you bend the wire with this much stress, you decrease the effective modulus of elasticity of the wire, which means that it becomes easier to bend the wire a further distance while still applying the same force. The result being that the stress in the wire climbs very quickly with each new bend and will soon approach the ultimate tensile strength, which denotes the stress at which the wire will instantly fracture.
Click to expand...
Thank you for that elaborate explanation. You must do work in this field :)
 
Thank you, it looks like I should be getting myself a small kit which includes a loupe and asking the jeweler to check things out for me each time. I've always wanted an ideal scope ever since joining ps to read up on stuff. Are you guys aware of kit of such sort that provide you with ideal scope and loupe at a budget friendly price? Preferably good quality and higher magnifying the better for less than say.. $70? :)
 
David Klass is in LA and is a Pricescope recommended jeweler.
 
I think I like the ASET scope idea. It looks like you need to be a AGS member to pay $25 for an ASET scope. Do you know if you can be a member without being a gemologist or belonging to any organization? I filled out a request to be a member but stated that i do not belong to an organization
 
Junc80 said:
I think I like the ASET scope idea. It looks like you need to be a AGS member to pay $25 for an ASET scope. Do you know if you can be a member without being a gemologist or belonging to any organization? I filled out a request to be a member but stated that i do not belong to an organization
Click to expand...

There is a non member option for 25 also. ;)2

Edited to Add:
Eek. Just revisited and saw they raised the amount. What a crock of BS. It was 25 a few weeks back.

This really irritates the fk out of me. If you want to get consumers educated and bought into your grading reports ane ASET imagery make the prices enticing for the stupid scopes.
 
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I actually dont know a whole lot about the difference between the ASET and idealscope and thought it be cool to have one of either but I think a loupe 30x on amazon for $5 will do in getting me to verify my current stone when taking it in for cleaning. Maybe when I become a few dollars richer I may want to purchase one or the other. Thank you all for chiming in! :D
 
ASET is used to verify light performance of a stone. A loupe would be a better tool to identify inclusions and specialty marks for identification purposes.
 
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