Philosophic question about diamond advertising

[langchunWei]

Comments on OGI¡¯s Technology With Computers and Experience

When cutting the raw materials, what we pursue are two scientific guarantees on two ultimate standards: one is to ensure the best color quality and the other is to ensure the biggest carat weight, namely the least waste in raw materials.
These two guarantees are the most essential and vitalest practical issues. They are also the two most valuable commercial issues. Because how well the cutting shapes and cutting data are solved has the most direct, vitalst and the most decisive relationship with the quality and value of facets. OGI has made much effort to accomplish the study and development of software and hardware in OGI cutting equipment series which have been pushed into the world market.
Here I¡¯d like to explain that OGI¡¯s software and hardware product series are only the technical achievements on technology with computers and experience. Actually, OGI has not obtained the scientific theory, continuous functions and theoretical database for cutting. What it obtains is still the traditional experiential database. Thus, I just consider it as a technical achievement on technology with computer and experience. Am I right? I will show you something below.
First of all, Let¡¯s look at 10 OGI¡¯s pictures. The first problem in these pictures is that OGI just cut a big raw material into two smaller raw materials. The second one is that almost all the cutting facets are round. Why cannot OGI make any other shapes? That is a question. These two problems caused only one question, that is: what did OGI do for cutting shapes and cutting data and what OGI can do for them? Obviously, OGI did nothing. OGI can do nothing since it does not obtain any scientific cutting theory.

PICTURE 1 PICTURE 2

PICTURE 3 PICTURE 4

PICTURE 5 PICTURE 6

PICTURE 7 PICTURE 8

When cutting the raw materials, the first issue is to determine correctly the cutting shapes and then the theoretical cutting data. This is a scientific logic without doubt. However, people do not have the obedient attitudes towards this scientific logic when practically cutting the raw materials; instead, they cut most of the raw materials into round shapes. Therefore, OGI does not go beyond empiricism. And OGI¡¯s product series only accelerate the speed on cutting big material into smaller ones, just helping destroying.

PICTURE 9 PICTURE 10

To sum up, to reach the two scientific guarantees on two ultimate standards, we just can depend on scientific theory, continuous functions and theoretical database for cutting.

 

[langchunWei]

OGI 1.jpg

 

[langchunWei]

OGI 2.jpg

 

[langchunWei]

OGI 3.jpg

 

[langchunWei]

OGI 4.jpg

 

[langchunWei]

OGI 5.jpg

 

[langchunWei]

OGI 6.jpg

 

[langchunWei]

OGI 7.jpg

 

[langchunWei]

OGI 8.jpg

 

[langchunWei]

OGI 9.jpg

 

[langchunWei]

OGI 10.jpg

 

[strmrdr]

How does ogi compare too helium rough and oxygen?

http://www.ogisystems.com/manufactures/ogiplanner.html

http://www.octonus.ru/oct/products/helium/rough/

It is my understanding that octonus oxygen allows you too plan using several different grading systems as a target?

 

[Serg]

Date: 2/25/2008 1:45:57 AM
Author: strmrdr
How does ogi compare too helium rough and oxygen?

http://www.ogisystems.com/manufactures/ogiplanner.html

http://www.octonus.ru/oct/products/helium/rough/

It is my understanding that octonus oxygen allows you too plan using several different grading systems as a target?

re:How does ogi compare too helium rough and oxygen?

Strmdr,
For my information OGI doesn’t work with inclusions( OGI has not plotting 3D inclusions in rough. it can just cut piece of rough)
Main advantage HR+Mbox is work wih ANY inclusions and increasing adding value. It is very important for big and expansive orugh
Main advantage OGI is decreasing expenses . It is very important for low quality rough( the deacreasing expenses is more important than the adding value to receive profit on small rough)
re: It is my understanding that OctoNus oxygen allows you too plan using several different grading systems as a target?

It is not issue. All systems( OctoNus, Sarin, OGI and Indians scanners) Can do it

Issue is grading system. What cut grading system is profitable for cutters?

For round cut some cutters try use intersection between GIA and AGS. For Fancy cuts they have not any external rules

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/25/2008 2:37:20 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 2/25/2008 1:45:57 AM
Author: strmrdr
How does ogi compare too helium rough and oxygen?

http://www.ogisystems.com/manufactures/ogiplanner.html

http://www.octonus.ru/oct/products/helium/rough/

It is my understanding that octonus oxygen allows you too plan using several different grading systems as a target?

re:How does ogi compare too helium rough and oxygen?

Strmdr,
For my information OGI doesn’t work with inclusions( OGI has not plotting 3D inclusions in rough. it can just cut piece of rough)
Main advantage HR+Mbox is work wih ANY inclusions and increasing adding value. It is very important for big and expansive orugh
Main advantage OGI is decreasing expenses . It is very important for low quality rough( the deacreasing expenses is more important than the adding value to receive profit on small rough)

re: It is my understanding that OctoNus oxygen allows you too plan using several different grading systems as a target?

It is not issue. All systems( OctoNus, Sarin, OGI and Indians scanners) Can do it

Issue is grading system. What cut grading system is profitable for cutters?

For round cut some cutters try use intersection between GIA and AGS. For Fancy cuts they have not any external rules

Thanks serg!
For fancies can they import their own rules? Can it be used too import and plan proprietary cuts?

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/25/2008 2:37:20 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 2/25/2008 1:45:57 AM
Author: strmrdr
How does ogi compare too helium rough and oxygen?

http://www.ogisystems.com/manufactures/ogiplanner.html

http://www.octonus.ru/oct/products/helium/rough/

It is my understanding that octonus oxygen allows you too plan using several different grading systems as a target?

re:How does ogi compare too helium rough and oxygen?

Strmdr,
For my information OGI doesn’t work with inclusions( OGI has not plotting 3D inclusions in rough. it can just cut piece of rough)
Main advantage HR+Mbox is work wih ANY inclusions and increasing adding value. It is very important for big and expansive orugh
Main advantage OGI is decreasing expenses . It is very important for low quality rough( the deacreasing expenses is more important than the adding value to receive profit on small rough)

I dont have a lot of experience with OGI..., but the experience I did have with try-outs..., their fancy shape planning is far from accurate! Or more precisely..., The OGI system does not take all possibilities (especially tricky cutting) into account! And we cutters do..., but these possibilities are do-able only during the cutting process and based on my experience cant be planned ahead... (Am I making sense to you...?)

Serg..., why is OGi more suitable for low quality? Or how does it decrease expense? Because of the cost of the Tech?


re: It is my understanding that OctoNus oxygen allows you too plan using several different grading systems as a target?

It is not issue. All systems( OctoNus, Sarin, OGI and Indians scanners) Can do it

Issue is grading system. What cut grading system is profitable for cutters?

For round cut some cutters try use intersection between GIA and AGS. For Fancy cuts they have not any external rules

 

[Serg]

Re: Serg..., why is OGi more suitable for low quality? Or how does it decrease expense? Because of the cost of the Tech?

Diagem ,

Main target for low quality rough is fast processing . you need do 200-400 stones per day per scanner
For low quality rough It is not reasonable increase yield for 1-2% and in same time decrease time for operation in 2-5 times

Better lost on 1-2 stones from 10, than work with all 10 stones more slowly

Again better have standard processing on all cutting stages

There are 2 main business models :
1) standardization operations , fast processing, low labor cost.= decreasing expenses to increase profit
2) better adding value from each rough. ( usually expenses is much bigger: freedom for unique operation , high labor cost, expenses equipments , slow processing)

First is profitable for low cost rough, second for expensive rough

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/25/2008 3:34:50 AM
Author: Serg

Re: Serg..., why is OGi more suitable for low quality? Or how does it decrease expense? Because of the cost of the Tech?

Diagem ,

Main target for low quality rough is fast processing . you need do 200-400 stones per day per scanner
For low quality rough It is not reasonable increase yield for 1-2% and in same time decrease time for operation in 2-5 timesOK..., but low quality also means included rough..., how does OGI tackle this issue? You still depend on human intervention more than scanner..., no?

Better lost on 1-2 stones from 10, than work with all 10 stones more slowly

Again better have standard processing on all cutting stages

There are 2 main business models :
1) standardization operations , fast processing, low labor cost.= decreasing expenses to increase profit
2) better adding value from each rough. ( usually expenses is much bigger: freedom for unique operation , high labor cost, expenses equipments , slow processing)


First is profitable for low cost rough, second for expensive rough

 

[Serg]

re:OK..., but low quality also means included rough..., how does OGI tackle this issue? You still depend on human intervention more than scanner..., no?

For low cost rough ( Low quality is not correct) You can standardize OPERATOR work. Operator should check different standard solution follow strong methodic(step by step) using scanner and allocation software.

Very often 1-2 first steps are enough.

For costly rough you need 3-10 steps. Because after each step you have choice between at least 2 possibility( usually you have 3 and more possibility)

Game become a complex, you need very skilled operators , much more time and flexible software. Flexible software can not has very simple GUI, you need spend more time to educate operator,..

there are important difference between 1-2 steps games and 3-10 steps games.

In first type games you do not depend really from operator, much more important accuracy of scanner( reasonable level for your rough size) and speed to check standard solutions

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/25/2008 4:44:00 AM
Author: Serg

re:OK..., but low quality also means included rough..., how does OGI tackle this issue? You still depend on human intervention more than scanner..., no?

For low cost rough ( Low quality is not correct) You can standardize OPERATOR work. Operator should check different standard solution follow strong methodic(step by step) using scanner and allocation software.

Very often 1-2 first steps are enough.

For costly rough you need 3-10 steps. Because after each step you have choice between at least 2 possibility( usually you have 3 and more possibility)

Game become a complex, you need very skilled operators , much more time and flexible software. Flexible software can not has very simple GUI, you need spend more time to educate operator,..

there are important difference between 1-2 steps games and 3-10 steps games.

In first type games you do not depend really from operator, much more important accuracy of scanner( reasonable level for your rough size) and speed to check standard solutions

Thank you..., you are making sense!!!

 

[langchunWei]

Again on OGI¡¯s Technology With Computers and Experience

I have read some information of GIA, SARIN, OGI and OctoNus. Their technical achievements in recent years have encouraged me a lot. However, these achievements still have great differences from my study achievements such as technology with computer and theory. They cannot be mentioned in the same breath.
Human brains with experience, computers with experience, human brains with theory and computers with theory, these four are totally different operation patterns and also the four stages of historical progress. Human brain is obviously inferior to computer and experience inferior to theory. Thus, computers with experience is the best technology. Nevertheless, OGI''S new achievement pushed into market is "computers with experience", not "computers with theory". It is simply because OGI only had two choices which were "human brains with experience" and "computers with experience" during the decade of 1994 and 2004. What it faced was to choose one out of two, not one out of four. We did not announce these two opportunities before 2005.
Poeple have kept mannual operation pattern of human brains with experience for hundred years. Only a few years ago, people had the operation pattern of computers with experience. That is a progress, but still a progress on empiricism, not reaching scientific height, for OGI has not obtained the scientific theory, continuous functions and theoretical database for cutting. OGI merely has a experiential database. It is the certain operation of technology with computers and experience to cut a big raw material into several smaller ones and to cut the smaller raw materials into round shapes.


langchun wei
CEO

Haikou zuan cheng Technology Company Ltd.
Add: tower1, No.41 chengxi Road, Haikou , Hainan province, China
Tel: +86 0898-66961686,
Fax: +86 0898-66742480
Email: [email protected],
Website: www.dlstchina.com

 

[strmrdr]

"Human brain is obviously inferior to computer and experience inferior to theory."
BS meter pegged!
I am a computer programmer among other things and when it comes too deductive reasoning and making connections the computer is vastly inferior too the human brain.
The only experience a computer has is human experience programed into it.
Garbage in garbage out!

A computer can only go from point a to point b to point c as it was programed.
A Human brain can go from point a to point D which is a combination of point b and c that has never been thought of before.
No computer can do that!

 

[Serg]

Date: 2/26/2008 1:13:08 AM
Author: strmrdr
''Human brain is obviously inferior to computer and experience inferior to theory.''
BS meter pegged!
I am a computer programmer among other things and when it comes too deductive reasoning and making connections the computer is vastly inferior too the human brain.
The only experience a computer has is human experience programed into it.
Garbage in garbage out!

A computer can only go from point a to point b to point c as it was programed.
A Human brain can go from point a to point D which is a combination of point b and c that has never been thought of before.
No computer can do that!

Strmdr,
Sometimes programmers cannot understand why computer came to point J instead point C.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/26/2008 2:21:47 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 2/26/2008 1:13:08 AM
Author: strmrdr
''Human brain is obviously inferior to computer and experience inferior to theory.''
BS meter pegged!
I am a computer programmer among other things and when it comes too deductive reasoning and making connections the computer is vastly inferior too the human brain.
The only experience a computer has is human experience programed into it.
Garbage in garbage out!

A computer can only go from point a to point b to point c as it was programed.
A Human brain can go from point a to point D which is a combination of point b and c that has never been thought of before.
No computer can do that!

Strmdr,
Sometimes programmers cannot understand why computer came to point J instead point C.

that''s easy if your using an early intel pentium :} lol (math bug for those that dont know)

 

[langchunWei]

Third Comments on OGI¡¯s Technology With Computers and Experience

Making comments on OGI''s technology with computers and experience is just like making comments on products of the same kind from the organizations such as OctoNus and SARIN, because their products are on the same level, having no noticecable difference.
For OGI''s "computers with experience", I have said that it only accelerated the speed on destroying and waste when cutting diamond raw materials. OGI only can cut and process the round facets, so it just cut the big raw materials into two pieces, or three pieces or more pieces of smaller ones. We all feel sorry for this fact. OGI knows nothing about the cutting database on other facet shapes. In OGI''s technology with computers and experience, there is only one experiential database on round facets. It is also the only database in the world. As a high-tech product, computer is used for package to cover up the drawbacks of experience. What we put in computer''s brain is a experiential database. All it can do is to choose a item for a customer totally according to his instructions, just like a automat. OGI''s technology with computers and experience chooses certain experiential data from round facets experiential database for the technicians.
Someone said that OGI''s technology with computers and experience is computing the cutting data of raw materials. Beyond all doubt, this is a meaningless deceit, or a strained promotion. Because we cannot do inferential study without scientific theory and we cannot calculate without mathematical equations or mathematical functions. Experientical database just provides more choices.
What the automat changes is the service pattern, but not the products for choosing. We require to change the database for choosing, changing the experiential database to scientific theoretial database, or scientific cutting equations, or scientific cutting theory. We would not use the traditional experiential database. Just like replacing automat with ATM, we would like to replace "computers with experience" with "computers with theory", which is our difference from organizations such as SARIN, OGI and OctoNus. This is also the difference between science and empiricism.

Langchun wei
CEO

Haikou zuan cheng Technology Company Ltd.
Add: tower1, No.41 chengxi Road, Haikou , Hainan province, China
Tel: +86 0898-66961686,
Fax: +86 0898-66742480
Email: [email protected],
Website: www.dlstchina.com

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Dear langchunWei,

What comments would you like from us?

Until you can offer more than criticism, and show a better result, or spell out your idea so it is clear that a result can be gained, it is hard to participate.

Your statements do not seek discussion.
Until you show some way forward you have only provided negative results.

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/27/2008 10:24:25 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Dear langchunWei,

What comments would you like from us?

Until you can offer more than criticism, and show a better result, or spell out your idea so it is clear that a result can be gained, it is hard to participate.

Your statements do not seek discussion.
Until you show some way forward you have only provided negative results.

Couldnt have said that better....

 

[langchunWei]

My Research Achievements

My research achievements mainly contain three subjects.
¢ñ Subject on Scientific Theory, Continuous Functions and Theoretical Database for Cutting
I have established a scientific cutting theory. By applying this theory to studying the raw materials¡¯ cutting, we can determine various cutting shapes and continuous functions, for example, those for cutting the shapes as round, oval, drop-shaped, olivary, egg-shaped, emerald-shaped and so on. We also can work out some new cutting shapes such as ball-shaped facet. Several years ago, I attained a research achievement on ball-shaped facet by means of manual calculation and then got two vitreous facets with beautiful color. I named it as Eight-Trigrams Ball Facet. This is a scientific example proved by facts.

¢¡ Scientific Theory on Cutting
My success on round facet and on ball-shaped facet(eight-trigrams ball facet) are two achievements with significance of scientific factual proof. They prove that the cutting theory that I have established is a scientific theory.
To be simple, my cutting theory can study and solve the difficult problem on cutting shapes and cutting equations which has not been solved for a century.

¢¢ Continuous Functions on Cutting
First of all, please look at the first appendix which is a color picture of three-dimensional coordinates composed of Table Proportion, Crown Angle and Pavilion Angle. The cutting equation for round shapes is a continuous function on the three-dimensional coordinates. OctoNus thinks that there should be a continuous function, but nobody has got it. So, should the continuous function for round facets be a curved surface body? Or a curved surface? Traditional experiential database makes efforts towards these two directions all the time. However, my research achievements have proved that continuous functions should neither be a curved surface body nor a curved surface. It is just a curve.
Compared with my research achievements, the traditional database is so disordered, awful and inaccurate. Actually, people waste time again to devote so much time and money to the traditional database.

¢£ Theoretical Database on Cutting
Jasper Paulsen said, ¡°In the real world, extremely well cut diamonds are rare. Of course, it is almost impossible to make every diamond match just a single set of parameters. (www.FOLDS.net)¡± I have a totally opposite argument, ¡±In real word, every diamond raw material should have an excellent set of parameters only belong to itself. People completely can and should endeavor to establish this kind of single parameters for every diamond raw material in advance.¡± There is another sentence, ¡°We have already been able to establish that quite excellent single set of parameters for round-facet cutting, no matter symmetrical or non-symmetrical.¡±
As to the theoretical database for cutting round facets, I can declare again that you should make sure all the details for validating by yourself. You can determine several things, such as glass, data, equipments, technicians, time, places, lamp-houses, cameras, etc. We can satisfy and work in all your validating work so long as you sincerely want cooperation rather than thieving our information.

¢ò Subject on Intelligent Product-line and Intelligent Manufacturing
3D Computer Model has existed for 40 years, but it still stay in comparing the difference between human-eyes¡¯ detecting range and computer testing results. That is a disappointing result. Computer¡¯s brain has an omission where there is no theoretical theory for cutting. Thus, this 3D Computer Model has no reasoning and study abilities, and it can also has no thinking ability in continuous functions and cutting shapes.
If we put my cutting theory into computer¡¯s ¡°brain¡±, it can make the computer deal with scientific reasoning and study. That means computers can be totally intelligent. Intelligent Product-line and Intelligent Manufacturing which I have desired for a long time can both be realized.

¢ó Subject on Studying Cutting Quality Standard in Terms of Theoretical Research
I have introduced a pure theoretical concept, namely ¡°two ultimate standards¡±. Of course, I will call for purely theoretical reasoning and study. From of old, people studied cutting quality on facets all the times in experiential and summarizing ways which are typical tentative modes. GIA made 70,000 observations on 2300 diamonds¡¯ cut facets and established a grades standard system. It was such an example of typical tentative mode. Coincidently, these 3D Computer Model for observation once brought about two debates and (reputedly) GIA will spent 70 million US dollars in studying a better 3D Computer Model .
Certainly, the debates and the re-development of observation devices will not stop unless solving problems in pure theoretical study. The ultimate scientific goals people should pursue are ultimate and scientific research achievements attained in pure theoretical study.
Appendix (2 in total)
1. Graph from an essay named Analysis on Cutting of Bright Round Diamond, written by GIA¡¯S Doctor James E. Shigley


2. Graph from OctoNus¡¯ long thesis




langchun wei
CEO

Haikou zuan cheng Technology Company Ltd.
Add: tower1, No.41 chengxi Road, Haikou , Hainan province, China
Tel: +86 0898-66961686,
Fax: +86 0898-66742480
Email: [email protected],
Website: www.dlstchina.com

 

[langchunWei]

Appendix (2 in total)
1. Graph from an essay named Analysis on Cutting of Bright Round Diamond,
written by GIA¡¯S Doctor James E. Shigley

 

[langchunWei]

Appendix (2 in total)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 2/28/2008 12:17:15 PM
Author: langchunWei

My Research Achievements

This is a scientific example proved by facts.

Thank you, that was the best translation I have read of your work over the past year or two that you have communicated directly with me LW (is that AKA ok?)

You indicate that there have been actual gems cut that are the proven facts?

Is it possible to demonstrate them some way that will not result in ''thieveing''?
Otherwise we have no facts.

Personally I have long dreamed of each rough diamond having its own cut. Sergey has done a lot of work to make this more possible, but it is not an easy task.