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Parents, will you send your kids back to school in the fall?

S

SallyB

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I don’t have kids. I realize that many parents are having a difficult time with homeschooling or having their college kids at home. But I find it very upsetting to think how many innocent people will die because of the schools re-opening. It’s going to be a disaster in the U.S.

I understand that many people are only calculating the risks to their own children and their own families when deciding whether to send their kids back to school (which is very selfish IMO). Of those people, I ask, what if your child brings the virus home and it kills another family member? How do you think this might affect your child psychologically, knowing it might have been his or her fault that their mom/dad/ grandparent died? I may not have kids but I do know enough about child psychology to know that many will blame themselves. Not fair.
 
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Mekp

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We started homeschooling our kids a couple years ago so we are feeling very fortunate right now. My homeschooling groups are currently exploding in membership.

If our kids were still in the school system we would not be sending them back in September.
 

YadaYadaYada

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So our district just informed us that they will provide a virtual learning academy for the students whose parents do not feel comfortable sending them to school. So looks like parents will have a choice in our district.
This is what we are doing, CT has stated they will make temporary accommodations for distance learning. Whatever, I just know that I don't want them there for the start of school, what's the point when they may be closing it down again in 2 months.
 

lissyflo

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I don’t have kids. I find it very upsetting to think how many innocent people will die because of the schools opening. It’s going to be a disaster In the U.S.

I understand that many people are only calculating the risks to their own children and their own families when deciding whether to send their kids back to school (which is very selfish IMO). Of those people, I ask, what if your child brings the virus home and it kills another family member? How do you think this might affect your child psychologically, knowing it might have been his or her fault that their mom/dad/ grandparent died? I may not have kids but I do know enough about child psychology to know that many will blame themselves. Not fair.
But there may never be a vaccine for this. Do you stop properly educating children ad infinitum? I have personally seen both systems and online learning is a poor substitute for in-person teaching, even when done extremely well.

If children don’t go to school, no one progresses to university and there’s no flow through to a new batch of doctors in five/six years time. If there was a guaranteed vaccine in x months time, I’d agree with you. There isn’t. This could be our risk profile for years to come. Life is always a balance of compromises. Keeping children inside for potentially years on end is equally problematical for society as a whole: a whole generation of children with a propensity to rickets from lack of vitamin d and sun exposure; osteoporosis because their childhood bones didn’t receive the exercise stress that they need; antisocial personality disorders because they forgot how to share and compromise; heightened risk of suicide from isolation and fear. Who would you consider appropriate to allow out and for what purpose, and what timeline would you set? - if there’s no vaccine in 2 years, would you still hold the same view?
 

Mekp

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But there may never be a vaccine for this. Do you stop properly educating children ad infinitum? I have personally seen both systems and online learning is a poor substitute for in-person teaching, even when done extremely well.

If children don’t go to school, no one progresses to university and there’s no flow through to a new batch of doctors in five/six years time. If there was a guaranteed vaccine in x months time, I’d agree with you. There isn’t. This could be our risk profile for years to come. Life is always a balance of compromises. Keeping children inside for potentially years on end is equally problematical for society as a whole: a whole generation of children with a propensity to rickets from lack of vitamin d and sun exposure; osteoporosis because their childhood bones didn’t receive the exercise stress that they need; antisocial personality disorders because they forgot how to share and compromise; heightened risk of suicide from isolation and fear. Who would you consider appropriate to allow out and for what purpose, and what timeline would you set? - if there’s no vaccine in 2 years, would you still hold the same view?
And yet homeschoolers are doing just fine and have for a long time.

I'm fascinated by your association between antisocial personality disorder and non-institutionalized learning. Can you name your source?
 

elizat

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This is what we are doing, CT has stated they will make temporary accommodations for distance learning. Whatever, I just know that I don't want them there for the start of school, what's the point when they may be closing it down again in 2 months.
Our area in Florida is same.

In our house, dad has 50% custody and is usually one week on, one week off. Since covid, they agreed to do 3 month blocks basically. Mom kept him and did online school once it closed, then he came here and will be here until school starts.

You have a choice of full traditional school with masks required or online here.

She does not want him to go to school until there is a vaccine and all students, staff and teachers are vaccinated. It's her turn starting in August, so he's doing online for the term.

His mother also has said she will not return to the workforce until the entire country and the rest of the world is vaccinated. She will not work again unless the virus is eliminated or a vaccine is mandatory worldwide.
 

Gussie

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I am speaking only from seeing my own kids, ages 16, 13, and 11. They are all pretty depressed, especially my 13 yo daughter. I was completely for closing schools and even took my kids out a few days before the schools closed. While I am scared of school starting (this is Texas- it will start no matter what), I think that the isolation is causing a lot of mental health problems, much more than is being reported. I know there is not a perfect solution. I just hope that measures will be taken to keep the schools as safe as possible. If my kids were younger, I would probably keep them at home. Teens are a different breed though; their peer groups are very important for a whole life. Not sure I can deprive them of that even knowing the risk.
 
S

SallyB

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@lissyflo I’ve never seen a study that showed an association, let alone a causal relationship, between homeschooling and rickets or osteoporosis. And I didn’t say kids should stay inside the house 24/7. Take them outside to parks with masks and social distancing. They can even visit friends that way with parental supervision from a distance. No, it’s not ideal, but these are dangerous times.

I would suggest keeping all the schools closed for one full school year and then re-evaluating. But my educated guess is that most will open for a couple of months and then will be forced to close again, as others here have suggested. And if the state governments/districts don’t close them the teachers and staff will just walk out.
 
S

SallyB

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As much as I like going to parks, I would gladly give up doing so to free them up for parents with kids. Let the school districts reserve these open outdoor spaces.

Edit: This being the U.S., I realize the difficult legalities this would entail.
 
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1ofakind

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And yet homeschoolers are doing just fine and have for a long time.

I'm fascinated by your association between antisocial personality disorder and non-institutionalized learning. Can you name your source?
But homeschoolers choose to home school. For the most part (there are outliers) they are planned and prepared including social engagement as a strong and positive element, albeit often very different and diverse compared to public school kids.
The parents I know who were thrown into 'distant learning' say that has been an entirely different situation...and not a good one. Some parents are neglectful and abusive and won't educate thier kids at home even with distance learinging tools. Some are truly unable to accomplish it.
I know one parent who has a degree in special ed and was looking forward to this as a trial for their special needs daughter for home educating. It was a complete DISASTER. No way does she feel like she can educate her daughter well at home. Some of the teacher barely or never checked in on their classes the entire time....it is not working well for most. In short....send the kids back to school. Distance learning isn't working for everyone and the risk is very low to send them back.

I do agree that it is ridiculous to associate home school kids with personality disorders and rickets (that's a new one) but I am not sure OP was drawing that direct correlation. I assume they were talking about the current state of distance learning plus canceling of activities and social engagements that has developed in most states. That is not sustainable.
 
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Mekp

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But homeschoolers choose to home school. For the most part (there are outliers) they are planned and prepared including social engagement as a strong and positive element, albeit often very different and diverse compared to public school kids.
The parents I know who were thrown into 'distant learning' say that has been an entirely different situation...and not a good one. Some parents are neglectful and abusive and won't educate thier kids at home even with distance learinging tools. Some are truly unable to accomplish it.
I know one parent who has a degree in special ed and was looking forward to this as a trial for their special needs daughter for home educating. It was a complete DISASTER. No way does she feel like she can educate her daughter well at home. Some of the teacher barely or never checked in on their classes the entire time....it is not working well for most. In short....send the kids back to school. Distance learning isn't working for everyone and the risk is very low to send them back.

I do agree that it is ridiculous to associate home school kids with personality disorders and rickets (that's a new one) but I am not sure OP was drawing that direct correlation. I assume they were talking about the current state of distance learning that has developed in most states.
I do appreciate that COVID style home learning is nothing like actual homeschooling. TBH, COVID learning sounds very stressful, so I do understand that. My children both have autism, one has ADHD, one is legally blind and learning braille, and they are also both identified as gifted so I certainly understand our neurodivergent kiddos having different needs with learning.

I don't agree that the risk to sending kids back to school is "very low". COVID 19 is not well understood yet. I do not think the solution to difficulties with home learning is to make dangerous public health decisions.
 

lissyflo

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@lissyflo I’ve never seen a study that showed an association, let alone a causal relationship, between homeschooling and rickets or osteoporosis. And I didn’t say kids should stay inside the house 24/7. Take them outside to parks with social distancing
Nowhere did I say that homeschooling causes rickets or osteoporosis. Prolonged periods of time indoors, isolated, alone and with a sudden and enforced change to normal lifestyle (which is what you’re suggesting if children can’t go to school) are generally understood to correlate as risk factors to the conditions I mentioned. [And I very specifically stated antisocial personality disorders (lower case and plural) not APD (capitalised and singular), which therefore covers a whole spectrum of disorders ranging in severity from mild to severe.]

Your post said it’s selfish for people to send their children to school. I took the (to me) natural assumption that, if you’re saying children shouldn’t leave the house for schooling then what possible better reason is there for them to leave the house? Why do you consider it safe for children to mix while socially distanced and wearing masks in a park but not to mix while wearing masks and socially distancing in school? Isn’t school a better reason to leave the house than to play in the park? Why is educating the future generation of taxpayers selfish of parents but taking them to the park is considered fine?

I can’t quote specific studies - it’s general health awareness that lack of time outside and isolated can cause a range of physical and psychological problems - but I can guarantee you that, if schools were to fully shut for a year as you suggest, there would absolutely be studies in the future to assess the horrendous impact on an entire generation of children and therefore on society as a whole.

And why a year? What study have you based that time period on?
 

lissyflo

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I do agree that it is ridiculous to associate home school kids with personality disorders and rickets (that's a new one) but I am not sure OP was drawing that direct correlation. I assume they were talking about the current state of distance learning plus canceling of activities and social engagements that has developed in most states. That is not sustainable.
I absolutely agree that would be a ridiculous statement and it’s not at all what I said. It didn’t occur to me in a million years that the poster suggesting that parents are selfish for sending children to school would feel it was ok to take them to the park - I assumed (obviously incorrectly) that s/he meant a complete lockdown for children for an unspecified period of time, which would absolutely cause physical and psychological issues for many children.
 
S

SallyB

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@lissyflo I suggested a year because it’s slightly possible that things will be improved in a year. But certainly not by the start of the 2021 Spring semester.

There’s a much lower chance of viral transmission being outside in a park for an hour or two a day than inside a school for 7-8 hours a day. And kids need the outdoor time.

I am very troubled by the reports of increased domestic violence during lockdown and how this is affecting kids. But I think those households need much more help than just reopening schools. As for the kids in healthy households who are mildly depressed or lonely? This is difficult, but I don’t think others should have to die so that they can resume life as usual.

This isn’t South Korea or other countries where kids in school will obey social distancing/mask wearing guidelines. It just won’t work.
 

HS4S_2

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I have always home schooled so for my youngest she will continue with that and online college classes. My oldest 3 were in University and we may take a semester off and see how things are in January.
 
S

SallyB

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With that said, as a non-parent I’m going to get off this thread now before I’m booted off :))
 

Arcadian

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I don't have kids but I have to admit I'm torn. Let me explain why.

There's lots of kids out there who depend on school for a lot of reasons, some is to get at least a meal a day, some to escape abuse or neglect at home. And thats really went up since the virus took hold in the US.

Then there are those that are working to get scholarships in certain activities like track, football, etc, which requires group participation per their guidelines.

So again I get that too.


By the same token, should schools be open fully? Should there be a threat of missing out on funding if they're not? And should parents really pressure for schools to be open while there's a huge skyrocket of cases?

There will be parents who have no choice, they either take off work (basically they lose their jobs) if the schools stay closed or, illegally leave their (in some cases) young children at home while they work. Lots of single parents out there, and the kids being able to have somewhere safe to go (i.e., school) allows them to continue to work and make money.

Its a conundrum, one I don't think there's an easy answer to.

@SallyB you should stay, I think what you said (especially last post) was really valid. Listen, no one is going to like any answer out there. its a hard one to answer fully. No state was really prepared on this one either. I had mentioned DV in a thread which I didn't broach, but we have to face it, its happening, people are dying, and there's no support system for these people. Those with mental challenges are faced with it too with the type of isolation that we've been forced to be in.

There just not an easy answer for any of it in my book. theres going to be some unfortunate and very sad consequences of the continual shut down orders if we don't get it together.
 

1ofakind

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I absolutely agree that would be a ridiculous statement and it’s not at all what I said. It didn’t occur to me in a million years that the poster suggesting that parents are selfish for sending children to school would feel it was ok to take them to the park - I assumed (obviously incorrectly) that s/he meant a complete lockdown for children for an unspecified period of time, which would absolutely cause physical and psychological issues for many children.
I didn't think that is what you meant. ;-)
Yup. playgrounds are still closed here. Some parks are open but idk if kids under 16 can go yet. It seems if school is dangerous then those things would be as well.

As for distance learning 'difficulties'....that would be a best case scenario. Worst case is kids are not being fed, cared for or educated at all. For some kids school is a couple hours of safety/normalcy in an otherwise dangerous/dysfunctional life. The risks for those kids need to be considered with what current info seems to indicate (I understand it can change) that young kids are not prolific carriers or spreaders of the disease.

I think I heard one health official (I don't think it was a politician but can't recall) say that if schools remain closed then churches and non-profits should open their doors to the public for makeshift childcare/school etc. Let the kids go there instead. What?!?!? How is that any 'safer' than school?!?!
 

yennyfire

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I am speaking only from seeing my own kids, ages 16, 13, and 11. They are all pretty depressed, especially my 13 yo daughter. I was completely for closing schools and even took my kids out a few days before the schools closed. While I am scared of school starting (this is Texas- it will start no matter what), I think that the isolation is causing a lot of mental health problems, much more than is being reported. I know there is not a perfect solution. I just hope that measures will be taken to keep the schools as safe as possible. If my kids were younger, I would probably keep them at home. Teens are a different breed though; their peer groups are very important for a whole life. Not sure I can deprive them of that even knowing the risk.
I’m in GA (similar to TX-we have the option of in person or distance learning). As much as being back in a building with 1300 kids scares me, my 13 and 15 year old need the socialization. My 17 yo niece has been hospitalized for two weeks for anorexia as a result of isolation (she was 132 lbs at 5’7 on 3/16, down to 94 lbs on June 28th when she was admitted). There is no good answer. Risk exposure to Covid with all of the known and unknown long term effects or risk significant emotional issues related to isolation.

If I had young kids, I would keep them home, knowing that they would require lots of help with distance learning (and, a nightmare for working parents). I am incapable of helping my son with Span 3, Algebra II, AP World History and Chemistry. I just don’t think he can learn without daily lectures, the ability to ask questions and the group/lab work that happens in high school.

It’s such a mess. We’ve largely been home since 3/13, but many around us have behaved as if there’s no pandemic running rampant and have continued to have parties, gone to the gym, etc. I fear that there are darker days ahead here in the U.S. given our current environment. :cry2:
 

YadaYadaYada

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You know, I'm really not trying to be negative but I want to know who thought up a plan to have young children (like five to
eight) wearing masks all day at school and thought even for one second that it wouldn't be a logistical nightmare.

First of all, kids are curious, show me your mask, let me try on Tyler's so I can pretend I'm Tyler, the mask is falling off so they need to touch and fiddle with it. If before the pandemic you told parents "hey your kid is going to need to wear a mask all day and if they remove it or touch it they could get a lethal virus that could kill someone in your family" show me one parent who wouldn't think that was an insane expectation and pull their kids out.

These are young kids, they don't understand what's going on and despite what our school district suggested, being cheerful and getting them a super cool mask is going to last about five minutes before the novelty wears off. On top of that these school buildings get hot and there is no air conditioning, how are they going to be engaged in learning if they are so uncomfortable?!

I am so glad for parents who have an option and for school districts that are accommodating with distance learning, it's not for everyone but it's great to have a choice. Some kids need to be in school so I can empathize with parents who want to send them back or who need to for work. I believe most parents are doing the best they can and trying to make the best decisions possible all around.
 

nala

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I think these stats are reassuring to parents. Not necessarily to is teachers, lol. But I will say that if malls are open and many parents have been taking their kids there, they should be ok with going back to school. I see parents and kids shopping all the time and for the brief time that restaurants were dine-in, I saw that as well.
 
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Gussie

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@lissyflo I suggested a year because it’s slightly possible that things will be improved in a year. But certainly not by the start of the 2021 Spring semester.

There’s a much lower chance of viral transmission being outside in a park for an hour or two a day than inside a school for 7-8 hours a day. And kids need the outdoor time.

I am very troubled by the reports of increased domestic violence during lockdown and how this is affecting kids. But I think those households need much more help than just reopening schools. As for the kids in healthy households who are mildly depressed or lonely? This is difficult, but I don’t think others should have to die so that they can resume life as usual.

This isn’t South Korea or other countries where kids in school will obey social distancing/mask wearing guidelines. It just won’t work.
There are a lot of kids who are more than mildly depressed or lonely. Socialization is extremely important for all humans, especially children and adolescents. Mental health is very important and should not be minimized.

I think you mentioned that you don't have kids? Seeing one's children suffer is agonizing. If I choose to send them to school, I plan to take all health risks into account, including their mental health.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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I don’t have kids. I realize that many parents are having a difficult time with homeschooling or having their college kids at home. But I find it very upsetting to think how many innocent people will die because of the schools re-opening. It’s going to be a disaster in the U.S.

I understand that many people are only calculating the risks to their own children and their own families when deciding whether to send their kids back to school (which is very selfish IMO). Of those people, I ask, what if your child brings the virus home and it kills another family member? How do you think this might affect your child psychologically, knowing it might have been his or her fault that their mom/dad/ grandparent died? I may not have kids but I do know enough about child psychology to know that many will blame themselves. Not fair.
I don't have kids either so ill just answer your question
I would rather my child waa a,year behind at school and lived a long and healthy life, hopefully with the company of grandparents and other older loved ones
what's the average western life ?
75 - 80 years ?
What is one year ?
Its nothing
But it might just keep granny safe or someone else's granny

Kids take gap years before going to university that puts them a year behind their classmates anyway
 

YadaYadaYada

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I think these stats are reassuring to parents. Not necessarily to is teachers, lol. But I will say that if malls are open and many parents have been taking their kids there, they should be ok with going back to school. I see parents and kids shopping all the time and for the brief time that restaurants were dine-in, I saw that as well.
Nala with all due respect I don't think you can compare going to a mall
or out for a meal to being in a school building with hundreds of others for many hours a day several days a week. The risk at school in a closed building with kids who lets face it, are not the best with cleanliness far exceeds either of those.

For us, I take the kids out in public as little as possible, we ate a meal out on Father's Day, that's been it. No way am I sending them back in the fall but being honest it's mainly because I'm almost certain they will have to shutdown again soon after opening and it's just easier (and safer) for them to be at home.
 

nala

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@YadaYadaYada, some of us here on PS are rule followers—but I’m surrounded by beach cities and very entitled people who have not been quarantining since Mid-April! I’ve seen it for myself. Kids visit each other and families hang with each other all the time. And yet, those stats don’t reveal any frightening stats, imo. Maybe it’s still too soon.

also, we have great air conditioning in my school—I would be concerned if I was you as well. I don’t mean to minimize your concerns, but I posted that stats for my state bc I do believe this issue is being driven by the state and even local governments.
 
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mellowyellowgirl

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I don't have kids either so ill just answer your question
I would rather my child waa a,year behind at school and lived a long and healthy life, hopefully with the company of grandparents and other older loved ones
what's the average western life ?
75 - 80 years ?
What is one year ?
Its nothing
But it might just keep granny safe or someone else's granny

Kids take gap years before going to university that puts them a year behind their classmates anyway
The trouble is it might not be a year. It could be forever at this rate. The predominant risk here is that adults think the kids will pass on the disease and kill them so in some cases I feel like the argument is self serving from the adult perspective.

Also everyone has a very very very different acceptance of risk. I'm willing to bet that in another year there will be people who want everyone locked up for one more year and another year after that.

When will everyone be satisfied?

I'm still on the train of keeping kids away from their Grandparents if need be.

If you want to home school and have the personality for that kind of thing, have at it, keep your kids at home. In Australia you can get approval to home school pretty easily so no one will stand in your way if that's what you choose.

But for the parents who don't get a flying fig what happens to their kids and we need to cater for those kids. Kids who will be beaten and starved at home. Or just generally neglected. They are just as important as other lives.
 

YadaYadaYada

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@nala, I understand and it's unfortunate that people can't just follow the rules for a bit, it really does make a drastic difference in illness and death stats.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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The trouble is it might not be a year. It could be forever at this rate. The predominant risk here is that adults think the kids will pass on the disease and kill them so in some cases I feel like the argument is self serving from the adult perspective.

Also everyone has a very very very different acceptance of risk. I'm willing to bet that in another year there will be people who want everyone locked up for one more year and another year after that.

When will everyone be satisfied?

I'm still on the train of keeping kids away from their Grandparents if need be.

If you want to home school and have the personality for that kind of thing, have at it, keep your kids at home. In Australia you can get approval to home school pretty easily so no one will stand in your way if that's what you choose.

But for the parents who don't get a flying fig what happens to their kids and we need to cater for those kids. Kids who will be beaten and starved at home. Or just generally neglected. They are just as important as other lives.
Im just glad i don't have children to have to make these descions for

We don't have a history of school provided lunches here - a charity does now supply some needy school kids
i do feel sorry for kids who are going hungry because they arnt in school right now
school is back here
its almost school holidays again here
Gary's daughter who we love dearly was complaining about having the kids home again
which i honestly do not understand
i had a bit of a rocky relationship with my mum but both my parents enjoyed us being home and having holidays together
Melanie's cancer has got very serouse, but when my dad had terminal cancer he wanted to spend as much time as possible with my sister and i
i know nowdays lots of parents both have to work so its a financial thing but don't people still hang out as a family ?
 

mellowyellowgirl

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Im just glad i don't have children to have to make these descions for

We don't have a history of school provided lunches here - a charity does now supply some needy school kids
i do feel sorry for kids who are going hungry because they arnt in school right now
school is back here
its almost school holidays again here
Gary's daughter who we love dearly was complaining about having the kids home again
which i honestly do not understand
i had a bit of a rocky relationship with my mum but both my parents enjoyed us being home and having holidays together
Melanie's cancer has got very serouse, but when my dad had terminal cancer he wanted to spend as much time as possible with my sister and i
i know nowdays lots of parents both have to work so its a financial thing but don't people still hang out as a family ?
I have no horse in this race. My son is grade accelerated and still finding school super easy so it's frankly better for us to stay home. He's 3 years ahead and if left at home will be another year ahead by the end of the year!


DS7 has been helping the kids in his class since school resumed. It is concerning to him how many kids in yr 3 who haven't reached the minimum standards of literacy and numeracy. He says they were behind at the beginning of the year (when everyone was going to school normally) and now they're even more behind.

I get the argument that these kids could stay illiterate for another year and it won't matter but for how many years should they be sacrificed?

Are the kids back at school in NZ?
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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I have no horse in this race. My son is grade accelerated and still finding school super easy so it's frankly better for us to stay home. He's 3 years ahead and if left at home will be another year ahead by the end of the year!


DS7 has been helping the kids in his class since school resumed. It is concerning to him how many kids in yr 3 who haven't reached the minimum standards of literacy and numeracy. He says they were behind at the beginning of the year (when everyone was going to school normally) and now they're even more behind.

I get the argument that these kids could stay illiterate for another year and it won't matter but for how many years should they be sacrificed?

Are the kids back at school in NZ?
The kids went back once we went down to level 2 - maybe in june ? Ive lost track, but i don't think you have to send them back yet if you don't want to
while we were in lockdown was partically the school holidays, which gave teachers some time to get prepaired, then they had a channel on tv to keep young brains ticking over,

they did not seem to put a lot of pressure on kids or parents during lock down
The PM said it was more important to have happy families than arguments about school work

The bigger kids have had the amount of credits they need to earn for the year including for university entrance reduced and i think you can get a couple of credits for home 'learning' (not actual school work as such) from the whole lockdown thing

i do feel sorry for the kids who have learning problems, to be honest i hadn't thought of them till you mentioned it, because some kids don't get the help at home they need

for the record my parents spent lots of money on my spelling lessons and it did jack s#*t :mrgreen2:
 
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