Oh Girls :-(

[monarch64]

Date: 4/2/2009 2:47:16 PM
Author: decodelighted
Oh Musey ... you sweet, sweet enabler. Why not just start a new area called ''Delusional Echo Chamber'' and anyone who just wants to vent or get pats on the back goes there. Keep ''em good & segregated so their gooey ''u go girl'' bedtime whispers don''t rankle us grizzled shrews.

That''s the best idea I''ve EVER heard. It could be a whole subforum just like LIW or Healthy Lifestyle, or Shopping...

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 4/2/2009 2:47:16 PM
Author: decodelighted
Oh Musey ... you sweet, sweet enabler. Why not just start a new area called ''Delusional Echo Chamber'' and anyone who just wants to vent or get pats on the back goes there. Keep ''em good & segregated so their gooey ''u go girl'' bedtime whispers don''t rankle us grizzled shrews.

I thought this was the delusional echo chamber?

From now on, I''ll just post "egyptian, nothing more to add"

 

[musey]

Date: 4/2/2009 2:57:46 PM
Author: purrfectpear
From now on, I''ll just post ''egyptian, nothing more to add''

Wait, what?? haha

 

[princesss]

Date: 4/2/2009 3:01:38 PM
Author: musey

Date: 4/2/2009 2:57:46 PM
Author: purrfectpear
From now on, I''ll just post ''egyptian, nothing more to add''

Wait, what?? haha

De Nile.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 4/2/2009 3:01:38 PM
Author: musey

Date: 4/2/2009 2:57:46 PM
Author: purrfectpear
From now on, I''ll just post ''egyptian, nothing more to add''

Wait, what?? haha

I think maybe it has something to do with a river that runs through Egypt?

 

[musey]

Thanks, I guess I''m a bit slow today

 

[Pandora II]

Having been in CF''s shoes back in my early 20''s, I think it''s very hard for her to face these threads.

Part of it is looking for back-up that she''s not being stupid or shallow or unreasonable in what she wants and needs.

Part of it is looking for confirmation that it will all turn into a fairytale.

I''m sure I drove my very caring and well-meaning friends crazy for years. I just couldn''t or wouldn''t see what they were telling me. They picked up the pieces again and again, but I was far too in love with this totally unworth it man to take their advice. I would even convince myself that they were trying to break us up, or that they just couldn''t see how perfect he was (when he wasn''t been manipulative and emotionally abusive

) and how I just needed to sort x, y or z and he''d become Prince Charming. Some of them I treated appallingly because they wanted me to see what was so clear to them and that I was so totally blind to on a concious level and I even broke off friendships completely so I could continue to delude myself.

There are many of us here who have been following CF''s story for as long as she has been a member and if we didn''t care, we wouldn''t bother posting time and time again.

It is a bit frustrating when people who haven''t been here very long or who haven''t bothered to look back over past posts or both then jump in with comments that just enable the OP to cling to false hopes or to justify their partner''s behaviour. Not to say that people aren''t entitled to add their opinions, but to then jump on someone and accuse them of being malicious who does know all the background and who goes to the time and trouble to put the sort of post together than Freke did is really uncalled for.

I''m pretty sure that CF isn''t yet ready to leave or even to 100% face what so many of us here are seeing quite clearly, and it''s very hard to come back and admit that to people who have taken the time to show that they care.

It''s embarrassing and can make you feel as if people think you are a weak person. Having time, finances and emotions invested in a relationship for many years makes it even harder to make any kind of break - especially if you are not subject to definite no-no''s like physical violence, illegal behaviour or substance abuse. It''s easy to feel that you have just over-reacted, or to seize on the slightest positive remark or gesture on the part of the partner to justify staying.

If CF doesn''t come back and comment on what is written here, then that is fine by me. I do however hope she reads it and mulls over much of the advice, and I for one will still be here and still be happy to give my advice and my opinion if she needs to write another similar thread in a few weeks/months time.

I hate to see the pain and unhappiness that I see in her posts and wish only a truly happy ending for her not a compromise.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Ditto Pandora.

And musey is like a genius.

 

[tlh]

He could propose. He did say he''d propose in ''08... but when he said that he was under the spirits. Who''s to say he wasn''t telling her what she wanted to hear then... or was really feeling that?

I think that as long as she''s waiting for him to make the move w/o an honest discussion - and she is not being honest to herself, she''s putting her wants wishes and desires on the back burner - while paying close attention and meeting his needs up front. Choc - you just need to decide what is important - and be firm. If you want to be with him, on his terms.. then you''ll have to be okay with waiting on his terms. If you are not okay with waiting on his terms, you''ll have to be prepared to make a move on your terms. I wish you the best.

A watched pot never boils... but a pot left to simmer and not stirred is bound to have an eruption and leave gunk all over your range and microwave.

 

[chocolatefudge]

Ladies I cannot believe the response to this thread!! Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful replies. Sorry I didn''t get back sooner, I''ve been really busy and haven''t been on here.

Firstly, nothing that has been said has offended me in the least. I came on here for advice and have appreciated EVERY response, both the ones telling my my boyfriend is a selfish idiot and the ones telling me to hang in there. Freke, thank you for taking the time to post my history, it was very interesting for me to look back on!! It was so strange and like reading about someone else! It made me feel sad but also a bit like a celebrity and so I was also smiling while reading it, but that could just be because I''m weird....

I can''t believe I have gotten myself into this mess, but then on the other hand, the picture I''ve painted of my boyfriend on here is sooooo different to who he actually is. I think that is the hardest part for me, I know how loving and caring he is, but reading through my past threads on this site I can also see the other side to him that is not good at all! However, as I''ve never read through each of his ''lies'' in a row like that I never ''saw'' him as that person. If that''s making sense??

I keep beginning to write things and then deleting them because they aren''t sounding right. I want to say that I am in a very happy relationship aside from the engagement problems, but as someone has pointed out, I can''t be THAT happy with things as they are.... Not really sure what to say! Have just been considering my boyfriend Freke''s post of my history to show him exactly how I''ve been feeling, but not sure if that would help at all.

Ladies thank you so much again!! You know I am not one who is easily offended, and I will definitely not be offended by people giving advice that I have asked for. A special thanks to you Freke!

The only post the riled me slightly was the one about my mortgage. It sounded as though I had gone somewhere very dodgy to borrow so much money when in fact I went to a large bank in England and it was one of many who offered me that much- in fact we could have borrowed a lot more had we wished. Properties cost a lot more in the UK than the US.

 

[FrekeChild]

((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Hi chocolatefudge! I'm glad to see you back. I really do look forward to your posts, and I wish you'd post more often. So you should stop by more...

 

[tlh]

welcome back CF! HUGS!

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/2/2009 3:07:13 PM
Author: musey
Thanks, I guess I''m a bit slow today

lol I didn''t get it either-guess we''re both a little slow today

Delighted to see you back CF. You know that we all want the best for you and are always here.

 

[brooklyngirl]

CF, I hope you post more often as well, and I'm glad that Freke's post made you see another side of your BF.

I suppose I don't see any harm in showing him your history, but please understand, that it WON'T change his mind about this. You cannot guilt a man into commitment, even if you show him in black and white how wrong he is. In the end, he has to want to marry you out of love, not obligation and remorse over his behavior.

I hope that whatever happens results only in your happiness. You deserve it, but only you can get your self to a happy place.

*Edited for grammar.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 4/2/2009 2:57:46 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 4/2/2009 2:47:16 PM
Author: decodelighted
Oh Musey ... you sweet, sweet enabler. Why not just start a new area called 'Delusional Echo Chamber' and anyone who just wants to vent or get pats on the back goes there. Keep 'em good & segregated so their gooey 'u go girl' bedtime whispers don't rankle us grizzled shrews.

I thought this was the delusional echo chamber?

From now on, I'll just post 'egyptian, nothing more to add'

OMG! DECO YOU OWE ME (actually my company) A NEW SCREEN!!!

CF, glad to see you back!

 

[Dreamgirl]

choco- I truly hope that whatever happens, it will be nothing but happiness for you!

 

[Patiently_Waiting]

Date: 4/2/2009 4:23:58 PM
Author: Dreamgirl
choco- I truly hope that whatever happens, it will be nothing but happiness for you!

Ditto - CF no matter what you decide I wish nothing but the best for you. *hugs*

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Look, Musey''s solution is not perfect, but it at least addresses some of the issues with this forum. People come here for advice, and a large majority of us are not professional counselors. But a lot of people don''t understand that if you say certain things, they are going to stop listening and either find someone elce to talk to, or even worst, if there is no one, isolate themselves. Statements like "Leave him" or "he is no good" might be honest, but not effective things to say when trying to help someone. The truth is that people do not like to be told what to do, and if love is involved, will do illogical things. Love defies logic.

There is something called the changes of change, and a person moves through them when trying to change their behavior. I learned this for smoking counseling. I cannot tell a person to stop smoking who sees no problems with it, that is not effective, and it is judgmental. They will probably never come to see me again. However, I can maybe point out to them that their smoking is contributing to their child''s asthma, and get them in the mind set that it is bad. What musey is trying to do in her own way is figure out what people want so their advice can be given that they will actually listen to and not run away from. If you would like to learn more about the stages of change, I would be happy to start another thread.

 

[Gypsy]

I would LT. I think it would help out a lot of people!

 

[Miscka]

I vowed to stay out of this, but here I am.

I actually have a totally different concern for you, CF. I am worried that if he ever does propose, etc. that it will either:

a) be because you talked him in to it.
or
b) will always make you feel like you talked him into it, looking back.

Can you erase these YEARS of painful hoping for something that keeps getting farther and father away? Can you imagine a happy life with a man who puts your priorities behind his, and may or may not really love you the way you deserve/want the same things you do? Will you have these same issues deciding when to have kids, etc?

Hugs, I really do wish you the best.

ETA: Ltl, I would! Very interesting.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Date: 4/2/2009 4:47:21 PM
Author: Gypsy
I would LT. I think it would help out a lot of people!

Alright, I will start a new thread. I want the information to be factually accurate, so it will take a little time.

 

[NakedFinger]

Date: 4/2/2009 3:48:52 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
Ladies I cannot believe the response to this thread!! Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful replies. Sorry I didn't get back sooner, I've been really busy and haven't been on here.

Firstly, nothing that has been said has offended me in the least. I came on here for advice and have appreciated EVERY response, both the ones telling my my boyfriend is a selfish idiot and the ones telling me to hang in there. Freke, thank you for taking the time to post my history, it was very interesting for me to look back on!! It was so strange and like reading about someone else! It made me feel sad but also a bit like a celebrity and so I was also smiling while reading it, but that could just be because I'm weird....

CF- I am SOO glad to see you back and that you weren't scared off. Thank you for showing your maturity and intelligence, and reading the posts that these women have taken the time to and effort to write, and taking everything to heart, rather than throwing a hissy fit, getting defensive and threatening to stay off the site. Again, this is a forum to which we all come to seek advice and should be taken as such. Only you know what is best for you, but as you said, sometimes seeing it from others' perspective, and getting the wisdom from women all over the word, helps you see things you didn't realize.

Whatever you decide, I hope it's what you feel in your heart is the right thing, that you realize all women deserve to be treated like queens, and that we will all be here to support you . I wish you perpetual happiness in your future (whatever that may entail).

 

[fuzzers]

I ditto NakedFinger. Chocolatefudge, you are a class act.

Your threads were some of the first I read on this site, and I was encouraged to join shortly after. I too am hoping the best for you, and have been for a while. We all are!

 

[Winks_Elf]

Date: 4/2/2009 3:48:52 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
The only post the riled me slightly was the one about my mortgage. It sounded as though I had gone somewhere very dodgy to borrow so much money when in fact I went to a large bank in England and it was one of many who offered me that much- in fact we could have borrowed a lot more had we wished. Properties cost a lot more in the UK than the US.

I made that post, and apologize if it was read the wrong way. In the US, from what I''ve seen through personal experience over the past 8 years, mortgage companies want their borrowers paying out more than 25-30% of their net monthly income for a mortgage payment. In other words, if my fiance and I bought a home together, and our combined income per month was $9,000 per month, we should not be paying more than $2,250-$3,000 per month for our mortgage. Staying within those parameters *should* result in not having to struggle to pay the house payment, and hopefully the utilities aren''t too expensive either. Part of the reason our housing situation is so dire over here is that companies referred to as "preditory lendors" actually encouraged people to purchase homes that were out of their financial comfort zone. That''s why so many homes have been foreclosed.

In no way did I mean you went to a loan shark or some other seedy place. I apologize if I''ve offended you.

 

[decodelighted]

Though I bristle at the term ... you''re a Class Act, Choc. Fudge! Glad you''re doing okay & absorbing all the advice a bit at a time. Every poster here wishes you enduring happiness but its clear you already know that.

 

[mrscushion]

I''m glad you came back to reply, chocolatefudge. Your response was admirably classy, as others have pointed out. I wish you the very best, no matter what you decide.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/2/2009 4:37:39 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
Look, Musey's solution is not perfect, but it at least addresses some of the issues with this forum. People come here for advice, and a large majority of us are not professional counselors. But a lot of people don't understand that if you say certain things, they are going to stop listening and either find someone elce to talk to, or even worst, if there is no one, isolate themselves. Statements like 'Leave him' or 'he is no good' might be honest, but not effective things to say when trying to help someone. The truth is that people do not like to be told what to do, and if love is involved, will do illogical things. Love defies logic.

There is something called the changes of change, and a person moves through them when trying to change their behavior. I learned this for smoking counseling. I cannot tell a person to stop smoking who sees no problems with it, that is not effective, and it is judgmental. They will probably never come to see me again. However, I can maybe point out to them that their smoking is contributing to their child's asthma, and get them in the mind set that it is bad. What musey is trying to do in her own way is figure out what people want so their advice can be given that they will actually listen to and not run away from. If you would like to learn more about the stages of change, I would be happy to start another thread.

Just to clarify, my 'idea' was one born mostly of sarcasm, with a titch of desperation. I have no illusions that such a 'system' would actually solve the fluff vs. honesty issues the LIW forum seems to find itself faced with so very often, but I surely wouldn't fight against the attempt!

Just for the record.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Date: 4/2/2009 8:25:02 PM
Author: musey

Date: 4/2/2009 4:37:39 PM

Author: LtlFirecracker

Look, Musey''s solution is not perfect, but it at least addresses some of the issues with this forum. People come here for advice, and a large majority of us are not professional counselors. But a lot of people don''t understand that if you say certain things, they are going to stop listening and either find someone elce to talk to, or even worst, if there is no one, isolate themselves. Statements like ''Leave him'' or ''he is no good'' might be honest, but not effective things to say when trying to help someone. The truth is that people do not like to be told what to do, and if love is involved, will do illogical things. Love defies logic.


There is something called the changes of change, and a person moves through them when trying to change their behavior. I learned this for smoking counseling. I cannot tell a person to stop smoking who sees no problems with it, that is not effective, and it is judgmental. They will probably never come to see me again. However, I can maybe point out to them that their smoking is contributing to their child''s asthma, and get them in the mind set that it is bad. What musey is trying to do in her own way is figure out what people want so their advice can be given that they will actually listen to and not run away from. If you would like to learn more about the stages of change, I would be happy to start another thread.

Just to clarify, my ''idea'' was one born mostly of sarcasm, with a titch of desperation. I have no illusions that such a ''system'' would actually solve the fluff vs. honesty issues the LIW forum seems to find itself faced with so very often, but I surely wouldn''t fight against the attempt!


Just for the record.

Sorry, totally missed that....oops

 

[supergirl10]

I made that post, and apologize if it was read the wrong way. In the US, from what I''ve seen through personal experience over the past 8 years, mortgage companies want their borrowers paying out more than 25-30% of their net monthly income for a mortgage payment. In other words, if my fiance and I bought a home together, and our combined income per month was $9,000 per month, we should not be paying more than $2,250-$3,000 per month for our mortgage. Staying within those parameters *should* result in not having to struggle to pay the house payment, and hopefully the utilities aren''t too expensive either. Part of the reason our housing situation is so dire over here is that companies referred to as ''preditory lendors'' actually encouraged people to purchase homes that were out of their financial comfort zone. That''s why so many homes have been foreclosed.


In no way did I mean you went to a loan shark or some other seedy place. I apologize if I''ve offended you.

Yeh I was wondering about that when you posted Melissa

I''m fairly sure that most other countries have fairly strict rules about the lending ie generally 25% deposit, 15% deposit at a minimum depending on loan of course. I know that in Australia it is very hard to get a loan above your means. When we went to the bank (we actually did this first before house hunting so we knew what we could afford)

they gave us an amount and we could absolutely not borrow over that, and that is a fairly standard practice in Australia and has never really been any different. They even incorporated in the fact that I would begin work next year after graduation, but most likely stop within 5 years to have a child and could we still repay the loan on his income alone.

The only time i have ever know people to not be able to repay loans is if they got retrenched,changed to a lower paying job or had a serious family ilness or death or something like that.

Us aussie are a bit tight with our money lol

 

[arjunajane]

Wow, I hardly come over here - I guess I''ve been missing all the meaty stuff!

Choc fudge, I found it exhausting just reading Freke''s cut n paste of your last couple years -
I can only imagine how emotionally draining this constant to-ing and fro-ing is for you IRL.

I am going to add my voice to the chorus that may or may not just be ignored - but nonetheless,
here I go..
you have a basic question to ask yourself, and then a not so simple decision to make :

Can you live with this man without ever getting married?
If the Honest answer is no, you need to start looking at how to get out, because he is not going
to ask you.
I''m sorry, but if he wanted to *truely* he would have already.

Whether you can pester and convince him into proposing and then marrying you is another topic -
I will hazard that it is possible, if you put in another couple years hard yards - but is that really a life that any woman wants??!!