Oh Girls :-(

[LaurenThePartier]

The writing''s on the wall, here.

CF, I hope everything is better for you today, but quite honestly, given your past history and all of your posts from the last 18 months, I''d bet dollars to donuts that you''re going to be stuck in the same pattern, over and over again.

I wonder, in all of your discussions over marriage, has your SO ever said he "Can''t wait to be married to you"? I think that a man who really, really wants to marry you, to make you happy, even despite his own misgivings about marriage, would have at least offered the question by now, even if finances weren''t there for him.

I''m sooooo sorry you''re going through this, but you are the only person who can make this stop. ((((HUGS))))

 

[MonkeyPie]

Wow. Freke did quite an update. I am all caught up now.

My only question is this - how badly will it affect your credit to bail on this mistake of a house?

ETA: That was not meant to sound as mean as it does - just an honest question.

 

[brooklyngirl]

CF, I'm so sad to see yet another post like this from you. In all of the posts about your relationship, all I've read is how BF wants something (house, wait for marriage, surprise you with a ring, a certain type of ring, etc.) that goes against what you want (marriage first and foremost), and your wants ALWAYS take a backseat.

All of these things he says about surprises, and rings, are bull$h!t, and you keep falling for it, even after 5 years of active waiting. You say that your relationship is wonderful, except for the marriage issue, but I really don't see how that can be true. Your BF is disrespecting you big time, not by refusing to marry you, but by not being honest with you, and then getting *angry* with you for mentioning something that you have been awaiting for *years, calling you *psychotic* (seriously, psychotic, I wish you would have left that instant!). I think you are so preoccupied with the wait, that you don't even see the all the other things that make you unhappy.

You keep wasting your time, and health doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. You keep thinking that doing what he wants will make him propose, and it won't. It will just get him what he wants.

I beg you, for once, do what is right for YOU. You want marriage, and that nothing to be ashamed of, but you have to go out there and find someone who feels the same way. Why spend your life with someone who can't be bothered to give you the one thing you've asked for?

If I were you, I'd be looking for ways to dump the house, along with the guy living in it.

The point of this post was not to be mean, but to give you a dose of truth, as I'm sure many other posters have done. If my best friend or sister were in you situation, this is what I would tell her.

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

wow. I just read Freke''s post. wow.


I will say that I''ve read the things I wrote about my LDR with SO from several years ago, and it wasn''t pretty. I''d hate to think that someone would base their idea of our relationship now off of what I wrote four years ago. However, it does not appear that these posts are from a different phase of their relationship. It rather appears that it is one continuous story of a self-centered, petulant manipulator.

I''m sorry CF. This guy may love you in his own way, but this is not the type of love you or any other person deserves. Even if you are not ready to leave or set your own internal deadline for a leave date, please please please begin looking into the financial and legal possibilities for getting out of the mortgage agreement. It is good to know your options.

 

[Aloros]

CF, I''m so sorry things have taken this sort of turn

Have you thought about exactly how long you''d be willing to wait for this man? When is enough enough? How many more years? You want to start a family - where does that fit into this timeline? Even if he finally does propose and you get married, what happens if he drags his feet on starting a family too? Will you lose your chance to have children?

He has kept you waiting for eight years. His reaction to you bringing up marriage should be apologetic, not angry. OF COURSE you''re tired of waiting! He''s promised things that haven''t happened, over and over again. He has no right to be angry.

He wants to buy a house. He wants the proposal to be a surprise. He wants to purchase the ring himself. He wants to buy a new car.

What about what YOU want?

I''m just not seeing the compromise or the compassion here. Take care of yourself, CF. You may not be ready to leave, but I think it''s important to take a long, hard look at where your life with this man has gone and where it may be headed. As other posters have noted, there seems to be a pattern to his actions.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 4/1/2009 2:28:15 PM
Author: Aloros
CF, I''m so sorry things have taken this sort of turn

If only things HAD turned. Sadly: same old same old.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 4/1/2009 1:36:23 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 4/1/2009 12:25:19 PM
Author: lucyandroger
But CF''s SO just bought a house with CF 3 MONTHS ago!!! Maybe all his scrimping and saving went into buying the house. I think there must have been a break down in communication about priorities here. If you''re putting every cent you have into a house (which CF said was more than they thought they would be able to afford), then you can''t ALSO put every cent towards an engagement ring. You can''t have everything all at once!

Plus, the guy had to borrow money for groceries this month...he''s clearly having financial issues.

Have you read the history here?


And that brings us to present day and this topic.

CF reading through all of that, I can''t help but to feel like you''re being played with like a yo-yo. He gets your hopes up and then later they come crashing down. It was so hard to read, I can''t even imagine what you''re going through...

Thanks for the history Freke.

CF, I think it''s time for you to put your priorities first. At this point I would give him a firm deadline and stick to it. If he doesn''t come through, it''s time to leave. It may be more difficult now that you own a house together but it''ll be a lot less difficult than 8 more years of this kind of pain.

 

[happydreams]

Woah!!! I didn''t even read this whole thread but Freke, what you did was pretty mean.
You basically embarressed Chocolate by going through all the posts, picking out the bad ones and bolding the highlights.
I felt embarressed/bad for CF seeing it there. Seriously, was it necessary?

 

[happydreams]

I do see that you did it to make a point, but I just don''t think it was cool.

 

[redfaerythinker]

Happydreams- I don''t think that Freke did what she did to be mean. I think that she did it to catch people up on the history, and hopefully to show CF what she might not have been able to see herself. I do know that Freke is not a malicious person, in any way. She only wants the best for the lovely ladies on these forums.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 4/1/2009 3:25:58 PM
Author: happydreams
Woah!!! I didn't even read this whole thread but Freke, what you did was pretty mean.
You basically embarressed Chocolate by going through all the posts, picking out the bad ones and bolding the highlights.
I felt embarressed/bad for CF seeing it there. Seriously, was it necessary?

Wow. Talk about misinterpreting what I did. By no means was that done out of malice. It was done, as RFT said, to inform all of the people who don't know the history of this relationship of what has been written here.

In fact, every time I see a post from Chocolatefudge, who has been here a couple months longer than myself, I hope like #ell for the best, but have come over the past year to expect the worst. I'm often relieved when there does seem to be a breakthrough in their relationship, but as you can read, it's often followed by another huge disappointment for her. And that hurts me because I think she deserves the very best.

I did not go through all of her posts-only the threads she started, and I copied and pasted relevant parts (excluded threads she started just to chat, or the one about her best friend's mother--which just about tore me to pieces, thank you very much) that talked about her relationship. I did not intentionally leave out any happy posts, of which there weren't many, but that is part of human nature--when you're happy, you're too busy being happy to tell people about it. When you're sad or upset, you want to talk to other people about it. That's just how it goes. And it happens all of the time in the LIW forum.

That was NEVER meant to humiliate CF. I think extremely fondly of her since we came here around the same time, and I look forward to her threads to hear how she's doing.

It was meant exclusively to put all of the history in one place for the people who haven't been here long enough to have read it when it was posted. If you want to see the same words, not taken out of context, all you have to do is go to her profile and click on the link with "see all topics this person has started" or whatever, and you will see that there wasn't much that was left out.

 

[tlh]

CF can comment if the post from Freke was mean. Sometimes people need to look into a mirror before the truley recognize their own pain. It is really easy for people to forget "the bad times" and only remember the good. That is why people get back together with exes, only to see the same issues re-surface. I personally do not think what Freke did was mean. I think she took A LOT of time and effort to find the posts CF made, to show CF that they are going in a circle, and I think she did so because she CARES.

CF. The thing I keep seeing is - marriage is not important to your SO. It just isn''t. But what I saw, actually because of FREKE, was that he does recognize that it IS important to YOU. I am usually not one to encourage waiting... however, he does have a point... sorta. The house prices fell and you could get a house... now you are in it. The fact that you singed the dotted line on the morgage ties you both together. i would approach things in a much different way than the ladies have suggested. I would be HONEST with yourself and him.

"SO, I have given you everything you''ve wanted. I have sacraficed, shifted my own priorities, and moved deadlines to make you happy. Is it so hard to make me happy? I want to be married... and I will not budge on this. Do not lie to me about something that is so important to me. If we do not get married by the end of the year - I will leave you with the house and the morgage that YOU so desperately wanted, and YOU can figure out how to pay for it...."

Or whatever you''re feeling. Just be honest with each other. HUGS!

 

[Winks_Elf]

Wow. I just got done reading the posts Freke pulled up (and honestly, I think it is a good thing that she did...it is way too easy to call sweet lemons and sour grapes). I cannot even imagine how aweful CF must feel.

If it were me, I''d be having a good long cry after reading this thread (and it is very obvious the ladies here care for you, CF, or we would not be on page 3 of this thread!), taking a long hot bath, THEN I''d be packing my clothes, calling a barrister, and dumping him on his chickencrap a$$!

Your man is playing you. He has no intention of ever marrying you. And believe me, if you leave him, he''ll pull the crying routine, promise you the world, and NOTHING will change. He''s had the milk for free so many years now, there''s no point to paying for the cow. Do you really want to be waiting around for another 8 years while the best years of your life while away? What about children? What about 20th wedding anniversary? Not 20 years of LIVING TOGETHER without a ring!

Sometimes it is very difficult to see the storm you''re in when you''re sitting in the core of a tornado. Other people can see what position you are in, but you can''t. Good luck.

 

[Winks_Elf]

Oooh, I just thought of something...he wants "his freedom" so badly? Well, if that''s the case give it to him...and don''t "give him any" anymore. Get dolled up, call some of your gal friends, and start going out on Saturday nights...perhaps don''t come home until midday on Sunday.

Since he doesn''t want to tie the knot, let him know you have no problem casting out your line.

 

[fieryred33143]

I don''t know if its the extra hormones or what but I copied and pasted everything Freke posted onto word, read the entire thing, and started crying. I feel so hurt for you. Its one thing to remember bits and pieces of someone''s story and another to just see it all in a timeline.

CF, I just really hope you start putting your happiness first. For once.

 

[choro72]

HappyDreams, what Freke did was a much needed wake up call for CF, and update for people who comment on her situation without knowing the background. Not mean at all.

CF, I, and I think everyone here, only wish the best for you. Good luck.

 

[NakedFinger]

chocolatefudge- I've said before, I've been following your story and was so excited when you brought up you bf talking about buying the ring. So it is upsetting to hear the lack of progress.

I have stayed quiet with the last few pages of posts, and have just been reading the posts. Because I know all this coming at you at once, and having so many people bashing the person you love (even if it is for your own best interest) I'm sure is very overwhelming. Again, I am not going to say stay or leave, because you are the only person that can decide that. I just wanted to make a few comments that may help:

1) I dont think Freke's post was ill intentioned or should be misconstrued as such. While it seemed like a lot to take all at once, I think the fact that she did that is helpful. Sometimes, when you love someone, its easy to forget things or look past things. Sometimes it takes seeing everything all together, black and white, right in your face, to realize what you may have been overlooking. So read what she took the time to do and put together, and see how you feel about it.

2) I am going to go against what the majority are saying, and not instantly say you need to leave him. I forget how old you are, I think you said 26? The reason I ask, is because my SO and I are just now getting engaged (he has the ring, waiting for the question

) and have been together 8 1/2 years. But we started dating at 16. So even though we knew we wanted to get married very early on, in my opinion the first 7 years werent LIW-status because there was no way we were getting married at 18, 19 20, 21, etc. We just felt it was too young, now I am 24 going on 25, and feel like its not too young now. So if you similar, you cant really have everyone base off the "8 year" thing, because so much of it may have been teenage dating. Now if you are 30, and have been dating since 22, then I would feel differently. What SO and I DID do is by the house together first. It was a choice we both decided was better. Too many people who know get married, and then are renting a studio together because they spent the money on the ring/wedding first and then didnt have enough money for a down payment. It was important to use to establish a down payment, have a home, and then see what we could afford in terms of ring/wedding. So I am not going to knock you for getting a house with him before engagement like many others, because to me, that is the smart thing to do if you are both comfortable with it, and KNOW you are getting engaged soon after. (Plus, too many people I know as well, jumped into getting engaged without living together, without knowing whether they could cohabitate, handle bills, keeping a home, etc, and then got divorced 6 months to a year after moving in together). My point is, BOTH of us were going with buying the house before engagement. Now thats all settled, the ring will come soon. Your SO does have a point with jumping on the market opportunities, which was very smart. But it does sound like the house, wait for engagement thing, was all his idea, which is the part that worries me. If you werent ok with that, he shouldnt have proceeded, and you shouldnt have gone along with it. Clearly it is something that is VERY important to you, and the complete disregard your feelings is the "warning: proceed with caution" part.

ETA: I dont mean to compare relationships, Im just trying to say it would be a HUGE difference if you told him you were ok with waiting on engagement, ok with getting the house first, ok with him taking time to save because you wanted a specific type of ring, etc. But it doesnt seem like you were ok with ANY of it. It seems like it is all HIS idea, and what he says goes. Again that is the part that worries me, and makes me think he is stringing you along and it isnt happening.

 

[Rhea]

Date: 4/1/2009 4:36:41 PM
Author: fieryred33143
I don''t know if its the extra hormones or what but I copied and pasted everything Freke posted onto word, read the entire thing, and started crying. I feel so hurt for you. Its one thing to remember bits and pieces of someone''s story and another to just see it all in a timeline.


CF, I just really hope you start putting your happiness first. For once.

I did the same thing and I''m not hormonal.

 

[happydreams]

that is true - it is not my topic/thread to comment on. we''ll let CF be the judge.

 

[janinegirly]

I don't think Freke's post had malicious intentions--sometimes we need to see our own words to remind us of our cycles. Otherwise these situations lead to excuses/denial (its human nature when you want something so badly) and even more wasted time. It is sooooo hard to see though when you're in it.

I feel badly for CF, and I remember days when I was so frustrated but trapped by the constant promise of it happening soon. And it eventually did (gosh, remember those days New England,...ugh!).

But there are some differences. I never would have bought a house..and now you have kind of unwittlingly given him permission to continue this pattern (you didn't put your foot down, so he knows you always stick around). Also my BF at the time was showing real signs of saving money, researching, although very very quiet about it.

I don't want to pile on. I've been through the frustration. There are things you can do. Maybe tell him you're okay with a zirconia or a simple band until he can afford the real thing (assuming you can live with it indefinitely b/c I'm not sure he's the kind to follow through, but at least you'd have a ring and movement). That way you are calling his bluff. Then tell him this is killing you, broken your spirit and you cannot continue like this anymore. Say you will be moving out by the end of the month unless he wakes up. Then start making the plans to do so making the assumption he will NOT come through. He can find a roommate (or you can for him) in that time to help cover the mortgage. You need to see life without him and vice versa. Only then will you know if this is the guy or not. No one should have to be an LIW for 5 yrs (note: not saying no one should date for 5 yrs, just not be an LIW meaning wanting to be engaged).

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 4/1/2009 4:43:50 PM
Author: NakedFinger
I am going to go against what the majority are saying, and not instantly say you need to leave him. I forget how old you are, I think you said 26? The reason I ask, is because my SO and I are just now getting engaged (he has the ring, waiting for the question

) and have been together 8 1/2 years. But we started dating at 16. So even though we knew we wanted to get married very early on, in my opinion the first 7 years werent LIW-status because there was no way we were getting married at 18, 19 20, 21, etc. We just felt it was too young, now I am 24 going on 25, and feel like its not too young now.

Thank you NF for sharing your story.

However, there is a big difference between you and CF. You see, you knew from early on that you wanted to be with him forever but you also knew you weren''t ready. And when you and your boyfriend finally did feel ready after 8 years of dating, he went out and bought you a ring.

CF has spent the last 5 years being ready. Her boyfriend has spent those 5 years telling her that he doesn''t have the money, rather buy a house, and isn''t bothered with marriage. And now with just days away from their 8 year anniversary, there is no ring and no question. It''s just a nother year of not having money, having too many expenses with the house, and not being bothered with marriage.

 

[NakedFinger]

Date: 4/1/2009 4:52:32 PM
Author: fieryred33143

Date: 4/1/2009 4:43:50 PM
Author: NakedFinger
I am going to go against what the majority are saying, and not instantly say you need to leave him. I forget how old you are, I think you said 26? The reason I ask, is because my SO and I are just now getting engaged (he has the ring, waiting for the question

) and have been together 8 1/2 years. But we started dating at 16. So even though we knew we wanted to get married very early on, in my opinion the first 7 years werent LIW-status because there was no way we were getting married at 18, 19 20, 21, etc. We just felt it was too young, now I am 24 going on 25, and feel like its not too young now.

Thank you NF for sharing your story.

However, there is a big difference between you and CF. You see, you knew from early on that you wanted to be with him forever but you also knew you weren''t ready. And when you and your boyfriend finally did feel ready after 8 years of dating, he went out and bought you a ring.

CF has spent the last 5 years being ready. Her boyfriend has spent those 5 years telling her that he doesn''t have the money, rather buy a house, and isn''t bothered with marriage. And now with just days away from their 8 year anniversary, there is no ring and no question. It''s just a nother year of not having money, having too many expenses with the house, and not being bothered with marriage.

Fiery-Haha I must have been just typing my ETA when you posted this. Yes, there is an apparent difference that I was attempting (maybe not so eloquently) to point out to her.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 4/1/2009 4:56:48 PM
Author: NakedFinger

Fiery-Haha I must have been just typing my ETA when you posted this. Yes, there is an apparent difference that I was attempting (maybe not so eloquently) to point out to her.

Ah, understood.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/1/2009 4:43:14 PM
Author: choro72
HappyDreams, what Freke did was a much needed wake up call for CF, and update for people who comment on her situation without knowing the background. Not mean at all.

Ditto, of course.

I tend to stay out of LIW because there is inevitably too much history for me to catch up on or keep up with. I don't feel it's my right to comment on someone's situation without having read up on the backstory (AHEM), so I abstain.

Freke did CF and those attempting to give her advice a great service by providing the much-needed backstory that's necessary for said advice-giving. Maybe we can keep this in mind for the future, so that perhaps people won't be so quick-to-advise based on one thread alone (if there are others to better inform).

 

[trillionaire]

CF

Time to put on your big girl pants. Please tell your BF a few things.

1.) It is 4 months past the end of 2008, so your engagement is overdue. Misleading you was manipulative and selfish.
2.) You put his needs/wants first by moving into a home together when you clearly were not comfortable doing so without engagement, and you need him to likewise prioritize your need to get engaged/married.
3.) You are going to spend some time figuring out what you want for yourself and your future, but in the mean time you will be putting out ads for a sublet of your room so that you can move into your own Apt. You will sublet for a finite amount of time (a few months) before you will begin talking to realtors about selling the property, or to him about buying out your stake in the home.


Freke Thanks for all the background!

 

[Octavia]

Musey, I couldn''t agree with you more.

CF, I hope you''re taking the things said here under consideration and will do what is best for you and only for you, but I can''t/wouldn''t tell you what that is. I''m sending you tons of hugs.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 4/1/2009 3:03:52 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 4/1/2009 2:28:15 PM
Author: Aloros
CF, I'm so sorry things have taken this sort of turn

If only things HAD turned. Sadly: same old same old.

Ditto.

And musey, I usually avoid LIW because wasting my breath isn't something I enjoy, but here goes nothing. CF here's my advice: Take a vacation. Alone. And think about your future. Do you really want it to read like Freke's re-post? Cause that's what your headed if you don't make a serious course corrections. The same tune is going to go round and round and round... until you are ready to leave. And by then, your youth, patience, enthusiasm and warmth will have dried up. And cynicism will have moved in, along with bitterness and regret. I'm not going to wish you luck, because what you need isn't luck, its clear thought, reflection, and intropection... so I wish you wisdom.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Date: 4/1/2009 11:06:06 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 4/1/2009 3:03:52 PM

Author: decodelighted

Date: 4/1/2009 2:28:15 PM

Author: Aloros

CF, I''m so sorry things have taken this sort of turn

If only things HAD turned. Sadly: same old same old.

Ditto.


And musey, I usually avoid LIW because wasting my breath isn''t something I enjoy, but here goes nothing. CF here''s my advice: Take a vacation. Alone. And think about your future. Do you really want it to read like Freke''s re-post? Cause that''s what your headed if you don''t make a serious course corrections. The same tune is going to go round and round and round... until you are ready to leave. And by then, your youth, patience, enthusiasm and warmth will have dried up. And cynicism will have moved in, along with bitterness and regret. I''m not going to wish you luck, because what you need isn''t luck, its clear thought, reflection, and intropection... so I wish you wisdom.

Cant agree more.

I have a friend who left her BF of 4 years a year after they graduated college. She was hoping for a proposal by their forth anniversary and when she didn''t get it, she broke up with him. She told me she had already moved to another city for him (he was in med school), and she was ready to start her life and was not going to wait forever. A few months later, they started working things out. It has been 6+ years since than, they are now married with 3 beautiful little girls. Sometimes you have to take a risk and stand up for what you want. If he didn''t come back, than the 2 of them wanted different things and it was best she leave. It was a risk that had a good outcome no matter what.

 

[Bia]

Date: 4/1/2009 11:21:31 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker

Cant agree more.


I have a friend who left her BF of 4 years a year after they graduated college. She was hoping for a proposal by their forth anniversary and when she didn't get it, she broke up with him. She told me she had already moved to another city for him (he was in med school), and she was ready to start her life and was not going to wait forever. A few months later, they started working things out. It has been 6+ years since than, they are now married with 3 beautiful little girls. Sometimes you have to take a risk and stand up for what you want. If he didn't come back, than the 2 of them wanted different things and it was best she leave. It was a risk that had a good outcome no matter what.

Great happy ending LtlFirecracker

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 4/1/2009 11:35:50 PM
Author: Bia

Date: 4/1/2009 11:21:31 PM

Author: LtlFirecracker


Cant agree more.



I have a friend who left her BF of 4 years a year after they graduated college. She was hoping for a proposal by their forth anniversary and when she didn''t get it, she broke up with him. She told me she had already moved to another city for him (he was in med school), and she was ready to start her life and was not going to wait forever. A few months later, they started working things out. It has been 6+ years since than, they are now married with 3 beautiful little girls. Sometimes you have to take a risk and stand up for what you want. If he didn''t come back, than the 2 of them wanted different things and it was best she leave. It was a risk that had a good outcome no matter what.

Great happy ending LtlFirecracker

I agree that it is a happy ending, but the real story here is that she took care of herself and her needs and didn''t let her man walk all over her and ignore her needs or wishes. You don''t do that to coax someone to change their mind, you do it to respect yourself, and whatever happens after, you need to be willing to accept.