Oh Girls :-(

[chocolatefudge]

I don''t know what to think at all. Just as I''m thinking, "Good, he seems to understand how I''m feeling and is sorry," I come back on here and read your responses and they then make me think, "Actually he''s not sorry, he just wants an easy way out of the situation."

I feel so confused! I WANT to believe him so badly but when I read back through what I''ve written I sound so weak. I never saw myself as a weak person and don''t like feeling that way. I''ve always thought my relationship with my boyfriend is so loving and strong but now I''m beginnign to question it so much. There are so many positive things to our relationship but our differing views on marriage seem to taint all the good things. The hardest part is when he keeps telling me that he does want to marry me and now I no longer feel like I can believe him. I feel like I''m going round and round in circles saying the same things. Just keep imagining him proposing in a few days because he suddenly realises how I feel.... Why am I so stupid?!?!

 

[mrscushion]

Date: 4/5/2009 5:08:55 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
I don''t know what to think at all. Just as I''m thinking, ''Good, he seems to understand how I''m feeling and is sorry,'' I come back on here and read your responses and they then make me think, ''Actually he''s not sorry, he just wants an easy way out of the situation.''

I feel so confused! I WANT to believe him so badly but when I read back through what I''ve written I sound so weak. I never saw myself as a weak person and don''t like feeling that way. I''ve always thought my relationship with my boyfriend is so loving and strong but now I''m beginnign to question it so much. There are so many positive things to our relationship but our differing views on marriage seem to taint all the good things. The hardest part is when he keeps telling me that he does want to marry me and now I no longer feel like I can believe him. I feel like I''m going round and round in circles saying the same things. Just keep imagining him proposing in a few days because he suddenly realises how I feel.... Why am I so stupid?!?!

Because you love him and walking away would probably be one of the hardest things you''ve ever done. I am so sorry, CF.

I believe that while your SO is aware right now that he has hurt you, but I very respectfully disagree with trillionaire. I don''t think he''ll be processing that realization in the weeks ahead. I think he''ll try to forget about it as quickly as possible because he doesn''t want to deal with it. That''s why he doesn''t want to look at the e-mail. It''s easy to vaguely feel bad for a little while and then stop thinking about it again; it''s a lot harder to read line-by-line what you said and what you did and how exactly that affected the person you supposedly love more than anyone else. And I think deleting that e-mail, not reading it, is not wanting to deal with how he''s hurt you and face the honest consequences.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 4/5/2009 5:08:55 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
I don''t know what to think at all. Just as I''m thinking, ''Good, he seems to understand how I''m feeling and is sorry,'' I come back on here and read your responses and they then make me think, ''Actually he''s not sorry, he just wants an easy way out of the situation.''


I feel so confused! I WANT to believe him so badly but when I read back through what I''ve written I sound so weak. I never saw myself as a weak person and don''t like feeling that way. I''ve always thought my relationship with my boyfriend is so loving and strong but now I''m beginnign to question it so much. There are so many positive things to our relationship but our differing views on marriage seem to taint all the good things. The hardest part is when he keeps telling me that he does want to marry me and now I no longer feel like I can believe him. I feel like I''m going round and round in circles saying the same things. Just keep imagining him proposing in a few days because he suddenly realises how I feel.... Why am I so stupid?!?!

CF, you are NOT stupid, and you''re not weak. When you love someone, you let them in, and you expect to be able to trust them. It takes a long time to realize that they''re not who you thought they were. I''ve been through it, and I assume a lot of other women on PS have been through the same thing.

When I look at your post, I see someone who really wants to love, and believe me I know how easy it is to make excuses. They totally make sense in your head! It''s so easy to get caught up in that.

He''s throwing you little tidbits of love, and you collect them and treasure them. You hold on to them so tightly because you don''t know when you''ll get some love again. You live every day for those moments where he seems to treat you right. They manipulate you by throwing you out and pulling you back in right when you''re about to leave, right when you think you can''t take it anymore.

You know where you stand, it''s just a matter of getting to a point where you''ve had enough and feel like you deserve more. After a horrible 5 year relationship, I have come to live by one concept, and that is that men are black and white. No, I don''t mean they have no depth, or feelings, or they''re transparent. What I mean is, when men want something they''re unstoppable. Seriously. They show you exactly how they feel about you everyday. If you don''t feel loved every day, they''re not doing their job. That''s not to say you can''t have your moments, but I''m telling you, you should not have to work this hard.

You should wake up everyday and feel good about your relationship. This cycle is making you doubt yourself, crushing your self-esteem, and making you only more willing to stay with him, because you''re afraid to leave.

Relationships do require work, but the maintenance that they require should never hurt. You should feel confident. You deserve to feel good about your relationship.

I guess I can''t say anything else that hasn''t already been said. I know you''re going to wake up one day and realize you deserve better, you''ll leave, and you won''t look back.

 

[purselover]

Date: 4/5/2009 5:08:55 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
I don''t know what to think at all. Just as I''m thinking, ''Good, he seems to understand how I''m feeling and is sorry,'' I come back on here and read your responses and they then make me think, ''Actually he''s not sorry, he just wants an easy way out of the situation.''


I feel so confused! I WANT to believe him so badly but when I read back through what I''ve written I sound so weak. I never saw myself as a weak person and don''t like feeling that way. I''ve always thought my relationship with my boyfriend is so loving and strong but now I''m beginnign to question it so much. There are so many positive things to our relationship but our differing views on marriage seem to taint all the good things. The hardest part is when he keeps telling me that he does want to marry me and now I no longer feel like I can believe him. I feel like I''m going round and round in circles saying the same things. Just keep imagining him proposing in a few days because he suddenly realises how I feel.... Why am I so stupid?!?!

He may have told you before that he wants to marry you but he also has said that he''d be fine not getting married, and according to his actions (or lack there of) I would have to think that he really feels the 2nd way, that getting married is just not a priority for him. I honestly don''t think he''s going to propose all of a sudden, and if marriage is something you want now you should not settle for anything less. I think you need to figure out how much longer you''re willing to wait. Not to sound totally cheesy but to quote Dr Phil "the only thing worse than being in a toxic relationship for 8 years is being in a toxic relationship for 8 years and 1 day."

 

[purselover]

Date: 4/5/2009 5:23:46 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 4/5/2009 5:08:55 PM

Author: chocolatefudge

I don''t know what to think at all. Just as I''m thinking, ''Good, he seems to understand how I''m feeling and is sorry,'' I come back on here and read your responses and they then make me think, ''Actually he''s not sorry, he just wants an easy way out of the situation.''



I feel so confused! I WANT to believe him so badly but when I read back through what I''ve written I sound so weak. I never saw myself as a weak person and don''t like feeling that way. I''ve always thought my relationship with my boyfriend is so loving and strong but now I''m beginnign to question it so much. There are so many positive things to our relationship but our differing views on marriage seem to taint all the good things. The hardest part is when he keeps telling me that he does want to marry me and now I no longer feel like I can believe him. I feel like I''m going round and round in circles saying the same things. Just keep imagining him proposing in a few days because he suddenly realises how I feel.... Why am I so stupid?!?!

CF, you are NOT stupid, and you''re not weak. When you love someone, you let them in, and you expect to be able to trust them. It takes a long time to realize that they''re not who you thought they were. I''ve been through it, and I assume a lot of other women on PS have been through the same thing.


When I look at your post, I see someone who really wants to love, and believe me I know how easy it is to make excuses. They totally make sense in your head! It''s so easy to get caught up in that.


He''s throwing you little tidbits of love, and you collect them and treasure them. You hold on to them so tightly because you don''t know when you''ll get some love again. You live every day for those moments where he seems to treat you right. They manipulate you by throwing you out and pulling you back in right when you''re about to leave, right when you think you can''t take it anymore.


You know where you stand, it''s just a matter of getting to a point where you''ve had enough and feel like you deserve more. After a horrible 5 year relationship, I have come to live by one concept, and that is that men are black and white. No, I don''t mean they have no depth, or feelings, or they''re transparent. What I mean is, when men want something they''re unstoppable. Seriously. They show you exactly how they feel about you everyday. If you don''t feel loved every day, they''re not doing their job. That''s not to say you can''t have your moments, but I''m telling you, you should not have to work this hard.


You should wake up everyday and feel good about your relationship. This cycle is making you doubt yourself, crushing your self-esteem, and making you only more willing to stay with him, because you''re afraid to leave.


Relationships do require work, but the maintenance that they require should never hurt. You should feel confident. You deserve to feel good about your relationship.


I guess I can''t say anything else that hasn''t already been said. I know you''re going to wake up one day and realize you deserve better, you''ll leave, and you won''t look back.

very wise elledizzy, you''re very well spoken

 

[icekid]

Date: 4/5/2009 4:01:32 PM
Author: chocolatefudge

''Because I''ve been horrible, and I''ve realised I''ve done and said horrible things and I was too embarassed to read it.''

I think he is behaving like a child who cannot own his mistakes. How can he make it right if he cannot be enough of a man to take responsibility for all of the hurt he has caused you? He can''t even be bothered to read it, when he has forced you to LIVE these feelings?

CF, you deserve to feel secure in your relationship. You deserve so much more than this guy is giving.

 

[SparklyLibra]

Awww CF,

. I worry for you that each day you spend going round and round in circles is draining your reserve of self respect. Especially when I hear you call yourself stupid and weak. YOU. ARE. NOT.STUPID. YOU. ARE. NOT. WEAK.

The very fact that you are popping back in & out of this thread proves that. You obviously have the good sense enough to seek out objective perspectives. You obviously love yourself enough to open your mind to the very idea of hearing from us what you ALREADY know deep down in your heart is best for you. Sometimes it''s hard to apply what we hear. But hearing it over and over again in many different voices IS good for you. It will echo in your mind and probably propel you to do what is so very difficult to do because of the binding strings of love and affection.

As far as his lame a$$ excuse for deleting the email, let me share with you what I saw JUMPING off the page when I read that:

"Um, yeah, about that, sorry I deleted it, but I just couldn''t stand to look in the mirror and face the fact that I''ve been putting my wants/needs/feelings above yours because it makes me look like the bad guy, and I don''t wanna be the bad guy, so Imma just stick my fingers in my ears and pretend I don''t really hear you. Because really, my ego and how bad I look is WAAAAAY more important to me that facing the fact that I''ve wounded and crushed your hopes in the most tragic of ways... Yep that''s right, dooo-deee-dooo-deee-doooo"

*sticks fingers back in ears*

I''ve actually moved from being saddened to angry on your behalf. He''s basically putting his "embarrassment" above your feelings.

CF, I''m sorry to say this because I know it''s still all tender and raw, but I think the handwriting is on the wall. Whether it says you should stay or you should go, it''s not my place to say, you have to come to that decision on your own, otherwise you will resent those offering support to you. BUT what it does say is that this is NOT a partnership, and the more you let his wants a priority over yours, is the more you are just handing over the power to him to continue. He''s only doing what you have (hopefully up until this point) allowed him to do....

Take back control over your heart. It''s YOURS to cherish and nurture so that one day when you can truly know that giving it to someone will be reciprocated fully....

 

[decodelighted]

All my sophistication has gone out the window. This is all I have left: WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP .. oh yeah .. & WAKE THE FREAK UP.

 

[EricaR]

Hey Deco, I''m not quite sure what you are trying to say. Could you be a bit clearer, please?

 

[Treasure43]

CF, you are NOT stupid, and you''re not weak. When you love someone, you let them in, and you expect to be able to trust them. It takes a long time to realize that they''re not who you thought they were. I''ve been through it, and I assume a lot of other women on PS have been through the same thing.

When I look at your post, I see someone who really wants to love, and believe me I know how easy it is to make excuses. They totally make sense in your head! It''s so easy to get caught up in that.

He''s throwing you little tidbits of love, and you collect them and treasure them. You hold on to them so tightly because you don''t know when you''ll get some love again. You live every day for those moments where he seems to treat you right. They manipulate you by throwing you out and pulling you back in right when you''re about to leave, right when you think you can''t take it anymore.

You know where you stand, it''s just a matter of getting to a point where you''ve had enough and feel like you deserve more. After a horrible 5 year relationship, I have come to live by one concept, and that is that men are black and white. No, I don''t mean they have no depth, or feelings, or they''re transparent. What I mean is, when men want something they''re unstoppable. Seriously. They show you exactly how they feel about you everyday. If you don''t feel loved every day, they''re not doing their job. That''s not to say you can''t have your moments, but I''m telling you, you should not have to work this hard.

You should wake up everyday and feel good about your relationship. This cycle is making you doubt yourself, crushing your self-esteem, and making you only more willing to stay with him, because you''re afraid to leave.

Relationships do require work, but the maintenance that they require should never hurt. You should feel confident. You deserve to feel good about your relationship.

I guess I can''t say anything else that hasn''t already been said. I know you''re going to wake up one day and realize you deserve better, you''ll leave, and you won''t look back.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.


Ditto to that! I''ve been in past relationships and made excuse after excuse for my SO because I loved him so much. However, with my relationship now my BF makes me feel loved EVERY SINGLE DAY. If I''m upset, we talk about it and my feelings are always valid in his eyes. I never thought it was possible but I promise you, when you find the right guy he will want to marry you and nothing will stop him. Men are black and white in that respect. If they want it, they do it.


CF, you are NOT stupid at all and you are NOT weak! Please don''t let him make you feel like you are EITHER of those things. It''s very easy to make excuses for a man that you love. There is nothing wrong with wanting to trust and love someone else. however, you''re SO is NOT respecting your feelings and is taking advantage of the fact that you love him so much. I''m not here to tell you what to do, only you can make that decision. However I will echo the sentiment that ''the writing is on the wall''. It''s been 8 years, you deserve more!

Just know we''ll all be here to support you with whaever you decide!

 

[gwendolyn]

Honey, I am so, so sorry, but I think this last incident of him deleting the email to avoid facing up to the truth of exactly how horribly he's been leading you on should be the last straw (at least, it would be if it was me in your position). It won't be easy, but I really do think you should leave him (take that with a grain of salt since you know my info about your relationship is limited, but yeah, had to say it). Sounds to me like he's a coward who is comfortable as things are but is dead set against change of any sort, and is going to keep dicking you around until you tire of it and walk away. He may act loving and love you in some immature sort of way, but not the way you need. These things here are the big things. They matter. They matter more than him doing any lovey stuff because this is the REAL relationship stuff. Right here. The stuff that takes two grown-ups to communicate and work through. You tried to communicate to show him a timeline of his deceits, and he deleted it. What else is there? That shows you everything you need to know.

I am so sorry, honey. Take care of yourself.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 4/5/2009 5:07:40 PM
Author: trillionaire
CF, if you think your BF is great other than the marriage thing, then that is okay! If he says that he realizes that he has been horrible, he probably does. And it''s okay to give him a little time to process everything. I think you should figure out a time that you would both be comfortable talking about a timeline again, and let him know that it is the last time, ever, with him, that you will be willing to do so. Your heart cannot take another disappointment (or lie) and you don''t deserve it. If he is sincere about his intentions and is truly sorry, he will do what needs to be done. I know the calvary here on PS is already circling the wagons, but you have to do what is right for you, and forcing a lot of rough convos in a short amount of time rarely produces the desired results. So, relax, breath a little, and when you are both in a good place, go from there, and figure out when to have the convo to set a ''real'' timeline.


Good luck!

I agree with Trillionaire. I imagine that he read enough of that email to be very shocked and then he deleted it because he couldn''t deal with reading anymore. It was pretty brave of you to send it, and I think it was a good move. I would just make an internal timeline and not say another word. If the end of that timeline comes, then I''d tell him that while you love him, you aren''t willing to wait any longer. I wouldn''t want to marry someone who I forced into it.

 

[musey]

Ditto everything elledizzy said. You are not stupid, you are just in over your head, know what I mean? It's certainly something that most everyone goes through at some point in their life. Some things... we just have to learn the hard way.

I do tend to agree with all the advice that you're getting, BUT this is a decision that you have to come to on your own (which you know). This is not something you can be talked or coaxed in to, or something someone else can 'show you the light' on - this is your own journey that you have to take yourself.

I hope that all the feedback you're getting is helping you to make up your own mind, to see the situation more clearly, no matter where that may lead you. It's so incredibly important in this situation that you take some time to yourself:

- Make yourself some tea. Or coffee. Or a margarita. Whatever helps you feel calm!

- Find some solitude - somewhere that you won't be bothered by your boyfriend, your friends, your family, your computer, work, phone... anything. Just find a way to feel calm.

- Sit and reflect on yourself first. What is making you happy? What isn't? In your heart of hearts, what matters most to you in this life? What's missing? How are you feeling fulfilled, or unfulfilled? What do you want?

- Once you've settled "you," how is it that your relationship fits in to the equation? You have things that you want, things that make you happy - is your relationship facilitating those things, or standing in the way? It's not just about your boyfriend and how much you love him - which you obviously do, very much - it's about the two of you together. This is a separate issue from how much you love him... it's how much you love your relationship.

- After all of that... the calming, the self-reflection, the thought about your relationship... sit down and start making your decisions. Whatever they are, be ready to follow through. These aren't nebulous ideas, they are concrete.


Only then should you approach your boyfriend again, in my opinion. Whether or not you tell him about this soul-searching, that's your choice - though if you decide to stay, I would personally fill him in - on every little detail.


Chocolate, you deserve to pursue everything you want in life. ALL of it. If something is standing in the way of your desires, have a serious talk with yourself to figure out whether that something is worth the sacrifice it requires.

You have control of your own life - you. It's your job to make yourself happy.

 

[FrekeChild]

I think musey has given you some very wise advice.

 

[trillionaire]

CF,

I would feel overwhelmed if I was in your position as well. This is a lot of info and opinions to take in, suddenly. I would give myself, and my BF some processing time. I would assess his willingness to improve and work towards a solution, his willingness to consider my needs and feelings.

I would also probably stay off of PS for a while as I sorted things out.

Maybe you can try something like this.


1,000 Questions for Couples

Some of the questions are easy and benign and things you probably know the answer to, but some of them are about your plans, how you see the world and your future, your views on a lot of things. It might be helpful to parse out how you both are viewing things differently, and give you a good starting place to discuss how to bridge the gaps. It''s also neutral and non-accusatory, so he has no reason to respond defensively.

You do or WILL know when or if it is time to toss in the towel, so I don''t feel the need to harp on that.

And as always, good luck!

 

[chocolatefudge]

Thank you again for all your (mixed!) advice. I honestly can see where you are coming from when telling me to leave the relationship but I also feel that I must defend it. As has been pointed out, you are only reading what I have told you, and while these are not good things, there are plenty of positives too!

I''ve been thinking about things all night and I think that my boyfriend does love me BUT he obviously has an issue with getting married. I think my persistent questioning about an engagement made him give me a timeline he wasn''t ready for. He knew how upset I was about him not being ready in the past and how it made me feel like I wasn''t the one for him and so I think he told me what I wanted to hear. Yes, this was the wrong thing to do, but I think he did it for the right reasons. I think everytime I brought up getting married it panicked him more and more because he didn''t want that and so he didn''t want to discuss it.

Now all of a sudden he is saying that he IS ready but never was before. There is a chance this is the truth, there''s a large chance it isn''t.

There are so many positive parts to our relationship and I am not ready to walk away. I am putting all my trust in him for the last time. If it hasn''t happened by June then I really will look at moving on this time.

I spoke to him again about the email and he said that he did read the first part of it. I told him that it had upset me that he had deleted it and he admitted that it was still on his computer and he will read it today.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 4/5/2009 8:37:12 PM
Author: decodelighted
All my sophistication has gone out the window. This is all I have left: WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP .. oh yeah .. & WAKE THE FREAK UP.

agreed.

 

[bookworm240]

I am sorry this has been such a long road. It is not a logical decision, but emotional and that''s why it doesn''t "make sense".

I was married at 32 - about 5 years later than I thought I would be. I met and married my husband in 10 months. He was the first man that was ever "easy". He was where he was supposed to be, canceled events to spend more time with me....in short he was available. An available man who was into me was a new and scary thing. I did not have to prove how great I was, he got it. I didn''t have to beg for his time, he gave it. He wanted to talk about our problems and said seeing me happy made him happy. It was easy

I now use this as a basis for friendships, if they aren''t easy (as described above), I am out of there.

We now have 2 children under the age of 4. One has a developmental disability. We deal with in-laws, neighbors, money, health issues, schooling issues, schedules, holidays, babysitters, potty training..... and for 80% of the time it is still easy....meaning we want the same things and mostly we want the other person to be happy.

You can always get married. Being married doesn''t change the foundation of the relationship, in fact it adds a lot of stress because you have FOREVER looming over you.

Couples or individual counseling might be good to clarify what each of you wants and also to have support as you want decisions. Friends are going to feel protective of and for you. An outside voice might be nice.

Sending a hug....I know this isn''t "easy".

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 4/6/2009 4:22:41 AM
Author: chocolatefudge
If it hasn't happened by June then I really will look at moving on this time.

I think that if you are certain that he knows exactly where you are on this, and if you are sure that he is clear how you've been processing this, then end of June is a great deadline. Is there a way you could communicate to him where you are on this, exactly, without upsetting the applecart?
I think Trillionaire has given excellent advice throughout this thread, and that perhaps a couple of months to let the dust settle does allow both of you some dignity and breathing room to make the 'moves that matter'.
I mean, he has to find a good emotional space in which to propose, if that is what he decides he wants to do!
Three months is not really a long period, in the broad scheme of things, only six months longer than your original deadline overall, yet it is long enough in day-to-day living time to really get on with getting on with each, and getting on with life!
Good luck, CF!

ETA: Yes, you are not to go soft, CF! Otherwise all this emotional effort will have been for nothing!! I would start day dreaming about all the OTHER stuff you are going to do, once your deadline rolls around! don't let him think he can bring you a cup of tea, and that's the end of all of it for another year!!! Couple more years like this, and you'll be in the same situation that so many of my friends and my sister are in... sweet-talked till their 30s, and suddenly it seems like all the nicest ones are gone, off doing what family men do naturally. You 27, is that right?, you have a few precious years to really make the most of yourself without all the 'biological clock' social bulls*** (yes it's there, and isn't it rude after the merry dance the boyfriends lead us!!!!!), don't waste the best years of your youth on a 'could-a, would-a, should-a'!!!

 

[SparklyLibra]

Date: 4/6/2009 4:22:41 AM
Author: chocolatefudge
Thank you again for all your (mixed!) advice. I honestly can see where you are coming from when telling me to leave the relationship but I also feel that I must defend it. As has been pointed out, you are only reading what I have told you, and while these are not good things, there are plenty of positives too!


I've been thinking about things all night and I think that my boyfriend does love me BUT he obviously has an issue with getting married. I think my persistent questioning about an engagement made him give me a timeline he wasn't ready for. He knew how upset I was about him not being ready in the past and how it made me feel like I wasn't the one for him and so I think he told me what I wanted to hear. Yes, this was the wrong thing to do, but I think he did it for the right reasons. I think everytime I brought up getting married it panicked him more and more because he didn't want that and so he didn't want to discuss it.


Now all of a sudden he is saying that he IS ready but never was before. There is a chance this is the truth, there's a large chance it isn't.


There are so many positive parts to our relationship and I am not ready to walk away. I am putting all my trust in him for the last time. If it hasn't happened by June then I really will look at moving on this time.


I spoke to him again about the email and he said that he did read the first part of it. I told him that it had upset me that he had deleted it and he admitted that it was still on his computer and he will read it today.

..... Sigh.... June is only two months away... Please keep us posted. I sure do hope for your sake that what he couldn't manage to save over five years, he is able to scrape together in two months.

All the positives in the world don't change the fact that fundamentally you both have very different views/ wants when it comes to marriage. UNLESS of course, you are willing to throw your values/ wants/ foundation of who you are and what you want, out the window.... Then hey, all of the positives will keep you happy/ company when you don't remember who you are anymore....


I really don't mean to come off harsh, but I'm speaking from experience and that is the raw truth. Women who've BTDT tend not to lie *ahem* sugarcoat things for people they see about to fall into the same trap

At this point I think we've wished you enough wisdom, it's now upto you to use it....

Best of Luck.

 

[Winks_Elf]

He read the email, and then deleted it. Never replied, not even so much as an "I'm sorry for being an a$$." THEN he went out to play football. Comes home, and continues to ignore you by working in the garden. Finally you ask him about the email, and he acknowledges that he got it, lies and says he didn't read it, and DROPS IT!!!

I know you love him, but what the other ladies have said I have to agree with. He's more concerned about saving face than discussing the pain he has put you through over the past years.

Have you ever seen the movie, "Pretty Woman?" There's a line in that movie that really hits home in situations like this: "I want more." Once your eyes have been opened, it's very hard to stay stagnated. You'll pick up more and more on little comments and be analyzing them. There's only so long you'll be able to handle that before you snap. Good luck hun, you deserve better.

 

[Lauren8211]

CF, I have to ask you a question. When all of this is said and done, and assume he DOES propose finally...

Are you going to be able to trust him when he says something else, or are you always going to have doubt in his word because of how many times he''s lied to you about your future together?

If you can''t trust him, there''s no point in getting married. No matter how many awesome things he''s done.

Trust is #1.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 4/5/2009 11:24:46 PM
Author: musey
Ditto everything elledizzy said. You are not stupid, you are just in over your head, know what I mean? It''s certainly something that most everyone goes through at some point in their life. Some things... we just have to learn the hard way.


I do tend to agree with all the advice that you''re getting, BUT this is a decision that you have to come to on your own (which you know). This is not something you can be talked or coaxed in to, or something someone else can ''show you the light'' on - this is your own journey that you have to take yourself.


I hope that all the feedback you''re getting is helping you to make up your own mind, to see the situation more clearly, no matter where that may lead you. It''s so incredibly important in this situation that you take some time to yourself:


- Make yourself some tea. Or coffee. Or a margarita. Whatever helps you feel calm!


- Find some solitude - somewhere that you won''t be bothered by your boyfriend, your friends, your family, your computer, work, phone... anything. Just find a way to feel calm.


- Sit and reflect on yourself first. What is making you happy? What isn''t? In your heart of hearts, what matters most to you in this life? What''s missing? How are you feeling fulfilled, or unfulfilled? What do you want?


- Once you''ve settled ''you,'' how is it that your relationship fits in to the equation? You have things that you want, things that make you happy - is your relationship facilitating those things, or standing in the way? It''s not just about your boyfriend and how much you love him - which you obviously do, very much - it''s about the two of you together. This is a separate issue from how much you love him... it''s how much you love your relationship.


- After all of that... the calming, the self-reflection, the thought about your relationship... sit down and start making your decisions. Whatever they are, be ready to follow through. These aren''t nebulous ideas, they are concrete.



Only then should you approach your boyfriend again, in my opinion. Whether or not you tell him about this soul-searching, that''s your choice - though if you decide to stay, I would personally fill him in - on every little detail.



Chocolate, you deserve to pursue everything you want in life. ALL of it. If something is standing in the way of your desires, have a serious talk with yourself to figure out whether that something is worth the sacrifice it requires.


You have control of your own life - you. It''s your job to make yourself happy.

Well said.

 

[tlh]

Date: 4/6/2009 9:37:14 AM
Author: Winks_Elf
He read the email, and then deleted it. Never replied, not even so much as an ''I''m sorry for being an a$$.'' THEN he went out to play football. Comes home, and continues to ignore you by working in the garden. Finally you ask him about the email, and he acknowledges that he got it, lies and says he didn''t read it, and DROPS IT!!!

I know you love him, but what the other ladies have said I have to agree with. He''s more concerned about saving face than discussing the pain he has put you through over the past years.

Have you ever seen the movie, ''Pretty Woman?'' There''s a line in that movie that really hits home in situations like this: ''I want more.'' Once your eyes have been opened, it''s very hard to stay stagnated. You''ll pick up more and more on little comments and be analyzing them. There''s only so long you''ll be able to handle that before you snap. Good luck hun, you deserve better.

I''d agree with Winks here.

The only thing I''d like to add, is that I honestly have hurt someone''s feelings that I''ve cared about. I''ve tried to avoid talking about it, because it is HARD. My face gets hot, and the words are like ICE trying to come out... I''m sure he did feel like a jerk... but here''s the difference. I wouldn''t have deleted the email. i would have read it, BARELY the first time... and left. I would have found a distraction... and spent time alone. (AVOIDING THE MUSIC.) Then later I would have read it again. The strange thing is... you are living like you are married. When you are single (according to your W-2) most of the time you dont live together or share a morgage. You can go back to your own place and muse over things... w/o the prying eye of your loved one- the one you hurt. So he went to the garden to well... avoid facing you. Then he made you a drink... trying to be nice... and you brought it up... putting him on the spot. And he answered you.
My issue is not that he deleted it... which seems to us women as though your feelings did not have value. HOWEVER, men are different than women. they don''t always need to keepsake things.. like cards, emails, etc. My real question is... was he being honest when he said he didn''t read it? I hope he just didn''t want to go over a blow by blow of how he hurt you... apologising for every single line on your email. I''d like to believe he did read it and was sincere when he said he was embarrassed.
I would just watch now... he had an eye opening experience.. in the next few months you''ll see how things will change... either he''ll change and take ownership and have HONEST conversations about his intentions - or you''ll get tired of waiting and change your man.

HUGS! I wish the best for you!

 

[Aloros]

I don''t think people are incapable of change. One of the things I love about my fiance is his willingness to change and his constant effort to be the best person possible. You''ve had some very good advice here, CF. I don''t know that 2 months will be enough time for him to get off his @$$ and propose, but if he wants to change, if this time is TRULY different, I think you''ll know within 2 months.

I''m totally with musey on her advice. Take some time to reflect, and give your bf some time to process everything.

It took me a long time to leave my ex, even though I knew that a lot of people thought we were mismatched. In the end, I wished I''d left earlier, but I''m also glad that I was able to do so without regrets and without ever looking back. Do what feels right for you.

 

[Bia]

Date: 4/6/2009 10:05:15 AM
Author: elledizzy5
CF, I have to ask you a question. When all of this is said and done, and assume he DOES propose finally...

Are you going to be able to trust him when he says something else, or are you always going to have doubt in his word because of how many times he''s lied to you about your future together?

If you can''t trust him, there''s no point in getting married. No matter how many awesome things he''s done.

Trust is #1.

I agree. Trust is absolutely, without a doubt, # 1.

 

[chocolatefudge]

Again thanks ladies- particularly you, tlh. I also do think that he probably read the email but didn''t wat to say it on here for fear of being mocked!

I am going to give him these extra couple of months and see what happens. As many of you have said, we ARE living like a married couple. He is good to me in so many ways, we have had tough times and come through them together, there have been deaths of close family members, my SO has been in hospital with meningitis, I was jobless for a while, there has been a car accident, money troubles, all things that we have come through together. I know all couples experience these things and this is not an excuse to not marry me, I just want to make the point that he is not a terrible person.

Everything else is so good, we just need to sort out the problem he has with marriage.

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 4/6/2009 12:45:48 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
Again thanks ladies- particularly you, tlh. I also do think that he probably read the email but didn''t wat to say it on here for fear of being mocked!

I am going to give him these extra couple of months and see what happens. As many of you have said, we ARE living like a married couple. He is good to me in so many ways, we have had tough times and come through them together, there have been deaths of close family members, my SO has been in hospital with meningitis, I was jobless for a while, there has been a car accident, money troubles, all things that we have come through together. I know all couples experience these things and this is not an excuse to not marry me, I just want to make the point that he is not a terrible person.

Everything else is so good, we just need to sort out the problem he has with marriage.

"We" ?

Not even close. Try He. He needs to sort out the problem he has with marriage.

 

[SparklyLibra]

Thanks for dropping back in CF!

Yes all couples endure tests...

Enduring trials together and being on the same page fundamentally are not the same thing.

I don''t think anyone here is saying that he is a horrible person, just that it seems as though your priorities are not his priorities, namely an issue called Marriage...

... And PP is right, HIS issue with marriage is not YOURS to work out or fix. You cannot change his mind on this, it''s his mind to change... And besides, do you REALLY want to be married to a man who had to be convinced into marrying you

The last thing you need is to have him forever beating you over the head with, "Well I never wanted to get married in the first place, this was all YOUR idea"...

I''m just sayin.....

You know what? I think it''s best I just go back to watching from the sidelines again; I only have one Amerge left & I might need it for later...

Please TCB.

 

[Bia]

Date: 4/6/2009 1:48:55 PM
Author: SparklyLibra
Thanks for dropping back in CF!

Yes all couples endure tests...

Enduring trials together and being on the same page fundamentally are not the same thing.

I don't think anyone here is saying that he is a horrible person, just that it seems as though your priorities are not his priorities, namely an issue called Marriage...

... And PP is right, HIS issue with marriage is not YOURS to work out or fix. You cannot change his mind on this, it's his mind to change... And besides, do you REALLY want to be married to a man who had to be convinced into marrying you

The last thing you need is to have him forever beating you over the head with, 'Well I never wanted to get married in the first place, this was all YOUR idea'...

I'm just sayin.....

You know what? I think it's best I just go back to watching from the sidelines again; I only have one Amerge left & I might need it for later...

Please TCB.

That's my main issue with this whole thing. I would be so afraid to push someone into marriage. I beginning to worry that my FI had had second thoughts about marrying me and I waited months, not years.

Marriage should be something you both want, because there isn't an alternative. You know?

I'm really not trying to be a debbie-downer, but in this case it just seems so one-sided. It hurts to think of what could happen if it doesn't pan out the way you are so hoping it will CF. Even if he does agree to marry you.