Now I know I expect too much re: people being friendly toward my kids.

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 5/1/2009 4:11:45 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Nope, not even close. He's in the Air Force because he 1. wanted to travel extensively, 2. has been fascinated with flying since he was 4 (momma's career is in aerospace - he grew up at air shows, playing in a flight simulator, etc.) and is now part of the flight crew, 3. Is a conservative, right wing, patriotic type (got that right wing thing from his dad), and 4. the pay was pretty good for an 18 year old.

Now he's a Staff Sargeant and gives the orders, rather than taking them

. They bonused him $40K in cash for reupping. He's been recruited for Special Ops (the black ops you or I will never know about) and is considering it. He will be depending entirely upon his own judgement in the jungle and responsible for many lives.

You seem to think the military is a group of lock step losers. I kinda pity you.

Why do you pity me? Just because I think and perceive concepts differently than you???

We could go back and forth on this for post after post, but what it comes down to is you raised your child the way you did and now I'm raising mine the way I am. I know you like to throw punches whenever you can when posting on here, and I'm not wanting to battle this one out because nothing we say to each other will result in anything constructive because you are pretty much ridged in your views and I am still learning my parenting ropes. We're at entirely different stages in our lives.

Take care! Best of luck to your son and his career

 

[luckystar112]

I agree with Janine about the mid-20s types. I am one, so I know how my some of my friends were raised. lol. I was 18 and moving across the country while most of my friends continued to live with their parents rent-free. One of my closest girl friends is 26 and she just moved out of her parent''s house last year. I used to hang out with a guy who was in his mid-20s when I was 16. He lived in his parent''s basement and had a job as a bouncer at a bar. I ran into him this last Christmas and guess what he''s doing now?? Living in his parents basement and working as a bouncer in a bar.

He told me that his parents are in the middle of selling their house and are going to move to Florida. He doesn''t know what he''s going to do yet, and he''s in his mid-30s.

Another guy I hung out with in high school was, again, in his 20s. His parents moved away and left him their house, which he lived in rent-free. He still lives there rent free. It''s amazing.

Then there were the two guys I knew (not related) who came from very affluent families. When they turned 18 and graduated from high school they had a trust fund waiting for them. I remember one of the guys blew through the money in like 2 months. He''d party it up and impress everyone by lighting $100 bills on fire. No lie.

The other one received something like 18 grand from his grandparents. He purchased a spot at a campground for the summer, bought a tent, and partied it up all summer long. The money was gone in a flash. Could you fricken IMAGING saving money to put your grandkids in college and having them eff it up like that. Man.

On the other hand, I think I''m "lucky" in the sense that nothing was ever given to me. I''ve had a job from the time I was 15 years old. The only time I''ve ever resented my parents for not giving me money for college is when I''d fill out the fafsa and have to claim their income despite getting no money from them. But I learned not to ask for anything. Don''t get me wrong, if I was ever in a bind my mother would be the first person to help me out. But I was raised to not feel entitled to anything. It pisses me off when I see more fortunate kids screw up what they''ve been given and then ask for more.

I''ll tell you though, I really think this is a phase. It seems like a lot of us are on the same page when it comes to parenting, and it gives me hope! It''s good to see people like tgal and neatfreak speak realistically about raising their kids to be self-reliant and confident. I know I will too.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 5/1/2009 5:45:56 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 5/1/2009 5:01:03 PM
Author: Mara
''That he cannot plan out his own actions because he''s been so over disaplined and TAUGHT not to think/act for himself? That he doesn''t guide himself based on his own judgement?''

_____

Greg was raised much like PP''s son was...Mom was way more strict than mine was. He didn''t have any problems thinking or acting for himself or striking out on his own. He''s lived in various cities across the US, has multiple degrees, including an MBA from one of the best business schools in the US. He''s done incredibly well for himself, is very intelligent, articulate, musically talented, and obviously a stellar human being since I married him.

Just because ''in the olden days'' parents were super strict with their kids and/or didn''t let them get away with anything does not mean that they grow up to be mindless drones. In fact, almost everyone I know who had very strict parents who expected kids to be seen but not heard turned out just fine and even MORE than fine. This is why (even though I was a little hellion that my Mom had a hard time controlling) I tend to lean towards the stricter parenting of the past, less of the whole ''listen to little Bobby''s feelings'' and/or treating them like little adults. They are NOT adults. They are kids..and they depend on the parents to help show them the way to be in the world around them.

Ditto. I think MC was grasping at straws on that one.

And having met Greg, I agree, he''s a winner.

I''m not sure where this is coming from. I wasn''t talking about Greg. I was just motioning to the similarity between PP''s strict parenting and how the military takes a similar approach to pushing orders and discipline (my post was specific to her comments). Greg wasn''t in the military, was he?

I wasn''t implying that strict parenting results in mindless drones. . .

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 5/2/2009 11:41:02 AM
Author: MC

Date: 5/1/2009 5:45:56 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Ditto. I think MC was grasping at straws on that one.

And having met Greg, I agree, he''s a winner.

I''m not sure where this is coming from. I wasn''t talking about Greg. I was just motioning to the similarity between PP''s strict parenting and how the military takes a similar approach to pushing orders and discipline (my post was specific to her comments). Greg wasn''t in the military, was he?

I wasn''t implying that strict parenting results in mindless drones. . .

Naw, you were just implying that people that choose the military can''t think for themselves and function best taking orders

Then you got called out on it and now you''re trying to act all victim-y. Backpeddle much?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/2/2009 11:41:02 AM
Author: MC

Date: 5/1/2009 5:45:56 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 5/1/2009 5:01:03 PM
Author: Mara
''That he cannot plan out his own actions because he''s been so over disaplined and TAUGHT not to think/act for himself? That he doesn''t guide himself based on his own judgement?''

_____

Greg was raised much like PP''s son was...Mom was way more strict than mine was. He didn''t have any problems thinking or acting for himself or striking out on his own. He''s lived in various cities across the US, has multiple degrees, including an MBA from one of the best business schools in the US. He''s done incredibly well for himself, is very intelligent, articulate, musically talented, and obviously a stellar human being since I married him.

Just because ''in the olden days'' parents were super strict with their kids and/or didn''t let them get away with anything does not mean that they grow up to be mindless drones. In fact, almost everyone I know who had very strict parents who expected kids to be seen but not heard turned out just fine and even MORE than fine. This is why (even though I was a little hellion that my Mom had a hard time controlling) I tend to lean towards the stricter parenting of the past, less of the whole ''listen to little Bobby''s feelings'' and/or treating them like little adults. They are NOT adults. They are kids..and they depend on the parents to help show them the way to be in the world around them.

Ditto. I think MC was grasping at straws on that one.

And having met Greg, I agree, he''s a winner.

I''m not sure where this is coming from. I wasn''t talking about Greg. I was just motioning to the similarity between PP''s strict parenting and how the military takes a similar approach to pushing orders and discipline (my post was specific to her comments). Greg wasn''t in the military, was he?

I wasn''t implying that strict parenting results in mindless drones. . .

C''mon MC. What you said was:

"Isn''t your son in the military? Do you think that in any way he is so because he''s been raised to behave entirely upon orders received by others? That he cannot plan out his own actions because he''s been so over disaplined and TAUGHT not to think/act for himself? That he doesn''t guide himself based on his own judgement?"

Your comment wasn''t about pushing orders and discipline - your comment was that pushing orders and discipline MAY RESULT in someone who is so "over disciplined" that he may not be able to think or act fo himself, thereby joining the military where he wouldn''t have to do so. Mara''s comment was that she doesn''t believe that over disciplining results in someone who can''t think nor act for himself. And I agree.

Not to defend PP, as she can do fine for herself (and should be able to take the heat just fine) but I thought your comment was just a thinly veiled insult and an attempt to poke PP, as you feel like she''s done to others.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 5/2/2009 12:11:48 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 5/2/2009 11:41:02 AM
Author: MC

Date: 5/1/2009 5:45:56 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Ditto. I think MC was grasping at straws on that one.

And having met Greg, I agree, he''s a winner.

I''m not sure where this is coming from. I wasn''t talking about Greg. I was just motioning to the similarity between PP''s strict parenting and how the military takes a similar approach to pushing orders and discipline (my post was specific to her comments). Greg wasn''t in the military, was he?

I wasn''t implying that strict parenting results in mindless drones. . .

Naw, you were just implying that people that choose the military can''t think for themselves and function best taking orders

Then you got called out on it and now you''re trying to act all victim-y. Backpeddle much?

Fine. You seem especially proud of your son. That is fabulous. Everything he''s done in his life, you admire very much. Possibly he''s gone on his own path or possibly every decision he''s made had been to be sure to gain your respect because his entire life has been about making sure he stays in line for you. Of course, this is all speculation. On the internet people can say pretty much anything at all. For all we know, your son is actually a high school drop out or you just made him up. Or, as you said, he''s a great kid. I honestly do not care.

I''m not acting all "victim-y." I just think it''s a waste of time going on and on with you because you almost always find an excuse to brag about how great of a parent you are and never look to that fact that know one is perfect.

It was great that one time you told a woman on here that she should have thought more about whether or not to have a child before having to move back in with her parents. . .you said it was "water under the bridge now." Nice!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 5/2/2009 3:33:17 PM
Author: TravelingGal
but I thought your comment was just a thinly veiled insult and an attempt to poke PP, as you feel like she''s done to others.

No, she just seems to continually imply that her generation were much better parents than the ones today. It''s nonsense that any parent could possibly be perfect. When a mother continually expresses this, I tend to think there is more going on there.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/2/2009 4:15:06 PM
Author: MC

Date: 5/2/2009 3:33:17 PM
Author: TravelingGal
but I thought your comment was just a thinly veiled insult and an attempt to poke PP, as you feel like she''s done to others.

No, she just seems to continually imply that her generation were much better parents than the ones today. It''s nonsense that any parent could possibly be perfect. When a mother continually expresses this, I tend to think there is more going on there.

MC, I think you''re just taking it personally, or wanted to take PP down a notch. From what I read, she has no problem taking herself down a few notches (like the thread on housing, where she does a fine job.)

I actually agree with her. I think her generation of parenting did do a better job in terms of discipline, but no one can say for sure because our kids aren''t grown up yet. However, I do see a lot of insanely misbehaved kids these days. But her generation (and my mom''s) also worked more and maybe spent time with the kids less, so who''s to say who is actually doing a better job?

In this day and age, there are a lot of differing parenting philosophies. Yours and hers are different, is all. I''m sure everyone''s kids will turn out fine. Personally, I am more in line with stricter parenting. That''s just me. From what I can see, you coddle your kids more (I''m making this assumption based on some of your recent threads, like moving from your townhome because you think your kids need a yard and don''t need stern neighbors), and that''s fine. To each her own.

 

[TravelingGal]

Speaking of letting kids do whatever, just saw a video of a 2 year old that got into mensa...

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2009/04/30/harrison.uk.2.year.old.mensa.itn

Her father says on the clip that she can do whatever she likes, and if she doesn''t want to do anything, they don''t make her. I think they are overcompensating because they don''t want to seem like they are pushing the child, but hm...a 2 year old who can do whatever she wants? Years 3, 4 and 5 should be interesting....

 

[Mara]

the funniest thing re: all the debates on how best to raise one''s child is that... no matter what you do as a parent, no matter how well you try to parent them, make them ready (whatever that actually entails in someone''s world)... chances are still good that in the future they will still look at you as a parent and think you could have done better.

as MC said no one is perfect when it comes to parenting. it''s kind of ironic to me that people always get into issues about how others raise their kids...as you said TG it''s interesting to see people who were just close friends before become parents), but in the end i don''t think i know one adult who has NEVER thought ''hey you know what, my parents could have done X and Y better''.

probably moreso when it comes to kids newly out on their own. i know my early 20''s was filled with much mental grumbling and griping about how much better i might have been prepared for LIFE (mostly around finances). and i think overall my parents, esp my Mom who raised me alone til i was 8, did a great job with what they were given. but there''s always room for improvement.

so the irony is in the end you might fight with strangers or friends over disagreements on parenting styles etc...but 20 years later no one is really ''right''...hehee. just depends how much or little therapy the kid has had to have i guess.

 

[purrfectpear]

MC, you clearly haven''t actually followed many of my posts on threads about kids. I don''t think there are too many PS''rs who have who would be thinking that I believed I was a superior parent

You must have missed the post where I said my philosophy was "I say if the kid''s still alive at the end of the day, my job is done"? I wasn''t kidding. I was actually a fairly hands off single parent. I raised my son to be as independent as possible, not because I believed that was best for him (though I do think it''s important) but because it was best for ME. I didn''t even plan on being a parent, so believe me when I say "mommy of the year" was never part of my plans

How you ever got the idea that I thought I was a great parent is mind boggling. Seriously LOL. I didn''t even like being a parent and have made no pretense of it on PS

I think that stricter parenting in general produces a better mannered child, but that''s about the extent of my parenting philosophy.

 

[softly softly]

Date: 5/2/2009 6:20:20 PM
Author: Mara
the funniest thing re: all the debates on how best to raise one''s child is that... no matter what you do as a parent, no matter how well you try to parent them, make them ready (whatever that actually entails in someone''s world)... chances are still good that in the future they will still look at you as a parent and think you could have done better.


as MC said no one is perfect when it comes to parenting. it''s kind of ironic to me that people always get into issues about how others raise their kids...as you said TG it''s interesting to see people who were just close friends before become parents), but in the end i don''t think i know one adult who has NEVER thought ''hey you know what, my parents could have done X and Y better''.


probably moreso when it comes to kids newly out on their own. i know my early 20''s was filled with much mental grumbling and griping about how much better i might have been prepared for LIFE (mostly around finances). and i think overall my parents, esp my Mom who raised me alone til i was 8, did a great job with what they were given. but there''s always room for improvement.


so the irony is in the end you might fight with strangers or friends over disagreements on parenting styles etc...but 20 years later no one is really ''right''...hehee. just depends how much or little therapy the kid has had to have i guess.

Mara your post makes me think of the famous Philip Larkin poem (which I won''t quote in case the language offends) and as a parent myself it is a concept that resonates in a whole different way than it did in my late teens and early twenties. The point you make about getting to the point as an adult where you realise that your parents actually did the best they could with what they had is a good one. I guess at the end of the day all we can do is use our best judgment and hope that we raise kids who become thoughtful adults who will one day appreciate our efforts, or at the very least who will recognise that we did the best we could.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 5/2/2009 4:25:01 PM
Author: TravelingGal
MC, I think you''re just taking it personally, or wanted to take PP down a notch. From what I read, she has no problem taking herself down a few notches (like the thread on housing, where she does a fine job.)

I actually agree with her. I think her generation of parenting did do a better job in terms of discipline, but no one can say for sure because our kids aren''t grown up yet. However, I do see a lot of insanely misbehaved kids these days. But her generation (and my mom''s) also worked more and maybe spent time with the kids less, so who''s to say who is actually doing a better job?

In this day and age, there are a lot of differing parenting philosophies. Yours and hers are different, is all. I''m sure everyone''s kids will turn out fine. Personally, I am more in line with stricter parenting. That''s just me. From what I can see, you coddle your kids more (I''m making this assumption based on some of your recent threads, like moving from your townhome because you think your kids need a yard and don''t need stern neighbors), and that''s fine. To each her own.

We moved also because my husband and I wanted a yard. I could not stand being without a garden and dirt to play in. The decision was based on the desire for the whole family to have a better living environment. *I* also wanted a formal living room and a bigger master bathroom. All that fun stuff that comes with a house. We wouldn''t choose to pay as much more per month as are if only to give the kids room to run. There are plenty of free parks where that can be done! Plus, I absolutely hated being crammed in like that!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 5/2/2009 6:28:16 PM
Author: purrfectpear
MC, you clearly haven't actually followed many of my posts on threads about kids. I don't think there are too many PS'rs who have who would be thinking that I believed I was a superior parent

You must have missed the post where I said my philosophy was 'I say if the kid's still alive at the end of the day, my job is done'? I wasn't kidding. I was actually a fairly hands off single parent. I raised my son to be as independent as possible, not because I believed that was best for him (though I do think it's important) but because it was best for ME. I didn't even plan on being a parent, so believe me when I say 'mommy of the year' was never part of my plans

How you ever got the idea that I thought I was a great parent is mind boggling. Seriously LOL. I didn't even like being a parent and have made no pretense of it on PS

I think that stricter parenting in general produces a better mannered child, but that's about the extent of my parenting philosophy.

Okay. Of course I haven't read all your posts. . .I select and choose which threads to follow, just like many here (I would guess - who has time to read ALL the threads?

)

It's just when you say, in reference to your son, things like," He stood by me in stores, did NOT touch anything, was practically silent in restaurants (using good table manners), and could basically be taken anywhere and fully expected to behave like a gentleman.", it comes off as if you expressing you were a "superior parent," with your ability to keep your son in line. It gives *me* the impression that you're implying this. FWIW, I let my sons touch things. When we're in the store and one of them drops a glass jar of strawberry jam on the aisle floor, we just run for it!

 

[natalina]

Date: 5/2/2009 7:51:30 PM
Author: MC

Date: 5/2/2009 6:28:16 PM
Author: purrfectpear
MC, you clearly haven''t actually followed many of my posts on threads about kids. I don''t think there are too many PS''rs who have who would be thinking that I believed I was a superior parent

You must have missed the post where I said my philosophy was ''I say if the kid''s still alive at the end of the day, my job is done''? I wasn''t kidding. I was actually a fairly hands off single parent. I raised my son to be as independent as possible, not because I believed that was best for him (though I do think it''s important) but because it was best for ME. I didn''t even plan on being a parent, so believe me when I say ''mommy of the year'' was never part of my plans

How you ever got the idea that I thought I was a great parent is mind boggling. Seriously LOL. I didn''t even like being a parent and have made no pretense of it on PS

I think that stricter parenting in general produces a better mannered child, but that''s about the extent of my parenting philosophy.

Okay. Of course I haven''t read all your posts. . .I select and choose which threads to follow, just like many here (I would guess - who has time to read ALL the threads?

)

It''s just when you say, in reference to your son, things like,'' He stood by me in stores, did NOT touch anything, was practically silent in restaurants (using good table manners), and could basically be taken anywhere and fully expected to behave like a gentleman.'', it comes off as if you expressing you were a ''superior parent,'' with your ability to keep your son in line. It gives *me* the impression that you''re implying this. FWIW, I let my sons touch things. When we''re in the store and one of them drops a glass jar of strawberry jam on the aisle floor, we just run for it!

I hesitate to even get involved in this discussion, but I just had to say that I really hope you''re kidding about the above highlighted statement. I hope you''re being sarcastic, because it would really be sad if someone was teaching their children that this behavior is okay.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 5/2/2009 8:53:06 PM
Author: natalina

Date: 5/2/2009 7:51:30 PM
Author: MC

Date: 5/2/2009 6:28:16 PM
Author: purrfectpear
MC, you clearly haven''t actually followed many of my posts on threads about kids. I don''t think there are too many PS''rs who have who would be thinking that I believed I was a superior parent

You must have missed the post where I said my philosophy was ''I say if the kid''s still alive at the end of the day, my job is done''? I wasn''t kidding. I was actually a fairly hands off single parent. I raised my son to be as independent as possible, not because I believed that was best for him (though I do think it''s important) but because it was best for ME. I didn''t even plan on being a parent, so believe me when I say ''mommy of the year'' was never part of my plans

How you ever got the idea that I thought I was a great parent is mind boggling. Seriously LOL. I didn''t even like being a parent and have made no pretense of it on PS

I think that stricter parenting in general produces a better mannered child, but that''s about the extent of my parenting philosophy.

Okay. Of course I haven''t read all your posts. . .I select and choose which threads to follow, just like many here (I would guess - who has time to read ALL the threads?

)

It''s just when you say, in reference to your son, things like,'' He stood by me in stores, did NOT touch anything, was practically silent in restaurants (using good table manners), and could basically be taken anywhere and fully expected to behave like a gentleman.'', it comes off as if you expressing you were a ''superior parent,'' with your ability to keep your son in line. It gives *me* the impression that you''re implying this. FWIW, I let my sons touch things. When we''re in the store and one of them drops a glass jar of strawberry jam on the aisle floor, we just run for it!

I hesitate to even get involved in this discussion, but I just had to say that I really hope you''re kidding about the above highlighted statement. I hope you''re being sarcastic, because it would really be sad if someone was teaching their children that this behavior is okay.

I AM JOKING!!!

 

[natalina]

Phew! I was hoping you would say that!!! Sorry if I was being dense...

 

[hlmr]

It is so hurtful when we witness others being unkind to our children, but the reality is that they are going to experience this quite regularly during their childhood and into adulthood.

I know I have always wanted to protect my guy from everything over the years, and would have no qualms about taking on anyone who I deemed to be cruel to him, but the reality is that for the most part, I knew interfering wouldn''t serve him any good purpose, and so I chose to empower him at home so he could work through difficult situations with my guidance.

Mother bear instinct is always there, and I do empathize with your experience MC, but realize that albeit hurtful for you to witness, it probably wasn''t that bad for him.