Now I know I expect too much re: people being friendly toward my kids.

[purrfectpear]

Date: 4/30/2009 1:19:30 PM
Author: mrssalvo
perfectpear, Do you have your own children?

ETA: just curious because I''ve noticed responses seems to different amongst the gals with no kids, with small kids and the gals with kids that are around the same ages as MC''s.

Yes, I had a son in 1983. If someone had chastised him I would have asked him what HE did to cause that, before I would have concerned myself with berating the person doing the chastisement.

I''m very, very, liberal in most things, but I''m "old skool" when it comes to discipline. He stood by me in stores, did NOT touch anything, was practically silent in restaurants (using good table manners), and could basically be taken anywhere and fully expected to behave like a gentleman.

 

[steph72276]

My child is very well behaved as well. He plays well with other children, we go out to eat all the time and he stays in his seat and is quiet and his teacher has said that he always follows directions and is very polite. Just because I don't want some stranger yelling or talking in a mean way to my child doesn't mean that I coddle him or let him run wild.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 4/30/2009 1:45:35 PM
Author: steph72276

Date: 4/30/2009 1:30:31 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 4/30/2009 12:48:01 PM

Author: purrfectpear

Date: 4/30/2009 12:15:15 PM

Author: steph72276

I think some people really just don''t know how to talk to kids and feel entitled to speak down to children just because they are older. Since she has children and it was in a school, she should have known better. I would have been mad too and the mama bear in me would have come out....you can speak to your own child in a mean/stern way, but if I hear you speaking to my child in an mean way, there''s gonna be some words.

Steph, if it''s your child that''s running around unsupervised, or yelling, or blocking the doorway, you can bet ''there''s gonna be some words'' and most of them you won''t want your child to hear.


Mama bear or not, I''ll speak sternly to anyone''s child that needs it. If the mama''s don''t want their little precious to be reprimanded they''d better make sure they''re towing the line. ''Mamas'' need to understand clearly that the rest of the world does not revolve around their children, and we don''t wish to be afflicted with poor behavior.

I agree. I''ll speak to other kids in a stern way and if someone does that to my kid and it''s justified (which it probably would be), I''ll be explaining to my kid why they were told what they were told.


That doesn''t mean I''m going to run around chastising other people''s kids. That''s their responsibility. But if they are doing something that affects me or my child, then yes, I will say something. If possible, to the parent first, if present.


It is RIDICULOUS how kids are coddled these days. When my brother told me there were baseball little leagues that no longer kept score, I just thought that was ridiculous. There ARE winners AND losers in life. Learning how to accept defeat graciously and striving to improve the next go around is something we all need to learn as it comes in handy in ADULTHOOD as well. As far as I''m concerned, Amelia is not just my ''kid'' - she is my future productive member of society too, God willing!

Sorry, but have to disagree with you on this one, TGAL. My son is 4 years old. He is on his first real sports team this year. He is playing t-ball and no, they do not keep score. Every kid gets a chance to bat 3 times and make it around the bases. They are LEARNING how to hit, throw, work as a team, and show good sportmanship. I do not think there is anything wrong with that. When it becomes so competitive that the parents are yelling at their children, it takes the fun out of the game and some kids will stop playing sports all together. Yes, when they are older, I agree the teams should keep score. And yes, we play board games and let him loose sometimes and talk about the importance of being a gracious looser, but it''s important for kids to actually have FUN when they are starting out in sports or they will not want to continue to play.

Steph, to clarify, I am not talking about FOUR. I''m talking about 7 or 8. GRADE school. I did tee ball in the 70''s and I don''t recall them keeping score on the board. It was more for fun. But when you got into the "minor" league of our baseball program, you bet they kept score.

So I agree with you on the tots - I don''t think that is much different from when we were kids. My friend coaches baseball to 8 year olds and they do not keep score. They live in the suburb that Bill Gates does (I can''t recall the name...I think it''s Medina?) so it is an affluent area.

 

[steph72276]

Ok, gotcha TGAL

. And I do agree that at 7 or 8, they should keep score and they should learn how to win and lose gracefully.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 4/30/2009 2:17:55 PM
Author: steph72276
Ok, gotcha TGAL

. And I do agree that at 7 or 8, they should keep score and they should learn how to win and lose gracefully.

Yup - at four, you''re just trying to corral them into running the right direction!!

 

[Italiahaircolor]

The talk about sports makes me think of the Pond Hockey documentary...they talk a lot about how "everyone is a winner" now and that''s not how it used to be...

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 4/30/2009 2:08:23 PM
Author: steph72276
My child is very well behaved as well. He plays well with other children, we go out to eat all the time and he stays in his seat and is quiet and his teacher has said that he always follows directions and is very polite. Just because I don''t want some stranger yelling or talking in a mean way to my child doesn''t mean that I coddle him or let him run wild.

Then you wouldn''t have to worry about a stranger yelling or talking mean to him. Again, those sort of things happen to kids that are acting out, in the way, or in general making a real horse''s butt out of themselves

 

[Mara]

TGAL:
It is RIDICULOUS how kids are coddled these days. When my brother told me there were baseball little leagues that no longer kept score, I just thought that was ridiculous. There ARE winners AND losers in life. Learning how to accept defeat graciously and striving to improve the next go around is something we all need to learn as it comes in handy in ADULTHOOD as well. As far as I'm concerned, Amelia is not just my "kid" - she is my future productive member of society too, God willing!

______

I agree on the above... this latest generation is soo different from how I was raised. And not like I was raised perfectly, but I would take it hands down over this molly-coddling generation. aka why did the teacher GIVE you that grade. My Mom is a teacher and she hears this all the time from parents...teaching now is almost as much working with the PARENTS as it is actually working with the kids. It was not like that 20 years ago when my Mom got into it.

All of the above is something that the 'generational speaker' that we had last fall told us about. This generation of kids are so used to their parents running interference for them on so many aspects, being very well taken care of and protected, being 'listened to' and a lot of them treat their parents like friends. They expect a lot of praise and constructive criticism that is very soft and considerate. It will be interesting to watch them enter the work force because for now they are a huge minority and I wonder if they will have a rude awakening.

I know that is not ALL parents or kids, but it definitely leans more that way and it will be interesting because I think that so many new parents or non-parents YET (like me) are hyper-aware of just how extreme it is, and might lean back the other way consciously to try to bring things back into balance. I know some might say well this is a better way etc...and I know there are countless 'opinions' on child-rearing, but I prefer the way I was raised because I turned out pretty good IMO.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 4/30/2009 4:15:21 PM
Author: Mara
TGAL:
It is RIDICULOUS how kids are coddled these days. When my brother told me there were baseball little leagues that no longer kept score, I just thought that was ridiculous. There ARE winners AND losers in life. Learning how to accept defeat graciously and striving to improve the next go around is something we all need to learn as it comes in handy in ADULTHOOD as well. As far as I''m concerned, Amelia is not just my ''kid'' - she is my future productive member of society too, God willing!

______

I agree on the above... this latest generation is soo different from how I was raised. And not like I was raised perfectly, but I would take it hands down over this molly-coddling generation. aka why did the teacher GIVE you that grade. My Mom is a teacher and she hears this all the time from parents...teaching now is almost as much working with the PARENTS as it is actually working with the kids. It was not like that 20 years ago when my Mom got into it.

All of the above is something that the ''generational speaker'' that we had last fall told us about. This generation of kids are so used to their parents running interference for them on so many aspects, being very well taken care of and protected, being ''listened to'' and a lot of them treat their parents like friends. They expect a lot of praise and constructive criticism that is very soft and considerate. It will be interesting to watch them enter the work force because for now they are a huge minority and I wonder if they will have a rude awakening.

I know that is not ALL parents or kids, but it definitely leans more that way and it will be interesting because I think that so many new parents or non-parents YET (like me) are hyper-aware of just how extreme it is, and might lean back the other way consciously to try to bring things back into balance. I know some might say well this is a better way etc...and I know there are countless ''opinions'' on child-rearing, but I prefer the way I was raised because I turned out pretty good IMO.

It''s not only that Mara...we are seeing the effects of the way today''s children are raised. There are plenty of folks in our generation who didn''t turn out so well, but as a whole I think gen X did OK. I''m not too sure about kids these days. (OMG, did I actually say that? I''m getting old...)

C''s were not acceptable when I was growing up. Today, it means you''re doing "average" and that''s fine. Of course, many of my friends had parents who went too far the other way- asking why the "minus" was there on an A-.

Mara, you''ll find it even more agitating should you and Greg have kids. Because it directly affects you and your child. I see it already with my friends. We raise our kids differently and it''s beginning to manifest where I do not agree with some behavioral issues. That makes it tough when you start do things with other families, who were once simply your friends.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Mara, your thing about the teachers struck a cord with me...

I have a co-worker, E, who has three sons (ages: 10, 8, and 4). She''s a working mom and feels guilt (I know this for a fact) for not being around as much as she''d like to be. On the occasions that I''ve spent time with E and her boys...I can only take it in small doses, because her guilt has lead her to "molly-coddling".

Her oldest son (10) doesn''t like his teacher (back in the day, my mom would have said "tough") but E instead blames her sons disinterest on the teachers level of ability, claims the teachers lesson plans are confusing for her son, and over-all takes the blame for his bad attitude off him and puts it on the teacher. I''ve seen many times where she has done her sons homework, printed it out, and given it to him to turn it.

. I was so turned off by this!

I think children need to learn simple lessons in life like: you''re not always going to like everyone...or...life isn''t fair. These things will serve them far better than "oh-my-honey-bunny-you''re-just-perfect" ever will. I am not saying that kids need a kick-in-the-pants when they do something wrong...but babies aren''t born with "fear" or "awareness" these are things that are nutured into them over time...and it''s a parents responsibility to do this. You can''t always be the good cop.

If kids don''t learn these things either by example or structurized learning...then we''ll all be walking around with everyone sticking their fingers into door-jams.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 4/30/2009 4:27:05 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
Mara, your thing about the teachers struck a cord with me...

I have a co-worker, E, who has three sons (ages: 10, 8, and 4). She''s a working mom and feels guilt (I know this for a fact) for not being around as much as she''d like to be. On the occasions that I''ve spent time with E and her boys...I can only take it in small doses, because her guilt has lead her to ''molly-coddling''.

Her oldest son (10) doesn''t like his teacher (back in the day, my mom would have said ''tough'') but E instead blames her sons disinterest on the teachers level of ability, claims the teachers lesson plans are confusing for her son, and over-all takes the blame for his bad attitude off him and puts it on the teacher. I''ve seen many times where she has done her sons homework, printed it out, and given it to him to turn it.

. I was so turned off by this!

I think children need to learn simple lessons in life like: you''re not always going to like everyone...or...life isn''t fair. These things will serve them far better than ''oh-my-honey-bunny-you''re-just-perfect'' ever will. I am not saying that kids need a kick-in-the-pants when they do something wrong...but babies aren''t born with ''fear'' or ''awareness'' these are things that are nutured into them over time...and it''s a parents responsibility to do this. You can''t always be the good cop.

If kids don''t learn these things either by example or structurized learning...then we''ll all be walking around with everyone sticking their fingers into door-jams.

Your friend isn''t the only one who does this.

Look, my kid is the most precious thing in the world to me. My goal is to have her be self sufficient because I hope to leave the earth before she does and I want to die knowing she''s competent. That means knowing how to deal with life! That means knowing that if you don''t do your homework, the teacher will get mad at you (and these days, they don''t get mad enough because everyone is so afraid of parents and getting sued, but don''t get me started!) and there will be consequences!

I told the story here once here of a friend of mine who put her son to bed at 9:30pm on a good day (many times it was midnight, sometimes even 1 am). Well, that night was a good night and he was in bed. My other friend and I were preggo and she had a cookie craving so we baked cookies. They were good so Friend #1 asked us if she should WAKE HER SON UP because she wanted him to taste the fresh baked cookies. WTF???? And of course he did come down because he never stays in bed, and instead of telling him to go right back to bed, she said, "Come here, try these cookies!" She said he could only have one, but did she stick with that? Nope. He got another cookie when he threw a fit.

This same kid just got a haircut a month ago (he had longer hair for some time). I saw him and said, "Nice haircut!." Was there a thank you? Nope. He just looked at me in a disinterested way and said, "I know."

Well, at least he seems to have confidence.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 4/30/2009 4:27:05 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor


Her oldest son (10) doesn''t like his teacher (back in the day, my mom would have said ''tough'') but E instead blames her sons disinterest on the teachers level of ability, claims the teachers lesson plans are confusing for her son, and over-all takes the blame for his bad attitude off him and puts it on the teacher. I''ve seen many times where she has done her sons homework, printed it out, and given it to him to turn it.

. I was so turned off by this!

My dad once grounded an entire summer for getting a NI (needs improvement) in school. AND when he could tell that I was using him for answers, he''d give me the death stare.

On the coddling issue: I see the difference all the time between myself and my brothers. I wasn''t coddled. Growing up, the neighbors were allowed to send me home if they saw me doing something I wasn''t supposed to be doing. And when I got home, the neighbor had already called...and it wasn''t pretty

My brothers were coddled though. My mom regrets it. The boys are struggling with everything because they just don''t know how to take care of themselves and they''re extremely sensitive.

 

[janinegirly]

Seems like many of us feel the same way..maybe we''ll see a backlash in parenting styles among our generation!

A few of my comments:

*I''ve seen many Gen Y''ers (lets say mid 20''s) who have a sense of entitlement due to over coddling during childhood. They obviously have not been taught humility or the value of work ethic. I see that *some* of them tend to be either lazy or overly demanding as a result. Specifically I''ve seen young co-workers demanding raises before they''ve even served one year..and yet they''ll just march into the boss''s office saying they deserve more. On the other end of the spectrum, I''ve seen a trend among somer cousins, friends'' younger brothers to mooch off the parents for unlimited periods. Not because of some legitimate reason, but due to laziness (have college degrees their parents struggled to pay for) and not wanting to wlork/struggle/start at the bottom. NOTE: not trying to insult anyone, just speaking of a trend that''s been documented in various articles and my own experience.

*schools/teachers being blamed: I have a friend who is a math teacher in the NYC public school system. High School. I don''t know how she does it. She''s a very gentle person (midwesterner) and she has told me stories I can''t believe. Kids not only talking back, texting during class and having entire conversations and ignoring her! She tries to discipline but they have zero respect for elders! A call to the parents results in nothing since they either aren''t home OR more often, scream at her for treating their kids this way. THEN she went on to tell me she really wanted to fail 2/3ds of the class, but her superiors told her there needed to be more passes and to curve the grades. I don''t know if this goes on in other urban public schools, but very disheartening and I''m scared for my daughter''s generation sometimes!

 

[steph72276]

I think my outlook on things also comes from a safety viewpoint too. Back in the day when we were kids, parents trusted other parents....in today''s world, I don''t really want any strangers talking to my son, be it good, bad or indifferent. There are some real nutjobs out there, and I don''t care for random strangers telling my son anything.

 

[ChargerGrrl]

This thread came to mind today as I was leaving Costco during my lunch hour. I had just finished up with the cashier, and was making my way to the door with receipt in hand. A small child cut me off on the way- she was running away from mommy, over to daddy at the food stand. I came **this close** to hitting her with my heavy cart. My first instinct was to yell out "WHOA!"- i didn''t say it so she''d stop, it just came out. Well, she stopped in her tracks and looked at me. So I said "watch where you''re going, hun!" Mommy glares at me and mouths "screw you". I just smiled and gave her a thumbs up.

I figured that it wasn''t worth getting into it with her!

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 4/30/2009 7:46:15 PM
Author: ChargerGrrl
This thread came to mind today as I was leaving Costco during my lunch hour. I had just finished up with the cashier, and was making my way to the door with receipt in hand. A small child cut me off on the way- she was running away from mommy, over to daddy at the food stand. I came **this close** to hitting her with my heavy cart. My first instinct was to yell out ''WHOA!''- i didn''t say it so she''d stop, it just came out. Well, she stopped in her tracks and looked at me. So I said ''watch where you''re going, hun!'' Mommy glares at me and mouths ''screw you''. I just smiled and gave her a thumbs up.

I figured that it wasn''t worth getting into it with her!

If you would have hit her with the cart it would have been your fault the way that mother is.

 

[steph72276]

Charger, that stinks. The mother should have apologized and talked to the little girl about how she could get hurt by running in front of someone like that. But see, you were nice in how you told the girl to watch out...you didn''t say "get out of the way!". The mom was way out line...sorry!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/30/2009 7:46:15 PM
Author: ChargerGrrl
This thread came to mind today as I was leaving Costco during my lunch hour. I had just finished up with the cashier, and was making my way to the door with receipt in hand. A small child cut me off on the way- she was running away from mommy, over to daddy at the food stand. I came **this close** to hitting her with my heavy cart. My first instinct was to yell out ''WHOA!''- i didn''t say it so she''d stop, it just came out. Well, she stopped in her tracks and looked at me. So I said ''watch where you''re going, hun!'' Mommy glares at me and mouths ''screw you''. I just smiled and gave her a thumbs up.


I figured that it wasn''t worth getting into it with her!

People like that shouldn''t procreate. They really shouldn''t.

 

[packrat]

My husband and I often discuss the differences between the generations..we were born in the early 70''s, and even in 35 years, which really isn''t that long of a time period, it''s completely different. He calls it "Hands Across America". He''s kind of like Grumpy Old Man from Saturday Night Live.

Real quick on the subject of text being a different size..I figured this out after my 2 year old kept touching the keyboard and changing my font size. After a lot of frustration trying to read miniscule letters on my screen, I realized the combination is holding down the control key while your scrolling the mouse. Control and scroll up is bigger, control and scroll down is smaller!

 

[Burk]

Date: 4/30/2009 8:51:29 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 4/30/2009 7:46:15 PM

Author: ChargerGrrl

This thread came to mind today as I was leaving Costco during my lunch hour. I had just finished up with the cashier, and was making my way to the door with receipt in hand. A small child cut me off on the way- she was running away from mommy, over to daddy at the food stand. I came **this close** to hitting her with my heavy cart. My first instinct was to yell out ''WHOA!''- i didn''t say it so she''d stop, it just came out. Well, she stopped in her tracks and looked at me. So I said ''watch where you''re going, hun!'' Mommy glares at me and mouths ''screw you''. I just smiled and gave her a thumbs up.



I figured that it wasn''t worth getting into it with her!

People like that shouldn''t procreate. They really shouldn''t.

Amen Neat!!



I''m a teacher and we had a situation at my school today that made me think about this thread. A team of teachers at my school has been having problems with a group of students who are refusing to do work, rude to teachers, hate school, overall just problem kids. The teachers and administration have had the parents of the students in over and over to try and get support at home. Well, today the teachers get an email from one of the parents (whose child is failing EVERY class) to say that her child would be absent all next week because.....wait for it......their family is going to Disney World!! Yep, that''s right, their child is not passing one class and to reward him for his amazing behavior that child gets to go on a week long vacation!

 

[LaraOnline]

Well that''s a mystery solved! Thanks!

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 4/30/2009 9:16:07 PM
Author: packrat

Real quick on the subject of text being a different size..I figured this out after my 2 year old kept touching the keyboard and changing my font size. After a lot of frustration trying to read miniscule letters on my screen, I realized the combination is holding down the control key while your scrolling the mouse. Control and scroll up is bigger, control and scroll down is smaller!

Well that''s a mystery solved! Thanks!

 

[swimmer]

Charger that is sadly something I see all the time. I actually avoid Whole Foods in one hood for this reason, strangely enough the veggie stand/bodega in my hood has much better behaved children than the upscale burbs... just an observation.

Last semester one of my graduate students (so at least 21 or so) had her mother call the dean about another professor. A GRADUATE STUDENT! Mommy wanted to know if the university was doing all that it could to support her daughter''s needs. Wow, I mean, if you can''t advocate for yourself at that age, when will you develop those skills? This daughter will be a high school teacher in the fall...I fear for our schools when both the students and the teachers are so very fragile and unprepared for the world.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 4/30/2009 7:46:15 PM
Author: ChargerGrrl
This thread came to mind today as I was leaving Costco during my lunch hour. I had just finished up with the cashier, and was making my way to the door with receipt in hand. A small child cut me off on the way- she was running away from mommy, over to daddy at the food stand. I came **this close** to hitting her with my heavy cart. My first instinct was to yell out 'WHOA!'- i didn't say it so she'd stop, it just came out. Well, she stopped in her tracks and looked at me. So I said 'watch where you're going, hun!' Mommy glares at me and mouths 'screw you'. I just smiled and gave her a thumbs up.

I figured that it wasn't worth getting into it with her!

If my son was almost hit by a cart, I would be very mad at him for running off. Even at 6, he still sometimes gets in the way but never when a cart is going fast in Costco (in fact, I don't even shop there because of the carts being so full and how crowded it is. I don't like my kids being in there WITH the over-filled carts people have). I've told him many times that if another cart bumps him, it's because he's not watching out! lol He knows.

GargerGrrl - Recently I responded to a mom for her saying something to confront me when her child was acting out. . . (similar to that mom mouthing "screw you," and not in a rude manner like you mentioned she did, but in a straight forward manner). A month or so back, we were at a play area and there was a child hitting my son. The mom looked up and said to him go play with someone else because that child is being a brat. HER son was hitting mine. I turned to her and told her to watch her own child and to grow up because she was "text messaging," rather than watching her child. I can't remember what else was said, but after our "discussion," she went right back to text messaging.

Anyway, Steph already brought up that my son was NOT acting poorly. He stopped in a door way. Kids do that all the time. In fact, in the entryway, often parents stop and mingle RIGHT THERE. His behavior wasn't out of the ordinary. I cannot imaging being MAD at him and expecting him to appologize the way PP states a mom should. That is ridulous because my son wasn't hurting anyone and the woman was being rude. If she had been polite, I would have returned that politness. I won't be nice to a person who demonstrates rudeness to me or my family. I won't kiss someone's back side!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 4/30/2009 1:53:11 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Yes, I had a son in 1983. If someone had chastised him I would have asked him what HE did to cause that, before I would have concerned myself with berating the person doing the chastisement.

I'm very, very, liberal in most things, but I'm 'old skool' when it comes to discipline. He stood by me in stores, did NOT touch anything, was practically silent in restaurants (using good table manners), and could basically be taken anywhere and fully expected to behave like a gentleman.

PP - I know you won't take this the wrong way, as you like to say what's on your mind and I would hope you'd respect that from others as well. . .Isn't your son in the military? Do you think that in any way he is so because he's been raised to behave entirely upon orders received by others? That he cannot plan out his own actions because he's been so over disaplined and TAUGHT not to think/act for himself? That he doesn't guide himself based on his own judgement?

Of course, to the others here who have military family/friends, I'm NOT saying being in the military means is always due to that. . . I'm saying in PP's case, I venture to guess there is a similarity.

FWIW, I would feel bad for a child who could never touch anything in the store. My children know not to pick up glass objects, but not touching ANYTHING? I love my kids to have that stimulation. They pick out their own fruit at the grocery store and I often send them down an aisle to pick out a bag of goldfish crackers or another item, like a yogurt. I also let my son push the grocery cart on days when the store is nearly empty. I walk to the side of it to be sure he doesn't crash into anything.

Oh, and I think it's important that a child TALKS when eating in a resturant. My kids and I always talk about what they will order and when the waitress comes, they order their food!

 

[sap483]

I wanted to weigh in on the topic of children being coddled (MC this isn''t directed at your child in any way, as I realize he wasn''t misbehaving). As a disclaimer, I don''t have children and I''m 26 years old. I was raised like PP''s son, I knew that if I acted out there would be consequences. I was expected to do well in school, no excuses. They also taught me that there was always room for improvement and that I wasn''t entitled to anything- I had to earn it. I am very thankful that my parents raised me this way. I do believe that it has led to the success I''ve enjoyed in my career, and in my personal relationships.

I do agree with the others that I see people my age and younger who constantly need assurance and praise. They believe that they are very special, and deserve more than their peers. I''m seeing this more and more with the interns and new staff that we hire. They want the rewards but don''t want to put in the time.

In this economy when companies are cutting costs and terminating employees that aren''t adding as much value to the company as their peers, IMO, these young adults that have this sense of entitlement are really at a disadvantage. At least at my firm, they have been the first to be let go.

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 5/1/2009 2:05:34 PM
Author: MC

Date: 4/30/2009 1:53:11 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Yes, I had a son in 1983. If someone had chastised him I would have asked him what HE did to cause that, before I would have concerned myself with berating the person doing the chastisement.

I''m very, very, liberal in most things, but I''m ''old skool'' when it comes to discipline. He stood by me in stores, did NOT touch anything, was practically silent in restaurants (using good table manners), and could basically be taken anywhere and fully expected to behave like a gentleman.

PP - I know you won''t take this the wrong way, as you like to say what''s on your mind and I would hope you''d respect that from others as well. . .Isn''t your son in the military? Do you think that in any way he is so because he''s been raised to behave entirely upon orders received by others? That he cannot plan out his own actions because he''s been so over disaplined and TAUGHT not to think/act for himself? That he doesn''t guide himself based on his own judgement?

Of course, to the others here who have military family/friends, I''m NOT saying being in the military means is always due to that. . . I''m saying in PP''s case, I venture to guess there is a similarity.

FWIW, I would feel bad for a child who could never touch anything in the store. My children know not to pick up glass objects, but not touching ANYTHING? I love my kids to have that stimulation. They pick out their own fruit at the grocery store and I often send them down an aisle to pick out a bag of goldfish crackers or another item, like a yogurt. I also let my son push the grocery cart on days when the store is nearly empty. I walk to the side of it to be sure he doesn''t crash into anything.

Oh, and I think it''s important that a child TALKS when eating in a resturant. My kids and I always talk about what they will order and when the waitress comes, they order their food!

Nope, not even close. He''s in the Air Force because he 1. wanted to travel extensively, 2. has been fascinated with flying since he was 4 (momma''s career is in aerospace - he grew up at air shows, playing in a flight simulator, etc.) and is now part of the flight crew, 3. Is a conservative, right wing, patriotic type (got that right wing thing from his dad), and 4. the pay was pretty good for an 18 year old.

Now he''s a Staff Sargeant and gives the orders, rather than taking them

. They bonused him $40K in cash for reupping. He''s been recruited for Special Ops (the black ops you or I will never know about) and is considering it. He will be depending entirely upon his own judgement in the jungle and responsible for many lives.

You seem to think the military is a group of lock step losers. I kinda pity you.

 

[Mara]

"That he cannot plan out his own actions because he''s been so over disaplined and TAUGHT not to think/act for himself? That he doesn''t guide himself based on his own judgement?"

_____

Greg was raised much like PP''s son was...Mom was way more strict than mine was. He didn''t have any problems thinking or acting for himself or striking out on his own. He''s lived in various cities across the US, has multiple degrees, including an MBA from one of the best business schools in the US. He''s done incredibly well for himself, is very intelligent, articulate, musically talented, and obviously a stellar human being since I married him.

Just because ''in the olden days'' parents were super strict with their kids and/or didn''t let them get away with anything does not mean that they grow up to be mindless drones. In fact, almost everyone I know who had very strict parents who expected kids to be seen but not heard turned out just fine and even MORE than fine. This is why (even though I was a little hellion that my Mom had a hard time controlling) I tend to lean towards the stricter parenting of the past, less of the whole ''listen to little Bobby''s feelings'' and/or treating them like little adults. They are NOT adults. They are kids..and they depend on the parents to help show them the way to be in the world around them.

 

[qtiekiki]

Date: 5/1/2009 5:01:03 PM
Author: Mara

Ditto. The last sentence is the KEY.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/1/2009 5:01:03 PM
Author: Mara
''That he cannot plan out his own actions because he''s been so over disaplined and TAUGHT not to think/act for himself? That he doesn''t guide himself based on his own judgement?''

_____

Greg was raised much like PP''s son was...Mom was way more strict than mine was. He didn''t have any problems thinking or acting for himself or striking out on his own. He''s lived in various cities across the US, has multiple degrees, including an MBA from one of the best business schools in the US. He''s done incredibly well for himself, is very intelligent, articulate, musically talented, and obviously a stellar human being since I married him.

Just because ''in the olden days'' parents were super strict with their kids and/or didn''t let them get away with anything does not mean that they grow up to be mindless drones. In fact, almost everyone I know who had very strict parents who expected kids to be seen but not heard turned out just fine and even MORE than fine. This is why (even though I was a little hellion that my Mom had a hard time controlling) I tend to lean towards the stricter parenting of the past, less of the whole ''listen to little Bobby''s feelings'' and/or treating them like little adults. They are NOT adults. They are kids..and they depend on the parents to help show them the way to be in the world around them.

Ditto. I think MC was grasping at straws on that one.

And having met Greg, I agree, he''s a winner.