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Noob in buying an engagement ring, help needed

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
I’m on my mobile so maybe I mistyped something. In your case I think the BGD stone is actually a really awesome deal. I’m not worried about the fluor in the least and you are getting an 8% discount on top of the $3,600 wire price which is another $250 or so off the price.

I have no problems looking for other stones but I’d urge you to keep that stone on hold for a bit longer. People do lurk here and will snap up recommendations we make.
No worries. I just realized that the discount applied to my pending order is just 5% ($183.15). I'm asking Lesley why it's not 8% when she told me that the coupon is for an 8% discount. In her defense though, the "share your memory" Diamond Month promotion webpage says "up to 8%" so that might be why.

Yes, I'm sure Lesley will understand why I want it held for a while. I think I can hold it for 30 days.

As promised, side by side comparison of the 0.903 and 1.004 BGD stones I linked earlier. This is using actual diamond measurements, a size 6 finger and 2mm width band.


The smaller stone is on the left. As you can see, the difference is very, very minimal.

Capture0.PNG
Capture1.PNG
Capture2.PNG
Thanks for the side-by-side comparison. And yes, that doesn't seem to be much of a size difference.

Thanks for sharing the AGS link. Does Lesley have an ETA when they will post the video, picture, ASET, idealscope and H&A images? I checked their webpage and those aren't up yet.

The clarity plot looks good for an SI1. Because I am particular with clarity, I would ask Lesley if the stone is 100% eye clean. This is tricky because there is no "universal" definition of eye clean. Many define as 10" away with 20/20 vision from the top only. I am more critical and like to define as 6" away with 20/20 vision from the top, sides & bottom.

I don't anticipate any issues, but given the shipping distance you need to confirm.

Also, the table of 57.1 is just fine. In GIA land, that would be a 57. AGS reports more accurately and the 0.1 isn't going to make any difference. The depth is good. And the c/p relationship looks amazing at 34.6/40.8.

FYI, the LGF's are 76 which I prefer. The smaller the number, the fatter the arrows. It has small effects on other attributes as well, but I don't want to confuse you any further. Short version is this stone has optimal properties for maximum beauty!

I really don't anticipate any issues at all with this stone, but those other images & videos will help solidify this as a top tier selection.
Lesley told me those will get uploaded either by Friday or early next week and that she will send me an email when they're up. I'm checking their site from time to time.

At BGD, how many inches away do they usually consider for a diamon to be eye clean? I do see some of their diamonds have an indication in their product page of being eye clean. I'll ask Lesley about this when the images are up.

Do you happen to know the HCA rating for this one?
In regards to price, let's first set the bar.

BGD Blue, 0.903 @ $3,663 wire - 8% discount ($293) = $3,370
$3,370 / 0.903 carats = $3,732 per carat

That said, here are some possible alternates. These are among some of the better options I'm seeing. Again, just kind of comes down to how much you want to spend. The 0.903 seems to be a really good value for the money and the fact it's a super ideal stone.

Possible alternate #1:
JA True Heart, 1.06ct J-VS2 @ $4,690
$4,425 per carat


Hearts image looks clean. Ideal scope pink is over saturation and looks good. HCA gets excellent score as I found using PS search engine. You would want to request a cert to look at actual values before making a final decision. I am concerned about the black crystal on the top and the stone not being 100% eye clean.

Possible alternate #2:
WF ACA 1.058 @ $4,961 wire
$4,689 per carat


Possible alternate #3:
WF ACA 1.068 J-SI1 @ $5,039 wire
$4,718 per carat


Possible alternate #4:
B2C Jewels Perfection 1.03 J-VVS2 @ $5,254 wire
$5,143 per carat


Not sure what is up with Brian's website. It shows there to be an ASET, idealscope and H&A images, but they are broken when I click on them. If interested, make a call and ask him to fix so we can check them out. Looking at the AGS cert & proportions I assume this will be a top tier diamond.

Possible alternate #5:
WF Premium Select (near miss ACA) 1.11 J-VS2 @ $5,428 wire
$4,890 per carat


Doesn't quite qualify for true H&A status, but it's very close. You get the same trade benefits as an ACA for the future. Might be a good way to gain a little size and clarity although I realize it's at the top of your price range.
Right now, the total I have for the BDG 0.903 diamond is $3663 + $73.98 shipping less $183.15 (5% discount) = $3553.83. I'm still hoping to get that extra 3% but we'll see.

I just checked and unfortunately JA and WF do not ship to the Philippines. I will have to check the other vendors that you recommended but so far BGD and B2CJewels do ship here.

As for that B2C 1.03ct recommendation, I'm able to see all the images in their website. Maybe it was just a temporary bug?

I thought it might be useful to include some further 'real world' context about spread.

Physical spread in millimeters is important. Less talked about, but also related to size appearance, is visual spread - based on whether a diamond returns light from edge to edge in different lighting conditions. For example, the well cut 6.00 mm stone below appears larger, visually, than a 6.25 mm stone of lesser cut quality when both are removed from bright lighting.

Explained in detail on our carat weight page.
https://www.pricescope.com/education/diamond-carat#Visual-Spread

@sledge is known to be a great "cut quality caretaker," so no worries @kevindd992002 . As long as spread was a topic I thought the information might be interesting.

Interesting! Thanks for pointing this out. So size perception really depends on environmental lighting.

I've purchased from Brian Gavin, Whiteflash, and JannPaul, and in my opinion, you can't go wrong with any of them.
That's good to hear. I'm still wating for a response from JannPaul but what is your comment on their prices in general?
 

CutMonkey

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
65
No worries. I just realized that the discount applied to my pending order is just 5% ($183.15). I'm asking Lesley why it's not 8% when she told me that the coupon is for an 8% discount. In her defense though, the "share your memory" Diamond Month promotion webpage says "up to 8%" so that might be why.

Yes, I'm sure Lesley will understand why I want it held for a while. I think I can hold it for 30 days.


Thanks for the side-by-side comparison. And yes, that doesn't seem to be much of a size difference.


Lesley told me those will get uploaded either by Friday or early next week and that she will send me an email when they're up. I'm checking their site from time to time.

At BGD, how many inches away do they usually consider for a diamon to be eye clean? I do see some of their diamonds have an indication in their product page of being eye clean. I'll ask Lesley about this when the images are up.

Do you happen to know the HCA rating for this one?

Right now, the total I have for the BDG 0.903 diamond is $3663 + $73.98 shipping less $183.15 (5% discount) = $3553.83. I'm still hoping to get that extra 3% but we'll see.

I just checked and unfortunately JA and WF do not ship to the Philippines. I will have to check the other vendors that you recommended but so far BGD and B2CJewels do ship here.

As for that B2C 1.03ct recommendation, I'm able to see all the images in their website. Maybe it was just a temporary bug?


Interesting! Thanks for pointing this out. So size perception really depends on environmental lighting.


That's good to hear. I'm still wating for a response from JannPaul but what is your comment on their prices in general?

Pretty sure the "up to 8%" at BGD includes the regular 3% wire discount. So it's only 5% off the regular wire pricing.

JannPaul's regular super ideal pricing is inline with WF and BGD, and their White Series (e.g Decagon) is higher. However, JP is currently a lot less transparent with their inventory and pricing since you can't just search online, so you kind of have to go back and forth telling them what you are looking for and seeing what they offer. Another thing to consider, is that I don't think JP goes below G color and VS2 clarity in their super ideals or White Series, but I could be mistaken. So if you don't need (or want to pay for) that high of color or clarity, BGD or WF will likely have more to offer.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,743
Will provide more feedback later. I am about to be mobile again.

Below are screen caps of the HCA for the BGD stone. It has a great score and is just as you would expect. No concerns.

I might add that the Idealscope, ASET and H&A images that BGD will upload soon not only supersedes the HCA (a guesstimate based on proportions) but will provide visual confirmation. Also the computer generated ASET on the AGS cert is created by doing a 3D scan and further confirms what the HCA is predicting.

Point blank, the stone is a great performer and Is a good financial value.

07CF0CD1-9DC7-4810-97BC-8B15F795BB35.jpeg
53D4FD7E-DC12-4BA0-B96A-F532F1C4D808.jpeg
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
I just found out that the tax I'll be paying would be enormous (upwards of 32% because of excise tax and VAT) if I decide to ship directly to the Philippines. So I have options to use freight forwarders to avoid these taxes and still have the diamond fully insured. That opens up my list of vendors to choose from because my shipping address will be a US shipping address.

Possible alternate #1:
JA True Heart, 1.06ct J-VS2 @ $4,690
$4,425 per carat


Hearts image looks clean. Ideal scope pink is over saturation and looks good. HCA gets excellent score as I found using PS search engine. You would want to request a cert to look at actual values before making a final decision. I am concerned about the black crystal on the top and the stone not being 100% eye clean.
Here's the AGS cert.

I asked about it being eye clean and here's what they told me:

"It is technically eye clean . But if you look right up on it and look for it you may see that"

He was referring to that black crystal on top. I also get $100 of after signing up.

Possible alternate #2:
WF ACA 1.058 @ $4,961 wire
$4,689 per carat


Possible alternate #3:
WF ACA 1.068 J-SI1 @ $5,039 wire
$4,718 per carat

[/QUOTE]

In terms of specs, are both of these better picks compared to the 0.903 BGD without considering the price per carat? I also get $100 off from WF.

Possible alternate #4:
B2C Jewels Perfection 1.03 J-VVS2 @ $5,254 wire
$5,143 per carat


Not sure what is up with Brian's website. It shows there to be an ASET, idealscope and H&A images, but they are broken when I click on them. If interested, make a call and ask him to fix so we can check them out. Looking at the AGS cert & proportions I assume this will be a top tier diamond.

It looks like the images are fixed even when I first checked them. Can you confirm on your side?

Possible alternate #5:
WF Premium Select (near miss ACA) 1.11 J-VS2 @ $5,428 wire
$4,890 per carat


Doesn't quite qualify for true H&A status, but it's very close. You get the same trade benefits as an ACA for the future. Might be a good way to gain a little size and clarity although I realize it's at the top of your price range.

Yes, closer to $5.5K is really pushing it for me. I still have to factor in the setting and the small side stones if necessary.
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
Pretty sure the "up to 8%" at BGD includes the regular 3% wire discount. So it's only 5% off the regular wire pricing.

JannPaul's regular super ideal pricing is inline with WF and BGD, and their White Series (e.g Decagon) is higher. However, JP is currently a lot less transparent with their inventory and pricing since you can't just search online, so you kind of have to go back and forth telling them what you are looking for and seeing what they offer. Another thing to consider, is that I don't think JP goes below G color and VS2 clarity in their super ideals or White Series, but I could be mistaken. So if you don't need (or want to pay for) that high of color or clarity, BGD or WF will likely have more to offer.

You're right, Lesley just confirmed that it's 3% wire discount plus 5% off the regular pricing for the Diamond Month discount. It still is the best discount from all the rest, so far.

They just got back to me and confirmed that they only carry D-G for Super Ideals as they claim that these color grades retain their value over many years as compared to lower color grades which drop in value significantly and their prices fluctuate greatly. But they will try and ask their master cutters if they can source lower grade super ideals for me.

It's a lot of back-and-forth with them, unfortunately. I'll post back whatever they give me here but so far the prices they gave me are upwards from $7850 (excluding tax) to $10400, so not looking good.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 23, 2018
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They just got back to me and confirmed that they only carry D-G for Super Ideals as they claim that these color grades retain their value over many years as compared to lower color grades which drop in value significantly and their prices fluctuate greatly. But they will try and ask their master cutters if they can source lower grade super ideals for me.

It's a lot of back-and-forth with them, unfortunately. I'll post back whatever they give me here but so far the prices they gave me are upwards from $7850 (excluding tax) to $10400, so not looking good.
Assume this is JP. I wasn’t aware they were so particular with color. However, given their location and that many of Asian culture seems to value high color & clarity as a sign of purity, it doesn’t surprise me either.

However, with prices being as stated, it allows you to cut them loose and focus on budget friendly options.
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
Assume this is JP. I wasn’t aware they were so particular with color. However, given their location and that many of Asian culture seems to value high color & clarity as a sign of purityit does not surprise me either.

You assumed correct, sorry I forgot to mention that. I see, that makes sense. I'm Asian and half-Chinese but don't believe in that stuff, so we're good :)
 

CutMonkey

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
65
You're right, Lesley just confirmed that it's 3% wire discount plus 5% off the regular pricing for the Diamond Month discount. It still is the best discount from all the rest, so far.

They just got back to me and confirmed that they only carry D-G for Super Ideals as they claim that these color grades retain their value over many years as compared to lower color grades which drop in value significantly and their prices fluctuate greatly. But they will try and ask their master cutters if they can source lower grade super ideals for me.

It's a lot of back-and-forth with them, unfortunately. I'll post back whatever they give me here but so far the prices they gave me are upwards from $7850 (excluding tax) to $10400, so not looking good.

Yeah, that's what I though for JannPaul, they seem to cater to higher color/clarity, which I think is the preference in Asia. Be sure to double check with JP which currency they are quoting, though. Big difference between SGD and USD, but either way, probably a bit out of your budget. I'm really hoping that they get their website up soon, and that they list their inventory and pricing more transparently when they do.
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
Yeah, that's what I though for JannPaul, they seem to cater to higher color/clarity, which I think is the preference in Asia. Be sure to double check with JP which currency they are quoting, though. Big difference between SGD and USD, but either way, probably a bit out of your budget. I'm really hoping that they get their website up soon, and that they list their inventory and pricing more transparently when they do.

They outright mentioned USD.
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
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Compared to the 0.903 BGD diamond (https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/0.903-j-si1-signature-round-ags-104113599062), what do you think of the following?

WF 0.936 J-SI1 @ $4,191 wire
$4,478 per carat


WF 0.912 J-VS2 @ $4,252 wire
$4,662 per carat


Also, in the Diamond Search tool, what does "virtual diamond" mean?
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
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To answer your first set of questions:

1. I don’t like JA’s response. It doesn’t exactly exude any confidence in their stone. And honestly you have plenty of other choices that don’t pose the same risk so I would nix this one from the list myself.

2. WF is a top notch vendor. Very transparent, great cut quality, phenomenal trade up policy, some of the best customer service in the industry and very competitive prices for stones of this caliber.

3. WF has several product lines that I will explain below:
  • ACA = A Cut Above, their top tier stone that is crafted to H&A perfection and AGS certification
  • PS = Premium Select, similar to ACa except with GIA XXX certification in lieu of AGS
  • ES = Expert Select, these stones may have AGS or GIA certification, but didn’t quite make the mark for ACA or PS status. Near misses if you will. Still superior to most other stones





4. The above in consideration, I hope you now realize the WF stones I previously recommended are completely rock solid and will perform like champs. They all have great proportions and all the advanced images to confirm they are indeed top performers. To say which of them is better is to debate small nuances. My personal favorite of the WF group is the 1.058 because I find the sparkle video more firey and appealing to my own set of tastes & preferences. That said I would have zero qualms owning any of them from a performance standpoint.

5. BGD also has multiple lines. Blue is very unique to them because those stones are cut to the same standards of their other lines but simply have medium+ levels of fluor. I did re-check the page on the 0.903 and no images or videos have been uploaded yet. However, the AGS cert and BGD’s reputation for quality is enough to know that stone is on par with the WF items. Once uploaded, we can make additional comments.

6. Where I think the BGD stone shines is you are getting top tier performance and the size for at least $1,000 cheaper. For your overall budget I believe this is your best choice personally.

7. The B2C images are working for me now and they are fantastic! Also the cert and proportions look great. If price and other criteria meet this is a contender!

8. Don’t get hung up on $100 savings. Sure, it’s a nice bonus but don’t let it drive your decision as $100 either way isn’t going to sway the situation in a meaningful way. However, a $1,000 might, lol.

9. Be sure to check out the trade up policies of each. It may not seem important today but it will likely be valuable in the future. WF is the strongest of the group. BGD is second best. And B2C comes in 3rd with an 80% policy (vs 100% of the others).

Edited to Add:
10. I’m not familiar with freight forwarders. However, what you suggest is tax evasion. No judgments on my part but you may want to double check all this to ensure it will work. Also, what is the penalty if you get caught and can you live with those consequences? Finally it is not uncommon to see 20% + tax & duties depending which country you are shipping to. JA used to have a tax & duty calculator on their website but I see they have taken it down.
 
Last edited:

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Also, in the Diamond Search tool, what does "virtual diamond" mean?

Virtual diamonds refers to those stones which are held by the cutters (usually overseas, but not always) and that are frequently available to multiple vendors.

In other words, the vendor doesn’t have the stone in their possession but if you show interest they can ship in. This does cause some problems. You may want a stone and it shows available. However a few hours earlier someone else did the same. Whichever vendor gets the request in first will get the stone. The other will have to tell their customers it’s unavailable.

Also, it’s rare to get advanced images. Many times photos and videos are also of poor quality or not available. Sometimes you get lucky and get all the stuff. It depends on the supplier and their agreements with that particular vendor.

Consequently you are putting a lot more faith in certificates only. And that can pose its own risks. Awhile back I found a virtual stone with what looked like amazing proportions; however, it was a total dud.


A good majority of stones on JA are virtual inventory. Same with many other vendors.

On the opposite end of the spectrum vendors like WF and BGD own their signature brands and can go to the safe and pull them if you visit in person or have questions about a stone.
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
To answer your first set of questions:

1. I don’t like JA’s response. It doesn’t exactly exude any confidence in their stone. And honestly you have plenty of other choices that don’t pose the same risk so I would nix this one from the list myself.

2. WF is a top notch vendor. Very transparent, great cut quality, phenomenal trade up policy, some of the best customer service in the industry and very competitive prices for stones of this caliber.

3. WF has several product lines that I will explain below:
  • ACA = A Cut Above, their top tier stone that is crafted to H&A perfection and AGS certification
  • PS = Premium Select, similar to ACa except with GIA XXX certification in lieu of AGS
  • ES = Expert Select, these stones may have AGS or GIA certification, but didn’t quite make the mark for ACA or PS status. Near misses if you will. Still superior to most other stones





4. The above in consideration, I hope you now realize the WF stones I previously recommended are completely rock solid and will perform like champs. They all have great proportions and all the advanced images to confirm they are indeed top performers. To say which of them is better is to debate small nuances. My personal favorite of the WF group is the 1.058 because I find the sparkle video more firey and appealing to my own set of tastes & preferences. That said I would have zero qualms owning any of them from a performance standpoint.

5. BGD also has multiple lines. Blue is very unique to them because those stones are cut to the same standards of their other lines but simply have medium+ levels of fluor. I did re-check the page on the 0.903 and no images or videos have been uploaded yet. However, the AGS cert and BGD’s reputation for quality is enough to know that stone is on par with the WF items. Once uploaded, we can make additional comments.

6. Where I think the BGD stone shines is you are getting top tier performance and the size for at least $1,000 cheaper. For your overall budget I believe this is your best choice personally.

7. The B2C images are working for me now and they are fantastic! Also the cert and proportions look great. If price and other criteria meet this is a contender!

8. Don’t get hung up on $100 savings. Sure, it’s a nice bonus but don’t let it drive your decision as $100 either way isn’t going to sway the situation in a meaningful way. However, a $1,000 might, lol.

9. Be sure to check out the trade up policies of each. It may not seem important today but it will likely be valuable in the future. WF is the strongest of the group. BGD is second best. And B2C comes in 3rd with an 80% policy (vs 100% of the others).

Edited to Add:
10. I’m not familiar with freight forwarders. However, what you suggest is tax evasion. No judgments on my part but you may want to double check all this to ensure it will work. Also, what is the penalty if you get caught and can you live with those consequences? Finally it is not uncommon to see 20% + tax & duties depending which country you are shipping to. JA used to have a tax & duty calculator on their website but I see they have taken it down.

I also didn't like any first impressions I have when chatting with JA. They did not seem to be helpful at all and were in a hurry to close the chat. It was completely opposite with my experience from BGD. I asked them for eye-clean verification and they told me that that is not possible because of the current Covid situation. I'll remove them from my list.

Ok, so far we have a couple of WF choices, one BGD, and one B2C and it really just depends on how I manipulate my budget.

As for the tax evasion, I kinda expected anyone would bring that up. Technically, it isn't. These freight forwarders are totally legal and have certain agreements with the Philippine customs office (I don't know what exactly). They are also something that's been in business here in the Philippines for like forever and a lot of people use them. I still pay a premium to them because of the item being shipped as high-valued but it's a lot less than what I'll be paying if shipped direct. I'm not being defensive or anything but I just wanted to explain for the benefit of everyone. This is for another topic though, but I just wanted to lay this information out.

Virtual diamonds refers to those stones which are held by the cutters (usually overseas, but not always) and that are frequently available to multiple vendors.

In other words, the vendor doesn’t have the stone in their possession but if you show interest they can ship in. This does cause some problems. You may want a stone and it shows available. However a few hours earlier someone else did the same. Whichever vendor gets the request in first will get the stone. The other will have to tell their customers it’s unavailable.

Also, it’s rare to get advanced images. Many times photos and videos are also of poor quality or not available. Sometimes you get lucky and get all the stuff. It depends on the supplier and their agreements with that particular vendor.

Consequently you are putting a lot more faith in certificates only. And that can pose its own risks. Awhile back I found a virtual stone with what looked like amazing proportions; however, it was a total dud.


A good majority of stones on JA are virtual inventory. Same with many other vendors.

On the opposite end of the spectrum vendors like WF and BGD own their signature brands and can go to the safe and pull them if you visit in person or have questions about a stone.

Ok, got it. So steer clear of these virtual diamonds as they're a hit and miss.
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
Compared to the 0.903 BGD diamond (https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/0.903-j-si1-signature-round-ags-104113599062), what do you think of the following?

WF 0.936 J-SI1 @ $4,191 wire
$4,478 per carat


WF 0.912 J-VS2 @ $4,252 wire
$4,662 per carat

@sledge

Do you have any comments on these choices?

Also, as I was chatting with WF earlier asking for possible discounts, they gave me this recommendation as a contender for that 0.903 in BGD. They're saying that this is something that's visually the same size as the 0.903.


What do you think?
 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
505
Whiteflash has the better upgrade policy so if that's important to you consider that vendor otherwise go with the Super Ideal vendor that works with your budget and meets your specifications. You will go insane nitpicking proportions when it comes to Super Ideals I have been there.
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
Whiteflash has the better upgrade policy so if that's important to you consider that vendor otherwise go with the Super Ideal vendor that works with your budget and meets your specifications. You will go insane nitpicking proportions when it comes to Super Ideals I have been there.

How is WF specifically better in upgrade policy compared to BGD? Since the upgrade policy isn't practically applicable to me (since I'm from the Philippines), I would still want to have it in case we decide to have it upgraded in the future while visiting the US.
 

AllAboardTheBlingTrain

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
1,332
How is WF specifically better in upgrade policy compared to BGD? Since the upgrade policy isn't practically applicable to me (since I'm from the Philippines), I would still want to have it in case we decide to have it upgraded in the future while visiting the US.

WF has a more flexible upgrade policy where you just need to get a diamond that is $1 more than the previous one (and you just pay the difference). That means you can go to a bigger size with lower colour/clarity in the future, or upgrade to a smaller size with a higher colour/clarity, or stick to the same colour/clarity but upgrade size; or any combination of the above.

BGDs policy requires that you upgrade at least 2 of the following: colour, clarity or carat size. That means you can’t do a “sideways” upgrade of just size, you would need to bump up colour or clarity as well.

This is from memory, I might be wrong.
 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
505
How is WF specifically better in upgrade policy compared to BGD? Since the upgrade policy isn't practically applicable to me (since I'm from the Philippines), I would still want to have it in case we decide to have it upgraded in the future while visiting the US.

Doesn't matter where you live, the upgrade policies will apply to anyone but the only thing you would have to deal with living outside the US would be customs...whatever charges may apply to you living in the Philippines.

Whiteflash only requires you to spend $1 more and you will get full credit towards your upgrade.

BGD requires you to upgrade 2 of the 4 C's so would be more restrictive.

Question you have to ask yourself is what's important to you and your decision will be easier.
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
WF has a more flexible upgrade policy where you just need to get a diamond that is $1 more than the previous one (and you just pay the difference). That means you can go to a bigger size with lower colour/clarity in the future, or upgrade to a smaller size with a higher colour/clarity, or stick to the same colour/clarity but upgrade size; or any combination of the above.

BGDs policy requires that you upgrade at least 2 of the following: colour, clarity or carat size. That means you can’t do a “sideways” upgrade of just size, you would need to bump up colour or clarity as well.

This is from memory, I might be wrong.

Doesn't matter where you live, the upgrade policies will apply to anyone but the only thing you would have to deal with living outside the US would be customs...whatever charges may apply to you living in the Philippines.

Whiteflash only requires you to spend $1 more and you will get full credit towards your upgrade.

BGD requires you to upgrade 2 of the 4 C's so would be more restrictive.

Question you have to ask yourself is what's important to you and your decision will be easier.

Ok. This is definitely something that I need to take into consideration. But since this is for an engagement ring, I'm sure it would have a huge sentimental value to my girlfriend which would mean that there's a very slim chance for a need for an upgrade. Maybe, in the future, for another promise ring purchase this upgrade policy will become very handy. I don't have a firm decision yet because the price of the BGD choice is very attractive.

And yes, I know that the upgrade policies apply wherever the diamond ends up but shipping back and forth to and from the Philippines will be a nightmare. It's so much easier if the whole upgrade process is done domestically in the US.
 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
505
Ok. This is definitely something that I need to take into consideration. But since this is for an engagement ring, I'm sure it would have a huge sentimental value to my girlfriend which would mean that there's a very slim chance for a need for an upgrade. Maybe, in the future, for another promise ring purchase this upgrade policy will become very handy. I don't have a firm decision yet because the price of the BGD choice is very attractive.

And yes, I know that the upgrade policies apply wherever the diamond ends up but shipping back and forth to and from the Philippines will be a nightmare. It's so much easier if the whole upgrade process is done domestically in the US.

Your girlfriend might be fine with the ring you get her now, but down the road suffer what most suffer on this forum.

DSS = Diamond Shrinkage Syndrome
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
Your girlfriend might be fine with the ring you get her now, but down the road suffer what most suffer on this forum.

DSS = Diamond Shrinkage Syndrome

Lol, you have a point there. If I get a diamond from WF with a setting, will the upgrade policy still apply if I just return the diamond, for example?
 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
505
Lol, you have a point there. If I get a diamond from WF with a setting, will the upgrade policy still apply if I just return the diamond, for example?

I would just send the ring and setting back to Whiteflash, I wouldn’t want another jeweler removing the diamond and then have Whiteflash say the diamond somehow got damaged or chipped and they won’t accept the diamond. So for that reason I would send it back the way I got it from them.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,743
As for the tax evasion, I kinda expected anyone would bring that up. Technically, it isn't. These freight forwarders are totally legal and have certain agreements with the Philippine customs office (I don't know what exactly). They are also something that's been in business here in the Philippines for like forever and a lot of people use them. I still pay a premium to them because of the item being shipped as high-valued but it's a lot less than what I'll be paying if shipped direct. I'm not being defensive or anything but I just wanted to explain for the benefit of everyone. This is for another topic though, but I just wanted to lay this information out.

I'm good if you're good. Just remember to include the freight forwarder fee in your overall evaluation so you compare total dollars to total dollars of the various vendors.

Also, you may double check that WF or BGD will ship to the US address that your freight forwarders provides you. It seems logical they would, but they too have policies in-place, insure shipments, require signatures, etc. Just my 2 cents, but wise to double check.

Ok, got it. So steer clear of these virtual diamonds as they're a hit and miss.

I wasn't trying to imply virtual diamonds are bad and should be avoided. But it's a different experience & process than buying from a super ideal vendor like WF or BGD. Those guys are like the "easy button" approach to buying. You don't really have to think too hard to ensure you get an amazing diamond!

With virtual stones, more times than not you don't have as much information available to make your decision, so you need to put in extra time selecting and also be prepared to buy your own scopes & do your own examinations. You may even have to return a stone or two until you find "the one".

Only each buyer can determine what level of the game they want to play, and how risk adverse or tolerant they are. If I'm just being honest, I see your biggest deterrent being location and potential shipping, duties & taxes you may become liable for by shipping in & returning (if things don't go right).

@sledge

Do you have any comments on these choices?

Also, as I was chatting with WF earlier asking for possible discounts, they gave me this recommendation as a contender for that 0.903 in BGD. They're saying that this is something that's visually the same size as the 0.903.


What do you think?

Wow, that is a firecracker of a stone! Images and video looks great. I prefer higher color so I appreciate you getting a bump up to I color and also VS2 clarity. So from a performance & quality standpoint, I love that smaller 0.834 WF ACA!

However, let's put things in perspective. You seemed very concerned "sacrificing" from a true 1 carat to a 0.903 carat. I showed you how small the difference was, which was roughly 0.20mm smaller in overall diameter.

For reference:
  • 0.903 = 6.15 x 6.19mm
  • 1.004 = 6.41 x 6.43mm
  • 0.834 = 6.01 x 6.05mm
The 0.834 is roughly another 0.15-0.17mm smaller. I agree it's not much smaller to the naked eye than the 0.903, even slightly closer than the difference between the 1 carat and the 0.903.

However, there is almost 0.40mm difference between the 0.834 and 1.004. The caveat being the 1.004 may be outside your price range and a non-contender either way.

How do YOU feel about the size? Is a true 1 carat off the table? Is the tiny difference in size worth the upgrade in color & clarity? Can you see the color difference between I and J?

IMO, this isn't a performance question. It's a matter of what you find acceptable with size, color, clarity and price. Both the BGD and WF stones get my recommendation!

Ok. This is definitely something that I need to take into consideration. But since this is for an engagement ring, I'm sure it would have a huge sentimental value to my girlfriend which would mean that there's a very slim chance for a need for an upgrade. Maybe, in the future, for another promise ring purchase this upgrade policy will become very handy. I don't have a firm decision yet because the price of the BGD choice is very attractive.

And yes, I know that the upgrade policies apply wherever the diamond ends up but shipping back and forth to and from the Philippines will be a nightmare. It's so much easier if the whole upgrade process is done domestically in the US.

LOL, this sounds like me when I was looking. So far the wife is content, but she sees how eventually she wants an upgrade. When she first got it, she said never. We will be 2 years in on the 19th. Things change!

I didn't put much value in the trade policy when originally buying from BGD. And honestly the next upgrade is probably going to hurt regardless as it will likely be a D-F and 1.5-2 carats. Probably VS2 which is current clarity, but maybe a very clean SI1. All self-imposed preferences & desires. What terrifies me is thinking about the 3rd upgrade and beyond when I factor in having to upgrade 2 of the C's!

However, an "upgrade" is not always about size. Many times people buy a stone and after they are beyond the return period, they decide they want a different color or clarity. I've seen this go both ways. Sometimes the lovely J they bought is a bit too warm so they want a G or better, but otherwise same size & clarity of stone. Or perhaps they bought a bigger stone and the clarity needs to go up a bit because they stare at their rock everyday and can now see the imperfections. Yet another scenario is someone buys an F but the wearer decides that's too stark white for them and they prefer more warmth so they end up moving to a lower color (and get a sizable increase to boot).

In all those cases, the trade policy is acting more like a hedge than a true "upgrade" policy. It's very hard to hedge using the BGD policy; however, it's very easy with WF or HPD where they don't put any restrictions on you other than "equal or greater value".


Your girlfriend might be fine with the ring you get her now, but down the road suffer what most suffer on this forum.

DSS = Diamond Shrinkage Syndrome

I'd highly recommend you go into your router settings and blacklist pricescope.com. :mrgreen2:


Lol, you have a point there. If I get a diamond from WF with a setting, will the upgrade policy still apply if I just return the diamond, for example?

Your setting doesn't always have to be upgraded. As I mentioned earlier, some people trade to get better color or clarity and stay within the same relative size. In those cases, your existing setting may work.

Also, depending how the setting is constructed, you may be able to swap heads on it and use with a larger stone so only minimal work is needed.

A setting like my wife's will require us to start over with a brand new setting unless we stay within a very narrow set of size requirements as it was custom made.

Normally when we speak upgrades, we are referring to the diamond only. However, WF is one of the only vendors I know of that DOES offer a setting upgrade policy as well. It is limited to their designer bands. Essentially you will get 50% of the original value back. Not as generous as the diamond policy, but considering everyone else gives you NOTHING, it is extremely generous.

If you navigate to the bottom of this WF page, it explains in a little more detail:

 

TripEx

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2021
Messages
140
Ok, this looks like another can of worms. I can see how the diamond industry is really one that takes a lot of experience to get into. As my first ever purchase of a diamond, I think I'm better off with no fluor, at least for the time being.


It's not like the shipping fee difference is that high ($78 vs $0) but it's still there. I hope @TripEx can chime in this discussion.

Hey just seen this.
İ had been to a few.local stores here in Aus and also tried dealing with james allen and whiteflash. İ felt their customer service was a little lacking, slow emails etc however not to say others havent had better exp.
İf you see my posts i have been recommended 2 outstanding stones which İ really didnt have to think about by JannPaul. Their service explanation no pressure was exceptional. İ now want to go see them aswell. They are constantly in contact with me. They have made 3 wax models and sent them to my partner. İn north cyprus just waiting on that. Before then i had to send my partner a ring sizer because i didnt want to risk it. So thats whats held everything up. However hopefully this week the wax models arrive and then they can build the ring. İ have only paid a deposit and they havent asked me for any money or made me think İ have to.pay.
Shipping and wax models are free sent by fedex priority international. Just have to.pay local taxes (if any) for your country.
You get their personal whatsapp contact aswell as an indepth video call mine was about 2 hours long. They are happy to show and reshow you the stones.
Their website isnt functioning properly i had a little issue with that however other if you call them directly initially to set up an appointment i assure you, you wont be disappointed. İ am dealing with euguene who is currently under the weather and has to rest at home for 5 days (yes we keep in touch!) however i hear Clara is good aswell.
Atleast do their online meeting before you decide!
Their ring prices are great aswell hand made.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,743
Compared to the 0.903 BGD diamond (https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/0.903-j-si1-signature-round-ags-104113599062), what do you think of the following?

WF 0.936 J-SI1 @ $4,191 wire
$4,478 per carat


WF 0.912 J-VS2 @ $4,252 wire
$4,662 per carat


It's hard not to love WF ACA's. Of these two, I personally like the 0.936 a smidge better, as it seems a bit more lively to me in the video. The reality being, either of these stones would be absolutely amazing IRL.

Perhaps the better question is what advantage do these WF stones introduce into your situation? They are essentially the same size as the BGD stone but add about $800 of cost to your purchase (when you factor in the 5% BGD discount).

The BGD stone does have medium fluor, but honestly that isn't even a concern as far as I am concerned. It helps discount your stone to save money, and won't have any negative effects. I do like the WF upgrade policy better and enjoy tech chats with WF on occasion. I have tons of respect for both vendors and have probably recommended more WF stones because they typically represent more bang for the buck. However, I don't see that here. I think the BGD stone has the better overall value.

If I am simply trying to eliminate stones for the smallest of differences, then look at the hearts image on each of these. To me, the BGD appears most perfect out these 3. Does it mean I wouldn't buy either of the WF's? Nope, not at all. Just I'm really nitpicking in an attempt to narrow down an already awesome roster of available stones.

WF 0.936 Hearts Image:
Chevron at 2 o'clock is slightly different than the others. Also notice the "tails" in the heart. Some of this is easier to see zoomed up.

Inkedhearts-and-arrows-round-diamond-ags-104094671003-hearts-191982_LI.jpg


WF 0.912 Hearts Image:
Slightly larger chevron at 2 o'clock again. Heart clefts at 1 and 2 o'clock seem to be more severe than other hearts. Slight tails at end of hearts (again in extreme zoomed condition).

Inkedhearts-and-arrows-round-diamond-ags-104112416002-hearts-188340_LI.jpg


BGD 0.903 Hearts Image
Looks extremely clean and near perfect. Possibly because the image isn't as large/zoomed? I have zoomed on my computer in an attempt to do so; however, smaller pics turn into a pixilation mess once you reach a certain level of zoom.

ags-104113599062-heart-web.png


 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,743
Hey just seen this.
İ had been to a few.local stores here in Aus and also tried dealing with james allen and whiteflash. İ felt their customer service was a little lacking, slow emails etc however not to say others havent had better exp.
İf you see my posts i have been recommended 2 outstanding stones which İ really didnt have to think about by JannPaul. Their service explanation no pressure was exceptional. İ now want to go see them aswell. They are constantly in contact with me. They have made 3 wax models and sent them to my partner. İn north cyprus just waiting on that. Before then i had to send my partner a ring sizer because i didnt want to risk it. So thats whats held everything up. However hopefully this week the wax models arrive and then they can build the ring. İ have only paid a deposit and they havent asked me for any money or made me think İ have to.pay.
Shipping and wax models are free sent by fedex priority international. Just have to.pay local taxes (if any) for your country.
You get their personal whatsapp contact aswell as an indepth video call mine was about 2 hours long. They are happy to show and reshow you the stones.
Their website isnt functioning properly i had a little issue with that however other if you call them directly initially to set up an appointment i assure you, you wont be disappointed. İ am dealing with euguene who is currently under the weather and has to rest at home for 5 days (yes we keep in touch!) however i hear Clara is good aswell.
Atleast do their online meeting before you decide!
Their ring prices are great aswell hand made.

I'm glad to hear your experience with JP has gone so well.

In regards to your experiences with JA & WF, I am sorry to hear they did not go as you planned. As a community, none of us win if the vendors are disappointing.

My experiences with WF would contradict yours. They seem very transparent and responsive. I have seen them bend over backwards for several customers. This is not to say they are perfect. Even the best of us have bad days. I have seen Bryan and his team come on here and admit failure and go above & beyond to rectify situations. IMO, they are a top notch vendor that is extremely responsible & responsive.
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
I would just send the ring and setting back to Whiteflash, I wouldn’t want another jeweler removing the diamond and then have Whiteflash say the diamond somehow got damaged or chipped and they won’t accept the diamond. So for that reason I would send it back the way I got it from them.

Your setting doesn't always have to be upgraded. As I mentioned earlier, some people trade to get better color or clarity and stay within the same relative size. In those cases, your existing setting may work.

Also, depending how the setting is constructed, you may be able to swap heads on it and use with a larger stone so only minimal work is needed.

A setting like my wife's will require us to start over with a brand new setting unless we stay within a very narrow set of size requirements as it was custom made.

Normally when we speak upgrades, we are referring to the diamond only. However, WF is one of the only vendors I know of that DOES offer a setting upgrade policy as well. It is limited to their designer bands. Essentially you will get 50% of the original value back. Not as generous as the diamond policy, but considering everyone else gives you NOTHING, it is extremely generous.

If you navigate to the bottom of this WF page, it explains in a little more detail:


If I have the diamond set by WF or BGD (depending who I go with), there is a possibility of me incorrectly choosing the size. My gf did mention a few months that she is a 6.5 but that's from a cheap ring sizer she used and I don't know about its accuracy. I also remember her going to a local jewelry shop to have her finger sized and I forgot if she told me 6 or 6.5, but I know it's different from the result of the ring sizer. Or maybe she just doesn't know how to use the ring sizer. Bottomline, I'm not confident with 6.5 :) In this case, I'm planning to get 6.5 and if it's too big for her I'll just have it modified locally when I receive the ring. So this is my concern. What happens to the upgrade policy of both vendors if I have the setting modified in size?

On a similar note, are designer bands for the setting usually significantly more expensive?

I'm good if you're good. Just remember to include the freight forwarder fee in your overall evaluation so you compare total dollars to total dollars of the various vendors.

Also, you may double check that WF or BGD will ship to the US address that your freight forwarders provides you. It seems logical they would, but they too have policies in-place, insure shipments, require signatures, etc. Just my 2 cents, but wise to double check.

Yes, this is what I've been discussing with them for the past few days. As long as I pay via wire transfer, they can ship to the freight forwarders. For WF, I just need to sign a third party release waiver and naturally their insurance stops when delivered to the freight forwarder.

Another consideration I'm doing is sales tax since most freight forwarders I use are located in CA, NY, and NJ which are not tax-free. I do have a couple in Delaware and Oregon but those do not accept jewelries.

I wasn't trying to imply virtual diamonds are bad and should be avoided. But it's a different experience & process than buying from a super ideal vendor like WF or BGD. Those guys are like the "easy button" approach to buying. You don't really have to think too hard to ensure you get an amazing diamond!

With virtual stones, more times than not you don't have as much information available to make your decision, so you need to put in extra time selecting and also be prepared to buy your own scopes & do your own examinations. You may even have to return a stone or two until you find "the one".

Only each buyer can determine what level of the game they want to play, and how risk adverse or tolerant they are. If I'm just being honest, I see your biggest deterrent being location and potential shipping, duties & taxes you may become liable for by shipping in & returning (if things don't go right).

Yeah, for first timers like me I think it's safe to stay with the super ideals even though they're more expensive. I would have given virtual diamonds a chance if I was located in the US though.

Wow, that is a firecracker of a stone! Images and video looks great. I prefer higher color so I appreciate you getting a bump up to I color and also VS2 clarity. So from a performance & quality standpoint, I love that smaller 0.834 WF ACA!

However, let's put things in perspective. You seemed very concerned "sacrificing" from a true 1 carat to a 0.903 carat. I showed you how small the difference was, which was roughly 0.20mm smaller in overall diameter.

For reference:
  • 0.903 = 6.15 x 6.19mm
  • 1.004 = 6.41 x 6.43mm
  • 0.834 = 6.01 x 6.05mm
The 0.834 is roughly another 0.15-0.17mm smaller. I agree it's not much smaller to the naked eye than the 0.903, even slightly closer than the difference between the 1 carat and the 0.903.

However, there is almost 0.40mm difference between the 0.834 and 1.004. The caveat being the 1.004 may be outside your price range and a non-contender either way.

How do YOU feel about the size? Is a true 1 carat off the table? Is the tiny difference in size worth the upgrade in color & clarity? Can you see the color difference between I and J?

IMO, this isn't a performance question. It's a matter of what you find acceptable with size, color, clarity and price. Both the BGD and WF stones get my recommendation!

This is exactly what I mentioned to the WF rep when she recommended me that. Even though it's very near in size from the 0.903, its size is getting significantly far from a 1 carat.

You're right, I am concerned about size. I still have that feeling on going with a true 1 carat and this is not something that's off the table yet as long as I get a really good-priced 1 carat option. I compared the 0.834 and 0.903 and I do see the slight difference in color between them where I is more white but I think I prefer carat over color as long as it's eye-clean.

LOL, this sounds like me when I was looking. So far the wife is content, but she sees how eventually she wants an upgrade. When she first got it, she said never. We will be 2 years in on the 19th. Things change!

I didn't put much value in the trade policy when originally buying from BGD. And honestly the next upgrade is probably going to hurt regardless as it will likely be a D-F and 1.5-2 carats. Probably VS2 which is current clarity, but maybe a very clean SI1. All self-imposed preferences & desires. What terrifies me is thinking about the 3rd upgrade and beyond when I factor in having to upgrade 2 of the C's!

However, an "upgrade" is not always about size. Many times people buy a stone and after they are beyond the return period, they decide they want a different color or clarity. I've seen this go both ways. Sometimes the lovely J they bought is a bit too warm so they want a G or better, but otherwise same size & clarity of stone. Or perhaps they bought a bigger stone and the clarity needs to go up a bit because they stare at their rock everyday and can now see the imperfections. Yet another scenario is someone buys an F but the wearer decides that's too stark white for them and they prefer more warmth so they end up moving to a lower color (and get a sizable increase to boot).

In all those cases, the trade policy is acting more like a hedge than a true "upgrade" policy. It's very hard to hedge using the BGD policy; however, it's very easy with WF or HPD where they don't put any restrictions on you other than "equal or greater value".

Ahaha, it is how it is. Just like any other hobby, we tend to always have the urge of upgrading. Those upgrade policies would really come in handy in those situations.

I'd highly recommend you go into your router settings and blacklist pricescope.com. :mrgreen2:

A good suggestion as an easy way out :)

Hey just seen this.
İ had been to a few.local stores here in Aus and also tried dealing with james allen and whiteflash. İ felt their customer service was a little lacking, slow emails etc however not to say others havent had better exp.
İf you see my posts i have been recommended 2 outstanding stones which İ really didnt have to think about by JannPaul. Their service explanation no pressure was exceptional. İ now want to go see them aswell. They are constantly in contact with me. They have made 3 wax models and sent them to my partner. İn north cyprus just waiting on that. Before then i had to send my partner a ring sizer because i didnt want to risk it. So thats whats held everything up. However hopefully this week the wax models arrive and then they can build the ring. İ have only paid a deposit and they havent asked me for any money or made me think İ have to.pay.
Shipping and wax models are free sent by fedex priority international. Just have to.pay local taxes (if any) for your country.
You get their personal whatsapp contact aswell as an indepth video call mine was about 2 hours long. They are happy to show and reshow you the stones.
Their website isnt functioning properly i had a little issue with that however other if you call them directly initially to set up an appointment i assure you, you wont be disappointed. İ am dealing with euguene who is currently under the weather and has to rest at home for 5 days (yes we keep in touch!) however i hear Clara is good aswell.
Atleast do their online meeting before you decide!
Their ring prices are great aswell hand made.

I'm talking to Chloe over Viber (I requested to chat with her on that app) and she does seem to respond to everything I ask. I hope she comes back with my with those lower color grade options. She had already sent me images of one stone that they have available but I don't want to waste my time on those because they are way out of my price range anyway.

It's hard not to love WF ACA's. Of these two, I personally like the 0.936 a smidge better, as it seems a bit more lively to me in the video. The reality being, either of these stones would be absolutely amazing IRL.

Perhaps the better question is what advantage do these WF stones introduce into your situation? They are essentially the same size as the BGD stone but add about $800 of cost to your purchase (when you factor in the 5% BGD discount).

The BGD stone does have medium fluor, but honestly that isn't even a concern as far as I am concerned. It helps discount your stone to save money, and won't have any negative effects. I do like the WF upgrade policy better and enjoy tech chats with WF on occasion. I have tons of respect for both vendors and have probably recommended more WF stones because they typically represent more bang for the buck. However, I don't see that here. I think the BGD stone has the better overall value.

If I am simply trying to eliminate stones for the smallest of differences, then look at the hearts image on each of these. To me, the BGD appears most perfect out these 3. Does it mean I wouldn't buy either of the WF's? Nope, not at all. Just I'm really nitpicking in an attempt to narrow down an already awesome roster of available stones.

WF 0.936 Hearts Image:
Chevron at 2 o'clock is slightly different than the others. Also notice the "tails" in the heart. Some of this is easier to see zoomed up.

Inkedhearts-and-arrows-round-diamond-ags-104094671003-hearts-191982_LI.jpg


WF 0.912 Hearts Image:
Slightly larger chevron at 2 o'clock again. Heart clefts at 1 and 2 o'clock seem to be more severe than other hearts. Slight tails at end of hearts (again in extreme zoomed condition).

Inkedhearts-and-arrows-round-diamond-ags-104112416002-hearts-188340_LI.jpg


BGD 0.903 Hearts Image
Looks extremely clean and near perfect. Possibly because the image isn't as large/zoomed? I have zoomed on my computer in an attempt to do so; however, smaller pics turn into a pixilation mess once you reach a certain level of zoom.

ags-104113599062-heart-web.png



So even though the 0.903 BGD is rated "Negligible" for fluor, there is still a bit of fluor to it? Is that the only thing that makes it less expensive than usual? I was checking the Office image of the 0.903 and I saw this:



I encircled a portion of what looks like a hairline crack for me. What is that? Is that something to be concerned about?

Would requesting a larger/zoomed Hearts image of the 0.903 from Lesley make us conclude better?
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,743
If I have the diamond set by WF or BGD (depending who I go with), there is a possibility of me incorrectly choosing the size. My gf did mention a few months that she is a 6.5 but that's from a cheap ring sizer she used and I don't know about its accuracy. I also remember her going to a local jewelry shop to have her finger sized and I forgot if she told me 6 or 6.5, but I know it's different from the result of the ring sizer. Or maybe she just doesn't know how to use the ring sizer. Bottomline, I'm not confident with 6.5 :) In this case, I'm planning to get 6.5 and if it's too big for her I'll just have it modified locally when I receive the ring. So this is my concern. What happens to the upgrade policy of both vendors if I have the setting modified in size?

On a similar note, are designer bands for the setting usually significantly more expensive?

Is this a "stealth" operation? If so, maybe you could employ the help of her best friend, sister or mom? Women talking and shopping for rings is much different than if you enter the equation. Your presence raises suspicion unless you have a really, really good reason for needing to know her ring size (probably not).

I say this, as you want to get it right from the get go. Also, fingers swell in the different seasons and also as body weights fluctuate. Not to mention pregnancy!

Thus far, my wife's ring has fit perfect, tight and loose -- lol.

From a guy's point of view, I would rather it be slightly large. She may appreciate the flexibility and if it is too big she could ultimately re-size, get sizing rings, etc.

Reminds me of yesteryear. I've always had big fingers and a few different girls rocked my class ring like this when we made "steady" status. Also had a couple do the necklace. Now that I think about it, they weren't very steady at all. :lol-2:


f2ea18dae559db2eb75022a9f7b2626a.jpg

On a similar note, are designer bands for the setting usually significantly more expensive?

Depends what you specifically want. There are 28 solitaires that popped up from their designer brands for less than $1,000.

In all cases, I recommend 6 prongs. More security, plus the extra 2 prongs help keep the shape looking round as 4 prongs can sometimes make it look square.


Yes, this is what I've been discussing with them for the past few days. As long as I pay via wire transfer, they can ship to the freight forwarders. For WF, I just need to sign a third party release waiver and naturally their insurance stops when delivered to the freight forwarder.

Another consideration I'm doing is sales tax since most freight forwarders I use are located in CA, NY, and NJ which are not tax-free. I do have a couple in Delaware and Oregon but those do not accept jewelries.

By the time you pay sales tax & the freight forwarders fee, it sounds like you may be getting close to just having it shipped directly.

Depending the dollar difference, maybe it's worth a few extra bucks to avoid the headache of all the coordination? After all, time is our most valuable resource.

So even though the 0.903 BGD is rated "Negligible" for fluor, there is still a bit of fluor to it? Is that the only thing that makes it less expensive than usual?

Point blank, I goofed up. I was thinking about the BGD Blue stone we looked at earlier that had medium fluor. The 0.903 is rated negligible according to AGS and that means none or such small traces it's non-meaningful.

For a stone to be considered eligible for the BGD Blue series, it must exhibit medium levels or higher; therefore, the 0.903 does not enjoy any discounts from fluor levels.

Instead, the 0.903 is part of the Signature series and a direct comparison to the ACA. However, the 0.903 remains substantially cheaper for ACA stones of similar size, color & clarity.


I was checking the Office image of the 0.903 and I saw this:



I encircled a portion of what looks like a hairline crack for me. What is that? Is that something to be concerned about?

It appears that is the feather that is shown on the clarity plot. See below.

Capture1.PNG

Keep in mind, you saw this in a VERY zoomed condition. All AGS and GIA grading is done with 10x scopes. I believe that picture is zoomed to 40x. Our eyes obviously see in 1x.

While on the BGD site, if you click on the Eye Clean tab, you will see this image. It is magnified to 5x and the feather is not visible.

Capture2.PNG

For peace of mind, I would call Lesley and ask she pull the stone and verify the following items:
  • The stone is 100% eye clean from 6" away. Not only in the face up condition, but if you look at it from the sides. Since the feather is on the pavilion (bottom) of the diamond, we want to make sure you can't rotate the diamond and catch a glimpse of that feather in a rotated or side view.
  • Have her confirm if the feather poses any structural risk to the stone in loose condition, during setting or even after it's set.
  • Inquire what her and Brian's assessment is on the crack, location, etc.

Would requesting a larger/zoomed Hearts image of the 0.903 from Lesley make us conclude better?

If you can get a larger image, I am happy to have another look. However, I don't think it will change the opinion that it seems to be very tightly cut.
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
Is this a "stealth" operation? If so, maybe you could employ the help of her best friend, sister or mom? Women talking and shopping for rings is much different than if you enter the equation. Your presence raises suspicion unless you have a really, really good reason for needing to know her ring size (probably not).

I say this, as you want to get it right from the get go. Also, fingers swell in the different seasons and also as body weights fluctuate. Not to mention pregnancy!

Thus far, my wife's ring has fit perfect, tight and loose -- lol.

From a guy's point of view, I would rather it be slightly large. She may appreciate the flexibility and if it is too big she could ultimately re-size, get sizing rings, etc.

Yes, it is. I can try talking to her sister about it but I don't think they're all fond of rings so this is going to be a hard one. Why would I necessarily need to get it right from the get go? Is re-sizing to a smaller size not that easy or does it always pose risk?

Depends what you specifically want. There are 28 solitaires that popped up from their designer brands for less than $1,000.

In all cases, I recommend 6 prongs. More security, plus the extra 2 prongs help keep the shape looking round as 4 prongs can sometimes make it look square.


I still haven't done my research on the settings but what was suggested to me was to put on "side stones" (if that's the right term) to make it more elegant? Is a Solitaire setting generally the most classic and famous one? Is there any disadvantage to 6 prongs? I thought it covers up a significant area of the round stone?

Also, 14K or 18K? Is it true that if the ring is worn everyday, it's better to go with just 14K?

White gold or yellow gold? Wouldn't yellow gold usually have an effect to the performance of the diamond?

By the time you pay sales tax & the freight forwarders fee, it sounds like you may be getting close to just having it shipped directly.

Depending the dollar difference, maybe it's worth a few extra bucks to avoid the headache of all the coordination? After all, time is our most valuable resource.

It would still be a far difference. Plus, dealing with customs here is a pain especially with high-valued items like this. Not to mention corruption is rampant especially in customs. I think dealing with all the hassle is still worth it, at least for me.

Point blank, I goofed up. I was thinking about the BGD Blue stone we looked at earlier that had medium fluor. The 0.903 is rated negligible according to AGS and that means none or such small traces it's non-meaningful.

For a stone to be considered eligible for the BGD Blue series, it must exhibit medium levels or higher; therefore, the 0.903 does not enjoy any discounts from fluor levels.

Instead, the 0.903 is part of the Signature series and a direct comparison to the ACA. However, the 0.903 remains substantially cheaper for ACA stones of similar size, color & clarity.




It appears that is the feather that is shown on the clarity plot. See below.

Capture1.PNG

Keep in mind, you saw this in a VERY zoomed condition. All AGS and GIA grading is done with 10x scopes. I believe that picture is zoomed to 40x. Our eyes obviously see in 1x.

While on the BGD site, if you click on the Eye Clean tab, you will see this image. It is magnified to 5x and the feather is not visible.

Capture2.PNG

For peace of mind, I would call Lesley and ask she pull the stone and verify the following items:
  • The stone is 100% eye clean from 6" away. Not only in the face up condition, but if you look at it from the sides. Since the feather is on the pavilion (bottom) of the diamond, we want to make sure you can't rotate the diamond and catch a glimpse of that feather in a rotated or side view.
  • Have her confirm if the feather poses any structural risk to the stone in loose condition, during setting or even after it's set.
  • Inquire what her and Brian's assessment is on the crack, location, etc.



If you can get a larger image, I am happy to have another look. However, I don't think it will change the opinion that it seems to be very tightly cut.

I just emailed Lesley and asked all these things. I'm not sure if I need to worry about that feather but let's see what Lesley says. Based from what I've been reading, a rating of SI1 even with feathers is generally "safe" but still a feather is a hairline crack and is the flaw that most people generally want to avoid especially if it affects durability.

Update from JannPaul:

- they are still waiting news from their Super Ideal cut Master cutter if they can produce something in the lower color/clarity grades
- they've heard back from their White series Master cutter and he says that they have a potential diamond rough that can be cut into a:

Decagon 10 H&A, approximately a 0.93ct H-I colour, VS1-VVS2 at USD 4900

- that cost is fixed and it also has a potential of being in the higher colour (H) range. They're saying that this is an extremely special piece as the rough was procured at a special price with lower exchange rates and that the additional savings are being passed to me (looks like marketing talk, but I don't know)
- if the custom Decagon cut goes beyond the H-I range (G for example), the 4900 USD price stays the same and the extra cost will be absorbed by them
- if the diamond turns out to be lower than I colour (subjected to AGS grading), it will be fully refundable
- a 500 USD is required to start the custom cutting process and the diamond rough journey will be provided. The final scope images and videos will also be provided once the stone arrives locally in SG
- Chloe even made a personalized video for me that explains the difference between their Ideal and Decagon cuts vs. a stone that's considered a GIA XXX but is not cut good:

What is your take on those Decagon cuts?
 

kevindd992002

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
49
Reply from Lesley:

- larger Hearts image: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hs45n9gpwko6w1i/Hearts Image.PNG?dl=0

1. I am not sure where you are getting 6" from as this is not the industry standard and the usual eye clean measurement is from 8-10" under normal lighting conditions. The diamond is eye clean in the face up position. 100% is finite and I can't confirm that as your eyes might see something that no one else can see if you look long and hard enough. If you have very keen eye sight you will see a tiny white inclusion from the bottom - please keep in mind that all diamonds are graded in the face up position with a microscope.
2. There is no structural risk posed by the feather - it does not break the surface.
3. Please explain what you mean by "crack" - there is no crack noted anywhere?

I just responded to her and explained back.
 
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