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No MWM ring for me.

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Gypsy

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
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After my conversation with Mark I was feeling very good (you could probably tell by my post) about Mark, and he had expressed his enthusiasm about my project... so I sent him a Power Point Presentation detailing everything we had talked about. I just used my the same presentation I had used for other querries.. but adapted it to the new ring design....

And he took great offense to it and the tone of it... and has declined my project. Apparently my presentation reminded him of a really horrible person he dealt with and to qoute, ''once bitten, twice shy.''

No MWM ring for me.

I still respect him and believe his is a great guy, and of course believe it is his perrogative to decline a project.

Back to the drawing board.
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Oh thats sad. That would have really upset me.
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Date: 2/8/2007 3:24:42 PM
Author:Gypsy
After my conversation with Mark I was feeling very good (you could probably tell by my post) about Mark, and he had expressed his enthusiasm about my project... so I sent him a Power Point Presentation detailing everything we had talked about. I just used my the same presentation I had used for other querries.. but adapted it to the new ring design....


And he took great offense to it and the tone of it... and has declined my project. Apparently my presentation reminded him of a really horrible person he dealt with and to qoute, ''once bitten, twice shy.''


No MWM ring for me.


I still respect him and believe his is a great guy, and of course believe it is his perrogative to decline a project.


Back to the drawing board.
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Awww . . .no !!!
Did he take offense to the powerpoint presentation being sent or the email ? I guess I don''t understand but I am sad for you. Hang in there.
 
well it wasn''t meant to be!!

better you know it now than halfway through the project...but yes it''s unfortunate.

have you tried talking with him at all?
 
I''m sorry Gypsy. I know how excited you were about your project and finding the right person to make it for you. Have faith, the right one is out there. Have you thought about Ocean, the gal Wink uses. I saw part of the presentation they did with Cehra and she and Wink both seemed to be open to, enough love all the detail Cehra put into her design ideas. anyway, better to know you''re not a match now then 1/2 way through..
 
I did send him an email explaining where I was coming from... but his wife replied and made it clear that it was over as far as he was concerned...

Funny thing is... the vendors I have sent this presentation to always love it because they say it makes my needs clear and my ideas concrete. Oh course... most of those have been ''build to print'' folk... and Mark is not.

These are the phrases he took offense to... mea culpa:

Regarding the diamonds used in the setting:
"And, though this may not be necessary to state, as perfectly matched and aligned as possible"

Regarding the setting itself:


If there is a question on whether or not I want "‘exhibition quality’ or ‘saleable quality’ ... would like this setting executed as flawlessly as possible"

You might remember that the question of ‘exhibition quality’ v ‘saleable quality’ came up in the baguette halo querries... which amazed us all.


Here was his response:

" really only have one quality to offer. I''ve built a reputation within and outside of my industry with my level of fit and finish. However, I did attempt to work with a young lady who felt she had "microscopic vision". She first came to me with a document that was not unlike yours in content . She found herself scrutinizing things I had never though about in my 36 years on the work bench. Unfortunately, many of her unstated prior assumptions came to light after I delivered her ring. In an effort to avoid "Death by a thousand small cuts", I bought my work back from her boyfriend.

When you state:

I would like this setting executed as flawlessly as possible

I have to ask - Why wouldn''t you? But I also need to ask: "Flawless" by who''s standard?

I enjoyed our talk yesterday very much.

In considering our earlier discussions about keeping costs under control along with today''s document wherein you feel the need to mention:

Ø""And, though this may not be necessary to state, as perfectly matched and aligned as possible.""

Without mincing words, the above comment reminds me too much of comments made by a handful of others over the course of my career who I should not have tried to please. When I hear a comment such as the one above, a switch is thrown in my thought process that causes me to second guess every move I make on behalf of whomever made that statement. Ultimately, I spend much more time on that project than necessary. When my work is well received, it''s very rare for my work to not be well received, I still end up on the losing end because of the excessive time spent.

I do my kind of work to a degree of fit and finish that has established me in some very good circles but at the end of the day, I''m simply a craftsman trying to do good work for those who trust me to do so. I regret that this is the time for me to thank you very much for considering me for your project but I feel it''s in my best interest to decline your request.

I wish you well moving forward.

Best

Mark Morrell"
 
Huh?? That''s a shame. You would think that he''d want someone who has a clear vision of what they want done. You said you clicked with him in the your other thread. Not sure why the power point presentation scared him off. Or what reminded him of his past client... But who knows?? Anyway as Mara said best to know now than later... I''m sure you are very dissapointed.
 
I really am very dissapointed...but it really is his perrogative.

I think its a sign that I really should just not do this re-set at all. I don''t think it was meant to be.
 
Oh gosh I''m so sorry Gypsy! It all seemed so good, and like it would work wth him. It bites to think you''ve found the one then have to start again.

I feel for you! Sounds a little harsh judging you by his bad experience with someone else. Good luck with finding someone else to share your vision...

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Wow. I''m usually just a lurker but I had to comment on this.

I''m not experienced in the custom jewelry world by any means, but it seems absurd to have your project declined because you dared to state explicitly what you wanted. I read through Mark Morrell''s website the other day after reading your original thread and I thought his statements on the website sounded incredibly arrogant. This just confirms my first impression of him.

I guess I just don''t have much patience for artists who are selling their work commercially but are unwilling to work with who is actually buying it.

With that said, I''m sorry to hear about your project being declined as you seemed so excited in your post about your conversation with him. Good luck on your search and I hope you''re not deterred from stating exactly what you want in the future.
 
At first I was a bit taken aback but I can sort of see where he's coming from after reading more. It's unfortunate that this is setting off bells and whistles for him, but he did explain himself pretty reasonably as to what happened in the past and why it was never a win/win. It's a shame though! ...BUT, definitely better to clash horns now than later!!!
 
It''s probably for the best. I can see how those phrases could be perceived as "insulting" to an artist known (and probably CHOSEN) for his perfectionism. Especially after a discussion where "trust" was presumably built -- only to be dashed by a form-letter presentation stating seemingly obvious requests: I want it "flawless" ... please make it "even"???

This seems like a case of "upper hand". Artists like MWM get to pick & choose what they do with their time. Don''t treat them with kid gloves & your project won''t be chosen. Seem like you''re not possible to please ... why bother trying?

Next!

Ya might have to decide if you want to romance an artiste & let him do his thing .... or completely control the process with someone whose ego can take it.
 
Hey Gypsy, sorry about your disappointment, Wink is on-line now, go talk to him on communicator.
 
I can't Irina... at work the communicator is blocked-- I can only to that with my home computer... and I'm at work for another 5 hours, at least.
Thank you for the suggestion though!
 
I have another suggestion than, i never recommend any of our advertisers (if anybody noticed), but yesterday i saw an absolutely exquisite ring made by Mark Turnovsky, did you see it???
 
OMG....I''m SO SORRY to hear this!!! Rats!!!

I suspect Deco is getting close to the truth...that the ''form letter'' (after having clicked so well over the phone) threw him off, and reminded him of his prior horrible experience.

This really is too bad....I bet he really would have enjoyed working with you (I''ve met you in person....you''re so cool!
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My...I guess working with artistes really can be tricky...
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Date: 2/8/2007 4:17:36 PM
Author: Pricescope
I have another suggestion than, i never recommend any of our advertisers (if anybody noticed), but yesterday i saw an absolutely exquisite ring made by Mark Turnovsky, did you see it???
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Wow, you recommending someone on here! I''m shocked! I''d love to see his ring, I haven''t seen it yet I assume its in SMTR though... I did work with him at little on the baguette halo ring... and it was a good experience... but I knew exactly what I wanted for that project. For this one I need someone to ''fill in the gaps'' so to speak... I don''t know what I think about Mark doing that, I know I don''t feel comfortable with Quest or WF doing that as I think of them as more ''build to print''... funny thing is Mark Morrell mentioned it passing that one of his collegues made a ring similar to mine at one time... don''t really know how to ask him for a referrence, though.

I''ll have to consider Mark T.

I was also thinking about asking the appraisers on here who have seen MWM''s work if they know of anyone who does anything similar in terms of quality.
 
Have you talked to Bill Pearlman?
He represents several designers/artists and could likely match you up with one that fits your requirements.

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/
 
Well, this is not the first time Mark has treated a client less that favorably. I know, because I was treated like crap by him. The actual product that I received from him was very well done, but I would never do business with him again. I provided pics, of the ring designs that I wanted and tried to be as specific as possible and let it go at that. I did not badger or ask for anything that he didn't supply to other clients (as I read and researched). It was like pulling teeth to even get the CAD images. He is so arrogant and stuck on himself, but he is NOT the only one who can do quality work. I recently went to his website via a link that someone posted and saw what the other poster was referring to earlier in this thread...he comes off arrogant there and in person.

I'm so glad that I can depend on Wink and his cadre of very talented benchmen and have received many pieces of beautiful jewelry from him. Leon Mege is just as skilled and I have worked with him (gotten beautiful earrings) with much success. He can be a little on the gruff side, but I attribute that to English not being his first language. Once we found our chemistry (and it was findable because Leon's NOT on Mars, like some people) then all was good.

Gypsy, be glad you didn't have to endure Mark.
 
Good idea, Storm!

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(this had totally bummed me out...)
 
Just some general observations....

I would think its a sign of prefessionalism and pride in his own work that he would decline a project based upon the requests of his client or whether he feels he could meet the client''s expecatations. Its pretty clear by doing a search here or on google that former clients are generally incredibly enthusiastic about the jewelry he creates...and he is an artist and when you approach an artist you should look at ALL of his creations to determine if what he creates is something that is compatible with your sense of aesthetics. The way you build trust in an artist who is commissioned to create something is to view their portfolio and determine compatibility.

Maybe thats just me....
 
well i can better see mark's point in his email. honestly, he probably has more work than he can handle in general and so YES if i were him if i thought 'ding ding red flag' on a customer (esp if it reminded me of a horrible past experience where i possibly lost $$ and a serious amount of time and cost me frustration)...i would totally decline the project. he did it in a very respectful manner and i think he's to be commended. not many people actually TURN AWAY customers...and i think he knows he may not be able to please you in the end (not anyone's fault!!) so he may not want to go down that road and end up having it be heartache for you both. it's costing him as well as you to turn this down, and to me that says something.

i can definitely see both sides of the story. but quite honestly, seriously better to know now than later. and i can sympathize with him on having his work scrutinized by super detailed customers, we see it ALL THE TIME here on PS. not that anyone is WRONG. but people like that need to really work with people who understand them and are willing to make sure they go the thousandth extra mile so that everyone is happy. and some people may just not be able to do it!

anyhow, i wouldn't get all crazy and be like 'oh this is not meant to happen'...quite honestly i think sometimes the drama can be really enhanced mentally...why don't you just table the whole thing for a year or two? it's really not the end of the world to not do the project now. you have a ton of other things going on. at some point when it's just not fun anymore...it's time to take a break.
 
Oh Gypsy, what a bummer!! I''m probably as anal and detail oriented as you, so I can really relate to how you might feel right now. The way I see it there are two ways to get a quality ring done: 1) you can choose an artist like leon or MM and have little input and have to *trust* that the final product will turn out beautifully, or 2) chose someone more like WF who does quality work, but without the artisan nature or ego and have quite a bit of input, but you might not have the level of detail or craftsmanship as leon or mm.

Tough call...depending on the project, I might *trust* leon or MM with it, but with other designs I want a ring made to order exactly the way I specified. This was the case with my five stone band. I had a specific idea in mind and I wanted someone to execute it well rather than give artisitc input and for this the ppt presentation worked well.
 
Date: 2/8/2007 4:09:13 PM
Author: decodelighted
It''s probably for the best. I can see how those phrases could be perceived as ''insulting'' to an artist known (and probably CHOSEN) for his perfectionism. Especially after a discussion where ''trust'' was presumably built -- only to be dashed by a form-letter presentation stating seemingly obvious requests: I want it ''flawless'' ... please make it ''even''???

This seems like a case of ''upper hand''. Artists like MWM get to pick & choose what they do with their time. Don''t treat them with kid gloves & your project won''t be chosen. Seem like you''re not possible to please ... why bother trying?

Next!

Ya might have to decide if you want to romance an artiste & let him do his thing .... or completely control the process with someone whose ego can take it.
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I am really sorry to hear this as well, Gypsy. I agree with Deco''s first point. I think your PP would be good for an unknown custom jeweler, but since Mark Morrell is fairly much known for the highest quality work (shown in highly magnified photos), it would maybe be a little insulting to tell him some of those things. I think some ideas of what size stones and some pictures of styles you like would have been fine. In my case, as an example, I just asked him what kind of melee he used and he told me, and I said it was fine (rather than me telling him what I expected before asking him). Handmade jewelry is rarely perfect...there''s always cast jewlery for people who want something identical to a sample. But I think when you get to the level of Mark Morrell or Leon, it goes without saying that their quality is the highest, so they probably don''t need your full powerpoint. At least that is something to consider the next time.
 
Oh Gypsy I am so sorry to hear about your experience, but as others have indicated working with Mark Morrell just wasn''t meant to be. You apparently reminded him of some client he had a bad experience with so it is probably for the best that you move on to someone else who can appreciate your vision (and there IS someone out there)! Please don''t give up!!!
 
At least Mark(MWM) hasnt gone the route of having a half dozen others do all the work then put his name on it and expect people to be ok with it like a certain designer named in this thread.

edit for clarity.
 
There were a few posts posted while I was writing my last post, and I just wanted to say that I called Mark late last week and had rough CAD images by Monday, I think. I am sure the speed depends very much on how many projects he has going at a time. I am just saying that with a designer like Mark or Leon, you do have to allow time for the project to be completed. Jadeleaves patiently waited months for her gorgeous new set, and I think it speaks for itself. I think she''d say it was worth the wait.

In line with what Mara was saying, these designers may consider us both a blessing and a curse...we are pickier than the average person but we also do promote their products when we are pleased.
 
Gypsy, it is also very possible that the client MM had problems with had valid complaints. there are two sides to every story. Again, I think it just showed that powerpoint and MM don''t mix well but there are other just as talented designers out there who would love to work with you and welcome you pp ideas. Don''t give up hope, you''ve been given some great suggestions here and just need to stay positive
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Well, the verbiage on his website indicates (and has indicated) that he likes very specific, well thought out projects. A person would naturally think to be as specific as possible rather than waste his or their time flip-flopping and being generally indecisive. That could drive any custom jewelry maker nuts.

But when it is emphasized "very specific" it could be reasonably concluded that the potential client should have a very focused idea of what they want. All gypsy did was be specific, which is what was stated as being desired by Mark on his website. Then all of a sudden the "artisan diva" comes out and now she''s too specific? When I read this from his website, it comes off arrogant and condescending...There is a less crappy way to convey the point he wants to make. If I want someone to flip me the birdie, I''ll cut them off in traffic! LOL!

General Information
Regarding accent stones (baguettes, trapezoids, "fancies" in general) and small round diamonds (melle) to accompany your center diamond:

Please don''t buy a suite of stones with the assumption that I''m willing to set whatever I receive from your sources.


I''ll provide any necessary small stones for the work that I do. If I''m unable source the stones myself, then we''ll discuss our options.


If you feel the need to have a particular vendor''s small / accent diamonds used in your project, there is every chance that the vendor can help you with your mounting needs as well. You won''t need my advocacy.

 
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