need help with e-ring design (with lots of pics!!)

[MattEffinCameron]

I found the following ring online and it became the inspiration for the e-ring I am having made...






I wanted to customize it a little....adding a subtle claddagh design under the setting on one side and changing one aspect of it I wasnt crazy about...hoping to really turn it into something amazing. I am working with a local jeweler to have this made and I just had my first review of their first take at the design and...well its got potential but I was a little underwhelmed...so I wanted to get some PS ideas so that I can provide the mode constructive feedback for the next iteration.

 

[MattEffinCameron]

Referencing these pics, I dont mind, but really am not crazy about the filgree pattern/design i drew a red line through on the underside of the ring. I feel like something more intricate/delicate/significant could be put there to make the ring even nicer. I do like what I have circled in pink which is how that pattern just seems to fade away (to my eye) as opposed to having a sharp edge where it ends...

Also what I think is the most important aspect of this ring is in orange, the way it widens ever so slightly and then pinches down to nothing right at the stone. I feel like that look is what makes this ring so delicate looking and really what makes it unique compared with other pieces I have seen...

 

[MattEffinCameron]

These are the renderings of the design they came up with, next post will be some shots of the wax model....not sure what your thoughts are but im not thrilled, it really missed the boat IMO in terms of capturing the look/feel of the ring I am trying to replicate.

Biggest problem IMO, is that the design does not widen and taper like the example, instead, like so many rings I see out there (no offense ot anyone who has a ring like this, its just not something that appeals to me personally) it is basically a constant width and then just tapers slightly just before the stone.

Additoinally, in those "shoulders" where you can see the melee (accent stones?) will be set, they have come up with some geometric looking design that I really dont care for. I cant tell from the original pictures what kind of pattern they had in there but I know the design the jewler put in there does not look right to me.

I REALLY like the claddagh design and how that came out. IT is really clear what it is, it fits in nicely, and it is subtle enough so as not to be obvious and certainly does not dominate the ring, but she will know it is there. I really didnt want this to be some gimmicky ring which is why I wanted the claddagh just on one side...on the other side I dont mind but am not crazy about the celtic design opposite the claddagh...it might cross the line into being gimmicky (or maybe not, im still feeling it out).

And finally, the filgree design is the same as in the sample ring, so I would like to step that up a little if possible...and it has a hard edge on the bottom (not like what is circled in pink above) and that sort of bugs me a little

 

[MattEffinCameron]

 

[JulieN]

If you want to take this design to the next level, have it hand engraved.

 

[TC1987]

I think more of Van Craeynest when I look at that first ring. Are their rings out of your price range?

 

[MattEffinCameron]

doublepost..

 

[MattEffinCameron]

JulieN...have which parts hand engraved? the filigree and the part surrounding the accent stone on either side? I dont know if this jeweler does hand engraving, or if they are good at it, or if I could afford it, or if I could get my deposit back and go somewhere that does

 

[Gypsy]

There's several issues. But I agree with Julie. The biggest problem is that it's not hand engraved and should be.

As for your deposit and budget... what is the price you were quoted on the setting? For what metal?

 

[MattEffinCameron]

I was quoted 1600 in platinum for the setting...when I was buying the stone from the store. That price went to 2200 if I bring in my own stone. Put down a 500 dollar deposit when I gave them the initial design and they started.

 

[MattEffinCameron]

the more I look at this the more frustrated I am....Like how could you look at the picture I gave you, give me the ring you designed and think its the same? Maybe im being too harsh...

 

[Gypsy]

CAD can be hard. Actually it's not too bad, it's something we can work with.

Here, look at this thread, it will make you feel better.

Compare the first set of CADs to the inspiration ring, and then watch the journey. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-with-cads-for-my-ec-please.194129/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-with-cads-for-my-ec-please.194129/[/URL]

 

[Gypsy]

For 2200 you could work with someone else. I wouldn't pay 2200 for what is in that CAD image in platinum.
Singlestone may or may not be in budget. But it is worth a call.
I personally think we can find you vendor better used to working with vintage type settings for that price. I'd contact Jewels by Erica Grace myself and see if they can do better if Singlestone prices out of budget (they are very expensive).

Also, as mentioned, I would look through Van Craynest's (I'm spelling that wrong) settings and see if there is a standard catalog setting by them that matches or is close. I'd be surprised if there wasn't.

 

[MattEffinCameron]

thanks for your help...I looked through van craeynest's settings but didnt see anything similar. Most of the places with nice vintage style settings are more ornate/larger than this one I think (unless I missed part of the van craeynest catalog)

I agree that I could probably go elsewhere (including somewhere better) for 2200 but if I lose the 500 dollar deposit by backing out that cuts into my budget quite a bit. I dont even know how to go about asking if I can get my deposit back, I am guessing they would say no, then i imagine it will be more difficult working with them knowing that I wanted to go elsewhere.

There were some pretty tremendous improvements in the thread you linked me to so maybe there is hope for this one yet. One of my biggest concerns is them not being able to match the feminine and delicate feel of the inspiration setting. They said that the band (on thhe bottom) of the inspiration setting is too thin and it would bend or break or whatever and they cant go any thinner than what this rendering shows...which worries me. I would hate for them to add in the "band getting wider and then tapering" look and make the ring big in the process.

 

[JulieN]

Those antique settings probably didn't start out that thin when they were new. Make it about 1.8mm on the bottom which should satisfy everybody, unless it is already less i n the CAD. A lot of women do grip things hard and then their ring goes out of round.

Pictures are worth 1000 words: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-wife-bent-her-tacori-help.146166/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-wife-bent-her-tacori-help.146166/[/URL]
and just search for bent platinum.

 

[Gypsy]

1.8 or 2mm is as thin as you want to go on the band. The inspiration ring was worn to that taper, the metal worn away.

I'd ask them to increase the visual taper but only go down 1.8 at the thinnest point. And they should hand engrave all the patterns on the shank, not cast them.

If they won't hand engrave. Use that to get out of the contract and get your deposit. Tell them the original was hand engraved, and you assumed they would do the same, not cast the design. And that's why they charged you so much. If they won't hand engrave then you want your deposit back and start new with someone else.

Here's something to read: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-jewelry-work-cad-and-cast-psa.175834/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-jewelry-work-cad-and-cast-psa.175834/[/URL]

 

[JulieN]

this is just an idea, but on the claddagh side (i love that the two sides are not identical!) I think the crown you have on top of the heart is a little much.

Inspired by a coronet or diadem, I'm thinking there should be an apex like this, which you see instead of a horizontal bar in the basket , there is a ^ shape: http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/legato-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-728.htm
But instead of straight sides, it should be a curve; this swoops down, I want it to swoop up: http://www.b2cjewels.com/Diamond-Ac...Shank-14K-White-Gold-(3-8-cttw.)-10038-1.aspx Or if you leave it swooping down it kinda mimics the knot side. Check out the baskets on this page: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/setting-for-an-avr-poll.179578/page-6']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/setting-for-an-avr-poll.179578/page-6[/URL]

I'd like to have the engraving at least hand finished. It is more expensive. That rhombus design has got to go. Wheat, leaves, flowers and scrolls are some typical designs.

 

[MattEffinCameron]

Thanks for all your input. I would like to continue (with the help of those on these forums) to refine the design as much as possible over the next 12-24 hours and then go back to them with all of my notes (probably compiled into a picture like this) and I will ask them at that time about hand engraving the details. I would like to figure out what designs/patterns I would like in where the geometric shapes are now and where the filigree is on the sides and provide them with example images.

Gypsy can you confirm (in the pics below) that I am understanding what you are describing in terms of shank thickness? the bottom part of the shank should be no thinner than 1.8-2mm but the top part near the stone where it pinches together will be much less right? (See picture 1)

And JulieN is this what you meant by a coronet/diadem? (see Picture 1) I think I am having trouble picturing what components of the rings you have linked me to you are referencing in how they apply to this design....

 

[JulieN]

Just to straighten out terminology, your ring is engraved, not filigree. I like having two different designs, one on top and one on the side. Yes, you got my idea with a coronet exactly, I was talking about the basket that holds the diamond, and specifically the bar above the claddagh heart. Another option is to have a solid bar with milgrain on the edges, and then an engraved crown, or a semi circle of sunburst rays, it could look nice. Like this is a half flower: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-varna-e-ring.82794/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-varna-e-ring.82794/[/URL] I like the knot very much, I wouldn't take it out.

 

[MattEffinCameron]

just threw this together in visio of all things...since obviously my boss didnt want me doing work today...

This is to scale:
a 2mm wide (and thick) shank, with an internal diameter of 15mm (given ring size of 3.75) and a 5mmx5mm stone (which is a little under those I am looking at). I flared out the apexes to a total width of 3MM (.5mm on each side).

This might be as good as I am able to get as far as obtaining the effect of that inspiration ring goes without risking the integrity of the band?

 

[MattEffinCameron]

So, on nov 18 they sent me draft renderings. On the 20/21 I sent back the two images with notes...



The two images below are the next iterations I got just today, the 30th...let me know what you think of the design they have sent me compared to the "inspiration" ring I am trying to copy. I know the CAD designs can look a little different than the real thing. I think it has made some progress but i dont know if its there....or if it will ever get there without hand engraving. Oh, and I checked with singlestone, still talking to them but I think they will be out of my budget.

 

[MattEffinCameron]

So, on nov 18 they sent me draft renderings. On the 20/21 I sent back the two images with notes...



The two images below are the next iterations I got just today, the 30th...let me know what you think of the design they have sent me compared to the "inspiration" ring I am trying to copy. I know the CAD designs can look a little different than the real thing. I think it has made some progress but i dont know if its there....or if it will ever get there without hand engraving. Oh, and I checked with singlestone, still talking to them but I think they will be out of my budget.

 

[jess719]

I really like the second version much better! They seemed to listen to what you wanted!!

 

[Gypsy]

Looking much better.

But are they going to hand engrave it or not? Because that, IMO, is going to make all the difference.

 

[MattEffinCameron]

Can you help me understand the world of hand engraving a little more to better frame my conversation with them?

Would they render a design in CAD just for representation but then not machine it, just hand engrave it afterward or would it show as blank in the CAD? Could the design shown work, IF they hand engrave it? Or would a hand engraved design be much more delicate/elaborate/etc. Basically im not sure if I am supposed to say yes that looks great, but do this part by hand, or if im supposed to say no that just isnt cutting it, this section needs to be hand engraved?

Also, what is the liklihood that this jewelry store will have the capability to do hand engraving? Like how do I know if I go in with the approach that it needs to be hand engraved, the machining isnt cutting it...or im going to walk, and by some unlikely chance they really dont want me to walk so they just agree to do it by hand and then it looks like shit because they dont really have the skill?

And if I find somewhere else to make this ring, do they all at least use CAD for the blank and then hand engrave that or is the whole thing done by hand somehow or does it vary? Basically I am trying to get some context for singestone's price, is that what a hand engraved ring will cost or is that doing MORE by hand than I really need?

thanks!

 

[MattEffinCameron]

Can you help me understand the world of hand engraving a little more to better frame my conversation with them?

Would they render a design in CAD just for representation but then not machine it, just hand engrave it afterward or would it show as blank in the CAD? Could the design shown work, IF they hand engrave it? Or would a hand engraved design be much more delicate/elaborate/etc. Basically im not sure if I am supposed to say yes that looks great, but do this part by hand, or if im supposed to say no that just isnt cutting it, this section needs to be hand engraved?

Also, what is the liklihood that this jewelry store will have the capability to do hand engraving? Like how do I know if I go in with the approach that it needs to be hand engraved, the machining isnt cutting it...or im going to walk, and by some unlikely chance they really dont want me to walk so they just agree to do it by hand and then it looks like shit because they dont really have the skill?

And if I find somewhere else to make this ring, do they all at least use CAD for the blank and then hand engrave that or is the whole thing done by hand somehow or does it vary? Basically I am trying to get some context for singestone's price, is that what a hand engraved ring will cost or is that doing MORE by hand than I really need?

thanks!

 

[MattEffinCameron]

thoughts?

 

[JulieN]

You can read about custom design and fabrication here: http://www.greenlakejewelry.com/custom_process.aspx

For your specific ring you need to ask the jeweler how they plan on going about it. Good cast designs are perfectly acceptable on a budget, do have it hand milgrained, though.

 

[Gypsy]

Hand engraving is applied after the cast.
The CAD can show it or not. Depends on the CAD artist.

All you have to do is ask: Is the engraving CAST or hand engraved. If they say CAST tell them you want it hand engraved. If they can't do it in house they can send out to get it done. Many places do.

And no, I don't think that for the price you are paying the engraving should be cast. It's cheap, and frankly it looks that way.

 

[MattEffinCameron]

Thanks for the responses guys! I am going in tomorrow so I will find out.

When you say it looks cheap do you mean my design is? or an engraved ring is and look cheap?

I am going to look around online and see if I can find some examples of hand engraved detail vs cast detail. I am pretty confident that their plan is to cast it since they previously printed the engravings on the wax model....not sure how they will react to me asking for it to be done by hand...I am anticipating they will give me a funny look and say thats going to cost more and how the casting is "the same thing".


Help me with my design guys! I am a dude who has never bought fine jewelry working with a jeweler who for better or for worse isnt blowing me away with their contributions to custom design a ring for my future wife...dont let me screw it up! I want this to be amazing!

I definitely like the new designs on the "shoulder" more than the geographic designs. They seem a little simple and chunky but that might be because it is a CAD rendering and its zoomed way in.

What do you think of the milgraine detail? It doesnt look like the original had that unless it rubbed off. I think I like it but im not 100%...

Unsure if I should be pushing them a little more on the "flare then pinch" look on the shoulder to make it look more like the inspiration ring or if this is how it should look and the inspiration ring is just worn down more because it is older?