My Experience and Recommendations on Round Brilliant Diamond purchase

[sledge]

@mx5_dvr please before you left this forum can you answer just 1 question everyone is curious about? Have you got a super ideal before? Can you link the specific diamond which you got and you returned because you think it looks the same? Thank you.

I doubt the OP responds; however, all prior threads they created were GIA XXX stones, usually from BN or JA.

I saw no TH or even Astor Ideals linked. Yes, I realize the Astor line Is very misleading and not a super ideal. And the TH is hit & miss in comparison to the tighter controls of other super ideal vendors. My point is each of these vendors “best cuts” didn’t show up as links in their threads.

So based on this extremely limited information it does not appear such a purchase occurred. They also never shared an experience of a visit to a super ideal vendor. Of course that doesn’t mean neither occurred. It just isn’t clearly stated in prior threads the OP created. I didn’t sift through all responses (their threads & other people’s threads) so maybe there is mention elsewhere.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/search/1042427/

 

[whitewave]

Not exactly WW.

There is unlimited usage on the PS search engine to ID diamonds with HCA excellent (including JA stones even though the certificates are not published. 'We' have been friends since James started his business in about 1999 or earlier).

3 free are given to new consumers who sign up on the forum.

Trade are directed to www.HollowayCutAdviser.com where there are packages (consumers can go there too).

When I decided to develop Looks Like and charge for HCA we implimented a 'granmother' free usage for many of our long term helpers on the forum.

On the new developments department - it seems we are getting close to a much higher level on Looks Like. The OP who started this thread is unaware that HCA LL estimates the lakage and APPARENT diamond size as well as the spread. That is why it was granted a patent.

US10739271B2 - Gemstone periphery light qualification system - Google Patents

A gemstone periphery light qualification system that includes a gemstone parameter instrument, a periphery light gauge and a qualifier. The gemstone parameter instrument provides gemstone parameters where the gemstone parameters can provide a girdle dimension. The periphery light gauge that...

patents.google.com

The current LL only works for round diamonds and is based (like HCA and GIA's copy of HCA) look up charts as estimates only.
We hope to launch a real system this year that uses real 3D models and calculates (not estimates) the peripheral leakage. This will happen online by uploading an .stl file and dozens of tilted images will be generated and calculations of the periheral light return made with a score given in visual carat size (not weight).

THIS WILL GIVE THE APPARENT CARAT WIGHT OF ANY SHAPED DIAMOND!!!!

To the OP - you have had some very gracious comments from people with expertise and constraint.

wonderful! thank you, Garry, and I look forward to using this new technology soon.

oh and yes, I use the PS search engine.

 

[whitewave]

Hi @whitewave! I have never seen a super ideal cut in person. I always follow these types of threads discussing the importance of the cut and I have learned a lot over the years on this forum. Sadly for me, my hubby and I purchased my "engagement ring" (actually, my 50th bday present) before I really understood about the importance of cut and the super ideals. I love my stone, but is nowhere near an ideal, much less super ideal, cut. I would really like to see one or more in person! Do you know how I can do that, in NYC, without commitment and just to learn?

Since I am not in the market to replace my diamond, I don't want to go through the expense and risk of ordering one just to return it. Also, that doesn't seem nice to do. Thanks so much for any thoughts on this you might have.

I can only tell you what I did, which was buy a .37 K color stone from HP Diamonds, which I immediately upgraded to a .56G which I wore as a solitaire for about 2 years maybe. Then it became a side stone for a ring. I could see the difference in cut with the .37.

 

[whitewave]

Well, James Allen's one is also a "virtual diamond". So I think it's a fair comparison. I am not saying WF has the worst pricing but I am saying JA has good pricing.

Also, I wouldn't think it's that hard to locate the same diamond from other online retailer if one requests the report from online chat and get all information from the GIA report other than the certifcate number. I would think one could search a diamond by exact color, carat, depth, table, etc and narrow down pretty quickly and then match every word/value on the certificate (except certificate number).

I understand JA's handling of GIA report is annoying, but for me personally, that's not enough to not use them as benefits still far

I believe All Of JA stones are virtual, which is because they are a drop shipper and are accessing stones from a master list. This is why sometimes when a person goes to buy a stone, it is unavailable to them and they only find that out after they have placed the order.

you hit on one benefit of super ideal vendors.... all stones are in house and have been fully vetted.

 

[elle_chris]

I don't know what "war" broke out over ideal vs excellent cut but I've always had more or less the same criteria as @mx5_dvr

When we decided on a new e-ring diamond, it was after I've already purchased H&A's from GOG and WF and I decided that for me.. a super ideal h&a didn't trump color, clarity or carat - in that order.

I wanted a great stone, but didn't care so much about it being perfect. So that's what I got, a GIA excellent. It's a beautiful stone that still met WF's upgrade policy back then. Oddly enough, I never chose to upgrade so I'm definitely not the typical Pricescoper.

Still, there are benefits to buying from ideal cut vendors. I mean you're pretty much guaranteed a gorgeous diamond without having to spend time calling in stones and hoping that visually, the look as good as the numbers say.

Either way, you should stick around mx5. I think a lot of people feel the way you do.

​

 

[whitewave]

I don't know what "war" broke out over ideal vs excellent cut but I've always had more or less the same criteria as @mx5_dvr

When we decided on a new e-ring diamond, it was after I've already purchased H&A's from GOG and WF and I decided that for me.. a super ideal h&a didn't trump color, clarity or carat - in that order.

I wanted a great stone, but didn't care so much about it being perfect. So that's what I got, a GIA excellent. It's a beautiful stone that still met WF's upgrade policy back then. Oddly enough, I never chose to upgrade so I'm definitely not the typical Pricescoper.

Still, there are benefits to buying from ideal cut vendors. I mean you're pretty much guaranteed a gorgeous diamond without having to spend time calling in stones and hoping that visually, the look as good as the numbers say.

Either way, you should stick around mx5. I think a lot of people feel the way you do.

​

The difference is you saw a super ideal (I presume it was ACA from Whiteflash?) and you decided it wasn’t for you.

Perfect. You aren’t guessing about super ideals and you know what you like. You have seen both and you know what your eye goes to more.

OP has never seen a super ideal, and then chooses to dismiss it outright. OP also exaggerated on the price difference.

It’s disingenuous and because its pricescope, Op is going to get called out on that.

Nobody will have a problem with your opinions because you have experienced both and chose non branded non super ideal as the flavor and price you like more and you still have a diamond that is better than the vast majority of people on the street, that is likely gorgeous. It’s wonderful all around.

 

[musicloveranthony]

If people are leaving because of experiencing disrespectful communication that should seem to warrant a look inward - not a look at them.

People come to forums for different reasons. Some people want to learn and some want to discuss. If discussion is met with a wall of "you're wrong," then this isn't a forum for discussion, nor a forum for learning; it's a forum for being told.

 

[sledge]

I can only tell you what I did, which was buy a .37 K color stone, which I immediately upgraded to a .56G which I wore as a solitaire for about 2 years maybe. Then it became a side stone for a ring. I could see the difference in cut with the .37.

I am always intrigued when I hear stories like these. I think mainly because I realize how uneducated most buyers are, especially in their youth, and also because of the wide variance in GIA’s grading of cut quality.

I know you are very educated today. I am not sure how you started the game. Do you recall the proportions of the 0.32K and if they were of the same caliber you would seek today if buying a GIA stone?

For me, I started dumb as a box of rocks. My eyes could detect color and the most fire in a stone but no one could ever explain in enough detail why it occurred. The typical jeweler says “because it’s GIA XXX” or whatever they are selling that day. Yet when you compare two XXX’s and they aren’t the same few can pinpoint further.

That’s why I love this forum. It has allowed me an opportunity to learn so much. I now try to share what I’ve learned because I realize consumer dimaomd education is very poor overall. While finding awesome stones is the end goal, I find the most rewarding part is helping to educate others. Many days it feels like I learn more from others than I ever have the ability to share.

So hopefully my question to you comes off as genuine as I am trying to learn more about your experience and why super ideals made a huge difference to you.

 

[musicloveranthony]

I am always intrigued when I hear stories like these. I think mainly because I realize how uneducated most buyers are, especially in their youth, and also because of the wide variance in GIA’s grading of cut quality.

I know you are very educated today. I am not sure how you started the game. Do you recall the proportions of the 0.32K and if they were of the same caliber you would seek today if buying a GIA stone?

For me, I started dumb as a box of rocks. My eyes could detect color and the most fire in a stone but no one could ever explain in enough detail why it occurred. The typical jeweler says “because it’s GIA XXX” or whatever they are selling that day. Yet when you compare two XXX’s and they aren’t the same few can pinpoint further.

That’s why I love this forum. It has allowed me an opportunity to learn so much. I now try to share what I’ve learned because I realize consumer dimaomd education is very poor overall. While finding awesome stones is the end goal, I find the most rewarding part is helping to educate others. Many days it feels like I learn more from others than I ever have the ability to share.

So hopefully my question to you comes off as genuine as I am trying to learn more about your experience and why super ideals made a huge difference to you.

This mirrors my early experience buying colored gemstones. I look back at some of my early purchases and just shake my head. I feel so silly when I look at the stones that photographed so well but had such obvious flaws in my hand and in my (later educated) eyes.

 

[munchee]

If you’re reading this thread thru, the problem being raised is not the OP or anyone’s preference over excellent vs Super ideal. We need to talk specifically this case, OP haven’t see super ideal and outright dismissed it which can be misleading information. Its fine if someone prefers excellent cut, trully. But the problem here is misleading information.
Same goes with you @musicloveranthony the problem raised with you is also not that you prefer excellent cut, that is totally fine. But your misleading information about super ideal cost 200-300% more. I followed your comments but choose not to make any comment.
The easiest example is in your own thread saying an ACA cost twice than a diamond that you get, the $1250 L color with faint brown. First, lowest ACA color is K, which is 1 color grade higher than L. Second, even that, it costs $750ish more, not twice. And you continued saying ACA cost 200-300% more in other thread too, so with this kind of misleading information, should we just let it be and make no opposing comment????? and if someone stated a fact you feel being told?

personal preference is perfectly fine here, but please don’t put misleading information in a thread full of traders and people who have extreme passion in diamond.

 

[musicloveranthony]

If you’re reading this thread thru, the problem being raised is not the OP or anyone’s preference over excellent vs Super ideal. We need to talk specifically this case, OP haven’t see super ideal and outright dismissed it which can be misleading information. Its fine if someone prefers excellent cut, trully. But the problem here is misleading information.
Same goes with you @musicloveranthony the problem raised with you is also not that you prefer excellent cut, that is totally fine. But your misleading information about super ideal cost 200-300% more. I followed your comments but choose not to make any comment.

personal preference is perfectly fine here, but please don’t put misleading information in a thread full of traders and people who have extreme passion in diamond.

I don't raise problems - that's exactly the kind of communication method to which I refer. I said something you didn't like. That isn't a problem. It's a disagreement on semantics - in which there is no "winner."

 

[elle_chris]

@whitewave I got the impression from the OP's response to Munchee (on the first page) that they have seen ideal cut stones..

 

[whitewave]

I am always intrigued when I hear stories like these. I think mainly because I realize how uneducated most buyers are, especially in their youth, and also because of the wide variance in GIA’s grading of cut quality.

I know you are very educated today. I am not sure how you started the game. Do you recall the proportions of the 0.32K and if they were of the same caliber you would seek today if buying a GIA stone?

For me, I started dumb as a box of rocks. My eyes could detect color and the most fire in a stone but no one could ever explain in enough detail why it occurred. The typical jeweler says “because it’s GIA XXX” or whatever they are selling that day. Yet when you compare two XXX’s and they aren’t the same few can pinpoint further.

That’s why I love this forum. It has allowed me an opportunity to learn so much. I now try to share what I’ve learned because I realize consumer dimaomd education is very poor overall. While finding awesome stones is the end goal, I find the most rewarding part is helping to educate others. Many days it feels like I learn more from others than I ever have the ability to share.

So hopefully my question to you comes off as genuine as I am trying to learn more about your experience and why super ideals made a huge difference to you.

Oh definitely. When I came here (to ask about my asscher I had just bought blind from Blue Nile), Ross Simon was my jeweler of choice. 2012.

I had also bought stock studs from Mondera (an online store that no longer exists) in .50ctw (the first diamonds I had ever bought). This was probably 2010 and they were uncertified and I went by color range which I think was G/H. I gave them to my daughter. She only wears them for very special occasions (it turns out that I have so far been given a daughter who hates jewelry and who thinks diamonds are “meh“ though she does like my sapphire and HPD ring and she does like pearls, so..... hope)

After my great luck with the asscher, I just picked around a .34 I color round from Blue Nile when I was trying to figure out what to do with my original engagement stone. I was late on returning it (wanted to return on day 30 when it had to be back to them on day 30), so kept it.

(when we bought my original 1993 uncertified engagement stone— .75 round I1– we were told it was a D. The typed appraisal from the gemologist said it was H color, which always confused me because I swore the salesman said it was a D based on the paper the diamond was in. I bought the I color stone because I was going to make a 3 stone pendant across.... a .34 I the .75H and another .34 I until I found out it was going to be unwieldy and not many jewelers recommended doing it across, so I shelved the project. meanwhile, I had the stone independently appraised by Ira blanking on last name and he confirmed it is a D and is whiter than his master D stone which is double graded. We think this is because it also has very strong fluorescence.)

Right after that, I read about HCA here so I ran the numbers and it’s a 2.5 HCA and is a rather pretty stone, so I ended up making it into a pendant for my daughter.

I bought the .37K from HPD because I was so curious. I had, in the meantime, bought well cut (near super ideal parameters as OP mentioned here) studs from Blue Nile. therefore, I had those to compare— so was comparing E color set .44 stone (.88ctw) to the .37 I HPD super ideal).

I could totally see the difference. I would have stayed with an I/J/k for the immediate HPD upgrade, but their smaller stones tend to be higher color and since they have been vetted and the inclusions are usually eye clean (I’m guessing 99% of the time) and my original er was an I1, I went with the .56G sI stone. I set it as a solitaire and then the comments on it started coming.

Long story.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

This mirrors my early experience buying colored gemstones. I look back at some of my early purchases and just shake my head. I feel so silly when I look at the stones that photographed so well but had such obvious flaws in my hand and in my (later educated) eyes.

Good enough gemstones are generally what people get their feet wet with. Because they are pretty and intriguing, even if they are not the finest quality. If you decide you like the water, and you are fortunate to have the wherewithal to acquire more gems, you probably will sharpen your eye and be drawn to finer qualities over time as you see the full range of possibilities.

I know that it has happened to me personally. I used to be in the "value" camp and remember telling people early in my career that I did not know why anyone would buy anything but near colorless, eye clean Si diamonds. The premium for anything higher was too stiff and those diamonds were plenty good enough.

Well, it took several decades of slow evolution on the subject but today I COMPLETELY get why people are thrilled with colorless, microscopically clean, ideal cut diamonds!

 

[whitewave]

If people are leaving because of experiencing disrespectful communication that should seem to warrant a look inward - not a look at them.

People come to forums for different reasons. Some people want to learn and some want to discuss. If discussion is met with a wall of "you're wrong," then this isn't a forum for discussion, nor a forum for learning; it's a forum for being told.

I say this with kindness. I’m not always great with tone, so I want to clarify that to start.

I get the feeling that the OP wants to prove to him/herself that he/she bought a superior stone for a great price, while also calling it “good enough” which I find contradictory.

I’m very happy OP is happy and satisfied with his/her stone and if it is the one he/she posted about in the archives from JA, it is indeed a beautiful stone.

 

[munchee]

I don't raise problems - that's exactly the kind of communication method to which I refer. I said something you didn't like. That isn't a problem. It's a disagreement on semantics - in which there is no "winner."

Again, lol. Its not something we didn’t like, which means preference. But what you’re saying is a misleading information. If you don’t understand my point, this conversation is no use. And my point is regarding your statement that ACA is 200-300% more, which the fact with data, is not! If your statement is also a FACT, you’re free to attached the link supporting your statement. That is what a conversation is in my opinion. Not saying a statement without prove.
Same goes with OP, if she did saw a super ideal, and it looks the same as other excellent diamond, I asked the link and I want to ask the seller why that diamond make super ideal cut. If its the same its not fair to charge the premium price. And if she did see super ideal and choose excellent diamond, its fine, its preference. No one here will have a long convo over a statement of “I prefer excellent over super ideal” or “I saw both and I don’t think its worth it”. We saw a lot of those statements and its OK. But its not a fair statement if she hasn’t see any and said its the same.

 

[whitewave]

I don't raise problems - that's exactly the kind of communication method to which I refer. I said something you didn't like. That isn't a problem. It's a disagreement on semantics - in which there is no "winner."

Well, no, it’s not semantics.

You compared an L color stone with faint brown body color (trades at a discount) to an ACA, which stops at a K and will never have body color. Those are very large differences.

just wanted to point that out.

 

[whitewave]

@whitewave I got the impression from the OP's response to Munchee (on the first page) that they have seen ideal cut stones..

I don’t know. I sometimes feel like he/she has seen super ideals and at other times I feel they haven’t seen super ideals, and OP won’t reply about it so we don’t know.

Also, there is a difference between branded such as a Tiffany round and a super ideal, which I haven’t yet seen a Tiffany round that has scored below a 3 HCA.

 

[sledge]

I don’t know. I sometimes feel like he/she has seen super ideals and at other times I feel they haven’t seen super ideals, and OP won’t reply about it so we don’t know.

Also, there is a difference between branded such as a Tiffany round and super ideal, which I haven’t seen a Tiffany round that hasn’t scored above a 3 HCA yet.

Oh good lawd, did you just drag Tiffany into this?

 

[whitewave]

Oh good lawd, did you just drag Tiffany into this?

I went there


(I had to fix my post about Tiffany and HCA... it’s fixed now)






I guess dragging Tiffany into this also shows the point that some people want Tiffany because it’s branded and famous and shows off well to others when they ask if it’s a Tiffany .... the heart wants what the heart wants and for some people it’s the Tiffany brand over performance. That is the best purchase choice for them.

 

[MrsBlue]

If people are leaving because of experiencing disrespectful communication that should seem to warrant a look inward - not a look at them.

People come to forums for different reasons. Some people want to learn and some want to discuss. If discussion is met with a wall of "you're wrong," then this isn't a forum for discussion, nor a forum for learning; it's a forum for being told.

The OP advised newcomers that super ideals were a marketing ploy. This is simply not true. There is a real difference in angles and symmetry parameters. It's problematic because we don't want to spread inaccurate information. Whether or not those differences are worth it to a buyer is a completely different conversation. We all choose based on what we like and most PSers try to help people find what they like.

On a side note, I've never seen an HPD in real life but there is an absolute quality of sparkle that is obvious in videos people have posted. I would buy one in a heartbeat if my budget allowed it. If I was in the market for an expensive stone, I'd hate to be shoo'ed away from HPD because somebody else thinks differences in performance aren't noticeable.

 

[whitewave]

The OP advised newcomers that super ideals were a marketing ploy. This is simply not true. There is a real difference in angles and symmetry parameters. It's problematic because we don't want to spread inaccurate information. Whether or not those differences are worth it to a buyer is a completely different conversation. We all choose based on what we like and most PSers try to help people find what they like.

On a side note, I've never seen an HPD in real life but there is an absolute quality of sparkle that is obvious in videos people have posted. I would buy one in a heartbeat if my budget allowed it. If I was in the market for an expensive stone, I'd hate to be shoo'ed away from HPD because somebody else thinks differences in performance aren't noticeable.

There is a reason we call it things like the upgrade train.

start with what you can afford since the trade up policy is so generous.

I wore the .56 for a year or two as a solitaire on my 7,25 finger and every time I looked at it, I couldn’t believe how big it looked. Visually, it had the presence of my .75 that I wore for 16 years as an ER.

Since that and another one became side stones, I restarted again with I think a .64 I solitaire.

(I have had 3 surgeries in 7 months and I’m now 6 months out from the last one so I do have anesthesia brain. I think I stated in a different post that the sapphire side stones were E and F but I think it’s either E and G or F and G— sorry for the confusion if anyone caught that).

I am very comfortable for HP diamonds (and if I ever purchase an ACA) with lower clarity, even SI2 because if the stone made it as a HP Diamond or an ACA, that means the inclusions don’t affect the performance. Plus, I don’t like paying for things I can’t see).

I have upgraded the .64 I for the 1.09 K si. As an aside, someone here now owns that .64 I but I can’t remember who (sorry) and I think she made a 5 stone with it.

So one day you may find you can afford a little something, see it and decide if you like it, and then get on the upgrade train.

I love my setting and it is Stuller scroll band with a stuller peg head, so all I do is change out the head, if needed.

 

[winnietucker]

Well, no, it’s not semantics.

You compared an L color stone with faint brown body color (trades at a discount) to an ACA, which stops at a K and will never have body color. Those are very large differences.

just wanted to point that out.

There were actually a couple L ACAs up for sale recently. They were 0.8 something ct each IIRC. Is that a fluke? Cause I’ve been waiting and hoping for a larger L to pop up. I’m going to give up on that dream if it’s a once in a blue moon kind of thing.

 

[whitewave]

There were actually a couple L ACAs up for sale recently. They were 0.8 something ct each IIRC. Is that a fluke? Cause I’ve been waiting and hoping for a larger L to pop up. I’m going to give up on that dream if it’s a once in a blue moon kind of thing.

@Texas Leaguer is it proper for you to say if you all will be carrying LMN for instance in the ACA line?

I thought ACA ended with K, which @Gussie said also, but Winnie found some Ls!

 

[whitewave]

There were actually a couple L ACAs up for sale recently. They were 0.8 something ct each IIRC. Is that a fluke? Cause I’ve been waiting and hoping for a larger L to pop up. I’m going to give up on that dream if it’s a once in a blue moon kind of thing.

HPD has an N (or did the last few times I checked and I get so tempted. But I can’t buy jewelry right now... first world problems)

 

[winnietucker]

@Texas Leaguer is it proper for you to say if you all will be carrying LMN for instance in the ACA line?

I thought ACA ended with K, which @Gussie said also, but Winnie found some Ls!

Not to thread jack but when I asked the sales rep I was told no plans to have any soon. But I didn’t realize that maybe that was a unicorn. Feeling some regret here now... anywhere here’s the screenshot for anyone who’s wondering if I made this up/ am misrememberingI sent it to my husband asking for his opinion a bit back so this is an older screenshot.


Also @whitewave I love that HPD does lower colored diamonds sometimes. But they’re filtering thing on their new website also only goes down to K. Wondering if they plan to stop?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

@Texas Leaguer is it proper for you to say if you all will be carrying LMN for instance in the ACA line?

I thought ACA ended with K, which @Gussie said also, but Winnie found some Ls!

Typically we stop at K and have no near term plans to expand deeper into the alphabet.

I am curious about the L's mentioned. Could be it was before my time at Whiteflash, it could be custom cut. Not sure. I would be interested to see more details about those.

 

[winnietucker]

Typically we stop at K and have no near term plans to expand deeper into the alphabet.

I am curious about the L's mentioned. Could be it was before my time at Whiteflash, it could be custom cut. Not sure. I would be interested to see more details about those.

This was maybe a month ago? I know another PSer made a thread about buying one. I should have bought them and stored them as side stones... dang.

 

[MrsBlue]

There were actually a couple L ACAs up for sale recently. They were 0.8 something ct each IIRC. Is that a fluke? Cause I’ve been waiting and hoping for a larger L to pop up. I’m going to give up on that dream if it’s a once in a blue moon kind of thing.

I jumped on a pair of WF K's when I saw them last year. I knew they would get snapped up. 6mm stones--one ACA and one ES. Keep checking or request an alert because great values do pop up!

@whitewave I'd love a solitaire pendant so HPD is definitely on my mind for that. As you said, even the smaller ones have incredible presence so a starter stone is definitely feasible if not quite in the cards just yet.

 

[winnietucker]

I jumped on a pair of WF K's when I saw them last year. I knew they would get snapped up. 6mm stones--one ACA and one ES. Keep checking or request an alert because great values do pop up!

@whitewave I'd love a solitaire pendant so HPD is definitely on my mind for that. As you said, even the smaller ones have incredible presence so a starter stone is definitely feasible if not quit in the cards just yet.

Ooh didn’t know you could request an alert. I’ll email the sales associate I’ve been chatting with.