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Michelle Duggar Pregnant with 18th Child

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ksinger

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Date: 5/28/2008 10:49:37 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I''ve been quiet too long...what is up with me??


Homeschooling. It''s a hot topic in California right now because a recent legal case has just ruled that homeschooling parents need to be certified with the same teaching credentials as public school teachers.


I don''t think it will be upheld on appeal...after appeal...

It''s a damned if you do, damned if you don''t proposition for parents who know that the public school system is in shambles. Heck, just ask Google as to how many Americans they recruit into their ranks. Their executive team had to start their own program in order to teach Americans so they could hope to bring some diversity, but most of them are foreign graduates and/or foreign students who made it into MIT.

I don''t know if ''socializing'' a child is a prerequisite to ensuring a healthy future. Perhaps in the future, the cost of travel will be so out of the reach of ordinary citizens that bringing community back will be the social model of the future. Besides, when 13-yr old girls are beating each other up and filming themselves for YouTube, I tend to think homeschooling has it''s social advantages.

I for one look back on my education...and I have to look pretty far....but it irks me that I was never taught how to balance a checkbook. I was never taught what criteria affects my credit rating. I was never taught a lot of the thing''s that I needed in order to live in this society. I had to learn them myself in the ''School of Hard Knocks'' and through my own curious nature and ambition. Talent can''t be taught. Identifying and fostering talent can be done. And sometimes, the best person for that job is MOM.
AAAAAKKKKK!!! I''m sorry Miracle I really, truly am, and I not trying to start a fight, but this kind of stuff just makes my blood boil. Here we are in a thread about homeschooling and someone again says I didn''t learn this, I didn''t learn that. Please please tell me why, when the entire society has been gulled by the credit idustry, from top to bottom, that highschool teachers should have been so informed as to be responsible for teaching you - assuming that you or any kid of that age was even interested enough to pay attention - and plenty weren''t - how to manage credit? Is this a simple topic? Is this the mandate of the public schools, or is handling money and budgeting something the parents should be doing?

I''ve really got to get the FI to do the math and I''m going to post it here. How many days a year they have, how many hours a day, how many days they lose to testing, assemblies, weather, interruptions, fights, and then give you how many points and topics must be covered in the remaining time. Some studies have shown that if all the stuff that the schools mandate right now were adequately taught, it would take 23 years to teach it. And you are worried about handling credit cards?

I was never taught about credit in school either, and if you''re as old as I am, a credit card was not even imagined as a possibility, so why should on earth should they have taught you that??

If you think that formal schooling is going to be able to teach you even most of the things you need to live in this society, you are one of those passing the buck, or at the least not thinking through what you just said. Some things are only learned through experience, and no amount of instruction or projects assigned by a teacher will change that. In the next breath you''re completely right though, the best person for that job is MOM. Or DAD.

My mother taught me how to balance a checkbook, and gave me good advice about handling credit. She didn''t wait for the schools to do it. They were busy teaching me core curriculum math, science, history, and English. Not morals, not credit scores, not religion, not multiculturalism, not alot of things. Everyone wants the schools to be all things. They''re not. They are there to try to give a basic grounding to your kids, not to raise them. There are many good teachers out there who bleed every day for YOUR kids, for what amounts to a pittance. They stress and fret that they can''t do better, but they are pulled SO many directions. I see what my man goes through every day, and I wish for his sake he''d just toss in the towel, but I''ve seen him teach and he''s genuinely good. I wish I''d had more teachers that good when I went through. It would be a loss for the kids I can tell you.

Bottom line, my FI has very little real problems with the kids. The parents are another matter entirely.

And what I get from all of this is that a major reason why parents homeschool is because other parents children are hooligans who are disruptive enough to ruin the teaching of anything at a reasonable level, and they don''t want them exposed to that. So IS it "the schools" or is it other people''s children?

The one thing that I did learn well from my own mother, talking to her back in the day when she though it probable that I''d have kids, is that if kids are bad, 99.9% of the time the finger points right back at YOU, the parent. It''s the parents it''s the parents it''s the parents....
 

rms

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I am a big advocate of education and I started college at 18 right after high school. But just to comment on the older kids...do we all have to start college at 18? Life isn''t over because someone is 20 and hasn''t started college yet.
 

iheartscience

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Date: 5/28/2008 11:24:45 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I certainly have no idea why he is not in college, nor do I think it is anybody''s business but his and his parents. As long as he isn''t out on the streets doing drugs and robbing people, I think I can allow him the freedom to choose what he wants to do and when. Our friends'' homeschooled daughter just graduated from college two or three weeks ago. That was her choice. I just don''t think everyone has to fit some preconceived mold that some of you are setting up.
Well I can''t speak for everyone else, but I don''t really have a preconceived mold of people. However, the profession of law definitely does have a preconceived mold-4 years of college, a law degree, etc. Many other professions do as well. That mold often includes a college education.

I''m pretty open-minded, actually, especially when it comes to education...I stopped going to college for a good 4 years and I wasn''t sure I''d ever go back. I did last fall at age 26 and I''ll be done this summer, but I''m continuing this fall in order to take a few more interesting classes and be a research assistant. So I definitely don''t think everyone has to go to high school, graduate, go straight to college, etc. But if these kids want to be lawyers, midwives, etc., they need a college education, and it seems like the way they are educated is going to make that difficult.
 

FrekeChild

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Date: 5/28/2008 10:21:50 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Date: 5/28/2008 3:08:38 PM
Author: FrekeChild

But all of this is totally off topic. The education system is screwed up on multiple levels. Enough said.

As for homeschooling with the Duggars, I just don't agree that having the older kids teaching the younger kids is a good idea for either's education. And I believe that they do need to be exposed to other races, cultures, religions and types of people in general, to negate the safe bubble that their parents have created for them. The world isn't a safe place where the only people you spend time with are your parents, siblings, fellow church members and tv producers. I worry what would happen to them if you took them out of the bubble for just a day or two, put them in normal American clothes, and dropped them into an inner city school-say in the Bronx or maybe Harlem. What happens when that bubble isn't there anymore?

And homeschooling- I don't really know enough about it, but I do know that my SIL will be homeschooling her and my brother's 3 children. So I'll get back to you on that when the oldest *graduates* in 13 years. (But that's an entirely different situation from the Duggars-my SIL has a Masters in English and until recently was head of the English department at her high school, and a published author, while my brother is a math teacher and basketball coach at a different school.)
Freke, I agree with a lot that you have said about the problems in public education and the difficulty in fixing it. But I will say this, every child is in the bubble that the parents create for them! I can safely say that few of us here have dropped our kids into an inner city school in the Bronx or Harlem! In fact, I am old enough to have two kids that have finished college at this point, and I haven't ever been dropped into the inner city of NY!!! So I live in a bubble too, I guess! I work with people who chose the same career as me and have similar education, and my friends are mostly people I work with or who go to my church (plus some great PS friends!). On the other side of that equation, not too many of those inner city kids have been dropped off at Kaleigh's daughter's private prep school either. That might be pretty uncomfortable for them. It's just the way life is. We tend to spend our time in our own communities with people who probably aren't nearly as diverse as you are inferring. While the Duggar's lifestyle probably isn't the choice of anyone here, I think those kids will be just fine in terms of adjustment and especially education. As I said before, the homeschoolers I consult with seem to be better educated than the public school kids.
I'm just talking about extreme culture shock DS. That was an example. If you dropped my princess @$$ into an inner city school in Harlem, yeah it would still be a bit of culture shock, but I've been to Harlem before, and I have an idea of what to expect. Not to mention I'm not a uber conservative Christian who has only ever been exposed to my family.

Yes we all live in a bubble. I don't think all situations are quite as extreme as theirs though. If you saw who I am on paper, and didn't talk to me in person, you really would think I was a spoiled little princess who grew up in private schools with all the advantages in the world. You wouldn't see me cussing up a storm working in restaurants. You wouldn't see me getting sexually harassed by an old boss. You wouldn't see my knife fetish and my heat and chemical burns. You wouldn't see me trying to convince an ex boyfriend to stop drink and doing drugs. You wouldn't see just how accommodating to other personalities I am, how I won't give anyone a second chance and how I wanted to go to public school-for the experience, not for the academics. I wanted OUT of my delicate little bubble.

And in lots of ways I got out.

I went into the restaurant industry-you want to know what that's like, read "Kitchen Confidential" or watch "Waiting..." I didn't go to Notre Dame law school like my dad wanted, and I dropped out of two colleges. I was essentially kicked out of my house because of territory issues with my mom and had to find my own way. I've helped a friend abandon her meth addiction (she's still clean 4 years later). I'll marry a man who is the first person is his extended family who has graduated college AT ALL and is getting his PhD in a social science-who is also half Hispanic and half white. I am surrounded by people who are interested in science and academics. In fact, the only thing I can think of that I have in common with most of the people I spend time with is my lack of religion. Essentially my parents are the only ones who do have any kind of religion. But I'm different, I have actively tried getting outside of my bubble. I've gone to NYC by myself, I've gotten lost by myself in Harlem, and I've embraced it all. I've gone against the grain and I've made the active choice to do things differently. I am a risk taker. And I love it.

Again, using myself as an example and not taking things personally.

I just want to see these kids exposed to SOMETHING ELSE besides what they are. Let them come visit me for a few days. Let them go to Harlem. Let them spend time with someone who is AT LEAST a little bit different from them. Variety is the spice of life, no? I want them to at least have the choice of taking risks. Right now, it is my perception that they don't get the choice to take any risks or get exposed to anything besides what they are. I just want them EXPOSED to someone who isn't like them. Thats all.
 

miraclesrule

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ksinger, I hear ya.

I am not advocating one way or the other. I just think that it''s crucial that schools examine their goal. Preparation for life isn''t just about reading, writing, and math. I have major issues with some teachers, but overall feel that they are a victim of the systemic problem, and not just bad teachers. Granted, there are some bad teachers protected by unions, but many good teachers are lost in a sea of bureaucracy.

I was very proud not to have contributed to the national debt. But when it came to buying my home, I learned that being 40, a single mom, with above average income and no debt, was not going to get me into a home. HUH????? Come again? What is wrong with this picture?

Thank gawd I had bad teeth and a regular payment schedule with my dentist, a good renter history, and paid my car insurance faithfully for eons. That was the bulk of my credit that allowed me to purchase my home. These are the realities of life. Like them or hate them. They are real, tangible, obstacles to the quality of life. Did it matter that I could recite nearly all of our past Presidents? No, it didn''t. Did it matter that I could actually do math without a calculator? No, it didn''t. Did it matter that I won my 6th grade spelling bee? No, it didn''t.

Life is a game...and education should prepare you for how to play that game skillfully. It shouldn''t be about passing tests so your employer obtains more government funding. And what about people who have parents who have died in an unfortunate accident when the child was young? Is it "too bad, so sad" for them?

I agree that our county has significantly screwed up priorities. It is a travesty that I make more money than those who help save a child in ICU, or a teacher who is responsible for molding the mind of our youth. I have lost sleep over it. I have felt guilty for it. Why do we pay a professional athlete a gazillion dollars to hit a ball, but our political leaders have to stoop to mediocrity, hypocrisy, and downright incompetence in order to make some money? I don''t have the answers...but I hope I have formulated the right questions.

I want to run for the Senate dangit!!!!!!
 

FrekeChild

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I just want to throw this out there. I wasn''t taught by anyone but myself how to balance a checkbook. I used my horrible but still adequate algebra, geometry, and trigonometry skills to figure it out for myself.

Basic knowledge on all subjects is necessary for LIFE.
 

miraclesrule

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Get out Freke. You used addition and subtraction. Admit it!!


Okay, maybe it had to do with being able to count the numbers of shoes you had in your closet, but I bet you never needed a calculator for that.


BTW, I had to google "mules". As in shoes...
 

FrekeChild

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LMAO Miracles!!!Seriously?! Mules?!

Ok, so perhaps I didn't actually use Algebra or Geometry or Trigonometry for balancing my checkbook, but I certainly had to use it for my Stats class. And I have used Algebra a lot more than you'd think. Not to mention all of it's applications in culinary math (there is a ton of math in baking- I kid you not-some commercial recipes are strictly in percentages and we have to use algebra to figure out how much of a certain ingredient actually is in the recipe).
 

miraclesrule

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I totally believe you on the cooking. I begged...seriously begged...the cooks at Benigans to give me the recipe for the "Confetti Rice" they served. One night the chef came out and gave me a sheet of paper and swore me to secrecy. I was elated!!

The next night I took it out and looked at the ingredients and went to the store to make sure I had them.

Then I whipped out the paper to make them. D''oH...the recipe was for 150 servings.


I totally gave up trying to do the math to break it down to four servings.
 

FrekeChild

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Lol. You crack me up. (I worked at Bennigans! I haven't really been back there since then though. And I waited tables-and I totally used math there-it actually helped me with my math skills a lot. I have a diagnosed math learning disability, so this made me happy. I could actually do some math in my head after working there.)

ETA-if you want me to, I'll convert it from 150 to 4ish for you!
 

miraclesrule

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Lol Freke, I was just thinking....

Dang, I bet Michelle Duggar, or one of her kids, could have broke it down for me. :::wicked evil grin::::
 

FrekeChild

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You are a little
.

I bet poor Jana (dinner) or Jill (lunch) would only have to break it down to a quarter of the original recipe.

And according to the Duggar website, "At 1:30p.m. the little ones go down for naps (4 & under). Momma & older children are around the table at 2:00p.m. for Wisdom Booklet group studies - science, history, law, medicine - part of our ATIA curriculm. We work on one subject until we complete the study. We also review & memorize scripture, hymns & operational definitions of character qualities. The children especially enjoy this because they make up motions to help with memorization.

At 4:00p.m., we break from group study to complete individual studies, otherwise this is free time. We have dinner at 5:00p.m. Jana (Age 18) prepares dinner & everyone helps cleanup. We do another "quick clean" of the house after dinner & then have free time. Some may still be finishing up music, seeing we have to take turns on the pianos with 11 students!"

And here is the website for ATIA. Which is fascinating...
 

miraclesrule

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You know what that reminds me of??

Those rather old...so maybe you never saw them....commercials for the Army.
They would show a plethora of all the things that they did...and then say something like "And...that''s all before 6:00 a.m."

And that is supposed to make me want to sign up??? Are you kidding me?

I hope that don''t teach that in Marketing 101.
 

FrekeChild

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I think I have seen them actually. I am not really a fan of structure, so that would drive me batty. Not to mention how strict it is.
 

miraclesrule

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Okay, so I am totally obsessed with the Monte Cristo at Bennigan''s right now. I can''t believe you worked there. I so want to share a Monte Cristo and fries with my daughter right now..

You are the
 

iheartscience

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Date: 5/29/2008 1:30:36 AM
Author: FrekeChild
You are a little
.


I bet poor Jana (dinner) or Jill (lunch) would only have to break it down to a quarter of the original recipe.


And according to the Duggar website, ''At 1:30p.m. the little ones go down for naps (4 & under). Momma & older children are around the table at 2:00p.m. for Wisdom Booklet group studies - science, history, law, medicine - part of our ATIA curriculm. We work on one subject until we complete the study. We also review & memorize scripture, hymns & operational definitions of character qualities. The children especially enjoy this because they make up motions to help with memorization.


At 4:00p.m., we break from group study to complete individual studies, otherwise this is free time. We have dinner at 5:00p.m. Jana (Age 18) prepares dinner & everyone helps cleanup. We do another ''quick clean'' of the house after dinner & then have free time. Some may still be finishing up music, seeing we have to take turns on the pianos with 11 students!''


And here is the website for ATIA. Which is fascinating...
Yikes...I don''t know if "fascinating" is the word I''d use for that curriculum...more like "frightening." Oh well, to each his or her own, I suppose...but I don''t think any of them will be particularly prepared for a secular university with a curriculum like that.
 

ksinger

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Date: 5/29/2008
Author: miraclesrule
ksinger, I hear ya.

I am not advocating one way or the other. I just think that it''s crucial that schools examine their goal. Preparation for life isn''t just about reading, writing, and math. I have major issues with some teachers, but overall feel that they are a victim of the systemic problem, and not just bad teachers. Granted, there are some bad teachers protected by unions, but many good teachers are lost in a sea of bureaucracy.

I was very proud not to have contributed to the national debt. But when it came to buying my home, I learned that being 40, a single mom, with above average income and no debt, was not going to get me into a home. HUH????? Come again? What is wrong with this picture?

Thank gawd I had bad teeth and a regular payment schedule with my dentist, a good renter history, and paid my car insurance faithfully for eons. That was the bulk of my credit that allowed me to purchase my home. These are the realities of life. Like them or hate them. They are real, tangible, obstacles to the quality of life. Did it matter that I could recite nearly all of our past Presidents? No, it didn''t. Did it matter that I could actually do math without a calculator? No, it didn''t. Did it matter that I won my 6th grade spelling bee? No, it didn''t.

Life is a game...and education should prepare you for how to play that game skillfully. It shouldn''t be about passing tests so your employer obtains more government funding. And what about people who have parents who have died in an unfortunate accident when the child was young? Is it ''too bad, so sad'' for them?

I agree that our county has significantly screwed up priorities. It is a travesty that I make more money than those who help save a child in ICU, or a teacher who is responsible for molding the mind of our youth. I have lost sleep over it. I have felt guilty for it. Why do we pay a professional athlete a gazillion dollars to hit a ball, but our political leaders have to stoop to mediocrity, hypocrisy, and downright incompetence in order to make some money? I don''t have the answers...but I hope I have formulated the right questions.

I want to run for the Senate dangit!!!!!!
As long as everyone realizes that the schools are usually very local, and respond to local pressures. I realize that isn''t true with No Child and its ilk, but do please note that the schools did not stipulate that their funding be tied to tests, politicians and probably influential parents with agendas helped that along. Right now, our state legislature is trying to tie all teacher raises to test scores. That and trying the perennial bit about firing them too if the test scores aren''t high enough. Wow. Let''s threaten the only people idealisitic enough - and let''s burn them out while we''re at it - to take a hideously low-paying job that requires the huge outlay for a college degree(s). They act like there''s this massive pool of people willing to put up with that. There isn''t. It doesn''t surprise me then, that people, schizophrenically will one moment speak admiringly of teachers and then in the next breath, say something like "Those who can, do, those who can''t, teach".

I guess my point is we get the school systems we create. The schools are not the saviors of society, but a reflection and a microcosm. Ask yourself a question, heck ask everyone you know: What is the product the public schools are supposed to be turning out? Good workers? Critical thinkers? College bounds? Moral people? Relgious people? What do we expect and is it realistic to expect it? How best to get it? Do we even know what it takes to teach some of these kids? And finally, are we truly willing to pay the price for it, or do we want to keep trying to get it on the cheap so we can complain about it? The answers you get will be mostly vague and as different as the people you ask.
So you think that you should learn credit management, while another person thinks we shouldn''t. One person thinks the schools should teach morals and no sex-ed, while the next person thinks the exact opposite. All these ideas are in tension all the time, and everyone always wants ALL this stuff to be done - whatever their pet social engineering project, or ideological slant is, on what amounts to no budget. Which just gets us back to the schools being the whipping boy for all of society''s ills....
 

FrekeChild

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Date: 5/29/2008 2:14:11 AM
Author: thing2of2
Date: 5/29/2008 1:30:36 AM
Author: FrekeChild
You are a little
.

I bet poor Jana (dinner) or Jill (lunch) would only have to break it down to a quarter of the original recipe.

And according to the Duggar website, ''At 1:30p.m. the little ones go down for naps (4 & under). Momma & older children are around the table at 2:00p.m. for Wisdom Booklet group studies - science, history, law, medicine - part of our ATIA curriculm. We work on one subject until we complete the study. We also review & memorize scripture, hymns & operational definitions of character qualities. The children especially enjoy this because they make up motions to help with memorization.

At 4:00p.m., we break from group study to complete individual studies, otherwise this is free time. We have dinner at 5:00p.m. Jana (Age 18) prepares dinner & everyone helps cleanup. We do another ''quick clean'' of the house after dinner & then have free time. Some may still be finishing up music, seeing we have to take turns on the pianos with 11 students!''

And here is the website for ATIA. Which is fascinating...
Yikes...I don''t know if ''fascinating'' is the word I''d use for that curriculum...more like ''frightening.'' Oh well, to each his or her own, I suppose...but I don''t think any of them will be particularly prepared for a secular university with a curriculum like that.
Oh I know Thing2...I wonder if the Big Bang Theory is covered at all...From the impression I got from that website, I highly doubt it. Or perhaps it''s just kind of glossed over as being a fairytale. Either way
.

Kind of makes me wonder what their sex ed (if they get any) is like.

And as for a university...I don''t think so either.


Miracles-The Monte Cristo=devil. Not me. But you''re right-that thing is pretty yummy. Even if it is a heart attack in a sandwich.

Karen-you are right.
 

miraclesrule

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Karen: This is one of my most favorite (and tabbed) quotes on my perpetual calender:

"Were we to apply our dollars intelligently to the people who take of children, we would spend millions of dollars less on the damage done to our society by wounded adults. Wounded children become wounded adults, and wounded adults can destroy a planet"

This applies to families, communities, and schools...IMO.
 

jas

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Date: 5/29/2008 10:17:30 AM
Author: FrekeChild

Oh I know Thing2...I wonder if the Big Bang Theory is covered at all...From the impression I got from that website, I highly doubt it. Or perhaps it''s just kind of glossed over as being a fairytale. Either way
.

Kind of makes me wonder what their sex ed (if they get any) is like.

And as for a university...I don''t think so either.


Miracles-The Monte Cristo=devil. Not me. But you''re right-that thing is pretty yummy. Even if it is a heart attack in a sandwich.

Karen-you are right.
And ya just know that question has to come up frequently, considering there are 18 of ''em.

Curious.
 

HollyS

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Date: 5/28/2008 10:08:17 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006


Date: 5/28/2008 6:38:14 PM
Author: HollyS



Date: 5/27/2008 8:06:10 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I keep telling myself that I won''t comment on this thread anymore, but I see one more thing I need to address. I am frankly astounded by the negative and uninformed comments about homeschooling! As a public school educator for 20+ years, I can tell you that public education just isn''t all that great!!! Truly, as a private educational specialist, I do consult with some homeschoolers and I have found their children to be articulate, well-mannered, and extremely well educated overall. The children are more comfortable talking with adults than any other children I know. Many of them have special classes on Fridays where experts in different areas work with groups of children on special projects. Some learn Latin and other languages. They recently had a public speaking event in our area where more than 500 children presented oral speeches. If you want to check, many years the national spelling and geography bees are won by homeschoolers. I have seen older ones go on to college with no problems whatsoever.

I dearly love the students I teach in public school. However, the regular classroom teachers deal with serious discipline problems on a daily basis, and plenty of instructional time is wasted. With a large percentage of American public school students reading below grade level, I would go so far as to say that homeschoolers overall probably beat out public school kids on achievement. My own child is gifted in art but has a learning disability (but above average in intelligence), and I am always considering the option of educating her at home so she can get an education suited for HER needs as opposed to the cookie-cutter education offered by the public schools. (She goes to a public charter school at the moment which is a pretty good school.)

There are good and bad public school teachers and there are good and bad homeschool teachers. I really hate to hear the negative stereotypes about homeschooling.
Home schooling, done well, is fine. No problem. A mother with 18 children, two or more babies, a few toddlers, and a heck of-a-lot of school age kids of different ages and grade levels, will not have the time to do a bang-up job of home schooling. And I believe I read somewhere that the older children are basically ''teaching'' the younger children. Completely unwise, and certainly not a quality education.
Holly, let me ask you how many people do you personally know who homeschool? Do you know much about various homeschool curriculums? You are extremely judgemental about a family''s education that you really have no first hand knowlege about.

Considering what I see daily in public education, it would not suprise me if the Duggar children are better educated than the average child in public school.
I know many. This is the Bible Belt here in Texas. There is a healthy distrust of public education these days, and what they are and aren''t teaching the kids. More so in conservative states, I''m sure. One young lady I know, who spent all of her grade school and middle school years being home schooled, is graduatinig from a local high school at the top of her class. So, no, I don''t have an axe to grind with home schooling. I have an axe to grind with Michelle Duggar.

And I''m quite familiar with the teaching profession. I come from a long line of teachers on both sides of the family; and went to college for an education degree myself. I do have some idea of what I''m talking about; but this whole discussion is not about education. It''s about the Duggars, and their choices; and they boil down to this: it''s about wanting what you want, and not letting anything deter you. "Damn the torpedoes; full speed ahead!" Sometimes that''s fine. Sometimes it isn''t.

In this instance . . . IMO . . . it is not okay. And my opinion has as much validity as yours.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Date: 5/29/2008 1:46:28 PM
Author: HollyS


I know many. This is the Bible Belt here in Texas. There is a healthy distrust of public education these days, and what they are and aren''t teaching the kids. More so in conservative states, I''m sure. One young lady I know, who spent all of her grade school and middle school years being home schooled, is graduatinig from a local high school at the top of her class. So, no, I don''t have an axe to grind with home schooling. I have an axe to grind with Michelle Duggar.

And I''m quite familiar with the teaching profession. I come from a long line of teachers on both sides of the family; and went to college for an education degree myself. I do have some idea of what I''m talking about; but this whole discussion is not about education. It''s about the Duggars, and their choices; and they boil down to this: it''s about wanting what you want, and not letting anything deter you. ''Damn the torpedoes; full speed ahead!'' Sometimes that''s fine. Sometimes it isn''t.

In this instance . . . IMO . . . it is not okay. And my opinion has as much validity as yours.
Okay, just wanted clarification that you are opposing this particular family versus homeschooling in general. I guess I am just very tolerant of all lifestyle choices that involve self-sufficiency and raising law abiding citizens. Since I think they fall into that category, I won''t judge them.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Thanks Freke, for your reply above. I understand the sentiment that some might think it best for children to be exposed to more. However, we had some very bad experiences with our son being exposed to too much in a public high school. So I think perspectives differ due to all of our personal experiences being so different.

What is really funny to me is why are people picking on the Duggar''s when we have a cult in Texas with men having multiple wives and "marrying" teenagers who then have babies???
To me, this would be soooooo much more valid to be alarmed about.

But anyway, I think I''ve said about everything I can on this topic. I just believe in freedom of choices as long as you are self-sufficient and law abiding. I certainly have my personal preferences on lifestyle and education issues, but I try not to go around condemning people who make different choices than I have made. (and that''s a general statement, not intended for Freke)
 

FrekeChild

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Date: 5/29/2008 4:15:10 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Thanks Freke, for your reply above. I understand the sentiment that some might think it best for children to be exposed to more. However, we had some very bad experiences with our son being exposed to too much in a public high school. So I think perspectives differ due to all of our personal experiences being so different.

What is really funny to me is why are people picking on the Duggar''s when we have a cult in Texas with men having multiple wives and ''marrying'' teenagers who then have babies???
To me, this would be soooooo much more valid to be alarmed about.

But anyway, I think I''ve said about everything I can on this topic. I just believe in freedom of choices as long as you are self-sufficient and law abiding. I certainly have my personal preferences on lifestyle and education issues, but I try not to go around condemning people who make different choices than I have made. (and that''s a general statement, not intended for Freke)
No worries DS.

And I don''t think anyone would want me to comment on the FLDS mess in Texas right now.
 

pennquaker09

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As a teacher, I can understand why people have issues with their children''s education. Parent choose to homeschool for different reasons and as a parent, I respect that. However, I really find the curriculum that the Duggar''s use suspect. To be honest, it''s centered too much around religion.

And while I recognize that many parents choose to homeschool for religious reasons, I think there comes a point when kids need exposure to different ways of thinking and what not. I would imagine that they''re growing up to think in a narrow straight line, which in the real world, is unrealistic.
 

somethingshiny

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I agree that the Duggars home schooling seems to be based around religion, however, if it''s suspect BECAUSE it''s based on religion, then also suspect is most private and parochial schools.

Having said that, DH''s cousin is graduating from high school tomorrow. He has attended a Christian Academy, and honestly, he is THE most well-read, well-rounded, non-judgemental, open-minded person I have ever known.

And, thinking in a narrow straight line...while I understand Penn''s point, I have to disagree. If you cannot keep focused on the narrow straight line, how are you supposed to walk it??
 

FrekeChild

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<---went to Catholic school for 8 years, three different ones. I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference between our curriculum and the curriculum those kids are going though. Second paragraph down is absolutely NOT anything like what we went through. All of our subjects were about the subjects at hand, and ANY talk of religion was left exclusively for religion classes. One of those religion classes was actually a class called "Man and Woman" and it was sex ed. Yes, sex ed in Catholic high school. And it was not Catholic sex ed. I learned just as much in that class as I did in my college class (public, mind you) "Psychology of Human Sexuality". None of it was based on the Catholic ideal of no premarital sex, no birth control and whatever else. They wanted us to be prepared for real world, not a safe happy bubble.

As for the ATI curriculum-they''re talking about medicine (um, why would they talk about that in the first place?), law (don''t get this one either), linguistics, science, and history. I''m relatively certain from the description of their teaching philosophy in general that their science class does not cover half of what a public, private or parochial school covers. I''m going to go ahead and quote something from the ATI website here: "Each subject is understood in balance by its relationship to the hub of Scripture." According to Christian Scripture, there is no such thing as evolution or the big bang theory, so I feel comfortable in saying that those are probably glossed over IF they are even covered at all.

 

diamondseeker2006

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Penn, I''ll have to disagree with you, too. We have freedom of religion in this country and parents have every right to raise their children in their religion. When children become adults, they have the choice of embracing that religion or rejecting it, plain and simple. Please give people credit for being able to make that choice once they are on their own. I am sure you will teach your children certain principles that are deeply important to you. Any parent who deeply loves their children will want to pass along the principles by which they live. I fully support your right to do that just as I support the Duggar''s rights. I would think you would be very sensitive to discrimination against people for religion or lifestyle choices.
 

iheartscience

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Date: 5/30/2008 2:08:49 PM
Author: FrekeChild
<---went to Catholic school for 8 years, three different ones. I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference between our curriculum and the curriculum those kids are going though. Second paragraph down is absolutely NOT anything like what we went through. All of our subjects were about the subjects at hand, and ANY talk of religion was left exclusively for religion classes. One of those religion classes was actually a class called ''Man and Woman'' and it was sex ed. Yes, sex ed in Catholic high school. And it was not Catholic sex ed. I learned just as much in that class as I did in my college class (public, mind you) ''Psychology of Human Sexuality''. None of it was based on the Catholic ideal of no premarital sex, no birth control and whatever else. They wanted us to be prepared for real world, not a safe happy bubble.


As for the ATI curriculum-they''re talking about medicine (um, why would they talk about that in the first place?), law (don''t get this one either), linguistics, science, and history. I''m relatively certain from the description of their teaching philosophy in general that their science class does not cover half of what a public, private or parochial school covers. I''m going to go ahead and quote something from the ATI website here: ''Each subject is understood in balance by its relationship to the hub of Scripture.'' According to Christian Scripture, there is no such thing as evolution or the big bang theory, so I feel comfortable in saying that those are probably glossed over IF they are even covered at all.


I totally agree with you, Freke. The "education" the Duggar kids are getting seems pretty out of touch with the real world, and really just strange. Like you said, most Christian and Catholic schools teach secular academic subjects as well as religion. I actually know several Jewish kids who have gone to private Catholic and Christian schools because of the more challenging academic curriculum. Their parents obviously didn''t send them there to get an education that is centered around Christianity and the Bible.
 

FrekeChild

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Date: 5/30/2008 9:04:56 PM
Author: thing2of2
Date: 5/30/2008 2:08:49 PM
Author: FrekeChild
<---went to Catholic school for 8 years, three different ones. I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference between our curriculum and the curriculum those kids are going though. Second paragraph down is absolutely NOT anything like what we went through. All of our subjects were about the subjects at hand, and ANY talk of religion was left exclusively for religion classes. One of those religion classes was actually a class called 'Man and Woman' and it was sex ed. Yes, sex ed in Catholic high school. And it was not Catholic sex ed. I learned just as much in that class as I did in my college class (public, mind you) 'Psychology of Human Sexuality'. None of it was based on the Catholic ideal of no premarital sex, no birth control and whatever else. They wanted us to be prepared for real world, not a safe happy bubble.

As for the ATI curriculum-they're talking about medicine (um, why would they talk about that in the first place?), law (don't get this one either), linguistics, science, and history. I'm relatively certain from the description of their teaching philosophy in general that their science class does not cover half of what a public, private or parochial school covers. I'm going to go ahead and quote something from the ATI website here: 'Each subject is understood in balance by its relationship to the hub of Scripture.' According to Christian Scripture, there is no such thing as evolution or the big bang theory, so I feel comfortable in saying that those are probably glossed over IF they are even covered at all.

I totally agree with you, Freke. The 'education' the Duggar kids are getting seems pretty out of touch with the real world, and really just strange. Like you said, most Christian and Catholic schools teach secular academic subjects as well as religion. I actually know several Jewish kids who have gone to private Catholic and Christian schools because of the more challenging academic curriculum. Their parents obviously didn't send them there to get an education that is centered around Christianity and the Bible.
I think that one of the reasons they don't mention religion in any of the the other subjects at my school is because there were students of other religions (even Islamic) at our school. I'm sure you're right Thing2-our school was considered to be very good, probably top three in academics in our city (above all public schools). So ditto!

BTW, I went to the only Catholic HS in town, the other two cost over $10k in tuition each year and one of them has a graduating class of less than 100 each year. And except for transfer students, the students at that school are together from sixth grade to twelfth...The other one had students driving brand new Mercedes and the teachers driving beat up old cars.
 
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