Live Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing

[redwood66]

It's amazing how differently people view things. I was not, other than exerpts able to watch the testimony, too emotional. I have not been raped, but I have worked with people who have (I work at the VA). Seeing the scene with flake and the two women. Yes they were very emotional .But they were pleading, pleading for their case, to be heard, and for flake to listen to his conscience. It was powerful. I had tears, and it is hard for me to imagine someone else seeing the same thing, and not moved by their plight, or even that they were rude and shut up. The senator, in his capacity on voting on a supreme Court nominee, affects and represents all us citizens, and it's job to listen.

I can appreciate this and your reaction.

 

[Alexiszoe]

It's amazing how differently people view things. I was not, other than exerpts able to watch the testimony, too emotional. I have not been raped, but I have worked with people who have (I work at the VA). Seeing the scene with flake and the two women. Yes they were very emotional .But they were pleading, pleading for their case, to be heard, and for flake to listen to his conscience. It was powerful. I had tears, and it is hard for me to imagine someone else seeing the same thing, and not moved by their plight, or even that they were rude and shut up. The senator, in his capacity on voting on a supreme Court nominee, affects and represents all us citizens, and it's job to listen.

@partgypsy, your sense of compassion for others is amazing. It's so easy to see this along partisan lines and forget - that these women are suffering, they are in pain, and they want the system to change - so that other women, our daughters and grand daughters would never face what they had to go through.

 

[partgypsy]

I had a nice low key day ending with making chocolate chip muffins and watching "nailed it" with my youngest daughter; the worse thing she is dealing with is a small case of poison ivy. Not everyone is as blessed.

 

[AGBF]

Actually, she gave me a choice between being who I am or a hate-filled, man-hating frenzied feminist. I’m pretty happy with my choice; thanks.

Hate-filled? Man-hating? (Of course I'm a feminist, stupid!)

Your depiction of me would be funny if you were not so unbelievably fatuous. All of my daughter's boyfriends have called me "mom". My father's aide when he was dying (who is a homosexual male in his 50's) called me, and still calls me because he comes to visit, "mother". A former client who ceased seeing me as his psychotherapist when I moved to Virginia but stayed in touch calls me "Mom" as a reference to how he came to equate me with his mother in therapy. Everyone else calls me "Aunt AGBF", because I was so nurturing to my friends' children and now am to their grandchildren. And almost all of them are (or were) boys (who, in the cases of the my friends' sons) grew into men. I am not like you, Jenn. I am gentle and kind. I treat children with respect. I listen to them and play with them. I remember their birthdays; bring them cakes and buy them gifts that they actually like for the occasion; and know how to speak to them. When they grow up they remain fond of me and bring their kids into my life. My life is chock full of men whom I nurture and who love me. I forgot. My great-nephew says I'm his mother in this country. His actual mother is in Israel. My cleaning woman (I guess she doesn't count because she is female, but her sons call me "Aunt") says she wishes I were her mother.

And then there is Dancing Fire. He calls me "Mother Teresa".

AGBF

 

[redwood66]

Hate-filled? Man-hating? (Of course I'm a feminist, stupid!)

Your depiction of me would be funny if you were not so unbelievably fatuous. All of my daughter's boyfriends have called me "mom". My father's aide when he was dying (who is a homosexual male in his 50's) called me, and still calls me because he comes to visit, "mother". A former client who ceased seeing me as his psychotherapist when I moved to Virginia but stayed in touch calls me "Mom" as a reference to how he came to equate me with his mother in therapy. Everyone else calls me "Aunt AGBF", because I was so nurturing to my friends' children and now am to their grandchildren. And almost all of them are (or were) boys (who, in the cases of the my friends' sons) grew into men. I am not like you, Jenn. I am gentle and kind. I treat children with respect. I listen to them and play with them. I remember their birthdays; bring them cakes and buy them gifts that they actually like for the occasion; and know how to speak to them. When they grow up they remain fond of me and bring their kids into my life. My life is chock full of men whom I nurture and who love me. I forgot. My great-nephew says I'm his mother in this country. His actual mother is in Israel. My cleaning woman (I guess she doesn't count because she is female, but her sons call me "Aunt") says she wishes I were her mother.

And then there is Dancing Fire. He calls me "Mother Teresa".

AGBF

I don't think she called you those things Deb. Though the wicked stepmother line was kinda cruel for you.

 

[Dancing Fire]

And then there is Dancing Fire. He calls me "Mother Teresa".

AGBF

 

[AGBF]

I don't think she called you those things Deb.

Of course she did.

 

[redwood66]

Of course she did.

ok.

 

[Calliecake]

It's amazing how differently people view things. I was not, other than exerpts able to watch the testimony, too emotional. I have not been raped, but I have worked with people who have (I work at the VA). Seeing the scene with flake and the two women. Yes they were very emotional .But they were pleading, pleading for their case, to be heard, and for flake to listen to his conscience. It was powerful. I had tears, and it is hard for me to imagine someone else seeing the same thing, and not moved by their plight, or even that they were rude and shut up. The senator, in his capacity on voting on a supreme Court nominee, affects and represents all us citizens, and it's job to listen.

I fail to see how any human being could have heard these two women and not feel their pain.

 

[Calliecake]

Of course she did.

​

Deb, I think she was referring to me as the hate filled man hating frenzied feminist. I have no idea why other than I felt compassion for the two women who spoke to Jeff Flake when he was in the elevator. The women were extremely emotional and obviously in a lot of pain.

@Dancing Fire, If you read my posts you would know I’m not a far left leaning liberal.

 

[JPie]

Calliecake-I am the center of everything, not you. Don't try to get into the limelight. Look at Jenn's entire posting (#353 in this thread).

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by the_mother_thing » Yesterday at 10:16 PM
↑
OK. I'll bite. I see a big mirror. It's a clue. "Mirror, mirror, on the wall..." I've got it! Snow White's wicked stepmother made you like this!

Technically, she did not call you a “hate-filled, man-hating frenzied feminist”; it was implied. Considering that it’s coming from someone who wants to punch assault victims in the face (and has no sense of irony), I wouldn’t sweat it.

 

[Calliecake]

Hey Deb, I’m more than happy to step back and get the hell out of the limelight LOL!!! I hope you are having a great night @AGBF

 

[Calliecake]

Technically, she did not call you a “hate-filled, man-hating frenzied feminist”; it was implied. Considering that it’s coming from someone who wants to punch assault victims in the face (and has no sense of irony), I wouldn’t sweat it.

Thank you @JPie

 

[monarch64]

I'd take it as a compliment.

 

[lovedogs]

Ah, the favorite straw man argument of the right. If a woman demands equitable treatment, she must be an evil femnazi ready to chop off a man’s balls because she demands special treatment, aka equal pay for equal work.

 

[Ellen]

As you're so fond of saying, we can't know that. She said she went to his office. There's no indication he was there or that she spoke to someone.

This is what I was going to say. If he had indeed "heard" her when she was at his office previously, she wouldn't have said what she did, at least like she said it. I think it's fairly clear she had not seen him personally. Speaking to his assistant is not the same as him hearing her message. And clearly, she wanted to be heard by him, and I see nothing wrong with what she did. It put him much more in touch with her feelings, and those of all (well, almost all) women. As someone else said on here, and I whole heartedly agree, I don't think men have a clue about what a woman who has been violated really goes through, especially when they are not believed. And it was telling that he didn't even want to look her in the eye. Why? Because he was uncomfortable. Why? Because he was having to hear something he didn't want to. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't have been heard. It should have, and it was. Good.

Sometimes, when things are really important, we have to be persistent.

per·sist·ence
pərˈsistəns/
noun

1. firm or obstinate continuance in a course of action in spite of difficulty or opposition.
   "companies must have patience and persistence, but the rewards are there"
   • the continued or prolonged existence of something.
     "the persistence of huge environmental problems"

 

[AGBF]

SNL does The Kavanaugh Hearings. That's Matt Damon as Judge Kavanaugh!

SNL...

 

[Ellen]

Thanks Deb.

 

[House Cat]

I don't approve of those ambush tactics at all. Rosa Parks sat in a bus seat and the suffragettes marched. They did not get in people's faces screaming. It's the persistent protest that gets taken seriously, not the raving lunatics screaming.

Are you referring to the EMOTIONAL REPONSE of a SEXUAL ASSAULT VICTIM as “ambush tactics?”

 

[House Cat]

This will be unpopular, but sexual assault victims aren't more special than any other kind of violent crime victim.

No..they aren’t more special but they are different.

Edit to add: as someone who’s had therapy on the subject for over 10 years now..the fact that sexual assault victims are different has been proven scientifically. We have a whole different set of behaviors and symptoms.

How much do you really know about this subject Red?

 

[the_mother_thing]

Of course she did.

No, I didn’t. I described the exact type of person I never want to be.

If you liken yourself to that type of person, that is your issue.

 

[Ella]

Everyone, last warning. Do not user people’s real names on the forum. Even if it was in a former username. Even if you know their name from offline. Time outs will be given again if this continues.

 

[partgypsy]

I thought this was an interesting portrait: Conscience vs toeing the party line

http://time.com/5410740/jeff-flake-kavanaugh-vote-photo/

 

[Tekate]

Hmmm I believe in progressive ideas, I don't now that much about democrat per se, the only real difference between democrats and republicans is one wants to spend a bit more on the war machine and less on public programs and democrats are vice versa, although republicans were not as bad as they are now years ago, nor were democrats necessarily as far left either. There are way bigger differences between liberals and conservatives which are at the far end of each party. I have some republican views, I believe in the death penalty. I believe in a balanced budget, but I am not rigid.. I didn't really know about Kavanaugh until he went bonkers and started his Clinton rant and far left money, that showed me he unhinges under pressure, the Bar Association worried about his fair and balanced approach and voiced it. Huge red flag for me, why we didn't know this before we got to this point I dunno. Graham was horrendous and I don't think he was being horrendous to Feinstein if I said that I didn't think it ?? I think Graham was horrendous to all democrats, without one word about Judge Garland, why don't republicans ever mention Garland????? And I agree with you nothing is totally clear about what went down.

And I think you and others are being partisan as well. It works both ways. You believe the Dem way is the only way and that he is guilty. So here we are. I hope Feinstein did not do it, and Graham said yesterday he did not think she did. So your idea that he is partisan in that matter toward her is out the window. Somebody leaked the information and it wasn't the Rs. Nothing is CLEAR about how this was handled.

11 Republican men so it couldn't possibly be fair. I would be worried taking a concern to Dems for fear they would use me as a cudgel against their opponents for all the world to see. There is no point in even talking about this any longer.

 

[Tekate]

http://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/code-conduct-united-states-judges

He's a fail. He has ethical standards inside and outside the court as does all people. He should be disbarred. Why would democrats have an open mind about him? Gosh MOT, when have the republicans had an open mind? Bill Clinton? NOPE. Hillary Clinton? HELL NO. Barack Obama? HELL NO NO. Just for starters. You and I can go round robin.. but it does not behoove the democrats to be easy on this 'judge'.. What do you think of the disrespect of McConnell's treatment of a really good man, Merrick Garland? if you have answered that just point me back to that post. Accused parties do have rights, that is what the Black Lives Matter move is all about in actuality, the right to be treated the same way as whites.

I would agree, and I don’t blame him one bit for being angry. Even IF he is guilty, even accused parties have rights, and his have been squashed under the toes of Dems in their piss-poor handling of this entire debacle.

And those who pick apart his emotion now and say he doesn’t deserve to be on the bench because of it never supported him much less had an open mind about him in the first place, even when he was calm, cool & collected ... ya’ll aren’t fooling anyone but yourselves about that.

 

[partgypsy]

He doesn't fulfill the conduct of a member of the bar
Canon 4. Complete separation of a judge from extrajudicial activities is neither possible nor wise; a judge should not become isolated from the society in which the judge lives. As a judicial officer and a person specially learned in the law, a judge is in a unique position to contribute to the law, the legal system, and the administration of justice, including revising substantive and procedural law and improving criminal and juvenile justice. To the extent that the judge’s time permits and impartiality is not compromised, the judge is encouraged to do so, either independently or through a bar association, judicial conference, or other organization dedicated to the law. Subject to the same limitations, judges may also engage in a wide range of non-law-related activities.

Canon 5: A Judge Should Refrain from Political Activity

(A) General Prohibitions. A judge should not:

(1) act as a leader or hold any office in a political organization;

(2) make speeches for a political organization or candidate, or publicly endorse or oppose a candidate for public office; or

(3) solicit funds for, pay an assessment to, or make a contribution to a political organization or candidate, or attend or purchase a ticket for a dinner or other event sponsored by a political organization or candidate.

(B) Resignation upon Candidacy. A judge should resign the judicial office if the judge becomes a candidate in a primary or general election for any office.

(C) Other Political Activity. A judge should not engage in any other political activity. This provision does not prevent a judge from engaging in activities described in Canon 4.

 

[redwood66]

http://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/code-conduct-united-states-judges

He's a fail. He has ethical standards inside and outside the court as does all people. He should be disbarred. Why would democrats have an open mind about him? Gosh MOT, when have the republicans had an open mind? Bill Clinton? NOPE. Hillary Clinton? HELL NO. Barack Obama? HELL NO NO. Just for starters. You and I can go round robin.. but it does not behoove the democrats to be easy on this 'judge'.. What do you think of the disrespect of McConnell's treatment of a really good man, Merrick Garland? if you have answered that just point me back to that post. Accused parties do have rights, that is what the Black Lives Matter move is all about in actuality, the right to be treated the same way as whites.

Are you actually saying that not holding hearings on Merrick Garland and this Kavanaugh circus are equal treatment of the judges? Not one Republican ever uttered a disparaging remark about Garland. This circus is full on crazy.

 

[JPie]

Not one Republican ever uttered a disparaging remark about Garland.

They were too busy giving him the silent treatment.

 

[redwood66]

They were too busy giving him the silent treatment.

I am sure Kavanaugh and Ford wish they had gotten that as well. Or at least confidentiality.

But "at all costs" so it's justifiable in the minds of the crazies.

 

[Calliecake]

This is what I was going to say. If he had indeed "heard" her when she was at his office previously, she wouldn't have said what she did, at least like she said it. I think it's fairly clear she had not seen him personally. Speaking to his assistant is not the same as him hearing her message. And clearly, she wanted to be heard by him, and I see nothing wrong with what she did. It put him much more in touch with her feelings, and those of all (well, almost all) women. As someone else said on here, and I whole heartedly agree, I don't think men have a clue about what a woman who has been violated really goes through, especially when they are not believed. And it was telling that he didn't even want to look her in the eye. Why? Because he was uncomfortable. Why? Because he was having to hear something he didn't want to. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't have been heard. It should have, and it was. Good.

Sometimes, when things are really important, we have to be persistent.

per·sist·ence
pərˈsistəns/
noun

1. firm or obstinate continuance in a course of action in spite of difficulty or opposition.
   "companies must have patience and persistence, but the rewards are there"
   • the continued or prolonged existence of something.
     "the persistence of huge environmental problems"

All of THIS!

All politics aside. Nothing will change in our country until men and some women understand what a sexual assault victim goes thru. Anyone who thinks this type of crime is the same as others is simply not educated on the subject. People are multifaceted. Just because a woman goes about her life and is happy in her life doesn’t mean this hasn’t affected her life deeply. The same is true for men who have been sexually assaulted.