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Just realized I was sold a clarity enhanced diamond...

JenRN

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
19
This is why a lawyer may be needed.
Case law says anything presented after the money was paid or buried in small print was not disclosure.
It went to the appeals court level and was upheld.
The case off the top of my head was either blockbuster or gamestop and involved used games.
Nope neither the receipt or appraisal I have stated anything about this! I’ve read it 1000 times to make sure!
 

JenRN

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
19
Hey @JenRN, can you post a copy of your appraisal? Be sure to black out any confidential information (name, address, etc).

My 2 cents is simply stating CE on a cert would not alleviate the seller of the responsibility to properly make the buyer aware they are buying a clarity enhanced stone. I haven't read the entire article that was posted but it may detail out methodologies of how to properly inform buyers so they can avoid litigation.
Yes! I will post in just a bit! Thank you!
 

rockysalamander

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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May 20, 2016
Messages
4,833
Exactly and probably why she got so upset I would have someone else look at it
The good news for you is that fact that she did or did not know it was CE is irrelevant under the FTC rules. The rules specifically do not provide any exemption or liability for "I didn't know." {this was asked for by many in the jewelry industry at the time and the FTC clearly and emphatically said "no"). This receipt helps you support your claim that they did not provide the required "point of sale" disclosure. I would bring a copy of that document to share with them and point out that it does not meet the required disclosure requirements. Nowhere does is say "clarity enhanced", "fracture filled", or even the too vague CE.

Edited to add. Should they say, we were duped by our own vendor. That is their issue to resolve. The only issue they need to resolve with you is the failure to disclose the treatment. Their issues with the vendor are separate from their failure to comply with the law with you. You want a full cash refund. They can have the diamond back to use as evidence against their vendor. Their bad decision to buy a CE diamond (assuming they did so in ignorance) is not your liability to bear.

Is the stone laser-ID's on the girdle? That will help if the number on the girdle matches any certification they provided.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,654
Is there a page of terms and conditions type of information on that 'appraisal'? Perhaps fine print on the back or on additional pages. Perchance did they issue any other paperwork, like a receipt?
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,654
This has become a long thread and it's a bit disjointed but may I ask a few questions?:

1) What was the date of the transaction?
2) Are you unhappy with the purchase? Why? Do you even want a refund, or are you looking for something else, like a discount or a different stone?
2) Have you politely asked for whatever it is that you're seeking? What did they tell you?
3) Have you shown them the second appraisal and voiced your concerns? What did they have to say about it?
4) Do they dispute that the stone they sold was treated? Do they agree that this is an important issue?
5) Do they have written terms and conditions somewhere? It may be on the receipt, their website, on signs or brochures in the store, or a combination of these.
6) Was there any paperwork other than what you scanned above?
 

JenRN

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
19
This has become a long thread and it's a bit disjointed but may I ask a few questions?:

1) What was the date of the transaction?
2) Are you unhappy with the purchase? Why? Do you even want a refund, or are you looking for something else, like a discount or a different stone?
2) Have you politely asked for whatever it is that you're seeking? What did they tell you?
3) Have you shown them the second appraisal and voiced your concerns? What did they have to say about it?
4) Do they dispute that the stone they sold was treated? Do they agree that this is an important issue?
5) Do they have written terms and conditions somewhere? It may be on the receipt, their website, on signs or brochures in the store, or a combination of these.
6) Was there any paperwork other than what you scanned above?
Hi! Here are some answers:
1) 11/6/2018
2) this all started because the jeweler has a lifetime upgrade policy and I feel like I was talked into a RB. No biggie, I reached out and told the sales lady I wanted to get a fancy shape diamond and am willing to spend more money out of pocket. She was giving me a lot of push back so I went to a few jewelers to se if I could trade in and find out what I wanted. All 3 of them said they would never buy the diamond let alone sell it. The last jeweler said he believes it was CE and showed me the blue/purple fracture filled line he saw under the microscope. I think reached out to a master gemologist about getting the stone looked up to confirm. At this point, I want a refund because I don’t trust them at all. No matter what the come back with, I just don’t want to do business with them. And further more, prior to me knowing this was CE, I asked for a different t diamond as I wasn’t happy with this one and he wanted a month to look around, which I don’t understand.
3) I have not presented this evidence to them as I am waiting for the certified document from the GIA master gemologist which I will get tomorrow. I did reach out to the owner prior to knowing this was CE about my disappointment about the diamond and the sales lady behavior. He assured me they stand by their product and asked that I give them a month to find a stone I am looking for (emerald, oval or elongated radiant for same price I paid).
4) I will find out tomorrow when I speak with them. I can’t imagine them pushing back as they have been in business for 20 years and other jewelers who know of them assure me they will do the right thing but why sell this in the first place? Did they not look at the diamond? If they do push back then I will report them, seek legal action, etc.
5) there’s no signs in the store and the receipt says nothing (I have it at home and can upload later). Website also says nothing that I can find.
6) yes the receipt but I have to get that out of our files. That also says nothing as I know I would have certainly asked what CE meant.
They either had no idea what they were selling or they knowingly sold me a CE diamond because at the time, I didn’t know better and of course, never saw it under the microscope. Again, totally my mistake for trusting them, but friends of mine have done business with them for a while with no complaints but now they are questioning the items they have. I got red flags when the sales lady got very defensive and angry when I told her I was having someone else look at the diamond. Hope this info helps!
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,654
Another option is that the appraiser is wrong. That's why I asked if they deny the CE. Just because an appraiser says it's treated doesn't mean it is, but if that's the heart of the argument you will have a different path than if this is undisputed.
 

elizat

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
985
For what it is worth, I am a lawyer and practice in Florida. If you want to get a refund with your method of payment, I'd simply insist on it and explain that a clarity enhanced diamond was not what you agreed to buy and they never disclosed it. I would mention that what they have done, if they refuse to refund you, is a violation of Florida's deceptive and unfair trade practices act.

I know the idea of a lawyer has been mentioned a few times, but I would try to just very firmly demand a refund and also do it in writing, preferably with a signed receipt and state the reasons why (i.e. certified mail). A lawyer is either going to cost you a retainer that is likely close to a 5k retainer or if they do it on contingency, it will come out of your refund.

How did you pay? Can you dispute with your bank?
 

JenRN

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
19
For what it is worth, I am a lawyer and practice in Florida. If you want to get a refund with your method of payment, I'd simply insist on it and explain that a clarity enhanced diamond was not what you agreed to buy and they never disclosed it. I would mention that what they have done, if they refuse to refund you, is a violation of Florida's deceptive and unfair trade practices act.

I know the idea of a lawyer has been mentioned a few times, but I would try to just very firmly demand a refund and also do it in writing, preferably with a signed receipt and state the reasons why (i.e. certified mail). A lawyer is either going to cost you a retainer that is likely close to a 5k retainer or if they do it on contingency, it will come out of your refund.

How did you pay? Can you dispute with your bank?
Thank you so much for this! I paid with my debit card so I don’t think I can dispute anything. I will go in tomorrow with all of my documentation and hope for the best. I agree, a lawyer is not the way I want to go so I do want to resolve it before it gets to that point. I appreciate all of your help!
 

JenRN

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
19
I'm wishing you the best of good luck and karma tomorrow. It makes me sad to see someone end up in the position!
They seem highly rated so I am sending dust for a satisfactory resolution.
And I’m hoping that they want to keep the ratings that way and so they do the right thing. Thank you again!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,602
Best of luck. Please let us know how it goes.

Also, you may check with your bank. Debit cards do have some protection as well but it's not as easy, it usually takes longer to dispute and refund and you may be responsible for up to $500, whereas most credit cards are $0 to $50. Debit cards fall under Regulation E, whereas credit cards fall under Regulation Z.
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,076
Hmmmm. It clearly does not say clarity enhanced, but it does not say “natural” diamond either .... not sure if that’s a distinction without a difference or not ...
Don’t get me wrong; I’m definitely of the opinion that clarity enhanced should be disclosed because any reasonable customer would assume that the absence of the CE description means that there is none.

I hope that you can get a hassle-free refund.

A note on the vendor taking a month to find a replacement ... while I don’t think that’s speedy, I don’t think it’s unreasonable either. (I’m waiting that long with a great vendor right now, although my request is super picky)
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
8,397
Hmmmm. It clearly does not say clarity enhanced, but it does not say “natural” diamond either .... not sure if that’s a distinction without a difference or not ...
Per the ftc "diamond" with no descriptive terms is diamond that was mined diamond with no treatments.
Anything else is required to have disclosure.
 
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Sabrina31

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Messages
291
Best of luck. Please let us know how it goes.

Also, you may check with your bank. Debit cards do have some protection as well but it's not as easy, it usually takes longer to dispute and refund and you may be responsible for up to $500, whereas most credit cards are $0 to $50. Debit cards fall under Regulation E, whereas credit cards fall under Regulation Z.
The only other difference is you will likely have to wait until the dispute is settled to get the money back in your account, but yes you can absolutely still dispute this transaction
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,602
Per the ftc "diamond" with no descriptive terms is diamond that was mined diamond with no treatments.
Bingo. Lack of information is not disclosure.

My guess is the jeweler is going to slow play the OP once again. IMO, he is playing psychology games. The longer someone holds onto something the less likely they are to return, rather that be because they truly fall in love with it or they feel guilty about letting it drag out that long and don't want to be a hassle/problem.

Also @kmoro, while you may have a special situation I do not feel a month is even close to reasonable to start a search for a fancy shape. We could accomplish that within minutes for the OP. Sounds like you started your search and can't find what you seek so you have to be patient. This poor girl isn't getting any one to even start the process. Again, a slow play IMO.

I am curious @JenRN, how did it go?
 

rockysalamander

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
4,833
Don't let the seller play for time. Again, the FTC guidance does not allow them to "make it right." You were not provided the necessary disclosure. The fact that you discussed wanting a fancy shape is irrelevant, in my reading. The sale of the stone you obtained is the only point of discussion. That is act that was in violation of the FTC rules.

Again, do not get into the "let me make it right" or what you may or may not have expressed about the shape. It is irrelevant. The only relevant fact is that you contend they sold you a fracture filled diamond without a full point of sale disclosure. Stay laser-focused. Do not allow them to distract or sideline you. You keep coming back to the fact that they failed to disclose the treatment, which is required under the FTC rules. Period.
 

rockysalamander

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
4,833
Also, check your state's laws. In my state, in order to make a claim under the state consumer protection law, you have to send a "demand" letter within 30 days prior to filing in court. Make sure they are not able to run out the clock on any state protections.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,602
All excellent advice by @rockysalamander. And more reason to consult with an attorney. A large sum of money is at risk so a few hundred bucks for some legal guidance is money well spent.

People tend to just assume getting an attorney automatically means litigation. As a wise mentor once told me, never be afraid to be fight but always be certain what you are fighting for is right.

Knowing your weaknesses and seeking counsel to strengthen them is extremely wise and only empowers you to more effectively negotiate a settlement out of court. It also adds protection in the fact you proceed in a manner that doesn't negatively effect your overall position should you find it necessary to utilize the courts.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,475
F4E579F9-6FA9-4B15-9F2C-86060C55ADC5.jpeg 6622497C-6C4E-4E60-95F1-FBA659D177C4.jpeg Clarity enhancement is a treatment, it doesnt change the “natural” status.
Having done part of a diamond grading course, pretty much the first thing you are supposed to look for are signs of the gem not being a diamond ie Moissanite, followed by treatments ie clarity enhancement. Both are actually very easy to see under a microscope. A graduate gemologist would NOT fail to see this, but a “graduate gemologist”??? In the employ of said jeweller might be told not to include such information.
And a graduate gemologist usually states their qualification.
And should also be an accredited appraiser.
I would give the GIA a call and also the American Society of Appraisers and establish if Ms Diane P Levin is a graduate gemologist and accredited appraiser, if not, the document they provided you with is fraudulent.
Find this information out beforehand.
Here are some screen shots, print them out, take them along.
Get your money back.
Good luck.
 

Swirl68

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2018
Messages
165
...so I went to a few jewelers to se if I could trade in and find out what I wanted. All 3 of them said they would never buy the diamond let alone sell it. The last jeweler said he believes it was CE and showed me the blue/purple fracture filled line he saw under the microscope.
This thread has been rather convoluted.

Last time we heard from the OP, she was going the next day to pick up paperwork from a gemologist that had been inspecting the stone. This was the proof she needed to back up the clarity enhanced claim of jeweler number 3 above. (These are not the same people as I understand it now. At first, I thought they were.)

Having not heard back from the OP, and then looking back over this thread to try and piece together what might have happened here, I’m beginning to wonder about jeweler number 3’s CE assessment.

So here’s my question:
If a blue/purple line is seen in a stone under a microscope, does that automatically equal CE? Is there anything else that line could be?
 
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