Jewelers are nervous about "blood diamond" movie

[diagem]

Date: 5/28/2006 6:15:06 PM
Author: ilovesparkles

Date: 5/28/2006 2:23:25 PM
Author: DiaGem


If you are a consumer..., let me try to explain....:
To this date, there is no way of knowing/PROOVING the origin of a POLISHED diamond.
I keep reading that Canadian diamonds are being marketed at a premium, that shows me that its a Marketing strategy!!! Enjoying a good ride on the ''CONFLICT'' ISSUE!!!!
I personaly know numerous manufacturers of Canadian mined rough diamonds that dont even dream of getting a premium in the wholesale level!!!!
I personaly purchased Canadian rough diamonds at regular market prices...

I really hope you understand what i am trying to relay to you..

Hmmm, I am not sure I understand 100% so let me try saying it back to you. In other words, even though a diamond is marketed as being mined in Canada it may not be since there is no way to prove it? Isn''t that fraud? Second, CA is selling to consumers at a premium because some will buy it but not to retailers because you won''t tolerate the shananigans. Is that what you are telling me?
could be..., but you cant prove its not either....
I dont know who is selling at a premium..., but there is no reason they should comand a premium, if they dont comand it in the rough stage... agreed?
And just as a note I am not totally sold on a CA diamond. It is simply a comforting thought for me when I imagine what whole villages in Africa might have gone through to give me this little rock. But in the end, it will be my BF decision to buy the stone and with CA stones being sold at premiums plus the border taxes etc, it may just be impossible.
Did you read Garry''s posts on this issue? if not, please take a few minutes and do it..., i believe he explained it the right way...

I am not trying to convince you "not" to purchase canadian diamonds..., all i am saying is before you go and pay a premium for a canadian diamond..., you should atleast understand that there are no guarantees its not an African or from any other place type of diamond..

And still 99% of the time..., it will still be a conflict free diamond...

Diamonds come from a lot of places..., Canada is fairly new in mining, you have minig in Russia, Australia, Brazil etc, etc.
You dont have to pay premiums on those..., way pay a premium on a Canadian diamond...

If you really want to pay a premium, purchase a brand that justifies the premium..., not a brand that tells you its conflict free...

Good Luck,

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 5/28/2006 6:35:16 PM
Author: DiaGem

I am not trying to convince you ''not'' to purchase canadian diamonds..., all i am saying is before you go and pay a premium for a canadian diamond..., you should atleast understand that there are no guarantees its not an African or from any other place type of diamond..

And still 99% of the time..., it will still be a conflict free diamond...

Diamonds come from a lot of places..., Canada is fairly new in mining, you have minig in Russia, Australia, Brazil etc, etc.
You dont have to pay premiums on those..., way pay a premium on a Canadian diamond...

If you really want to pay a premium, purchase a brand that justifies the premium..., not a brand that tells you its conflict free...

Good Luck,

99.8% of the time if you believe the KP people.
But DG you hit the nail on the head - I am in Australia and sell Argyle diamonds that were mined and cut and sold direct to me from Argyle owned by Riotinto - who have no reason to play around.

- but i have people coming in here and asking for a Canadian diamond so they can be sure it is conflict free!!!
It drives me nuts!!!

 

[ilovesparkles]

So as a consumer, there are some ways to ensure that I am not getting a conflict diamond if everyone in the line bringing the diamond to me is not lying. Oy it is such a headache! But as I have thought about it some more, there have been very valid points made about clothing and oil. Perhaps somethings are blown out of proportion by hollywood. Or perhaps people are just not conscious enough. Either way it seems like I can''t win with this whole conflict free diamond.

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/28/2006 8:02:56 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 5/28/2006 6:35:16 PM
Author: DiaGem

I am not trying to convince you ''not'' to purchase canadian diamonds..., all i am saying is before you go and pay a premium for a canadian diamond..., you should atleast understand that there are no guarantees its not an African or from any other place type of diamond..

And still 99% of the time..., it will still be a conflict free diamond...

Diamonds come from a lot of places..., Canada is fairly new in mining, you have minig in Russia, Australia, Brazil etc, etc.
You dont have to pay premiums on those..., way pay a premium on a Canadian diamond...

If you really want to pay a premium, purchase a brand that justifies the premium..., not a brand that tells you its conflict free...

Good Luck,

99.8% of the time if you believe the KP people.
But DG you hit the nail on the head - I am in Australia and sell Argyle diamonds that were mined and cut and sold direct to me from Argyle owned by Riotinto - who have no reason to play around.

- but i have people coming in here and asking for a Canadian diamond so they can be sure it is conflict free!!!
It drives me nuts!!!

Garry, thats why i am trying ti relay the fact that buying Canadian is all a "Marketing Strategy"...., brilliant one so-far if i may add.
In one of your previous posts on this subject, you wrote the fact that it gets you mad to pay a premium on Canadian Diamonds...

I think we should be explaining the consumer that by paying an extra premium for CA Diamonds, they are missing the point alltogether...

 

[denverappraiser]

DiaGem,

I think by ignoring why customers are willing to pay a premium for Canadian, you are missing the point entirely.

Buying Canadian is not the only way to avoid conflict diamonds but it is the best understood and it’s the best marketed. Their competitors, meaning the providers of conflict free non-Canadian goods need to step up to the plate and offer better products (in the form of better documentation). It’s crazy to the extreme that the defense of Kimberly Process seems to fall to folks like us and that a high profile Australian diamond dealer should find it difficult to convince his clients that Australian products are ‘conflict free’. GNWT (the people who are certifying diamonds as being of Canadian origin) are adding value through their service. A GNWT certified stone is WORTH MORE to many people than the exact same stone without their certification. What’s wrong with that?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/29/2006 9:06:31 AM
Author: denverappraiser

DiaGem,

I think by ignoring why customers are willing to pay a premium for Canadian, you are missing the point entirely.

Buying Canadian is not the only way to avoid conflict diamonds but it is the best understood and it’s the best marketed. Their competitors, meaning the providers of conflict free non-Canadian goods need to step up to the plate and offer better products (in the form of better documentation). It’s crazy to the extreme that the defense of Kimberly Process seems to fall to folks like us and that a high profile Australian diamond dealer should find it difficult to convince his clients that Australian products are ‘conflict free’. GNWT (the people who are certifying diamonds as being of Canadian origin) are adding value through their service. A GNWT certified stone is WORTH MORE to many people than the exact same stone without their certification. What’s wrong with that?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

what % of global diamonds sales is Canadian certified diamonds???

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 5/29/2006 9:13:39 AM
Author: DiaGem
what % of global diamonds sales is Canadian certified diamonds???

I don't know, do you? I suspect it's rather small. A few percent tops.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

so, do you get the point....

a drop in the bucket...

 

[denverappraiser]

Your right, but I don’t get your point. What difference does it make that they are a relatively small player?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[ilovesparkles]

Date: 5/29/2006 9:06:31 AM
Author: denverappraiser

DiaGem,

I think by ignoring why customers are willing to pay a premium for Canadian, you are missing the point entirely.

Buying Canadian is not the only way to avoid conflict diamonds but it is the best understood and it’s the best marketed. Their competitors, meaning the providers of conflict free non-Canadian goods need to step up to the plate and offer better products (in the form of better documentation). It’s crazy to the extreme that the defense of Kimberly Process seems to fall to folks like us and that a high profile Australian diamond dealer should find it difficult to convince his clients that Australian products are ‘conflict free’. GNWT (the people who are certifying diamonds as being of Canadian origin) are adding value through their service. A GNWT certified stone is WORTH MORE to many people than the exact same stone without their certification. What’s wrong with that?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Very well said. This is the exact point from a consumer such as myself. Until coming to this thread I had no idea there was any way to verify if diamonds sold else where were conflict free or not. But because CA diamonds are marketed that way, I was well aware. And it is worth paying a premium to many people such as myself. I would never consider buying a Tiffany diamoand, that premium is as good as bull caca to me. And I would personally not be caught dead supporting them as a business!

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/29/2006 11:02:32 AM
Author: ilovesparkles

Date: 5/29/2006 9:06:31 AM
Author: denverappraiser


DiaGem,

I think by ignoring why customers are willing to pay a premium for Canadian, you are missing the point entirely.

Buying Canadian is not the only way to avoid conflict diamonds but it is the best understood and it’s the best marketed. Their competitors, meaning the providers of conflict free non-Canadian goods need to step up to the plate and offer better products (in the form of better documentation). It’s crazy to the extreme that the defense of Kimberly Process seems to fall to folks like us and that a high profile Australian diamond dealer should find it difficult to convince his clients that Australian products are ‘conflict free’. GNWT (the people who are certifying diamonds as being of Canadian origin) are adding value through their service. A GNWT certified stone is WORTH MORE to many people than the exact same stone without their certification. What’s wrong with that?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Very well said. This is the exact point from a consumer such as myself. Until coming to this thread I had no idea there was any way to verify if diamonds sold else where were conflict free or not. But because CA diamonds are marketed that way, I was well aware. And it is worth paying a premium to many people such as myself. I would never consider buying a Tiffany diamoand, that premium is as good as bull caca to me. And I would personally not be caught dead supporting them as a business!

Economically speaking you are wrong...
I dont think you will ever get repaid for the premium you are paying for a CA diamond...
But paying a premium for a Tiffany diamond??? Humm. let me think, i think there is a much greater demand for a tiffany diamond than a CA diamond.
And Tiffany guarantees you their diamonds are conflict free just as the CA diamond does...

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 5/29/2006 12:54:24 PM
Author: DiaGem

Economically speaking you are wrong...
I dont think you will ever get repaid for the premium you are paying for a CA diamond...

How did consumer resale value get into this?

In any case, what’s your evidence of this? So far, the resale market for the GNWT certified stones has been relatively small because they are such a recent product. For most consumers, the resale value of diamonds is dismal anyway but I’m not at all convinced that the ‘extra’ value associated with the Canadian paperwork isn’t a better store of value than the diamond itself. Do you have any data about the secondary market for Canadian certified diamonds?

Consumers seeking investments shouldn’t be buying diamonds anyway. Investors who want to be involved in the diamond business have many better options than by buying and holding finished product. Short selling Tiffanys' stock comes to mind.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Sorry Neil, i forgot to mention in case of an up-grade...

and i give up too!!!

 

[diagem]

Speak of the devil...

Just picked that one up....:




IGI Cert. Answers Consumer Diamond Origin Concerns

By Jeanette Goldman Posted: 5/29/2006 10:45 AM

(Rapaport...May 29, 2006) In anticipation of possible negative fallout from the release of “The Blood Diamond” movie directed by Edward Zwick and starring Leonardo DiCaprio and Jennifer Connolly, the International Gemological Institute (IGI) said it offers verifiable documentation regarding the origin of all diamonds.

In a press release issued on May 25, the IGI said that its Certificate of Authenticity not only authenticates diamonds but also confirms full compliance with the Kimberley Process, the US 2003 Clean Diamond Act and the USA Patriot Act. The IGI Certificate of Authenticity aims at increasing consumer confidence by assuring consumers that their diamonds were responsibly mined, ethically sourced and traded from the origin to the retail marketplace - making them “conflict free.”

"IGI has for years issued verifiable documentation regarding the origin of Canadian diamonds, and we now offer verifiable documentation for the origin of all diamonds,” said IGI president and CEO Jerry Ehrenwald. “Two of IGI''s primary goals are to ensure peace of mind to the consumer and help safeguard our industry''s reputation by doing all we can to further the gemological community."


RAPAPORT - Information that means Business