Jewelers are nervous about "blood diamond" movie

[Madam Bijoux]

http:///http:///http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060525/en_nm/minerals_diamonds_film_dc

What do you think?

 

[jaz464]

I am not able to see the link

 

[Madam Bijoux]

I fixed the link - it should work now.

 

[WinkHPD]

I think we are more irritated than nervous.

Jewelers set out to work on this problem for a LONG time before the press got involved and what we are doing is having an effect. Is it fixed yet? NO. Is it MUCH better than it was? Yes.

Will it get better? I hope so.

Will coming out with a block buster designed to hurt business and capitalize on this horrible thing help anything? Probably not, much more likely to hurt innocent merchants and reward Hollywood for their ability to make money off other people''s woes. I would be a LOT more impressed if they had done this during the era that it was most prevelant when it might have actually hastened the Kimberly Accords and put more teeth into them.

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

Unfortunately, Hollywood has a habit of making movies that isolate and amplify problems for dramatic affect. ‘The China Syndrome’ and ‘Roger and me’ come to mind. Both were based on valid issues, both were relatively entertaining movies that went way off the deep end to promote their particular agenda and both have caused a tremendous amount of harm for the industry depicted. People tend to take movies way to seriously.

Images of mutilated people juxtaposed with images of fancy jewelry stores and tales of a secret evil empire is an easy film to make. Add the star power of Mr. DeCaprio, some gratuitous set destruction and a few naked people and you’ve got a great formula for making a pile of money. Will it harm the jewelry business? Maybe. Will it help enlighten people to potential damage from abuse of power? Maybe. Will it help the people in Africa? Probably not. It will certainly make some rich people richer, which is the real point. The rest is just details.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[jaz464]

I recently did a report on blood diamonds in my final semister for college. When I gave my presentation, nobody in the class even knew what a blood diamond or conflict diamond was. I think that if more people walk into a jewelry store and say, "I am looking to buy a diamond but I don''t want a blood diamond" it will be a big step in stopping the trade in conflict diamonds. I think it is very hard to stop something like this from going on when the majority of consumers don''t know the first thing about it.

 

[denverappraiser]

Jasmine,

Congratulations on your final semester!

What should a jewelry store show them in response to that question?

What are your thoughts on the effectiveness of Kimberly Process? Any other recommendations on what might help the situation?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Will it stop the consumer from buying Diamonds?..., I dont think so...
Will women stop wanting/ dreaming of a special engagement ring?..., I dont think so...
Will it make the industry more responsible? I think the industry is being super responisible...

KP is a tool that actually makes it imposible for independent small cutters to aquire rough diamonds un-officially (especially on a large volume and on regular basis).

Now add the whole Patriot Act. which makes it imposible for cutters or manufacturers to work un-official plus the fact that every well respected/ established jewelry company/manufacturer (mainly in the states, but will follow and spread) needs to forward information on vendors/suppliers they are doing business with in regards to purchasing Diamonds from sources over-seas..., the industry is becoming totaly transparent..., something that will take time to get used to, since this industry was allways a Hush-Hush kind of industry.

BUT!!! As long as you can put such a huge $$$ amount into a side change pocket of a 501 Levi''s, you will allways have shady characters in the shadows of this industry...., that will allways be out of our (legitimate industry players) controll, not to mention the world governor''s/authority''s control!!!

 

[salmon]

Consumers should be well informed about all of their purchases. I hope the movie doesn''t harm any legitimate dealers, but the movie is well over do. The movie probably won''t come close to showing the true atrocities in Sierral Leone and the Ivory Coast. Maybe the Movie industry will become richer, but so did Micheal Moore and I certainly don''t mind his work. If there is no consumer education, via movies or any other venue, I think it''s quite a shame and a crime. Movies are popular because they''er easy to digest, and people tend to read a lot less these days.

I''m certain most people in the diamond trade will be opposed to the movie, but that''s because they have a vested interest in the trade and the bottom line. There should be a compromise, but I''m not sure of how to go about it. I certainly wouldn''t trust anybody with vested interest to educate consumers impartialy. In fact, had legitimate people in the diamond industry done something about many of these issues/events that many are informed of, you wouldn''t have an over the top Hollywood spectacle. The movie will only add balance, where so little has been done already. The diamond certainly didn''t unfold the KP on their own accords, if was due to the pressure from humanitarian activists and NGO personnel who witnessed the atrocities first hand. I hope the movie does put a dent in illicit profits. When people speak of legitimate dealers being affected, I don''t know what to truly think. No one is innocent, not consumers, or anyone else. "SILENCE IS CONSCENT". If legitimate indviduals don''t want to be harmed by the bad press, they should have got off their bottoms and done something this issue years ago. This problem has been present since the 80''s. Over 20 years ago! Do you really think people who profited from the industry didn''t know about all the blood shed. Karma is painful. Dia Gem, you say it won''t hurt business, and maybe you''re right, but I personally know several women, once educated, who have opted out of blood diamonds, many of whom have given significants amounts of money to reconstruct what the the illicit diamond mining industry has destroyed. Many have gone to visit the victims. There is nothing wrong with compassion over greed or giving a little something back to the human race, instead of fulfilling our insatiable wants (diamonds and any other luxury). If we consumers and vendors had done right by the people in Sierra leone and other places to begin with, the movie would have never been produced WE ALL ARE RESPONSIBLE, whether you witness the atrocities or not. I would like to see a diamond e-vendor with information on blood diamonds in addition to the 4 C''s. I have seen it in some B&M jewelers. I wonder if that will ever happen?

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/27/2006 6:00:10 AM
Author: salmon
Consumers should be well informed about all of their purchases. I hope the movie doesn''t harm any legitimate dealers, but the movie is well over do. The movie probably won''t come close to showing the true atrocities in Sierral Leone and the Ivory Coast. Maybe the Movie industry will become richer, but so did Micheal Moore and I certainly don''t mind his work. If there is no consumer education, via movies or any other venue, I think it''s quite a shame and a crime. Movies are popular because they''er easy to digest, and people tend to read a lot less these days.

I''m certain most people in the diamond trade will be opposed to the movie, but that''s because they have a vested interest in the trade and the bottom line. There should be a compromise, but I''m not sure of how to go about it. I certainly wouldn''t trust anybody with vested interest to educate consumers impartialy. In fact, had legitimate people in the diamond industry done something about many of these issues/events that many are informed of, you wouldn''t have an over the top Hollywood spectacle. The movie will only add balance, where so little has been done already. The diamond certainly didn''t unfold the KP on their own accords, if was due to the pressure from humanitarian activists and NGO personnel who witnessed the atrocities first hand. I hope the movie does put a dent in illicit profits. When people speak of legitimate dealers being affected, I don''t know what to truly think. No one is innocent, not consumers, or anyone else. ''SILENCE IS CONSCENT''. If legitimate indviduals don''t want to be harmed by the bad press, they should have got off their bottoms and done something this issue years ago. This problem has been present since the 80''s. Over 20 years ago! Do you really think people who profited from the industry didn''t know about all the blood shed. Karma is painful. Dia Gem, you say it won''t hurt business, and maybe you''re right, but I personally know several women, once educated, who have opted out of blood diamonds, many of whom have given significants amounts of money to reconstruct what the the illicit diamond mining industry has destroyed. Many have gone to visit the victims. There is nothing wrong with compassion over greed or giving a little something back to the human race, instead of fulfilling our insatiable wants (diamonds and any other luxury). If we consumers and vendors had done right by the people in Sierra leone and other places to begin with, the movie would have never been produced WE ALL ARE RESPONSIBLE, whether you witness the atrocities or not. I would like to see a diamond e-vendor with information on blood diamonds in addition to the 4 C''s. I have seen it in some B&M jewelers. I wonder if that will ever happen?

Salmon,

ATROCITIES, happen and happened all over the world, not only in the few countries you were located in Africa...., yes it makes me feel sick to my stomach to hear about these stories..., but a movie will make the producer and actor richer as diamonds bought from illicit sources will make the buyers richer, and so-on and so-on.

There are so many example you can describe and dissect...., and you are right..., some consumers will probably stop (for a while) buying diamonds or even fur coats...., but the human memory is short-termed, and once the big wave passes things will get back to normal and big huge companies will employ little kids for a bowl of dayly food, etc etc....

Going back to the issue of diamonds..., did you ever come to think where the basis for all that "blood diamonds" started out from????
Believe me, it exicted way prior to the 20 years that you mentioned...

Like in every other industry, you will allways find the party which have interest to start an issue for their own advantage!!!!!

Just some things that are worth thinking about....., if you think hard and you have knowledge in the industry of gem''s...., there are quite a few path''s that can direct you to a different way of thinking....

 

[salmon]

Dia Gem,

I understand atrocities happen all over the world. Beleive me, I see them everyday. Not that I need to prove anything, I have worked in more than the few counties I name. While I could name at least 30, here are a few: Pakistan, Afghanistan, Serbia and Montenegro, South Sudan, North Sudan, Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Lebanon, Guinea, Burkina Faso, and Niger. But that wasn''t my point. I mention specific countries that I have Personally Witnessed Blood diamond atrocities in. To be honest, I would like to respond to your comments, but I truly don''t understand what points you want to make, your response is a little obtuse and difficult to understand. Could you please respond with a more coherent response for the benefit of all pricescopers.

You did ask some interesting questions:

1. Going back to the issue of diamonds..., did you ever come to think where the basis for all that "blood diamonds" started out from???? Yes I have Dia Gem, but please go ahead and enlighten us a little more. I would love to hear your response. Maybe you have something valuable to add that I haven''t thought of before.

2. As I look back at what you asked, it was actually only one question and a few statements. Could you please comment again. I would like to understand what you want to say. I''m sure all other posters would like the same clarity.

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/27/2006 9:10:47 AM
Author: salmon

Dia Gem,

I understand atrocities happen all over the world. Beleive me, I see them everyday. Not that I need to prove anything, I have worked in more than the few counties I name. While I could name at least 30, here are a few: Pakistan, Afghanistan, Serbia and Montenegro, South Sudan, North Sudan, Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Lebanon, Guinea, Burkina Faso, and Niger. But that wasn''t my point. I mention specific countries that I have Personally Witnessed Blood diamond atrocities in. To be honest, I would like to respond to your comments, but I truly don''t understand what points you want to make, your response is a little obtuse and difficult to understand. Could you please respond with a more coherent response for the benefit of all pricescopers.

You did ask some interesting questions:

1. Going back to the issue of diamonds..., did you ever come to think where the basis for all that ''blood diamonds'' started out from???? Yes I have Dia Gem, but please go ahead and enlighten us a little more. I would love to hear your response. Maybe you have something valuable to add that I haven''t thought of before.

2. As I look back at what you asked, it was actually only one question and a few statements. Could you please comment again. I would like to understand what you want to say. I''m sure all other posters would like the same clarity.

Hint...., who in your mind would benefit from the whole subject of moving consumer focus from free-market diamonds and try to aim the consumer $$$ towards their benefit....?

 

[salmon]

Dia Gem,

Maybe I''m stupid, but I don''t usually do well with esoteric hints and the likes. And I don''t know the answer to your question. Really, I have no clue. I''m not ashamed to admit my ignorance. Could you please answer the questions you pose. I would kindly appreciate your efforts, as I do understand there is more than one side to a story. Out of ignorance, I want to gain more of a balanced perspective from someone in the business. I assume you''re some way connected in the business. Please correct me if I''m wrong. Thank you in advance for your valuable insights. I truly look forward to hearing what you have you say.

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/27/2006 9:10:47 AM
Author: salmon

Dia Gem,

I understand atrocities happen all over the world. Beleive me, I see them everyday. Not that I need to prove anything, I have worked in more than the few counties I name. While I could name at least 30, here are a few: Pakistan, Afghanistan, Serbia and Montenegro, South Sudan, North Sudan, Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Lebanon, Guinea, Burkina Faso, and Niger. But that wasn''t my point. I mention specific countries that I have Personally Witnessed Blood diamond atrocities in. To be honest, I would like to respond to your comments, but I truly don''t understand what points you want to make, your response is a little obtuse and difficult to understand. Could you please respond with a more coherent response for the benefit of all pricescopers.

You did ask some interesting questions:

1. Going back to the issue of diamonds..., did you ever come to think where the basis for all that ''blood diamonds'' started out from???? Yes I have Dia Gem, but please go ahead and enlighten us a little more. I would love to hear your response. Maybe you have something valuable to add that I haven''t thought of before.

2. As I look back at what you asked, it was actually only one question and a few statements. Could you please comment again. I would like to understand what you want to say. I''m sure all other posters would like the same clarity.

In those countries you mention, were atrocities made only on people that were somehow involved in diamond mining????

 

[Modified Brilliant]

The book "Blood Diamonds" has been available for sometime. It was a disturbing book to read. I would imagine that the movie will be disturbing as well.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[denverappraiser]

Salmon,

Surely you aren’t suggesting that Hollywood has no vested interest, that they are ‘impartial’ or that they are a reliable source of education about world politics or history?

I was aware of this issue 20 years ago and have been reasonably attentive to it although it’s true that I’ve been unable to do much about it. The driving force for forming KP was not, as you suggest, pressure from humanitarian activists and NGO’s but from the government of Botswana, who has a seriously vested interest. It’s been pushed hard and for years by Jewelers of America, the Belgian Diamond Council and even DeBeers among others.

Plundering of natural resources as an element of war is nothing new. It’s the reason the Spanish enslaved the Incas (gold), it’s the reason for many of the Japanese attacks in WWII (oil and steel) and it’s the reason Iraq invaded Kuwait (oil again). In fact, most wars have had at least a component of this. I’m not defending these actions and they lead to many atrocities but I think it’s unreasonable to blame them on the resources involved.

The problem with the movie is exactly what you describe. Consumers may decide that buying diamonds is contribution to evil in the world based on what they see. Diamonds aren’t really necessary and there’s certainly nothing wrong with avoiding them but what will people buy instead? Other gemstones? Cars? Cell Phones? Clothes? Bigger houses? High tech bicycles? They all have their merits but they also all have their problems. Wishing that people would donate more money to worthy humanitarian causes isn’t going to make it happen and even that can cause trouble (many fine Muslim charities have recently been accused of having their funds diverted for terrorist purposes by duplicitous operators and employees). Nothing is in a vacuum.

Hollywood wields an enormous amount of power and I hope that Warner Brothers does a good job. It is possible. ‘Schindlers List’ portrayed the evil without damaging modern Germany for example. It’s a pity Mr. Spielberg isn’t involved in this one. I would be a lot more confident that they would do it responsibly.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[salmon]

Yes and No.

YES: The victims who were impaled and had their limbs cut off were mostly peripheral victims of the trade in illegal diamonds. The funding from illicit diamonds gave Foday Sanko in Sierra Leone and Charles Taylor over in Liberia the money and staff they needed to go on killing rampages. They also received training in Libya from Ghaddafi for exchange in Diamonds. They couldn''t have committed the vast majority of the atrocities they committed without blood diamonds. That''s pretty much a fact, not my opinion. FYI, Hezbollah and AlQueda have deep pockets in the illicit diamond industry. I''ve talked with many in there homes. I was surprised they didn''t hate me or tried to kill me. They said they were opposed to American policies, not individuals. So terroist activities also have links to blood diamonds. I reported those guys to the US Embassey, I don''t know what happened, but I still see them in the markets when I go back.

No: The people of these poor countries were victims long before the diamonds were mined. In fact, their natural resources have always been a curse to them. Pound for pound, Africa is a continent with the most valuable natural resources In the world. European powers understood this very well and pillaged the entire continent for years and still do so today in the form of neo-coloniazation. They bought and sold so many slaves, many countries wouldn''t exist as they do today without slavery. In fact the Carribean Islands have no true native people of African decent. The true natives were Arahawk Indians, but were killed by the same European Powers.I think I made my point and agree that diamonds are only a piece of the puzzle. I don''t feel like writing an history essay, I''m sure you''re smart enough to research the issue yourself.

I hope I answered your questions. Could you please answer the questions I posed to you? Thanks.

 

[denverappraiser]

Salmon,

One of the side affects of a multi-party conversation over the Internet is that sometimes it gets a little hard to follow the strings of questions. I’m sure DiaGem will come back and answer your questions to him. Actually, you didn’t answer mine. Are you suggesting that Hollywood is a reliable and impartial source for political and historical education?

By and large, we agree and I see nothing in your post that disputes what I’ve said. The migrations from Africa to the Caribbean and the reasons behind it have certainly contributed to the development of the nations on both sides of the ocean but I don’t see how this relates to the issue at hand. Historical participation by foreigners in the development of the ‘3rd world’ has not generally been designed for the best interest of the local population and there are certainly cases where this continues to be true. This has been true since the dawn of time and for the entire world, including internal issues in Europe. This problem i’s not about diamonds. Most of the perpetrators of the crimes you’ve described are locals but I agree that they, like us, are a product of their histories and theirs includes some shameful behavior by outsiders.

We’re all on the same side here. I don’t think anyone disagrees that the wars in Africa and elsewhere are a tragedy and that the involvement of resources both as a strategic tool and as an incentive is something that can and should be addressed. I think where we differ is in agreeing about what will help. Are you recommending a general boycott on diamonds?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 5/26/2006 2:59:15 PM
Author: jazmine
I recently did a report on blood diamonds in my final semister for college. When I gave my presentation, nobody in the class even knew what a blood diamond or conflict diamond was. I think that if more people walk into a jewelry store and say, 'I am looking to buy a diamond but I don't want a blood diamond' it will be a big step in stopping the trade in conflict diamonds. I think it is very hard to stop something like this from going on when the majority of consumers don't know the first thing about it.

Jazmine,

I'm really curious about this. Can you tell us a little bit about what you discussed in your report, how you did your research and how your fellow students responded?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[tracys126]

I did a little looking around and I found out about the Kimberly Process...

______________

http://www.kimberleyprocess.com

Today the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme has evolved into an effective mechanism for stopping the trade in conflict diamonds. The tireless efforts of governments, industry leaders and civil society representatives have helped ensure that the horrors caused by conflict diamonds may one day come to an end. But there remains much to be done. All involved with the Kimberley Process continue to monitor and assess the effectiveness of the certification scheme and strive towards a world free of conflict diamonds.
_____________________________________________


In May 2000, Southern African diamond producing states met in Kimberley, South Africa, to come up with a way to stop the trade in conflict diamonds and to ensure consumers that the diamonds that they purchase have not contributed to violent conflict and human rights abuses in their countries of origin.

In December 2000, the United Nations General Assembly adopted a resolution supporting the creation of an international certification scheme for rough diamonds. In November 2002, after nearly two years of negotiation, the efforts of governments, the international diamond industry and NGOs culminated in the creation of the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme (KPCS). The KPCS outlines the provisions by which the trade in rough diamonds is to be regulated by countries, regional economic integration organisations and rough diamond-trading entities.

The KPCS imposes stringent requirements on all Participants to guard against conflict diamonds entering the legitimate trade. Participants are required to implement internal controls, as outlined in the KPCS document, and all shipments of rough diamonds must be accompanied by a Kimberley Process certificate. The requirements for participation are outlined in Sections II, V (a) and VI (8,9) of the KPCS. Participants can only trade with other Participants who have met the minimum requirements of the certification scheme.

While each Participant is required to implement the Kimberley Process in their respective territories, sharing information and insight is an integral part of making the certification scheme work. Annual Plenary meetings are held to give Participants the opportunity to converse with one another and with industry and civil society members to improve the effectiveness of the regulatory regime.

Participants, industry and civil society representatives work together in Working Groups - Monitoring, Statistics, Diamond Experts - and Committees - Participation Committee and Selection Committee - to ensure that the integrity of the certification scheme is upheld and that the Kimberley Process moves closer to stopping the trade in conflict diamonds.

Today the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme has evolved into an effective mechanism for stopping the trade in conflict diamonds. The tireless efforts of governments, industry leaders and civil society representatives have helped ensure that the horrors caused by conflict diamonds may one day come to an end. But there remains much to be done. All involved with the Kimberley Process continue to monitor and assess the effectiveness of the certification scheme and strive towards a world free of conflict diamonds.

 

[tracys126]

Standford''s School of Business pulblished this article in their Social Innovation Review

http://www.ssireview.com/pdf/2004FA_whatworks_corpresp.pdf

Behind the Glitter
Tiffany and Co. moves to get African “conflict diamonds” out of its stores

By Matthew Schuerman
Stanford Social Innovation Review

 

[ilovesparkles]

All of you have made very good points. I did not read the whole article originally posted, but I do have a consumer point of view here to offer. This will not be the first movie to portray blood diamonds. WHile it was not the center of the movie, Lord of War had blood diamonds deeply rooted in the plot. It was a stellar movie. How factual was it? I don''t know for sure but it sure scared the crap out of me! Enough that I am considering purchasing a Canadian diamond when the time comes.

What strikes me the most about this issue, is that even though things are not as bad as they once were, and the KP act is in effect, the fact is that blood diamonds are in circulation. They are bought and sold under our noses most likely. From my understanding, no jeweler can pick up a diamond and tell me if it is or is not a blood diamond. And from m y understanding of how DeBeers works, these diamonds will be continued to be released from their vaults over time. Even if there were no longer blood diamonds mined, the fact that people are making profit off of these atrocities remains a fact. By choosing to purchase a Canadian diamond, I take myself out of this equation. I cannot purchase a Canadian blood diamond.

I also agree that a movie such as this is long overdue! And whoever pointed out that it would be a dream if Steven Spielberg were involved I agree. There is a piece that remains unknown. Who will truly profit from the movie? In the case of Schindler''s List, Spielberg paid for work, labor, euipement, salaries, etc. All profits from the movie went to a charity benefitting Holocaust survivors and other associated organizations. Hollywood did not really make a profit from the movie, but in my humble opinion, society did.

 

[diagem]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 25px">Date: 5/27/2006 9:54:08 AM
Author: salmon
Yes and No.

YES: The victims who were impaled and had their limbs cut off were mostly peripheral victims of the trade in illegal diamonds. The funding from illicit diamonds gave Foday Sanko in Sierra Leone and Charles Taylor over in Liberia the money and staff they needed to go on killing rampages. They also received training in Libya from Ghaddafi for exchange in Diamonds. They couldn''t have committed the vast majority of the atrocities they committed without blood diamonds. That''s pretty much a fact, not my opinion. FYI, Hezbollah and AlQueda have deep pockets in the illicit diamond industry. I''ve talked with many in there homes. I was surprised they didn''t hate me or tried to kill me. They said they were opposed to American policies, not individuals. So terroist activities also have links to blood diamonds. I reported those guys to the US Embassey, I don''t know what happened, but I still see them in the markets when I go back.

No: The people of these poor countries were victims long before the diamonds were mined. In fact, their natural resources have always been a curse to them. Pound for pound, Africa is a continent with the most valuable natural resources In the world. European powers understood this very well and pillaged the entire continent for years and still do so today in the form of neo-coloniazation. They bought and sold so many slaves, many countries wouldn''t exist as they do today without slavery. In fact the Carribean Islands have no true native people of African decent. The true natives were Arahawk Indians, but were killed by the same European Powers.I think I made my point and agree that diamonds are only a piece of the puzzle. I don''t feel like writing an history essay, I''m sure you''re smart enough to research the issue yourself.

I hope I answered your questions. Could you please answer the questions I posed to you? Thanks.

Salmon,

Since me and you are total strangers to one anther..., respectivelly..., i think i pointed out to you that there might be more options/reasons on how "blood Diamonds" got on to the agenda of the media.

Please understand that i will not name any names!!!

It hope it does give you more directions to view this subject, and in my opinion there are more directions...
And if you put a little effort in research...., you might agree with me.

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/27/2006 9:20:29 PM
Author: ilovesparkles
All of you have made very good points. I did not read the whole article originally posted, but I do have a consumer point of view here to offer. This will not be the first movie to portray blood diamonds. WHile it was not the center of the movie, Lord of War had blood diamonds deeply rooted in the plot. It was a stellar movie. How factual was it? I don''t know for sure but it sure scared the crap out of me! Enough that I am considering purchasing a Canadian diamond when the time comes.

What strikes me the most about this issue, is that even though things are not as bad as they once were, and the KP act is in effect, the fact is that blood diamonds are in circulation. They are bought and sold under our noses most likely. From my understanding, no jeweler can pick up a diamond and tell me if it is or is not a blood diamond. And from m y understanding of how DeBeers works, these diamonds will be continued to be released from their vaults over time. Even if there were no longer blood diamonds mined, the fact that people are making profit off of these atrocities remains a fact. By choosing to purchase a Canadian diamond, I take myself out of this equation. I cannot purchase a Canadian blood diamond.

I also agree that a movie such as this is long overdue! And whoever pointed out that it would be a dream if Steven Spielberg were involved I agree. There is a piece that remains unknown. Who will truly profit from the movie? In the case of Schindler''s List, Spielberg paid for work, labor, euipement, salaries, etc. All profits from the movie went to a charity benefitting Holocaust survivors and other associated organizations. Hollywood did not really make a profit from the movie, but in my humble opinion, society did.

Its true, you cannot purchase a Canadian blood diamond...

But the Canadian diamond you are purchasing could have been mined in Africa, and you would never know it...

 

[salmon]

My good friend Neil,


Humm, as usual I agree and disagree with you. I headed to kashmir today, i don''t have much time, but I''ll respond as much as I can and finish the post later. Sorry about that in advance. Where do i start.

1. Is Hollywood impartial? Hell NO. I never said that. Is Hollwood a reliable source of education about world politics or history? Sometimes yes, have you forgotten Schindler''s List and Roots although not Hollywood). But that''s not my point. My point is that Hollywood can serve as a important educational tool for people who don''t or never will research the issue themselves. It''s sometimes a good start off point, and at least makes people look at issues differently. If you''re not smart enough to take Hollywood with a grain a salt, then most likely you''re a person who buys without concious considerations. In other words you can''t think for yourself and would probably rather watch American Idol than worry yourself about blood diamonds and those salvage Black people in some other land. Africans don''t count do they? At least they didn''t count during the Rawandan genocide? Although the Belgians were responsible for it, they didn''t do a got damn thing besides call people salvages. My problem is not with diamonds, my problem is with mass consumerism at any cost, without any thought for the majority of poor people on this planet. Or any least trying to make things right or at minimum conduct business in a humane way. nothing more nothing less.

2. "The driving force for forming KP was not, as you suggest, pressure from humanitarian activists and NGO’s but from the government of Botswana, who has a seriously vested interest". Neil, that is not nearly or completely true. And I think you know this in your heart. read this link: http://pawss.hampshire.edu/topics/conflictdiamonds/index.html There was AN HUGE OUTCRY before anyone did a DAMN thing anyone!!! Where''s your proof Nei?. I''m a little upset bnecause we worked hard on several campaigns and got no response from anyone. And now to hear you try to give credit to the diamond industry, who''s only goal is to make money makes me wanna vomit on myself. Behind the scenes, a lot of good NGO workers died in the field, trying to bring light to the issue. Diamond traders were no too happy with them if you know what I mean. Sorry Neil I have aplane to catch. I''ll finish up later. Sorry for any grammar or misspelled words and etc. I don''t have time to go back and check.

 

[denverappraiser]

Salmon,

I agree that the insiders in diamond industry were not the first to scream foul and that they would not have considered the issue were it not for outrage of the NGO’s. The industry was the source of the proposed solution and, even more importantly, the industry is who is implementing a solution. I’m not a 100% fan of KP by the way. It’s the beginning, not the end of the solution. I’ll be happy to discuss it with you in another thread and I suspect we agree on most of that as well.

Date: 5/28/2006 3:45:18 AM
Author: salmon

My problem is not with diamonds, my problem is with mass consumerism at any cost,

I couldn’t agree more with this. Diamonds should be a blessing for all they touch from the mine to the consumer. By and large this is already the case but progress is both possible and mandatory. Low prices and high profits are not the only objectives and money is not the only cost.

I confess a certain cynicism about NGO’s that parallels your cynicism towards commercial industry. The problem is that they jockey for the position of ‘first’ or ‘leader’ in various issues because it contributes to their own fund raising efforts to be able to make these claims. They like to make a lot of noise about an injustice and, when someone else works out a solution, they trumpet it as an example of their good work. NGO’s and humanitarian groups are an industry too, and they also have their own vested interests. In most ways this is ok but it can be counterproductive as well. It tends to subvert alliances that are the source of the solutions. Far more importantly, it subverts the solutions to the NEXT problem. Botswana and others have done a good thing here and it’s taking nothing away from the NGO’s to give them credit for it.

I also don’t have a problem with telling the story. It’s important, it’s true, and it’s certain to be repeated with something else, somewhere else, by someone else. Raising consumer awareness about how their consumption patterns affect others is a good thing and hopefully will help prevent the next tragedy. There is no longer such a thing as an ‘isolated regional conflict’, perhaps there never was. I just don’t trust Warner Brothers to carry that message. The message that diamonds = evil is both easier to deliver and more dramatic. No, I haven’t forgotten Schindlers List, in fact I’m the one who brought it up. If this was a Spielberg production it wouldn’t make me nervous at all. I know nothing about this movie beyond the name and I sincerely hope WB does it well. It’s possible.

Travel safely my friend.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[salmon]

Neil,

Bravo! I agree completely. Yes we are an industry and YES we have a vested interest, and yes this too makes me uncomfortable. When faced with two evils, I try to pick the lesser of the two. Neil, I don''t have a lot more to say, other than I was trying to bring balance to the discussion when I MENTIONED THE ROLES OF NGOs and activist. Alas, we REALLY agree again. I''ve enjoyed this throughly my friend. I just arrived in Isamabad, so I''m exhasted. I have a long trip via road tomorrow, so I need some sleep. I hope I''ll be able to stay in contact with you good folk. The internet connections have been great so far, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN IT''s GOING DOWN. Neil, lots of love, and a big hug from Isamabad. Actually A BIG HUG TO ALL YOU POSTERS ON THIS THREAD! I (WE) CERTAINLY have a LOT to THINK ABOUT. THANK YOU!

 

[ilovesparkles]

Date: 5/28/2006 3:36:33 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/27/2006 9:20:29 PM
Author: ilovesparkles
All of you have made very good points. I did not read the whole article originally posted, but I do have a consumer point of view here to offer. This will not be the first movie to portray blood diamonds. WHile it was not the center of the movie, Lord of War had blood diamonds deeply rooted in the plot. It was a stellar movie. How factual was it? I don''t know for sure but it sure scared the crap out of me! Enough that I am considering purchasing a Canadian diamond when the time comes.

What strikes me the most about this issue, is that even though things are not as bad as they once were, and the KP act is in effect, the fact is that blood diamonds are in circulation. They are bought and sold under our noses most likely. From my understanding, no jeweler can pick up a diamond and tell me if it is or is not a blood diamond. And from m y understanding of how DeBeers works, these diamonds will be continued to be released from their vaults over time. Even if there were no longer blood diamonds mined, the fact that people are making profit off of these atrocities remains a fact. By choosing to purchase a Canadian diamond, I take myself out of this equation. I cannot purchase a Canadian blood diamond.

I also agree that a movie such as this is long overdue! And whoever pointed out that it would be a dream if Steven Spielberg were involved I agree. There is a piece that remains unknown. Who will truly profit from the movie? In the case of Schindler''s List, Spielberg paid for work, labor, euipement, salaries, etc. All profits from the movie went to a charity benefitting Holocaust survivors and other associated organizations. Hollywood did not really make a profit from the movie, but in my humble opinion, society did.

Its true, you cannot purchase a Canadian blood diamond...

But the Canadian diamond you are purchasing could have been mined in Africa, and you would never know it...

I don''t understand how it is possible to purchase a Canadian mined diamond from Africa. The fact that it is mined from Canada eliminates this possibility. I understand there may be branches of companies in Canada that sell diamonds from DeBeers and therein lies the possibility. But this is not what I was referring to.

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/28/2006 12:14:05 PM
Author: ilovesparkles

Date: 5/28/2006 3:36:33 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/27/2006 9:20:29 PM
Author: ilovesparkles
All of you have made very good points. I did not read the whole article originally posted, but I do have a consumer point of view here to offer. This will not be the first movie to portray blood diamonds. WHile it was not the center of the movie, Lord of War had blood diamonds deeply rooted in the plot. It was a stellar movie. How factual was it? I don''t know for sure but it sure scared the crap out of me! Enough that I am considering purchasing a Canadian diamond when the time comes.

What strikes me the most about this issue, is that even though things are not as bad as they once were, and the KP act is in effect, the fact is that blood diamonds are in circulation. They are bought and sold under our noses most likely. From my understanding, no jeweler can pick up a diamond and tell me if it is or is not a blood diamond. And from m y understanding of how DeBeers works, these diamonds will be continued to be released from their vaults over time. Even if there were no longer blood diamonds mined, the fact that people are making profit off of these atrocities remains a fact. By choosing to purchase a Canadian diamond, I take myself out of this equation. I cannot purchase a Canadian blood diamond.

I also agree that a movie such as this is long overdue! And whoever pointed out that it would be a dream if Steven Spielberg were involved I agree. There is a piece that remains unknown. Who will truly profit from the movie? In the case of Schindler''s List, Spielberg paid for work, labor, euipement, salaries, etc. All profits from the movie went to a charity benefitting Holocaust survivors and other associated organizations. Hollywood did not really make a profit from the movie, but in my humble opinion, society did.

Its true, you cannot purchase a Canadian blood diamond...

But the Canadian diamond you are purchasing could have been mined in Africa, and you would never know it...

I don''t understand how it is possible to purchase a Canadian mined diamond from Africa. The fact that it is mined from Canada eliminates this possibility. I understand there may be branches of companies in Canada that sell diamonds from DeBeers and therein lies the possibility. But this is not what I was referring to.

If you are a consumer..., let me try to explain....:
To this date, there is no way of knowing/PROOVING the origin of a POLISHED diamond.
I keep reading that Canadian diamonds are being marketed at a premium, that shows me that its a Marketing strategy!!! Enjoying a good ride on the "CONFLICT" ISSUE!!!!
I personaly know numerous manufacturers of Canadian mined rough diamonds that dont even dream of getting a premium in the wholesale level!!!!
I personaly purchased Canadian rough diamonds at regular market prices...

I really hope you understand what i am trying to relay to you...

 

[ilovesparkles]

Date: 5/28/2006 2:23:25 PM
Author: DiaGem

If you are a consumer..., let me try to explain....:
To this date, there is no way of knowing/PROOVING the origin of a POLISHED diamond.
I keep reading that Canadian diamonds are being marketed at a premium, that shows me that its a Marketing strategy!!! Enjoying a good ride on the ''CONFLICT'' ISSUE!!!!
I personaly know numerous manufacturers of Canadian mined rough diamonds that dont even dream of getting a premium in the wholesale level!!!!
I personaly purchased Canadian rough diamonds at regular market prices...

I really hope you understand what i am trying to relay to you...

Hmmm, I am not sure I understand 100% so let me try saying it back to you. In other words, even though a diamond is marketed as being mined in Canada it may not be since there is no way to prove it? Isn''t that fraud? Second, CA is selling to consumers at a premium because some will buy it but not to retailers because you won''t tolerate the shananigans. Is that what you are telling me?

And just as a note I am not totally sold on a CA diamond. It is simply a comforting thought for me when I imagine what whole villages in Africa might have gone through to give me this little rock. But in the end, it will be my BF decision to buy the stone and with CA stones being sold at premiums plus the border taxes etc, it may just be impossible.