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Jessica Simpon...fat?

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tlh

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I am not in hollywood, and I actually think Nicole Richie (NOW) and other thin actresses, Sarah Michelle Gellar etc, are goregeous! I also think that Angelina Jolie and Demi Moore are stunning. But I don''t have boobies, and my body is not too curvy, so I look to the waifs, as my example of what to look like. I know it isn''t healthy... but it is the truth.

Please don''t shoot me!
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kcoursolle

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I''ve never been a huge fan of Jessica, but I think she looks as gorgeous as ever. I have to say though that I think her wardrobe stylist should get the boot for putting her in that!!
 

VegasAngel

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Date: 2/2/2009 4:23:03 PM
Author: tlh
I am not in hollywood, and I actually think Nicole Richie (NOW) and other thin actresses, Sarah Michelle Gellar etc, are goregeous! I also think that Angelina Jolie and Demi Moore are stunning. But I don''t have boobies, and my body is not too curvy, so I look to the waifs, as my example of what to look like. I know it isn''t healthy... but it is the truth.

Please don''t shoot me!
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You made me laugh
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musey

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Date: 2/2/2009 4:14:24 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I dont agree with you that media doesnt play a part Musey, why do they even bother bringing up weight? I consider Rag Mags, Entertainment Tonight etc.. all media.
I didn't say that they don't play a part, I just said that they are not responsible/to blame for celebrities getting too thin. It's a fine line, but there is a difference. Celebs that become unhealthily thin, as I've said again and again, are not generally doing it because some "rag mag" called them fat. They're doing it because they themselves have a skewed idea of what is "beautiful" - which is their own responsibility, because if I don't have that skewed idea at this point in my life/career, then it is not a given.

People can pick and choose what messages they take away from the media. For every one single blogger/tabloid saying "Lookie at gorgeous anorexo girl!" or "Ooh 120-lb. Britney Spears is obese!", there are ten other more respectable sources saying that Scarlett Johansson, Eva Mendes and Kate Winslet are the epitome of bodily perfection. They are all size 6-8.

I can look at the "yay for anorexia!" pictures and know, objectively, that they are unhealthy and not something to aspire to... then flip over to E! and see beautiful Kate Winslet and say "yes, now THAT is something to aspire to!" And I don't buy the whole "not everyone can be so evolved" argument. Yes, they can. It is not that hard. If they educate themselves on health, nutrition and wellness (as anyone in a body-conscious field should), then they should know that being ridiculously thin is not the better choice.

Though, again, that was a very small part of everything that I sad to you.


This type of conversation is likely to be a losing battle for someone like me, because while I do have a very different perspective that makes me uniquely (not more, just uniquely) qualified to bring a little bit of light to this conversation, it's that perspective that will pigeonhole me as unqualified. Though it seems to me, as someone who maintains a very healthy body and body image despite being in the beginning (most scathing, discriminating, and tough) phases of a career in this field, that at least lends some salt to what I think/say on the subject.
 

VegasAngel

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Date: 2/2/2009 4:27:55 PM
Author: musey

Date: 2/2/2009 4:14:24 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I dont agree with you that media doesnt play a part Musey, why do they even bother bringing up weight? I consider Rag Mags, Entertainment Tonight etc.. all media.
I didn''t say that they don''t play a part, I just said that they are not responsible/to blame for celebrities getting too thin. It''s a fine line, but there is a difference. Celebs that become unhealthily thin, as I''ve said again and again, are not generally doing it because some ''rag mag'' called them fat. They''re doing it because they themselves have a skewed idea of what is ''beautiful'' - which is their own responsibility, because if I don''t have that skewed idea at this point in my life/career, then it is not a given.

Though, again, that was a very small part of everything that I sad to you.


This type of conversation is likely to be a losing battle for someone like me, because while I do have a very different perspective that makes me uniquely (not more, just uniquely) qualified to bring a little bit of light to this conversation, it''s that perspective that will pigeonhole me as unqualified. Though it seems to me, as someone who maintains a very healthy body and body image despite being in the beginning (most scathing, discriminating, and tough) phases of a career in this field, that at least lends some salt to what I think/say on the subject.
You don''t think that Media plays a part as to why celebrities & not have a skewed idea of what is healthy &/or not? Not only does the media play a part but so does the entire entertaiment industry inside & out. No one should be using a celeb as their guide for healthy weight, anyway. That is something to take up with a Dr. or other professional. Not sure where you are in your career but the pressures willl get harder.
 

fieryred33143

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Date: 2/2/2009 4:39:52 PM
Author: VegasAngel


Date: 2/2/2009 4:27:55 PM
Author: musey



Date: 2/2/2009 4:14:24 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I dont agree with you that media doesnt play a part Musey, why do they even bother bringing up weight? I consider Rag Mags, Entertainment Tonight etc.. all media.
I didn't say that they don't play a part, I just said that they are not responsible/to blame for celebrities getting too thin. It's a fine line, but there is a difference. Celebs that become unhealthily thin, as I've said again and again, are not generally doing it because some 'rag mag' called them fat. They're doing it because they themselves have a skewed idea of what is 'beautiful' - which is their own responsibility, because if I don't have that skewed idea at this point in my life/career, then it is not a given.

Though, again, that was a very small part of everything that I sad to you.


This type of conversation is likely to be a losing battle for someone like me, because while I do have a very different perspective that makes me uniquely (not more, just uniquely) qualified to bring a little bit of light to this conversation, it's that perspective that will pigeonhole me as unqualified. Though it seems to me, as someone who maintains a very healthy body and body image despite being in the beginning (most scathing, discriminating, and tough) phases of a career in this field, that at least lends some salt to what I think/say on the subject.
You don't think that Media plays a part as to why celebrities & not have a skewed idea of what is healthy &/or not? Not only does the media play a part but so does the entire entertaiment industry inside & out. No one should be using a celeb as their guide for healthy weight, anyway. That is something to take up with a Dr. or other professional. Not sure where you are in your career but the pressures willl get harder.
I agree. Very few celebrities have been able to fight back the way that the media has portrayed them without making some sort of change. The only person that comes to mind right now is Jennifer Love Hewit. TMZ made a post about how "fat" she looked in a bikini and she fought back telling them that she was happy and healthy. They actually posted an apology. Other celebrites would see that and 1 month later they're stick thin.

But I do agree with Musey that ultimately you are in control of how you choose to react to pressures and that most of these stick thin celebrites are like that because they just aren't satisfied with themselves. That happened to both Nicole Richie and Ashley Simpson.
 

tlh

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Date: 2/2/2009 4:26:35 PM
Author: VegasAngel

Date: 2/2/2009 4:23:03 PM
Author: tlh
I am not in hollywood, and I actually think Nicole Richie (NOW) and other thin actresses, Sarah Michelle Gellar etc, are goregeous! I also think that Angelina Jolie and Demi Moore are stunning. But I don''t have boobies, and my body is not too curvy, so I look to the waifs, as my example of what to look like. I know it isn''t healthy... but it is the truth.

Please don''t shoot me!
20.gif
You made me laugh
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You know, if this was around decades ago, I would say I looked up to Audrey Hepburn or Grace Kelly.... and they are both much smaller than Marilyn Monroe. I just think we look to who we can identify to... and the media plays a huge role in our own self image of what is "normal".
 

decodelighted

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I don''t think there is any "expert" on this topic ... the thread topic was "What do you think about Jessica Simpson being called *fat*?" Its a personal opinion. And I don''t think the total history of someone''s previous weights is necessary to make a generic assessment. Sure, having seen pictures of a celeb looking hotter or younger or before surgery etc might color one''s perceptions a bit -- but ultimately a person is who they are *right now*.

IMHO Jessica looks "healthy" but not "ideal" in that horrible outfit. Possibly in a different outfit she''d look on par with Kate Winslet. (Who can also appear quite different depending on the angle etc)
 

Italiahaircolor

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I believe beauty comes in all shapes and sizes...Nicole Richie, is beautiful...but, so Sherri Shepherd. There is no "stock" answer for beauty...and Hollywood or not, you should be measured by whats inside--not the package it comes in.
 

tlh

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Date: 2/2/2009 4:52:27 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
I believe beauty comes in all shapes and sizes...Nicole Richie, is beautiful...but, so Sherri Shepherd. There is no ''stock'' answer for beauty...and Hollywood or not, you should be measured by whats inside--not the package it comes in.
:) I like that answer!
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musey

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Date: 2/2/2009 4:39:52 PM
Author: VegasAngel
Date: 2/2/2009 4:27:55 PM
Author: musey
Date: 2/2/2009 4:14:24 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I dont agree with you that media doesnt play a part Musey, why do they even bother bringing up weight? I consider Rag Mags, Entertainment Tonight etc.. all media.
I didn't say that they don't play a part, I just said that they are not responsible/to blame for celebrities getting too thin. It's a fine line, but there is a difference. Celebs that become unhealthily thin, as I've said again and again, are not generally doing it because some 'rag mag' called them fat. They're doing it because they themselves have a skewed idea of what is 'beautiful' - which is their own responsibility, because if I don't have that skewed idea at this point in my life/career, then it is not a given.

Though, again, that was a very small part of everything that I sad to you.


This type of conversation is likely to be a losing battle for someone like me, because while I do have a very different perspective that makes me uniquely (not more, just uniquely) qualified to bring a little bit of light to this conversation, it's that perspective that will pigeonhole me as unqualified. Though it seems to me, as someone who maintains a very healthy body and body image despite being in the beginning (most scathing, discriminating, and tough) phases of a career in this field, that at least lends some salt to what I think/say on the subject.
You don't think that Media plays a part as to why celebrities & not have a skewed idea of what is healthy &/or not? Not only does the media play a part but so does the entire entertaiment industry inside & out.
I'm not sure that you're getting the full meaning out of my posts. I said above that I did not say that the media "does not play a part." It does. Everything does. But it is not responsible, and I think it is a cop-out to say that it does. That's like saying that TVs cause childhood obesity. No, sticking a child in front of a TV instead of taking them outside to play can contribute to childhood obesity, along with many other factors. It's not the TV that's causing it, it's the choice to abuse the TV plus X Y and Z other lifestyle choices and heredity factors that cause it.

Neither is the industry responsible. As I said, you will be told conflicting things every single day from agents, casting directors, etc. It is the individual person's job to weed out what is and isn't meaningful. I don't know if this is/was the case with your sister, but when you are first starting out and not getting contact with very many industry professionals, it's easy to take any one person's opinion as fact. Once you get further and further in, you realize that they are no more than one person with one opinion. The next person you meet will have an entirely different opinion. What does that add up to? The only person who can determine what is right for you is you. People who drop weight unhealthily can blame whoever they want, but in the end they are the ones making the decisions. If they're not making well-informed decisions, that is their own fault - not anyone else's.

Of course that is not to say that outside factors (in this case "the media" or "the industry") do not "play a part." Everything plays a part.

No one should be using a celeb as their guide for healthy weight, anyway. That is something to take up with a Dr. or other professional. Not sure where you are in your career but the pressures willl get harder.
Thanks for the career advice
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I don't know what you're basing that statement on, but as someone who has been living in Los Angeles for over 5 years now, and has discussed this very issue with people at nearly every stage of celebrity, I can tell you that no - the "pressures" do not "get harder" as you get further in.

The worst is when you are first starting out. At that point, you have a very "green" approach to the whole body image issue - you still have emotional attachment to your appearance, you haven't had enough exposure to different members of the industry to learn how their minds work, you don't have enough confidence in yourself to know who to (and not to) compare yourself to (and you do have to compare, that is half of what this industry is about as we are all "up against" each other for work), etc.

The first time someone called me fat, I cried. I walked out of the audition, got in my car, drove around the block, and cried. For a good 15 minutes. I called my mom and she said the requisite "don't listen to them!" (good advice), and then I went home to my roommate and she reminded me that a size 4 is never "fat." With a lot of hand-holding, I went to my next audition. The casting director called me "gorgeous in every way." I bounced off the walls the entire drive home, told my roommate and we giggled and squealed together. The next audition, I was "Alright, but not what [they're] looking for."

The truth is, and this is something that takes many people a very long time to truly accept, that every comment like that means nothing. Absolutely nothing. In the beginning, it really affected me - if someone told me I needed to lose weight, it was a horrible day. If someone told me I had a perfect body, it made my week. Now, I've learned how this industry works - if someone tells me I need to lose weight, I thank them for their time and think to myself "Meh, guess I wasn't what they're picturing for that role" and have forgotten it by the time I hit the third stoplight on the way home. If someone tells me I'm beautiful, I think "I wonder if that's good or bad in this situation" and have forgotten it by the time I hit the fifth stoplight on the way home (I hold on to the compliments a bit longer
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!).

Moral of the story being: as you progress in this industry, you let go of the emotional attachment you place on your physical appearance. "Too fat" is just another way to say "not right," and nothing more. It's not something to cry over or change your lifestyle to fix, it's just that one single person's take on your appearance that is automatically affected by whatever it is they happen to be looking for at the time.


ETA: I mentor high school students considering a career in the on-camera end of the entertainment industry. This is the first thing I tell my girls (it's a speech at this point):

"Let go of your body image issues. As far as your career goes, your body is not a point of pride or a reflection on who you are - it is a product. You wouldn't sacrifice quality control on your product just to get more sales, so don't sacrifice your health to satisfy some random casting director. You also wouldn't take a compliment on your product as a reflection of your worthiness, so don't put your self worth on the industry's perception of your body - because you'll have to change your body every day to live up to all the different expectations coming from every direction, and in the process, lose who truly are. The value that we have in this industry comes from our individuality, not our ability to fit the mold - so don't sacrifice what makes you you for anyone along the way.

Go home to your boyfriend and let his compliments mean something to you, but don't let anything a casting director tells you go to your head. Their reaction to you is based on what they went into that audition hoping to find, and nothing else. If you're too thin for this part, you'll be too fat for the next, and so on - until you walk into that audition where they happen to be looking for you - just as you are."
 

musey

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Date: 2/2/2009 4:49:35 PM
Author: decodelighted
I don''t think there is any ''expert'' on this topic ... the thread topic was ''What do you think about Jessica Simpson being called *fat*?'' Its a personal opinion. And I don''t think the total history of someone''s previous weights is necessary to make a generic assessment. Sure, having seen pictures of a celeb looking hotter or younger or before surgery etc might color one''s perceptions a bit -- but ultimately a person is who they are *right now*.
The reason I mentioned previous weights is that I had already mentioned my view on Jessica''s current body is based purely on knowing what her version of "healthy" looks like. If I saw a person that looked just like she does in these pictures, I would have no opinion on her size at all... it was just the fact that for her, knowing what I know, she did not look healthy when I saw her.

You asked if Christina Hendricks looked healthy to me, and I was explaining why I couldn''t say. To me, she looks beautiful and shapely. I wouldn''t guess that she''s in excellent physical health, but I would guess that she is in good physical health.

To me, whether or not someone is "fat" is not based personal opinion (though I have an aversion to the word "Fat" because it is so non-specific). It is based upon whether their body fat/BMI falls into the overweight/obese range or not. So to look at Jessica, knowing what I know, she does not seem to currently be in excellent physical shape, from an objective standpoint, which is my own definition of "healthy." She is in subway health, not grilled chicken and steamed vegetables health.

IMHO Jessica looks ''healthy'' but not ''ideal'' in that horrible outfit. Possibly in a different outfit she''d look on par with Kate Winslet. (Who can also appear quite different depending on the angle etc)
I personally disagree. They have a very different look to me, regardless of the angle.
 

VegasAngel

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Musey, does it really need to be said they arent 100% percent responsible? You are I arent really talking about Jessica anymore we are talking about the inside of the industry. YES comments should be blown off but just look at celebrities now, how many seem SUPER comfortable? That takes years.
 

musey

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Date: 2/2/2009 5:18:44 PM
Author: VegasAngel
Musey, does it really need to be said they arent 100% percent responsible? You are I arent really talking about Jessica anymore we are talking about the inside of the industry. YES comments should be blown off but just look at celebrities now, how many seem SUPER comfortable? That takes years.
If that''s the truth (which it is), then yes. The only reason I clarified my feelings on the subject is that you misinterpreted my words ("You don''t think that Media plays a part as to why celebrities & not have a skewed idea of what is healthy &/or not?" when I had already said "I didn''t say that they don''t play a part, I just said that they are not responsible/to blame for celebrities getting too thin. It''s a fine line, but there is a difference."). When someone misunderstands or misquotes me, I clarify myself. That is our job as communicative creatures.

Yep, I''ve moved on from Jessica, because that''s where the discussion went on its own. People were already talking about the responsibility of the media before then, and other people (including you) made comments that I felt were an inaccurate representation of the industry - since I do have some experience in that area, why not attempt to set the record straight?
 

VegasAngel

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I do have a little knowledge in the industry myself which, comes from my sister who is enjoying success in it.
 

musey

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Date: 2/2/2009 5:18:44 PM
Author: VegasAngel
Musey, does it really need to be said they arent 100% percent responsible? You are I arent really talking about Jessica anymore we are talking about the inside of the industry. YES comments should be blown off but just look at celebrities now, how many seem SUPER comfortable? That takes years.
If that's the truth (which it is), then yes. The only reason I clarified my feelings on the subject is that you misinterpreted my words ("You don't think that Media plays a part as to why celebrities & not have a skewed idea of what is healthy &/or not?" when I had already said "I didn't say that they don't play a part, I just said that they are not responsible/to blame for celebrities getting too thin. It's a fine line, but there is a difference."). When someone misunderstands or misquotes me, I clarify myself. That is our job as communicative creatures.

Yep, I've moved on from Jessica, because that's where the discussion went on its own. People were already talking about the responsibility of the media before then, and other people (including you) made comments that I felt were an inaccurate representation of the industry - since I do have some experience in that area, why not attempt to set the record straight?

One of my pet peeves is having things be blamed on people/entities/products/etc. when they are not clearly responsible (either solely or even partly). While you and everyone else may be aware that the media and industry are not "100% responsible" (as you are alluding to), when I read statements like "Oh yeah, hollywood and the paparazzos are evil" I do feel that there's a little extra blame being tossed around. (No offense intended, tlh, I know it was a casual statement
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)
 

musey

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Date: 2/2/2009 5:29:11 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I do have a little knowledge in the industry myself which, comes from my sister who is enjoying success in it.
Good to know. Though I must say that having a friend or family member in this industry (or most other industries, for that matter) is not the same as experiencing it yourself. I know that pretty much no one around me "gets it" unless they're involved themselves.

Your sister's experience, from your limited descriptions of it, sounds to be outside of the ordinary to me. The pressure to mold oneself to fit expectations of any industry professional should decrease with increased success, not the other way around. This is a hot topic amongst my industry friends, and it's always uniformly agreed upon that the pressure in this area is worst at the beginning and gets easier and easier with time, experience, and increased clout. That tends to also hold true for things like artistic freedom. It's simply a logical progression as the balance of power begins to shift more in our favor.
 

VegasAngel

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Date: 2/2/2009 5:36:28 PM
Author: musey


Date: 2/2/2009 5:29:11 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I do have a little knowledge in the industry myself which, comes from my sister who is enjoying success in it.
Good to know. Though I must say that having a friend or family member in this industry (or most other industries, for that matter) is not the same as experiencing it yourself. I know that pretty much no one around me 'gets it' unless they're involved themselves.

Your sister's experience, from your limited descriptions of it, sounds to be outside of the ordinary to me. The pressure to mold oneself to fit expectations of any industry professional should decrease with increased success, not the other way around. This is a hot topic amongst my industry friends, and it's always uniformly agreed upon that the pressure in this area is worst at the beginning and gets easier and easier with time, experience, and increased clout.

Uh, ok.

I said "YES comments should be blown off but just look at celebrities now, how many seem SUPER comfortable? That takes years." goes into "The pressure to mold oneself to fit expectations of any industry professional should decrease with increased success" Why do so many celebs have drug & alcohol addiction, eating disorders? I never even mentioned specifics regarding my sister.

 

Italiahaircolor

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Date: 2/2/2009 5:36:28 PM
Author: musey

Date: 2/2/2009 5:29:11 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I do have a little knowledge in the industry myself which, comes from my sister who is enjoying success in it.
Good to know. Though I must say that having a friend or family member in this industry (or most other industries, for that matter) is not the same as experiencing it yourself. I know that pretty much no one around me ''gets it'' unless they''re involved themselves.

Your sister''s experience, from your limited descriptions of it, sounds to be outside of the ordinary to me. The pressure to mold oneself to fit expectations of any industry professional should decrease with increased success, not the other way around. This is a hot topic amongst my industry friends, and it''s always uniformly agreed upon that the pressure in this area is worst at the beginning and gets easier and easier with time, experience, and increased clout. That tends to also hold true for things like artistic freedom. It''s simply a logical progression as the balance of power begins to shift more in our favor.
Okay, as someone who works behind the scenes...in "the" industry...there is a huge demand put on woman to fit a predetermined vision of beauty. And whatever you think you''re seeing on a magazine cover or print, it''s so far from reality...and, if what I''ve read is truthfully you''re standards when it comes to health or beauty...then no one is healthy, and no one is beautiful.

Outside of my day job, I do freelance makeup artistry for television, film, and print. I feel like I have been really exposed to the ugly side of pretty in what I do. I wish I could share with you the insanity of some of the requests made of me when it comes to working with certain girls. I have been given instruction to contour a girl--who is a every day size 8--in order to give her sunken cheeks and a taunt neck. She''s a size 8 and darn near 6 feet tall...heroin chic isn''t a good look on anyone!! I''ve been asked to use face-lift thread on a 26 year old...

The "industry" sets an unreal standard...some people can achieve it, and live happily in the mix...but for most women, to maintain that would be suicide...looking Hollywood heathly doesn''t mean you''re real world healthy.
 

musey

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Date: 2/2/2009 5:46:28 PM
Author: VegasAngel
Date: 2/2/2009 5:36:28 PM
Author: musey
Date: 2/2/2009 5:29:11 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I do have a little knowledge in the industry myself which, comes from my sister who is enjoying success in it.
Good to know. Though I must say that having a friend or family member in this industry (or most other industries, for that matter) is not the same as experiencing it yourself. I know that pretty much no one around me ''gets it'' unless they''re involved themselves.

Your sister''s experience, from your limited descriptions of it, sounds to be outside of the ordinary to me. The pressure to mold oneself to fit expectations of any industry professional should decrease with increased success, not the other way around. This is a hot topic amongst my industry friends, and it''s always uniformly agreed upon that the pressure in this area is worst at the beginning and gets easier and easier with time, experience, and increased clout.
Uh, ok.

I said ''YES comments should be blown off but just look at celebrities now, how many seem SUPER comfortable? That takes years.'' goes into ''The pressure to mold oneself to fit expectations of any industry professional should decrease with increased success'' Why do so many celebs have drug & alcohol addiction, eating disorders? I never even mentioned specifics regarding my sister.
I know you didn''t, and I didn''t intend to infer that you did - that''s why I qualified with "Your sister''s experience, from your limited descriptions of it, sounds to be outside of the ordinary to me."

I made the assumption in the paragraph that followed based on:

Date: 2/2/2009 5:29:11 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I do have a little knowledge in the industry myself which, comes from my sister who is enjoying success in it.
So I assumed that the statements you were making about the industry, like:

Date: 2/2/2009 4:39:52 PM
Author: VegasAngel
Not sure where you are in your career but the pressures willl get harder.

and

Date: 2/2/2009 3:49:37 PM
Author: VegasAngel
When my sister started acting & modeling her manager said that if she wanted to look & be ''Professional'' she would need to drop 10-15lbs cant remember which. She is/was already skinny. In her pictures & videos she looks small but ok in real life she looks
emotion-41.gif
... were based upon the knowledge gained from your sister.

From that I got that your sister started out getting pressure from her manager to lose weight, and that the "pressures got harder" in her situation.

Regardless, I was primarily reacting to your statement that "the pressures will get harder," which I have found not to be true. I used your sister''s situation (which I now understand must have been inaccurate, but the only conclusion I could draw from what you''d written) to illustrate how my, and everyone''s that I''ve spoken with, situation is different.

Again, like I said in my disclaimer, this is not a conversation that I feel emotional about or intend to cause any offense, it''s just my own experience and opinion (I write this in regards to your "Uh, ok" which I read as possible annoyance).
 

Italiahaircolor

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Date: 2/2/2009 6:06:00 PM
Author: VegasAngel
not really worth my time. When you hit it big or already have, let us know.
That wasn''t very nice...
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...I think that both of you ladies made really valuable points, and I hate to see that be overshadowed by snarky remarks...
 

musey

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Sep 30, 2006
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11,242
Date: 2/2/2009 6:01:51 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
Date: 2/2/2009 5:36:28 PM
Author: musey
Date: 2/2/2009 5:29:11 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I do have a little knowledge in the industry myself which, comes from my sister who is enjoying success in it.
Good to know. Though I must say that having a friend or family member in this industry (or most other industries, for that matter) is not the same as experiencing it yourself. I know that pretty much no one around me 'gets it' unless they're involved themselves.

Your sister's experience, from your limited descriptions of it, sounds to be outside of the ordinary to me. The pressure to mold oneself to fit expectations of any industry professional should decrease with increased success, not the other way around. This is a hot topic amongst my industry friends, and it's always uniformly agreed upon that the pressure in this area is worst at the beginning and gets easier and easier with time, experience, and increased clout. That tends to also hold true for things like artistic freedom. It's simply a logical progression as the balance of power begins to shift more in our favor.
Okay, as someone who works behind the scenes...in 'the' industry...there is a huge demand put on woman to fit a predetermined vision of beauty. And whatever you think you're seeing on a magazine cover or print, it's so far from reality...
This is something I'm intimately acquainted with
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and honestly, I don't understand the issue with it if people are being realistic about what they are looking at. It is very widely known that people will look entirely different with effective makeup, lighting and camera angles. If I see a picture of Halle Berry looking extra thin on a magazine cover, my first thought isn't "Oh my gosh, look how much weight she lost, I must go on a diet immediately!" Other than appreciating her natural beauty, I'll fully realize that what I'm looking at is a somewhat blank canvas (Halle) with makeup, lighting effects, flattering camera angles and post-production (photoshop) applied. The cover is a cover, which Halle played a part in. It's not Halle.

ETA: I do realize that not everyone does or can do that, but I do think that it's the best/most realistic way to look at such things, and wish that everyone would
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and, if what I've read is truthfully you're standards when it comes to health or beauty...then no one is healthy, and no one is beautiful.
I'm not sure why you'd think that. I don't remember what I said about beauty (I'll go try to look), but in my own opinion, beauty has nothing to do with size. In fact, one of the women who makes me "swoon" every time is Queen Latifah. Who is, by the way, quite healthy.

I don't think my standards for "health" are honestly all that high. All I have said on that subject is that to me, someone is "healthy" if they are at their body's comfortably maintained weight while eating well and exercising (and I'll go ahead and add not polluting their body with excess amounts of alcohol or drugs). For someone like Queen Latifah, that ends up being a larger size than someone like me, because our bodies are so naturally different.

Echoing back to the original subject, no I do not think that Jessica's Daisy Duke size was healthy. Sure, she looked lovely, but she also looked uncomfortably thin. She was doing great during the early 'Newlyweds' days, when she was taking care of herself but not on a short leash. That's when she looked her most beautiful, to me.

Outside of my day job, I do freelance makeup artistry for television, film, and print. I feel like I have been really exposed to the ugly side of pretty in what I do. I wish I could share with you the insanity of some of the requests made of me when it comes to working with certain girls. I have been given instruction to contour a girl--who is a every day size 8--in order to give her sunken cheeks and a taunt neck. She's a size 8 and darn near 6 feet tall...heroin chic isn't a good look on anyone!! I've been asked to use face-lift thread on a 26 year old...
I still don't believe that there's any "standard" set by the industry. That's impossible to say, when there are successful size 00s as well as successful size 16s. All I ever hear (outside of auditions, where again the comments are not about me or what I should look like, they're about what they're looking for for any particular role) is that people should maintain what feels the best to them, and ignore everything else.
 

musey

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
11,242
Date: 2/2/2009 6:06:00 PM
Author: VegasAngel
not really worth my time.
Vegas, I'm sorry to have insulted you, I was attempting to explain (in my last post) where any misinterpretation may have occurred. I will be (and have been) the first to apologize if I've unintentionally twisted someone's words. The entire point of the post that apparently offended you was just to help you understand my thought process and give you the opportunity to correct me where I was wrong, that's all. Not to pick your words apart in the least.

I'm surprised, since I kept saying that this is not a *personal* discussion to me, that you would take anything I've said so personally.

When you hit it big or already have, let us know.
I'm not sure what that has to do with this conversation, really. "Hitting it big" doesn't necessarily give someone special insight into the industry. I have a friend whose face has recently been plastered all over magazines, and she's and I talk about this stuff all the time. One of us is not more knowledgeable than the other simply by having had more high-profile work.

Oh, and as a side note, I don't plan to ever "hit it big" if I can help it. I'm in this industry because I enjoy the work and find it fulfilling, but I have no interest in celebrity. There are lots of actors who make a killer living throughout their entire lives, without ever being recognizable enough that you'd even give them a second look.
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musey

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
11,242
Date: 2/2/2009 6:10:05 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
Date: 2/2/2009 6:06:00 PM

Author: VegasAngel

not really worth my time. When you hit it big or already have, let us know.
That wasn't very nice...
emembarrassed.gif
...I think that both of you ladies made really valuable points, and I hate to see that be overshadowed by snarky remarks...
Thanks Italia
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I've been trying to be as straightforward and impersonal about this as possible, but it's hard to communicate that frame of mind to others who view weight and appearance as a very personal issue.
 

Loves Vintage

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
4,568
Date: 2/2/2009 6:19:31 PM
Author: musey


Date: 2/2/2009 6:01:51 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor


Date: 2/2/2009 5:36:28 PM
Author: musey


Date: 2/2/2009 5:29:11 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I do have a little knowledge in the industry myself which, comes from my sister who is enjoying success in it.
Good to know. Though I must say that having a friend or family member in this industry (or most other industries, for that matter) is not the same as experiencing it yourself. I know that pretty much no one around me ''gets it'' unless they''re involved themselves.

Your sister''s experience, from your limited descriptions of it, sounds to be outside of the ordinary to me. The pressure to mold oneself to fit expectations of any industry professional should decrease with increased success, not the other way around. This is a hot topic amongst my industry friends, and it''s always uniformly agreed upon that the pressure in this area is worst at the beginning and gets easier and easier with time, experience, and increased clout. That tends to also hold true for things like artistic freedom. It''s simply a logical progression as the balance of power begins to shift more in our favor.
Okay, as someone who works behind the scenes...in ''the'' industry...there is a huge demand put on woman to fit a predetermined vision of beauty. And whatever you think you''re seeing on a magazine cover or print, it''s so far from reality...

This is something I''m intimately acquainted with
2.gif
and honestly, I don''t understand the issue with it if people are being realistic about what they are looking at. It is very widely known that people will look entirely different with effective makeup, lighting and camera angles. If I see a picture of Halle Berry looking extra thin on a magazine cover, my first thought isn''t ''Oh my gosh, look how much weight she lost, I must go on a diet immediately!'' Other than appreciating her natural beauty, I''ll fully realize that what I''m looking at is a somewhat blank canvas (Halle) with makeup, lighting effects, flattering camera angles and post-production (photoshop) applied. The cover is a cover, which Halle played a part in. It''s not Halle.

Unfortunately, 12 year old girls do not think this way, nor would they even be capable of making such distinctions, unless they were specifically taught to do so. I am certain that many adults don''t make this distinction either. Many people do believe they are seeing what they see.

Perhaps one day we''ll have disclaimers in fine print on magazine covers.
 

musey

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
11,242
LV - that would certainly be nice (that was what I was alluding to with my "eta", that I do realize that not everyone does or can do that, but I do think that it''s the best/most realistic way to look at such things, and wish that everyone would).

My discussion of the media''s affects were in relation to people in the industry, though, not the general population. So when I say that I don''t believe the media/industry is responsible for weight and health issues, I''m speaking purely about people who work in the entertainment industry.
 

Loves Vintage

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
4,568
Date: 2/2/2009 6:40:37 PM
Author: musey
LV - that would certainly be nice (that was what I was alluding to with my ''eta'', that I do realize that not everyone does or can do that, but I do think that it''s the best/most realistic way to look at such things, and wish that everyone would).

My discussion of the media''s affects were in relation to people in the industry, though, not the general population. So when I say that I don''t believe the media/industry is responsible for weight and health issues, I''m speaking purely about people who work in the entertainment industry.
Oops, I posted at the same time you were eta''ing.

You''ve certaily added a lot to this discussion, Musey!
 

musey

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
11,242
Date: 2/2/2009 6:43:10 PM
Author: Loves Vintage
Date: 2/2/2009 6:40:37 PM
Author: musey
LV - that would certainly be nice (that was what I was alluding to with my 'eta', that I do realize that not everyone does or can do that, but I do think that it's the best/most realistic way to look at such things, and wish that everyone would).

My discussion of the media's affects were in relation to people in the industry, though, not the general population. So when I say that I don't believe the media/industry is responsible for weight and health issues, I'm speaking purely about people who work in the entertainment industry.
Oops, I posted at the same time you were eta'ing.
I do that a lot! I'm like Meg Ryan in You've Got Mail - I never think of the correct thing to say until the correct moment has passed. In this case I only think of how to clarify what I've said after I've already posted. I've even spent EXTRA time proofreading to try to avoid that, but it never fails!! I always think of something I have to add in to clarify!

You've certaily added a lot to this discussion, Musey!
I hope that it's not just annoying (at least not to everyone). I don't mean to preach what I think as fact or take it too off-topic (though I do think it's somewhat relevant to the original topic), I just know that it's something that I have learned a LOT about in the past few years, and my own opinions on the subject have drastically changed now that I'm seeing how it works from the inside out. I figured my experience backed by that of the people I know has at least a little bit to offer.
 
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