JAMES ALLEN admits lousy ASET machinery

[diagem]

Another issue with Glass tops with the stone facing down is that the glass affects the low angle green.
My hand held device (that is also the component in the AGS desk top viewer) are relatively small and so the results from identically proportioned 5mm diamond are different to that for a 10mm diamond.

Good point Garry, so most devices/viewers are aimed towards the smaller sizes, what happens if someone needs it for a 10mm+ size?
Important question (to you and/or Sergey)..., does DiBox take this limitation into account? What will be the max size effectiveness with DiBox?

Yoram,

we use very big Hemisphere for ASET light in Dibox . So diamonds with diameters in range 5-10 mm give quite similar Dibox photos.

Thanx Sergey,

My main concern is crown heights..., the Aset devices I am using hate tall CH..., it dominates with low angle green...

 

[Serg]

Another issue with Glass tops with the stone facing down is that the glass affects the low angle green.
My hand held device (that is also the component in the AGS desk top viewer) are relatively small and so the results from identically proportioned 5mm diamond are different to that for a 10mm diamond.

Good point Garry, so most devices/viewers are aimed towards the smaller sizes, what happens if someone needs it for a 10mm+ size?
Important question (to you and/or Sergey)..., does DiBox take this limitation into account? What will be the max size effectiveness with DiBox?

Yoram,

we use very big Hemisphere for ASET light in Dibox . So diamonds with diameters in range 5-10 mm give quite similar Dibox photos.

Thanx Sergey,

My main concern is crown heights..., the Aset devices I am using hate tall CH..., it dominates with low angle green...

Yoram,
1)Diamond size, crown height, diamond positions are very important if ASET has small size because in such case even small shift may change color zone .

If ASET has infinite size then diamond size , Crown size, shift does not change anything ( only direction works)

We can not use ASET with infinite size in real life( in Diamcalc we may do it). But even if ASET has diameter 150 mm it significantly increases consistency ( results depends more from proportions than from linear sizes)
2) May be Even ASET with infinite diameter gives a lot of green for your sample with Tall CH. I need 3D model or at least proportions to check it.

 

[diagem]

Another issue with Glass tops with the stone facing down is that the glass affects the low angle green.
My hand held device (that is also the component in the AGS desk top viewer) are relatively small and so the results from identically proportioned 5mm diamond are different to that for a 10mm diamond.

Good point Garry, so most devices/viewers are aimed towards the smaller sizes, what happens if someone needs it for a 10mm+ size?
Important question (to you and/or Sergey)..., does DiBox take this limitation into account? What will be the max size effectiveness with DiBox?

Yoram,

we use very big Hemisphere for ASET light in Dibox . So diamonds with diameters in range 5-10 mm give quite similar Dibox photos.

Thanx Sergey,

My main concern is crown heights..., the Aset devices I am using hate tall CH..., it dominates with low angle green...

Yoram,
1)Diamond size, crown height, diamond positions are very important if ASET has small size because in such case even small shift may change color zone .

If ASET has infinite size then diamond size , Crown size, shift does not change anything ( only direction works)

We can not use ASET with infinite size in real life( in Diamcalc we may do it). But even if ASET has diameter 150 mm it significantly increases consistency ( results depends more from proportions than from linear sizes)
2) May be Even ASET with infinite diameter gives a lot of green for your sample with Tall CH. I need 3D model or at least proportions to check it.

Sorry Sergey, i didn't mention this phenomena is happening to me only on the glass top model. The hand held is fine as long as I am in the <2 carat range.
It happened on the Octavia models (amongst others), I have no problem sending a 3D model of it.

 

[Serg]

Another issue with Glass tops with the stone facing down is that the glass affects the low angle green.
My hand held device (that is also the component in the AGS desk top viewer) are relatively small and so the results from identically proportioned 5mm diamond are different to that for a 10mm diamond.

Good point Garry, so most devices/viewers are aimed towards the smaller sizes, what happens if someone needs it for a 10mm+ size?
Important question (to you and/or Sergey)..., does DiBox take this limitation into account? What will be the max size effectiveness with DiBox?

Yoram,

we use very big Hemisphere for ASET light in Dibox . So diamonds with diameters in range 5-10 mm give quite similar Dibox photos.

Thanx Sergey,

My main concern is crown heights..., the Aset devices I am using hate tall CH..., it dominates with low angle green...

Yoram,
1)Diamond size, crown height, diamond positions are very important if ASET has small size because in such case even small shift may change color zone .

If ASET has infinite size then diamond size , Crown size, shift does not change anything ( only direction works)

We can not use ASET with infinite size in real life( in Diamcalc we may do it). But even if ASET has diameter 150 mm it significantly increases consistency ( results depends more from proportions than from linear sizes)
2) May be Even ASET with infinite diameter gives a lot of green for your sample with Tall CH. I need 3D model or at least proportions to check it.

Sorry Sergey, i didn't mention this phenomena is happening to me only on the glass top model. The hand held is fine as long as I am in the <2 carat range.
It happened on the Octavia models (amongst others), I have no problem sending a 3D model of it.

Yoram,
what are ASET maximum diameter and Height in the glass top model?

 

[diagem]

Sergey, it's their (I think discontinued) old desk top / glass top model.

Bottom of the page: http://www.goodoldgold.com/Technologies/ReflectorTechnologies/TheVariousReflectorsontheMarketToday/

I use it for my own reference (I know it's limitation).

 

[Serg]

re:Bottom of the page: http://www.goodoldgold.com/Technologies/ReflectorTechnologies/TheVariousReflectorsontheMarketToday/



IF developers did not account glass thickness then they significantly increase angular size of green zone .
Glass looks very thick ( 2-4 mm) + Crown height. ( for big diamonds with tall CH) , total vertical shift may be 5-6 mm.
if max diameter ASET is 100mm and it is cone with 45 degree then such vertical shift increase green zone angle( boundary between green and red zones) from 45 degree up to 50 degree roughly. in same time it is reduce red zone. So you will see more green in diamond specially in big diamonds and in big diamonds with big crown height .

 

[diagem]

re:Bottom of the page: http://www.goodoldgold.com/Technologies/ReflectorTechnologies/TheVariousReflectorsontheMarketToday/



IF developers did not account glass thickness then they significantly increase angular size of green zone .
Glass looks very thick ( 2-4 mm) + Crown height. ( for big diamonds with tall CH) , total vertical shift may be 5-6 mm.
if max diameter ASET is 100mm and it is cone with 45 degree then such vertical shift increase green zone angle( boundary between green and red zones) from 45 degree up to 50 degree roughly. in same time it is reduce red zone. So you will see more green in diamond specially in big diamonds and in big diamonds with big crown height .

Exactly!!! And balancing the Diamond on its culet in one coned hole is also becoming a challenge.
Glass top makes more sense but to dependable on outside variables.
Almost as compliacted as shaping assymetrical shapes as cushion shapes (as example).

Challenges, challenges....

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Another issue with Glass tops with the stone facing down is that the glass affects the low angle green.
My hand held device (that is also the component in the AGS desk top viewer) are relatively small and so the results from identically proportioned 5mm diamond are different to that for a 10mm diamond.

Good point Garry, so most devices/viewers are aimed towards the smaller sizes, what happens if someone needs it for a 10mm+ size?
Important question (to you and/or Sergey)..., does DiBox take this limitation into account? What will be the max size effectiveness with DiBox?

Yoram,

we use very big Hemisphere for ASET light in Dibox . So diamonds with diameters in range 5-10 mm give quite similar Dibox photos.

Thanx Sergey,

My main concern is crown heights..., the Aset devices I am using hate tall CH..., it dominates with low angle green...

The bowl size is 14cm diameter (nearly 6 inches) as opposed to the hand held at 3.5cm. In addition the shape of the bowl was chosen after a lot of experimentation and is slightly parabolic and returns light very evenly as shown in one of the test shots here. Because the set up is not a cone the distance to the critical border of the red green is a lot further away and I doubt you would have a problem with the reuslts Yoram.

 

[diagem]

Another issue with Glass tops with the stone facing down is that the glass affects the low angle green.
My hand held device (that is also the component in the AGS desk top viewer) are relatively small and so the results from identically proportioned 5mm diamond are different to that for a 10mm diamond.

Good point Garry, so most devices/viewers are aimed towards the smaller sizes, what happens if someone needs it for a 10mm+ size?
Important question (to you and/or Sergey)..., does DiBox take this limitation into account? What will be the max size effectiveness with DiBox?

Yoram,

we use very big Hemisphere for ASET light in Dibox . So diamonds with diameters in range 5-10 mm give quite similar Dibox photos.

Thanx Sergey,

My main concern is crown heights..., the Aset devices I am using hate tall CH..., it dominates with low angle green...

The bowl size is 14cm diameter (nearly 6 inches) as opposed to the hand held at 3.5cm. In addition the shape of the bowl was chosen after a lot of experimentation and is slightly parabolic and returns light very evenly as shown in one of the test shots here. Because the set up is not a cone the distance to the critical border of the red green is a lot further away and I doubt you would have a problem with the reuslts Yoram.

Thanx Garry & Sergey,

I wonder if tests could be run on DiBox with some 3D models?
I do notice the inner circle (of dotted lights) on the test shot is a bit lopsided (lower right side at 5PM). I wonder if that wouldn't change things? Or am I being to strict?

 

[Serg]

Another issue with Glass tops with the stone facing down is that the glass affects the low angle green.
My hand held device (that is also the component in the AGS desk top viewer) are relatively small and so the results from identically proportioned 5mm diamond are different to that for a 10mm diamond.

Good point Garry, so most devices/viewers are aimed towards the smaller sizes, what happens if someone needs it for a 10mm+ size?
Important question (to you and/or Sergey)..., does DiBox take this limitation into account? What will be the max size effectiveness with DiBox?

Yoram,

we use very big Hemisphere for ASET light in Dibox . So diamonds with diameters in range 5-10 mm give quite similar Dibox photos.

Thanx Sergey,

My main concern is crown heights..., the Aset devices I am using hate tall CH..., it dominates with low angle green...

The bowl size is 14cm diameter (nearly 6 inches) as opposed to the hand held at 3.5cm. In addition the shape of the bowl was chosen after a lot of experimentation and is slightly parabolic and returns light very evenly as shown in one of the test shots here. Because the set up is not a cone the distance to the critical border of the red green is a lot further away and I doubt you would have a problem with the reuslts Yoram.

Thanx Garry & Sergey,

I wonder if tests could be run on DiBox with some 3D models?
I do notice the inner circle (of dotted lights) on the test shot is a bit lopsided (lower right side at 5PM). I wonder if that wouldn't change things? Or am I being to strict?

Yoram,

re:I wonder if tests could be run on DiBox with some 3D models?

what do you mean? To receive photo of a diamond in Dibox we need the diamond.

re:I do notice the inner circle (of dotted lights) on the test shot is a bit lopsided (lower right side at 5PM). I wonder if that wouldn't change things? Or am I being to strict?

It is not a photo of any Dibox light environment.

 

[diagem]

Yoram,

re:I wonder if tests could be run on DiBox with some 3D models?

what do you mean? To receive photo of a diamond in Dibox we need the diamond.

re:I do notice the inner circle (of dotted lights) on the test shot is a bit lopsided (lower right side at 5PM). I wonder if that wouldn't change things? Or am I being to strict?

It is not a photo of any Dibox light environment.

Silly me, I thought perhaps you could mimic the environment and apply it to a 3D model to see how the ASET color interpretation could look like...

Sounds too far ahead...

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Yoram,

re:I do notice the inner circle (of dotted lights) on the test shot is a bit lopsided (lower right side at 5PM). I wonder if that wouldn't change things? Or am I being to strict?

It is not a photo of any Dibox light environment.

Silly me, I thought perhaps you could mimic the environment and apply it to a 3D model to see how the ASET color interpretation could look like...

Sounds too far ahead...

Hi Yoram,
Yes, it is possible to model real world lighting in DiamCalc. We have done it with a HDR photo of a diamond viewing position at one desk in my store. We used an advanced 180 degree fish eye lens on a tripod pointing to the ceiling and then to the desk.
We took about a dozen exposures to capture the High Dynamic Range (HDR) for the lighting environment and if you or anyone would like it I can send it to you.

Regarding the red photo I took, poseted above, the shiny reflector that I used was a ball from the end of a chrome plated tap, and it is not perfectly hemispherical. But it was only to test the evenness of the light return across the entire 180 degrees of the hemisphere.

 

[Serg]

Yoram,

re:I do notice the inner circle (of dotted lights) on the test shot is a bit lopsided (lower right side at 5PM). I wonder if that wouldn't change things? Or am I being to strict?

It is not a photo of any Dibox light environment.

Silly me, I thought perhaps you could mimic the environment and apply it to a 3D model to see how the ASET color interpretation could look like...

Sounds too far ahead...

Hi Yoram,
Yes, it is possible to model real world lighting in DiamCalc. We have done it with a HDR photo of a diamond viewing position at one desk in my store. We used an advanced 180 degree fish eye lens on a tripod pointing to the ceiling and then to the desk.
We took about a dozen exposures to capture the High Dynamic Range (HDR) for the lighting environment and if you or anyone would like it I can send it to you.

Regarding the red photo I took, poseted above, the shiny reflector that I used was a ball from the end of a chrome plated tap, and it is not perfectly hemispherical. But it was only to test the evenness of the light return across the entire 180 degrees of the hemisphere.

Dear Garry,

re:"Yes, it is possible to model real world lighting in DiamCalc. We have done it with a HDR photo of a diamond viewing position at one desk in my store. We used an advanced 180 degree fish eye lens on a tripod pointing to the ceiling and then to the desk.
We took about a dozen exposures to capture the High Dynamic Range (HDR) for the lighting environment and if you or anyone would like it I can send it to you."

It can not work well for Dibox Lights. Standard Photo Fisheye lens are too big for Dibox