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Is this a good Radiant Cut Diamond ??? PLEASE HELPPPPP

JustinVu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
78
Thank you DS2006 and Gypsy,

Obviously a very good, detailed experience for me to follow and learn from.

Actually I'm doing all this because my gf has never trusted me completely. While she's loved me unconditionally, she's already worried being cheated, feeling jealous because I often treat other girls very kindly. I don't know how to help her with that but I do know I don't want her to feel the same way now when we're married. Hopefully by the time I've proposed her, she can read this whole thread and think for herself how much I care.

Anyway, I've sent my request to purchase the diamond from whiteflash to all jewelers in Sydney, Australia and none of them can help me facilitating the purchase (expected), except I'm still waiting my current jeweler to answer. In case they can't, I've narrowed down to the below stones (from the jeweler) with very strictly limited parameters. The only thing is there is no ideal-scope nor aset images which I might have to request from them.

But the stats seem to add up ok.
ROUND BRILLIANT - $11,080 USD (tax free)

Measurements 6.86 - 6.88 x 4.22 mm
Carat Weight 1.22 carat
Color Grade F
Clarity Grade VS1
Cut Grade Excellent ; HCA score 1.4 EX - EX - VG - VG

PROPORTIONS
Depth 61.4 % Table 57 % Crown Angle 34.0° Crown Height 14.5% Pavilion Angle 41.0° Pavilion Depth 43.5% Star Length 50% Lower Half 80% Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.5% Culet None

or this one - $10,510 USD (tax-free)

Measurements 6.81 - 6.83 x 4.19 mm
Carat Weight 1.20 carat
Color Grade F
Clarity Grade VS2
Cut Grade Excellent - HCA Score 1.5 EX EX EX VG

PROPORTIONS
Depth 61.5 % Table 58 % Crown Angle 34.5° Crown Height 14.5% Pavilion Angle 40.8° Pavilion Depth 43.0% Star Length 50% Lower Half
80% Girdle Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0% Culet None

Not as good as my previous one but at least that's something my jeweler can access and I don't have to pay tax.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
You both sound so young. I really don't mean that in a condescending way, as tone doesn't come across very well on here. And I am on my phone as my computer appears to be possessed by demons at the moment.

Relationships are WORK. But... at the same time, there has to be a balance. Sometimes you are both working hard on it, sometimes one of you has more bandwidth and the other less, and then the next thing you know the reverse is true. And sometimes you wake up realize that you've given all you can and its never going to be enough or you aren't getting what you need back, and you know you have to walk away.

All you can do is your best everyday. Some days that's a LOT. Some days its all you can do too put one step in front of the other. Be kind to each other and to yourselves.

You can't force trust. Because it's not one sided. It's two sided. You do what you can to secure it and be worthy of it. But the other person has to open themselves to it and be willing to have faith and be vulnerable. And that's out of your control. So do your best, and it will be enough or it won't. But it won't be for lack of effort on your part, and that's all you can do.

As for the diamonds I'd like idealscope images but I like the numbers on the second better at first glance.
 

JustinVu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
78
Gypsy|1467187672|4049579 said:
You both sound so young. I really don't mean that in a condescending way, as tone doesn't come across very well on here. And I am on my phone as my computer appears to be possessed by demons at the moment.

Relationships are WORK. But... at the same time, there has to be a balance. Sometimes you are both working hard on it, sometimes one of you has more bandwidth and the other less, and then the next thing you know the reverse is true. And sometimes you wake up realize that you've given all you can and its never going to be enough or you aren't getting what you need back, and you know you have to walk away.

All you can do is your best everyday. Some days that's a LOT. Some days its all you can do too put one step in front of the other. Be kind to each other and to yourselves.

You can't force trust. Because it's not one sided. It's two sided. You do what you can to secure it and be worthy of it. But the other person has to open themselves to it and be willing to have faith and be vulnerable. And that's out of your control. So do your best, and it will be enough or it won't. But it won't be for lack of effort on your part, and that's all you can do.

As for the diamonds I'd like idealscope images but I like the numbers on the second better at first glance.
I'm 26 and she's 23 haha. She's never had to worry about a thing in her life, from being spoilt by family at early age up until being looked after by me. That's why her "me" is very vulnerable to any external damages, specially emotional.

My philosophy is exactly like you said, do your best, never regret and God will do the rest. If things don't work out, be willing to walk away. and I very much understand that trust is two sided and require both persons' effort. That's why I'm doing this to compensate those fluffy wordy romance that I can't give her just simply because that's not who I am. I strongly believe actions speak louder than words.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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I knew the jewelers there couldn't access the WF stone because they are not diamond suppliers. They are a retailer who sells diamonds directly to customers.

The measurements on the second stone you listed are very good and least risky. However, I would never buy a GIA VS2 blind. I think because of the cultural expectations, you need to keep clarity at VS1 or higher (but VS1 is great).

Tell them to keep looking at VS1, E-F. Measurements like the second diamond, preferably.

All you wrote about trust really reinforces what we were telling you about listening to her desires. That is what builds trust in one area. An outstanding round diamond in a platinum setting is going to show her that you listened rather than going with what you liked. Smart man.
 

JustinVu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
78
I've just spoken with my jeweler and they seemed to be a bit ambiguous which I wasn't very impressed. They kept pressing on how they don't usually bring in the radiant, and they often require 50% but they agreed on $1k deposit as a good faith.

They still haven't told me how much I'd lose if I change. They just said they will see if we lock in a round diamond and they will calculate the total sum. I assume the cost for not going ahead with the radiant diamond can't be more than just the delivery + insurance fees two ways. they can't charge me for their consultation times as I'm still committing to buy from them.

Anyway, they admitted they will send through some other diamonds and will cross check to see if they can help me purchase the whiteflash diamond (doubt it). For the time being, I've found myself a very nice stone as below:

Diamond: 1.20ct 3EX E VS1 (GIA)
- Price: $15,901 incl GST or $14,455 excl GST (AUD)
- Other specs: HCA score 0.8 EX EX EX VG; table 58%, depth 60.8%, crown angle 34% and pavilion angle 40.6%, none cutlet.

Everything is dead set within the recommended parameters and it's VS1 with very little inclusions:

final_choice.jpg
final_choice_2.jpg

I'm happy to go ahead if you guys are :love: :love:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I like the stone.

And BOOOO on the store being difficult.

I thought you said they have radiants all over the place?

Do you have any paperwork about the deposit? A receipt? Something with terms.
 

JustinVu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
78
Gypsy|1467267881|4049982 said:
I like the stone.

And BOOOO on the store being difficult.

I thought you said they have radiants all over the place?

Do you have any paperwork about the deposit? A receipt? Something with terms.
They have many radiants, but they said the one I picked would be hard to sell and that's not smth they usually keep (D VS1) so they need to see if a buy back is available.

I don't understand why there should be a buy back lol. They make it sound like I need to spend a decent amount of $$ to make up the difference because they 'are suffering some loss??"

As for the deposit, there is no terms about how much I'd lose or that deposit is not refundable for change of mind etc.
Edit: found this on their website so it looks like things are in my favor:

What is your return policy?
To secure diamonds on your behalf Diamond Emporium requires a 50% deposit of the diamond cost.
In the rare event that you are not satisfied with the diamond, the deposit you have paid is fully refundable.
Once the diamond is viewed in our offices and you are satisfied with it, we would appreciate the remainder of the diamond cost to be paid within 3 days.
During this 3 day period after you have viewed your diamond, you have the opportunity to exchange or receive a full refund for your diamond purchase.


Will see how things pan out. there might have been a misunderstanding.

But yea, happy to go ahead with the E VS1.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Please tell me you paid with a credit card.

Also, point to their own site. Tell them they needed to spell out any deviation to you in writing BEFOREHAND and that you expect either a full credit toward the EVs2 or a full refund ASAP or you will have to post negative online reviews.

Shady.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Three days. Oh boy. I take it you are over the 3 days. We tell people here thousands of times never to buy a diamond without at LEAST a 10-30 day unconditional return policy. And see, you are paying the GST anyway for them to call in stones. You could have bought from WF. But, it is what it is. We'll have to hope they bend the policies.
 

JustinVu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
78
diamondseeker2006|1467291479|4050050 said:
Three days. Oh boy. I take it you are over the 3 days. We tell people here thousands of times never to buy a diamond without at LEAST a 10-30 day unconditional return policy. And see, you are paying the GST anyway for them to call in stones. You could have bought from WF. But, it is what it is. We'll have to hope they bend the policies.
Hehe, I'm a bit dodgy when it comes to tax. If I was to purchase from WF, the import tax is non-refundable. Conversely, buying from an Australian retailer, I can claim GST once I travel outside autralia within 60 days. The catch for that is i'm not allowed to bring back the item to Australia as it will be considered 'domestic usage'. But no one really declares that, and I can get someone else bringing back the ring anyway.

Back to the diamond now, the jeweler said the stone is not available while I obviously see it available across many other jewelers in Sydney. Other jewelers offer much better pricing, eg: 1 place sells at $15,860 GST incl, another sells for $16,400, but my jeweler sells for a whopping $19,221.

They probably said that because they can't match the price of other dealers and they know even if they offer $18k i'll be walking away. So they offer my another stone, which is quite nice actually. Details are as below:

Diamond: 1.10ct E VS1 GIA 2173639776
Price: $15,650.00inc.GST
HCA: 0.9 EX EX EX VG
Video: http://hdfiles.in/hd.aspx?stoneid=1816680030&sid=127581&rid249348&p=d0153&b=none&a=7&avid=17&acid=0
Other specs: 62.1 depth, 56 table, 35 CA, 40.6PA.

not sure what I should do now :(
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
9,413
Justin, I am sorry that your jeweler is being such a PITA. They are hanging on to your sale like pitbulls. Some posters know how to deal with shady people like this. I am caving in. I am kinda feeling angry. Why are they being so manipulative?

I will let others comment on your stone. I don't trust myself without an ASET.
 

JustinVu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
78
They just sent through a hearts and arrows image for their recommended 1.1ct E VS1.

image007_1.jpg

On their website this E VS1 is listed as $20,900 AUD incl GST (but in their email they said they can sell for $15,650) and my 1.2ct E VS1 is listed as $19,200 incl GST.

Not very consistent.

If not because they've actually spent sometimes and I kinda like their ring design / office / service etc. I'd gone elsewhere. Unfortunately Sydney isn't like what's in the state :(, there are just not many choices :(
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Justin, this is a FANTASTIC stone! Grab it while you can! :appl:

You really are lucky they will make the exchange at this point. When they call in a stone from a supplier from somewhere like NY, they have a limited time to return the stone, and I am sure that explains the three day return policy.
 

BeekeeperBetty

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
272
I'm certainly no round cut expert, but I just wanted to say I'm very excited for you and your girlfriend and I can't wait to see the finished product!

P.S. My husband and I were 22 when we got married and we celebrated 16 years this summer.
 

JustinVu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
78
diamondseeker2006|1467388849|4050485 said:
Justin, this is a FANTASTIC stone! Grab it while you can! :appl:

You really are lucky they will make the exchange at this point. When they call in a stone from a supplier from somewhere like NY, they have a limited time to return the stone, and I am sure that explains the three day return policy.
The jeweller just told me that the 1.2ct E VS1 has been sold (crazily ironic hey, just half a day after i've picked it @[email protected]). But anyway, I think the 1.1ct E VS1 is very nice too, so I'm locking it in on Monday.

I don't think it should be a problem but the report says additional pinpoints, clouds and surface graining is not shown. is that something i should worry about?
getdigitalimage_1.jpg
For the setting, I'm thinking about platinum, coz she likes the feel of the heavier metal, solid and luxurious and 1 of the following 3 styles:
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/charis-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-by-vatche-1658.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/legato-sleek-line-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-1120.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/legato-micro-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-1012.htm

Probably will go for the 1st or 2nd.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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No worries about clarity in VS1 and up. I love the 1.10 stone! I'd get that thing locked in the first minute you can.

Go with the Legato Sleek Line design and have it made to have a 2mm shank. Have no diamonds at the bottom of the shank (5:00-7:00) so the ring can be sized in the future. I assume you mean your jeweler is making it, right?
 

JustinVu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
78
diamondseeker2006|1467466473|4050774 said:
No worries about clarity in VS1 and up. I love the 1.10 stone! I'd get that thing locked in the first minute you can.

Go with the Legato Sleek Line design and have it made to have a 2mm shank. Have no diamonds at the bottom of the shank (5:00-7:00) so the ring can be sized in the future. I assume you mean your jeweler is making it, right?
I'm locking it in today, coz the exchange rate has had a good run since Friday lol.

as for the setting, I know you're Legato sleek line's biggest fan Ds2006 lol (I can see every single thread about that setting has your comments in it haha). I think I am too. Just not sure if I should ditch the round bit at the bottom of the center stone (not sure why it's even there) and add milgrain to the pave to add some vintage touch.

and should I go 2mm shank all the way or 2.1mm bottom half and tapered from there to the top to draws more attention to the center stone? and what's the best prong type to be hardly visible (as small as possible) and still strong enough to hold the diamond ? I don't think I would go anything complicated like double prong so would keep that simple, perhaps eagle claw ?

There's a whole thread about whether to add milgrain or not and it looks pretty good.
myring1339.jpg
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Absolutely leave that little circle (doughnut). It keeps the wedding band from rubbing the whole e-ring shank and it helps protect the prongs from being rubbed by the wedding band.

I would say to have the ring made exactly like the one in the picture. 2 or 2.1 mm all the way around but tapering in near the stone. I love the milgrain and would add that if I were having the ring made for myself. In fact, my wedding band is made like that and I would think a wedding band made to match the shank of the e-ring would look great! I also love how the milgrain comes to a point at the end of the diamonds on the lower shank.

Yes, that is one of my favorite solitaire settings! Very classic and elegant!
 

JustinVu

Rough_Rock
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Messages
78
I've shopped around with few other jewelers and some got back to me with the same stone at even better price - $14,400 GST incl which is another 5-6% cheaper. I'm pressuring them to price match or I'm leaving.

That's the good news, the bad news is I can't go ahead with the Legato Sleek line Pave from WF. I sneaked into my gf's phone and one of her convo with her friend is that she really loves simple rounded pave setting, no tapering. I'm now looking at Charis Pave' or Harmony Setting - but the original version as featured by Lynn B, as below:

lynn_brandt_0601_b.jpg
reset8.jpg
thereset15.jpg

Let me know if you guys have any other suggestion
 

Gypsy

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That's not bad news. That's just preference. You'll get a gorgeous ring either way for her. You should absolutely go for what she prefers. Good job snooping.
 

JustinVu

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Messages
78
Gypsy|1467699047|4051559 said:
That's not bad news. That's just preference. You'll get a gorgeous ring either way for her. You should absolutely go for what she prefers. Good job snooping.
Haha thanks Gypsy,

So I finally locked the diamond in at $15,100 inc GST which is $700 more than the other dealer. I could take the deposit and leave, but I don't want to, I honestly feel bad if I do that. So I consider that $700 is for the cost of lesson, the experience I've had, the time they've wasted with me being a bit pedantic.

Also I would like to have the name of the ring as 'Diamond Emporium' (my jeweler) rather than "Australian Diamond Broker' as per the other dealer. ROFL :dance: :dance: Definitely sounds more exotic =))
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Whew! That was very fortunate that they allowed you to switch diamonds! Yes, the $700 was worth it considering the situation! Glad you found out more about the setting preferences!
 

JustinVu

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Messages
78
Just a little update here. I'll be seeing the diamond in person next week, Friday. So I will still have sometimes to decide on the setting.

Honestly I'm having such a hard time trying to decide whether it's gonne be a U-shape pave as shown in the Steven Kirsch Destiny setting:
http://stevenkirsch.com/gallery/destiny-two/

or Bright Cut Pave: https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/the-jocelyn-with-scalloped-basket with milgrain,

or same Jocelyn design but without milgrain: https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/the-trueste-with-pave

I'll specifically ask the jeweller whether to see if they can guarantee they can make the milgrain as fine and detailed as pictured. Or otherwise I'll be going with U-cut Pave (shallow).

I know milgrain shows case an antique look but at the same time I know fashion is repetitive. I'm just not sure whether she's gonna like it or not.

Somebody help me to decide :(
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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Those are all lovely! You really can't go wrong. The only thing I wanted to point out is if you're not sure she would love the milgrain, then don't do it. You could always add the milgrain afterwards if you propose and she says she would prefer having it. ;))
 

JustinVu

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Messages
78
That's a good idea actually. Although if I was to add milgrain now, what size of milgrain should I ask the jeweller. As far as i know, milgrain wheel comes in 15 sizes and average is like 6-7.

Does anybody here know what size of milgrain Victor Carnera uses? I'm thinking of 2-3 since his milgrain is so fine and detailed.

Thanks y'all :)
 

diamondseeker2006

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JustinVu|1468279536|4054538 said:
That's a good idea actually. Although if I was to add milgrain now, what size of milgrain should I ask the jeweller. As far as i know, milgrain wheel comes in 15 sizes and average is like 6-7.

Does anybody here know what size of milgrain Victor Carnera uses? I'm thinking of 2-3 since his milgrain is so fine and detailed.

Thanks y'all :)
You do not have to tell an excellent ringmaker what size milgrain. Seriously. If you think you have to tell them that, they are not skilled enough to make the ring. With Steven Kirsch or Victor Canera, you just tell them the style ring and they do the rest. Show your ringmaker one of their own rings that has fine milgrain. That is the best way.

I would either do bright cut with milgrain or u-cut. Both are pretty. Bright cut protects the pave diamonds more.
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
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diamondseeker2006|1468281798|4054546 said:
JustinVu|1468279536|4054538 said:
That's a good idea actually. Although if I was to add milgrain now, what size of milgrain should I ask the jeweller. As far as i know, milgrain wheel comes in 15 sizes and average is like 6-7.

Does anybody here know what size of milgrain Victor Carnera uses? I'm thinking of 2-3 since his milgrain is so fine and detailed.

Thanks y'all :)
You do not have to tell an excellent ringmaker what size milgrain. Seriously. If you think you have to tell them that, they are not skilled enough to make the ring. With Steven Kirsch or Victor Canera, you just tell them the style ring and they do the rest. Show your ringmaker one of their own rings that has fine milgrain. That is the best way.

I would either do bright cut with milgrain or u-cut. Both are pretty. Bright cut protects the pave diamonds more.
Very true. But if you have never seen Steven Kirsch or Victor Canera's rings in person, you may not have a problem with the work your jeweler will do because you have nothing to compare it to. You may be just fine with the end result. But I think you're asking for trouble and disappointment if you require that they make it as fine and delicate as VC or SK. Because if you don't like it, meaning that you don't think it is as fine as a ac or SK, it will be just your word against theirs. All you have is a picture to compare their work to, and it's a matter of opinion. Sorry if It seems I'm being negative. It's just how we've seen lots of these projects turn out.
 

JustinVu

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You made me worried now LJsmom :(.

I think I won't go with milgrain then, I just don't think they would have similar quality. this is the jeweler I'm going to use, one of the most chosen jeweler in Sydney, highly regarded https://www.diamondemporium.com.au.. Perhaps from looking at their design you guys may be able to tell me which direction I should go.

Here are my choices:
1. Victor Canera: Jocelyn with scalloped basket with bright cut pave and no milgrain.
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/the-jocelyn-with-scalloped-basket

2. Victor Canera: Six Prong Solitaire with Scalloped Basket with u cut pave. she likes 4 prongs more than 6 but also wants the prong to be as minimal as possible so I'm not sure how secured it will be for 4 thin prongs ?
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/six-prong-solitaire-with-scalloped-basket

3. Sten Kirsch: this is the 4 prong version with u cut pave. I kinda like it except maybe remove the diamond on the donut as it may scratch the wedding band later.
http://stevenkirsch.com/gallery/destiny-two/

Which design should I choose? Should I have 4 or 6 prongs?

2 days left, I'm so nervous. Spent whole day today planning my proposal. It's gonna be amazing :)
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jocelyn is best bet for unknown bench. Nice settings!!!
 

JustinVu

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Gypsy|1469264723|4058541 said:
Jocelyn is best bet for unknown bench. Nice settings!!!
Thanks Gypsy,

I've seen the diamond in person today.
Diamond: 1.10ct E VS1 GIA 2173639776
Price: $15,650.00inc.GST
HCA: 0.9 EX EX EX VG
Video: http://hdfiles.in/hd.aspx?stoneid=1816680030&sid=127581&rid249348&p=d0153&b=none&a=7&avid=17&acid=0
Other specs: 62.1 depth, 56 table, 35 CA, 40.6PA.

Was not 100% happy with it due to light leakage right in the middle on the stone. But since the jeweler already allowed me to return the radiant plus reduced the price heavily for the current round stone (it is even cheaper than JA), I decided to go ahead. Actually I didn't have any other option as the stone cannot be refunded.

To be fair, it is a nice stone with near perfect H&A (only small clefs in the hearts) + very clear distinct 8 arrows displayed.

my stone has exactly the same specs as the stone A in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r__3Cb3jKbw.. But somehow I can't see any of that fire + scintillation as expected (is that because the stone is too small?)

Anyway, it is locked, I can't do anything. We picked the diamond design today, as scheduled. I've requested them to replicate the Jocelyn by Victor Canera with single prongs instead of double. I kept the milgrain as I've examined their quality and it's pretty close in terms of fineness. All platinum with 1.3mm side diamonds all the way to 3/4. should be around 0.3 tcw for side diamonds (F VS2). We went with 2mm shank with and 1.8mm shank height.

I didn't come prepared with the shank height spec so I went with their recommended figure (1.8mm).

They will do the CAD in the next 10 days. Total cost is $3.3k
 
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