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Is it me or are OEC's more expensive than MRB's now?

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
I know, right? I just need to decide if it’s too warm. But, I’m kind of smitten...

Here’s a hand shot. No real yellow in the facets. Not sure what that reflection is from.

Darn my fat fingers!

A897F532-483C-4D0E-B7E2-F41D54302FA2.jpeg
 
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maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
1,048
I know, right? I just need to decide if it’s too warm. But, I’m kind of smitten...

Here’s a hand shot. No real yellow in the facets. Not sure what that reflection is from.

Darn my fat fingers!

A897F532-483C-4D0E-B7E2-F41D54302FA2.jpeg

It looks great and so white too!! I really love the 3 stone setting too though hahaha.
 

Aurora26

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
183
From the video, I don’t think it’s a K or L. M feels right or maybe lower. Just my opinion from the video.
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
It looks great and so white too!! I really love the 3 stone setting too though hahaha.

It is great finger coverage! And I do want a 3 stone but if I get this stone I want it to shine on its own.
 
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lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
From the video, I don’t think it’s a K or L. M feels right or maybe lower. Just my opinion from the video.

Oh I wish I had taken a pic of it next to my F ec. The OEC faces up so white!

I wish I could compare this stone to the GIA J and L I tried on last weekend-unfortunately that was a different jeweler. Last weekend, the L looked to warm to me. But this M kinda knocked my socks off. Or maybe I was mesmerized by the 10.7mm spread...
 
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Moonie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
291
Did you have a chance to check it out in different lighting? I can barely tell the difference between the I studs and the M OECs.
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
5,094
I think it looks good in the last hand pic! A lot of people want perfect symmetry but I've always preferred the pattern to be a little messy. Just a teeny tiny bit. As long as there's no girdle reflection/fisheye/nailhead, a tiny bit messy actually increases scintilation, imo. When all of the arrows/petals turn "off", it can make oecs appear dark in the center because the arrows are so fat. A little bit of mess disrupts that, but only as long as the stone is overall well cut. But I am biased because my own hfg is a little messy... and of all the diamonds I own, some with mathematically perfect pattern, I think hfg still blows them all away.

Can you visit it again and take it out in natural light to take some videos? Natural lighting, in shaded area, not direct sunlight. Plus some arm parallel to ground like you're pushing someone away, light coming from behind your palm. Also some with direct sun coming from the side of the diamond. Those three scenarios should show color and you can test your tolerance.
 

prs

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
1,519
When I pause the video I can see it does have the beginnings of a flower petal pattern. I think I also see a fairly steep crown angle, but I wonder if the table might be larger than the typical OEC.

I would normally consider the 61% depth to be too small for an ideal cut, but the culet looks like it might be quite large, so that would make everything OK. A Sarine scan would be a whole lot less expensive than a GIA and give us a lot more info.

Depending upon your personal facet pattern preference this diamond may or may not need a touch up, but if that's OK with you, my advice would be to ask for a Sarine scan.
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
Did you have a chance to check it out in different lighting? I can barely tell the difference between the I studs and the M OECs.

I did walk around the gallery. I cupped it under my hand and it was still sparkly. When I held it up next to my F ec, it faced up as almost as white. I was super surprised.
I think it looks good in the last hand pic! A lot of people want perfect symmetry but I've always preferred the pattern to be a little messy. Just a teeny tiny bit. As long as there's no girdle reflection/fisheye/nailhead, a tiny bit messy actually increases scintilation, imo. When all of the arrows/petals turn "off", it can make oecs appear dark in the center because the arrows are so fat. A little bit of mess disrupts that, but only as long as the stone is overall well cut. But I am biased because my own hfg is a little messy... and of all the diamonds I own, some with mathematically perfect pattern, I think hfg still blows them all away.

Can you visit it again and take it out in natural light to take some videos? Natural lighting, in shaded area, not direct sunlight. Plus some arm parallel to ground like you're pushing someone away, light coming from behind your palm. Also some with direct sun coming from the side of the diamond. Those three scenarios should show color and you can test your tolerance.

oh @ForteKitty your hfg story is one of my faves! I just love the faceting of your stone too. :kiss2:

This stone has no fisheye/ nailhead. Scintillation seems pretty darn good to my newbie eyes. I think I may just have to buy this ring and bring it home to see it in different lighting environments.

When I pause the video I can see it does have the beginnings of a flower petal pattern. I think I also see a fairly steep crown angle, but I wonder if the table might be larger than the typical OEC.

I would normally consider the 61% depth to be too small for an ideal cut, but the culet looks like it might be quite large, so that would make everything OK. A Sarine scan would be a whole lot less expensive than a GIA and give us a lot more info.

Depending upon your personal facet pattern preference this diamond may or may not need a touch up, but if that's OK with you, my advice would be to ask for a Sarine scan.

IRL I do see the flower petal, which I love. I'm not sure about the angles and table size since there is no cert. I'll ask about the Sarine scan. Or should I buy an ideal scope and try to evaluate the stone myself? Since this is an antique, I don't think that it will perform like your wife's gorgeous rock :D
 

Aurora26

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
183
Oh I wish I had taken a pic of it next to my F ec. The OEC faces up so white!

I wish I could compare this stone to the GIA J and L I tried on last weekend-unfortunately that was a different jeweler. Last weekend, the L looked to warm to me. But this M kinda knocked my socks off. Or maybe I was mesmerized by the 10.7mm spread...

10.7mm sounds incredible....can you buy it with a return policy, evaluate it at home and get it appraised, and then decide?
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
10.7mm sounds incredible....can you buy it with a return policy, evaluate it at home and get it appraised, and then decide?

Yes! I have another ring being sent to me to evaluate or else I might have just brought it home with me today. I SHOULD have just brought it home with me!
 

prs

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
1,519
IRL I do see the flower petal, which I love. I'm not sure about the angles and table size since there is no cert. I'll ask about the Sarine scan. Or should I buy an ideal scope and try to evaluate the stone myself? Since this is an antique, I don't think that it will perform like your wife's gorgeous rock :D

DW's stone is definitely an antique, did you note how much variation there is in the crown and pavilion angles, for sure her diamond was cut by eye! However it had seen its fair share of wear and tear over the years, so just needed a bit of a touch up to restore its former glory.

Absolutely no reason why an antique OEC can't perform really well. Many of the cutters of old were absolute masters of their craft and produced extraordinarily beautiful diamonds. That's the reason we all love old cuts so much!

You can easily determine from the video and photos if you love the facet pattern outside the table, but you'll likely have to spend a little more time with it to check out what exactly is going on under the table.

IMNSHO the crown and pavilion angles will determine how white the diamond faces up, the closer to ideal cut proportions, the whiter the diamond. The ladies here with lots of experience can tell this by eye but, lacking that experience, I needed the help of a Sarine scan just to make sure.
 
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lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
DW's stone is definitely an antique, did you note how much variation there is in the crown and pavilion angles, for sure her diamond was cut by eye! However it had seen its fair share of wear and tear over the years, so just needed a bit of a touch up to restore its former glory.

Absolutely no reason why an antique OEC can't perform really well. Many of the cutters of old were absolute masters of their craft and produced extraordinarily beautiful diamonds. That's the reason we all love old cuts so much!

You can easily determine from the video and photos if you love the facet pattern outside the table, but you'll likely have to spend a little more time with it to check out what exactly is going on under the table.

IMNSHO the crown and pavilion angles will determine how white the diamond faces up, the closer to ideal cut proportions, the whiter the diamond. The ladies here with lots of experience can tell this by eye but, lacking that experience, I needed the help of a Sarine scan just to make sure.

Hi @prs -my apologies! I was literally just pouring over every word of your original post! Your DW is very lucky. My DH would never have the patience to scrutinize the recut of an antique like you did. You deserve a medal and the result is nothing short of stunning. The cut on your DW's diamond is perfection!
 

Aurora26

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
183
DW's stone is definitely an antique, did you note how much variation there is in the crown and pavilion angles, for sure her diamond was cut by eye! However it had seen its fair share of wear and tear over the years, so just needed a bit of a touch up to restore its former glory.

Absolutely no reason why an antique OEC can't perform really well. Many of the cutters of old were absolute masters of their craft and produced extraordinarily beautiful diamonds. That's the reason we all love old cuts so much!

You can easily determine from the video and photos if you love the facet pattern outside the table, but you'll likely have to spend a little more time with it to check out what exactly is going on under the table.

IMNSHO the crown and pavilion angles will determine how white the diamond faces up, the closer to ideal cut proportions, the whiter the diamond. The ladies here with lots of experience can tell this by eye but, lacking that experience, I needed the help of a Sarine scan just to make sure.

Curious, would ideal proportions for an OEC be identical to those of an MRB since they’re both round cuts? Or are there additional considerations here? Can any jeweler access a Sarine scan? And can they only do a Sarine scan on a loose stone?
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
45,793
First impressions based on the video. To my eye, it could be an M or a bit warmer. I wouldn't be surprised if it was an OP (GIA standards). I could be wrong because it's impossible to evaluate color accurately based on a video (and set in a ring) vs IRL compared to a master set but all that matters is that you like the color.

The main concern about the color is the price is based on the color (and clarity) grade so you want to make sure you are not overpaying. Do you have a GIA M stone to compare it with or even a lower color GIA graded stone you can bring with you to contrast and compare?

The faceting looks promising but again this is based on the limited pics and video. I like to see even light play across the stone and a pleasing on and off pattern. I don't like to see lots of facets off together near each other if you kwim because that makes the stone go dark. I like to see a pleasing alternating on and off pattern.

My main thought is if I were you, and the color isn't a deal breaker, I would like to see more of this stone in different environments. Old cuts are chameleons and only seeing them in as many different lighting environments as possible will you know for sure if it is the stone for you.
 

Austina

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 24, 2017
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@lulu_ma I second a trip to OWD, I went with Missy and Adam was really great. He pulled lots of stones for me to look at, and gave his very unbiased opinion on each of them.

FYI, the stone on the bottom left is an M OMC, and it was absolutely lovely IRL. If I hadn’t got Bella, I would’ve definitely gone for that.
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
@missy @Austina thanks for your input!

I would love to visit OWD irl. Unfortunately, between family members vaccines and my kids' school, I won't be able to get to OWD for a few months (for reference-my elder cancer-survivor parents are still waiting for their 2nd shots). I'm just not that patient!

For this stone-I have listened and I think you are all right. To seriously consider it, I will have to see it unset in different lighting environments.

I think I will order a GIA Grading Set now.

Thanks all!
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
45,793
@missy @Austina thanks for your input!

I would love to visit OWD irl. Unfortunately, between family members vaccines and my kids' school, I won't be able to get to OWD for a few months (for reference-my elder cancer-survivor parents are still waiting for their 2nd shots). I'm just not that patient!

For this stone-I have listened and I think you are all right. To seriously consider it, I will have to see it unset in different lighting environments.

I think I will order a GIA Grading Set now.

Thanks all!

I just want to add one thought if I may. If you aren’t in love once you do your due diligence then don’t rush into any purchase. Take your time. Diamond purchases are best not rushed and best not to settle. Your dream stone is out there. And in the grand scheme of things a few months is no time at all. Food for thought. Good luck!
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
I just want to add one thought if I may. If you aren’t in love once you do your due diligence then don’t rush into any purchase. Take your time. Diamond purchases are best not rushed and best not to settle. Your dream stone is out there. And in the grand scheme of things a few months is no time at all. Food for thought. Good luck!

Yes @missy you are absolutely right! I SO want to do a shopping trip in NYC but NYC seems so far away right now...

Until then, I will keep assessing the stones that I can. This "M" stone threw me for a loop! It's so pretty IRL.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
45,793
Yes @missy you are absolutely right! I SO want to do a shopping trip in NYC but NYC seems so far away right now...

Until then, I will keep assessing the stones that I can. This "M" stone threw me for a loop! It's so pretty IRL.

If you love the M there is nothing wrong with an M at all. I just want you to make sure you are paying a fair price for it. The color was assigned by the jeweler IIRC and not an objective party (like GIA for example) and the price is based on a few factors including color.
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
Mine is GIA O-P, so in my opinion that stone is at least that. Having said that, I think it's gorgeous :kiss2:. Here they are side by side...kinda.

@Mrs_Strizzle your stone is so pretty! I still can't believe it's an OP! I would love to know how you found this beauty. Is you find her at a local jeweler? There are only a handful of larger stones in my area for me to look at and they are all set in rings.
 

Mrs_Strizzle

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 14, 2018
Messages
997
@Mrs_Strizzle your stone is so pretty! I still can't believe it's an OP! I would love to know how you found this beauty. Is you find her at a local jeweler? There are only a handful of larger stones in my area for me to look at and they are all set in rings.

No, I actually bought her from another PSer @imdoubler who bought it from another PSer.
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
No, I actually bought her from another PSer @imdoubler who bought it from another PSer.

Oh-duh! I remember reading that now! I have been over-researching so much some details are getting fuzzy...maybe this is a new syndrome-OEC brain ;-)
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
If you love the M there is nothing wrong with an M at all. I just want you to make sure you are paying a fair price for it. The color was assigned by the jeweler IIRC and not an objective party (like GIA for example) and the price is based on a few factors including color.

@missy I guess I have to determine if I love the stone first and then make sure that the stats are what they say they are.

But in terms of pricing, I haven’t collected market data on M colored stones. So how do I determine if it’s a fair price? The OEC market for larger stones seems smallish. So it’s harder to have access to data. For example, I checked OWD’s inventory and they only have 1 stone that is close to the specs on this one and it’s an EGL M.
 

prs

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
1,519
@missy I guess I have to determine if I love the stone first and then make sure that the stats are what they say they are.

But in terms of pricing, I haven’t collected market data on M colored stones. So how do I determine if it’s a fair price? The OEC market for larger stones seems smallish. So it’s harder to have access to data. For example, I checked OWD’s inventory and they only have 1 stone that is close to the specs on this one and it’s an EGL M.


I found the only way to get ballpark pricing on 4+ct OECs was to look at the price for MRBs of the same carat weight, color and clarity. Dealers always use the Rapaport price list to come up with their MRB prices but it only goes down to M color. M color is priced about 10% lower than L color so I figured N color should be about 10% less than an M, and that seemed to be consistent with the N color prices I could find. Very little data for O-P color, but those prices seemed to be about the same as N.

To me if the diamond faces up white enough for you to love it, then it doesn't really matter what it would grade at GIA. The GIA grade would effect the price, but in this size and color range it all comes down to negotiation. Diamonds this size are few and far between so the scarcity effect sure comes into play here.

I know I mentioned getting a Sarine scan, but that might be overkill if the jeweler isn't located close to a cutter. To me if the diamond is a fireball in direct sunlight or under the jewelers bright lights, then you can be pretty sure it's well cut.

We found we had to go into full shade to see the facet pattern on DW's OEC, it just sparked too much in any other lighting conditions. Her OEC is about the same size as your diamond, so plenty big enough to see the facet pattern with the naked eye in the right light.
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
@prs thanks so much! This is really useful information. I'm going to search for M colored MRB's now.
 

prs

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
1,519
I checked the larger photo and the table measures out very close to 50%, darn near perfect! :)
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
I checked the larger photo and the table measures out very close to 50%, darn near perfect! :)

Thanks!! I would never have been able to figure out how to calculate the table myself :loopy:

I keep thinking about this stone. I'm due to look at 4 ct on Friday. If that one doesn't work out, I will buy this stone on Saturday for inspection.

Your expertise is much appreciated!
 
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lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
911
A dealer just posted this diamond. On paper it seems great but does it have a fish eye?

277453CA-EF14-4687-B9C6-2E1267D2A65C.jpeg
 
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