Is anyone else feeling fearful with what’s happening?

[Calliecake]

Please know I’m here for you Monnie. Sending you love and hugs.

 

[Matata]

@Matata the article is linked. I think you didn't mean to do that. Just letting you know.

Thanks for the heads up. That is embedded in the one I took the quote from so I hope it technically isn't outside of the rules.

 

[Matata]

I’ve heard the opposite from many different sources

The the opposite of what, that there aren't other countries willing to supply Iran with nuclear war heads?

 

[Matata]

The US decision to strike Iran was not based on a policy decision and certainly made contrary to intelligence info. It was made on impulse. Someone fell into the trap set to get the US involved.

"So, once again, the US has gone to war in the Middle East on the back of a lie, on disputed, probably faulty intelligence purposefully distorted for political reasons. Once again, as in Iraq in 2003, the overall objectives of the war are unclear, uncertain and open to interpretation by friend and foe alike. Once again, there appears to be no “exit strategy”, no guardrails against escalation and no plan for what happens next. Demanding that Iran capitulate or face “national tragedy” is not a policy. It’s a deadly dead-end."

No matter what Trump says, the US has gone to war – and there will be profound and lasting consequences.​

The above is the title of the article in The Guardian. I removed the link since it contains info that may violate PS rules.

 

[Bonfire]

I totally get what you’re saying @monarch64 .
Feel your feels my friend, all of it…

 

[ShinyPink]

Anyone who says our intelligence agencies don't know what they're doing/talking about, yet pulls information out of their ass to bomb a country, is a f*cking tool and war criminal. Let's send US troops to another war that is not ours to fight. I'm sure families can't wait to find out their loved ones were killed because of someone's ego. This bloodshed is on all who support it. Nothing good will come of it, unless you cheer the obliteration of entire peoples.

I do not want to hear "it was necessary" and all the other bullsh*t, especially those "worried" about the US and we "had to" bomb Iran. The time to worry was months ago. We are screwed. Now we have Yemen saying they will join this war if necessary. This is almost worse than our other war on those WMD that didn't exist.

 

[missy]

It's just that this whole idea of achieving peace through bombing someone doesn't have a good track record of working.

Standing by doing nothing does not have a good track record either
WW2 wouldn't have had so many casualties if we had gotten involved sooner
If other countries said no to what was happening
Everyone stood by
Thinking it wasn't going to happen

The quote (rewording it a bit): evil happens when good people do nothing
That resonates with me

This does affect us whether or not you want to believe it
Listen to what they say
They want to kill all who will not conform
Infidels

The USA getting involved is for our own self interests
Not really altruistic though yes we need to stand by our allies

The west is next is now
I believe the enemy when they preach death to all infidels
You and I we are considered infidels
Their track record speaks for itself

 

[Bonfire]

He bombs Iran after he tells his own national intelligence director that’s she’s wrong about Iran’s nuclear capabilities. He dismantled our joint terrorism task force. He gutted the Nation Security Council. Our Department of Defense is headed up by a woefully unqualified weekend “news” host. I don’t suppose our intelligence allies will want to share intel with us anymore. Sure, I feel safer now. Just waiting for the fallout.

 

[Lookinagain]

Thanks for the heads up. That is embedded in the one I took the quote from so I hope it technically isn't outside of the rules.

I don't know whether it is or isn't. It would be nice to have clarification on that. You can disable links embedded in quotes. If you aren't aware of that here's a photo where I show how. Just highlight the link and the option pops up.

 

[Ella]

I don't know whether it is or isn't. It would be nice to have clarification on that. You can disable links embedded in quotes. If you aren't aware of that here's a photo where I show how. Just highlight the link and the option pops up.

We're not policing every word of every article linked. If the headline breaks a rule, it's from a non-legitimate news source like someone's facebook post, instagram, is very inflammatory towards one political party or another, etc. we remove it. If an article is otherwise focused on the policies and not the people, it's fine.

There is no way to have hard and fast rules about something as complex as "what is political" these days. We're doing our best while trying to allow these discussions to happen.

 

[Matata]

ou can disable links embedded in quotes. If you aren't aware of that here's a photo where I show how. Just highlight the link and the option pops up.

Thank you! I had no idea such a thing was possible.

 

[Avondale]

The quote (rewording it a bit): evil happens when good people do nothing
That resonates with me

This comes to mind, just to lighten the mood in this otherwise heavy conversation:


(Credit to the artist: https://x.com/tomgauld/status/571994690289061888)

I'm sorry, @missy , I don't see things the way you do. I don't see good guys anywhere in this situation (on a state level). Merely interests and agendas. I don't believe morality has had any sort of play in the decision making process and will only be used as an argument for media and public speeches.

What I am interested in, though, is the logic these events follow. How they are connected.

Ever since the US withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal under the pretense that it wasn't good enough and a better one could be negotiated, things have started to go downhill. Iran initially complied with its obligations under deal, one of which included limits on uranium enrichment so that it could only be used for civilian purposes, and not military. I personally don't find it at all surprising that after the withdrawal Iran used the opportunity to say the other parties had broken the treaty and Iran would therefore no longer adhere to it. The problem is, the promised better deal never came, and as much as the UN security council called for a diplomatic approach during their meeting earlier this evening, I don't see this happening any time soon.

After five rounds of negotiations, a sixth meeting was scheduled for 15th June, Sunday. Before that meeting could be held, on Friday evening Israel initiated their air strike against Iran. Obviously now negotiations are done for and will not proceed. So what was Israel's motivation? Did they believe that the current US administration was incapable of delivering on the promise of a better deal, or in fact any deal whatsoever, and hence decided to take matters into their own hands? Or did they intentionally sabotage the negotiations because they don't want a nuclear deal to be in place? And where does the vote of no confidence held in the Israeli parliament on the previous day stand in all of this?

What is the US' interest in participating in yet another war in the Middle East? The country is all but broke with the monstrous debt it has taken on over the last few decades, and the plans to take on even more (assuming the BBB passes, last I heard it was stuck in Senate). Can it even afford to wage such a war? What's the end goal? Toppling the regime? I dislike religious zealots just as much as the next person but history has shown time and time again forced regime changes in the Middle East only lead to chaos and civil unrest. So I'm not sure who wins in this situation, aside from Israel who will undoubtedly benefit from a disorganised and destabilised Iran.

Perhaps the US was concerned the Israeli act of aggression was all the justification Iran needed to speed up its development of nuclear weapons? That would be a legitimate threat. There's a reason no one wants to allow Iran to have nuclear weapons, and I, for one, don't even want to imagine what it would be like if Iran were to start supplying terrorist organisations with nuclear bombs. But would this have been objectively possible, even if they wanted to, to develop weapons in just a few short weeks? After all, only three months ago the US director of national intelligence testified that Iran had not resumed its nuclear weapons programme and was not developing nuclear weapons. She has now changed her position.

If we assume that it was possible (and predictable), we also have to ask why Israel chose to initiate the air strike. After all, one of the nuclear facilities targeted by the US was underground and it is widely reported that in order for it to be sufficiently damaged, it had to be hit with a bunker busting bomb that only the US has. Israel (or any other country for that matter) alone could not have achieved the destruction of this facility. Surely, they must've known their actions and strikes would only injure and anger without sufficiently incapacitating. So was the US government essentially put in a position where it was forced to interfere regardless of whether it wanted to or not?

Or maybe this whole thing was coordinated between the two countries from the start with some end goal in mind we have yet to uncover?

There are so many questions without an answer, that at this point we can only speculate and hypothesise. But even so, I am sure of this one thing - this conflict was not initiated with peace in mind, and none of this was done out of the goodness of anyone's heart. These are state interests at play, and they leave no room for sentimentality.

 

[Matata]

It's a sure thing that terrorist activity against the US will ramp up. The NYT earlier reported that Iran friendly militias were gathering to strike US military sites and the EU was attempting to convince them not to act. And then there's this:

June 22, 2025, 7:31 p.m. ET39 minutes ago
Annie Correal and Sanam Mahoozi
The head of the judiciary of Iran, Mohsen Ejei, said in a post on X that the United States “must await severe punishment,” adding that it had been “complicit” with Israel “and now it is itself a perpetrator.”

 

[missy]

So what was Israel's motivation?

Israel’s motivation ? Let’s see. Direct attacks and assassinations stemming from the Gaza war. For one.

The strikes targeted Iranian nuclear and military sites and were triggered by Iran's violation of nuclear proliferation obligations as declared by the IAEA.

Israel viewed Iran's nuclear program as an existential threat and aimed to prevent it from developing nuclear weapons.

I, for one, don't even want to imagine what it would be like if Iran were to start supplying terrorist organisations with nuclear bombs

Exactly. That was their motivation too. None of us want that.

I believe our leaders and theirs had this planned together but it’s all speculation. We don’t have the facts. Not yet. But initially our president had said he was going to think about this for a couple of weeks. I believe he said that to throw our enemies off track.

this conflict was not initiated with peace in mind

Disagree completely. Peace is the goal.

Furthermore, Israel should not tolerate any country that wants its extermination. You can’t negotiate with those who only want you dead

“Hitler said he wanted us dead no one believed him
Hamas said they wanted us dead and again no one believed them

Iran said they would wipe Israel and the USA off the face of the map. Glad finally we believe them”

I’m paraphrasing the quote above from memory
I believe them
I also believe the world is a safer place now for everyone

We have a long way to go but this is a beginning

 

[missy]

One more thing
Israel is defending herself and fighting evil for the rest of the world. They want peace more than anything. Thank you USA for standing beside her. Stand behind israel. Not behind evil

It’s mind boggling terrorists live streamed the rapes and murders and torture October 7th and there are still people who refuse to believe it

Israel is fighting for the core values of the liberal west. They are on the front lines of the struggle for civilization against a brutal authoritarian regime that has oppressed its own people and terrorized the region for more than 4 decades.

Remember most Iranians are not the regime. And they stand behind Israel.

Imagine an Iran that thrives on democracy and prosperity and peace. Something all of us (with the exception of those who are evil) want to see. More than anything. Peace is the goal

 

[Matata]

I also believe the world is a safer place now for everyone

Far from it. Americans are now at greater risk of retaliation from Iran and its proxies. Iran's nuclear facilities are damaged not destroyed. Their enriched uranium stockpile was apparently not stored in any of the bombed sites. Israel has claimed for at least 2 decades that Iran was 2-weeks away from having a nuclear weapon yet intelligence agencies believe that Israel has had a nuclear arsenal since 1967 so who is the greater nuclear threat in the Middle East?

 

[missy]

Far from it. Americans are now at greater risk of retaliation from Iran and its proxies. Iran's nuclear facilities are damaged not destroyed. Their enriched uranium stockpile was apparently not stored in any of the bombed sites. Israel has claimed for at least 2 decades that Iran was 2-weeks away from having a nuclear weapon yet intelligence agencies believe that Israel has had a nuclear arsenal since 1967 so who is the greater nuclear threat in the Middle East?

You’re worried about Iran’s response but were not worried about them having nuclear weapons?

Fordow was the workhorse. Putting that out of commission was critical m

Israel is significantly setting back Iran’s ability to build nuclear weapons

Israel is not evil. They’re not going to use their weapons on innocent people. Huge difference between Israel and the Iranian regime

War has consequences however doing nothing was not an option.

 

[Calliecake]

If peace is the goal a country doesn’t say we will revisit this in two weeks and bomb a city two days later.

The action the US decided to take was an act of war. FACT

If another country bombed the US we would definitely consider this an act of war. FACT


The world is a much more dangerous place today than it was a few days ago. The spin people try to use is ridiculous.

Are you saying Iranians don’t mind the air strikes or being bombed??? They may not agree with their leaders. Most of us in the US do not like our or agree with our leaders actions, it doesn’t mean we would be ok with being bombed.

Doing nothing would have been the smart thing for the US to do.

War has consequences. We are about to find what the consequences of our actions are.

 

[missy]

Unfortunately sometimes war is necessary. And all war has consequences. Good and bad. Risk v benefit. The option to do nothing was much worse

If peace is the goal a country doesn’t say we will revisit this in two weeks and bomb a city two days later.

I believe that was done to throw our enemies off the track. Wise move. Iran didn’t see it coming. None of our brave military were injured.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Because people like my brother and all those from where I came (rural America aka “flyover country”) are ALWAYS rounded up and shown some “patriotic” figures and told that their ancestors fought for their women’s and children’s and their own freedoms!

And by “people” I mean those who are the actual dregs of society. If that’s an insult to my brother, so be it. He was forced to enlist a long time ago, right before Desert Storm. That’s what they do to these guys—they threaten them with either prison or learning how to kill.

This entire comment of mine will be banned soon, I’m sure. I have never felt safe as an American on this site.

I came back to post some beautiful pearl studs from a very popular man. Let’s see if I’m still blacklisted. (Because I know I am. Might as well blow this shit up, too)

Hugs to you @monarch64

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Unfortunately sometimes war is necessary. And all war has consequences. Good and bad. Risk v benefit. The option to do nothing was much worse




I believe that was done to throw our enemies off the track. Wise move. Iran didn’t see it coming. None of our brave military were injured.

I understand @missy
I don't want to ever see American lives lost
I'm pretty sure NZ would stand with you

something had to be done
I have felt this way for a long time about that part of the world But you probably already know that

 

[missy]

It's a safer world when those who chant
"Death to Israel"
"Death to America"
"Death to the West"
Don't have access to Nuclear Power.


Thank you Nicky. I know. And I appreciate your support and friendship

 

[Matata]

Israel is defending herself and fighting evil for the rest of the world.

Iran did not bomb Israel.

They want peace more than anything.

Perhaps the citizens do but the government clearly does not.

It’s mind boggling terrorists live streamed the rapes and murders and torture October 7th and there are still people who refuse to believe it

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Israel is fighting for the core values of the liberal west. They are on the front lines of the struggle for civilization against a brutal authoritarian regime that has oppressed its own people and terrorized the region for more than 4 decades.

The west is capable of fighting for its own core values. Israel could not fight anyone without the billions of dollars and weapons it receives from the US. Iran was unhappy with the Shah and as a consequence ended up with a brutal theocracy, their problem to solve.

 

[ShinyPink]

I don't know how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that Israel is attacking other nations for the good of Western nations. YOU CANNOT GET PEACE THROUGH BOMBING!!!!!!
I don't believe for one second this was done for our benefit, but rather for the benefit of certain people and their egos - plus money. Just remember: there is more than one madman with access to nuclear weapons.

 

[Matata]

Don't have access to Nuclear Power.

They'll still have airplanes and sleeper cells and the capacity to deal death by a thousand cuts.

 

[missy]

They'll still have airplanes and sleeper cells and the capacity to deal death by a thousand cuts.

One day at a time. Can’t fix everything immediately


You can’t compare Israel to the evil regimes surrounding them. I mean you can but you’d be wrong

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Me too. Who doesn't love the great blues singers.
They knew how to describe heartache and pain like no one else

Back to the topic...we shall see

The world can achieve peace in the Middle East
Or it can have a rogue nuclear weapons program
But it cannot have both

The world will be safer and freer without the threat of a nuclear republic of Iran
Remember they vowed death to America way before this
They hate us to the depth of their being


Furthermore, the minorities they claim to care about including Bahais, Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, Kurds, LGBTQ Iranians... have always suffered most under this regime.
Look what they've done to the women in their country.
Remember how it was in the 50s, 60s and most of the 70s?
Women there were free. Not anymore.

Van Jones said "Iran is not a normal country. Normal countries don't empower proxies to surround a country, fire rockets and rape people."

Time will tel

It's really sad looking back what their country used to be like complied to now

 

[missy]

We need a crazy emoji

Are you trying to get this thread shut down because you don’t like what I’m sharing? Sad.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

It's a safer world when those who chant
"Death to Israel"
"Death to America"
"Death to the West"
Don't have access to Nuclear Power.


Thank you Nicky. I know. And I appreciate your support and friendship

One day when I have mote energy (Gary much better still in hospital) we need to find each other on loop troop

 

[Calliecake]

I am not trying to get the thread shut down nor have I ever tried to get a thread shut down.