Income to diamond ratio?

[treefrog]

Date: 7/15/2009 1:41:59 AM
Author: Gypsy


This ring has a 1.5 round in it. Just for reference. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/verragio-insignia-with-1-5-ct-aca.118395/

Gypsy - that is one REALLY gorgeous ring!
Edit: whoever owns it. Great example though.

 

[dreamofdiamonds]

decodelighted,

I don''t think its unrealistic...after all PS is here to inform the consumer.

Thanks for pointing out that I am naive, you must be the resident expert on PS.

cheers!

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 7/15/2009 10:48:34 AM
Author: dreamofdiamonds
PS is here to inform the consumer.

... about diamonds, diamond purchases, jewelry, wedding planning etc -- not about our personal balancesheets. But maybe if you stick around you''ll realize how off-putting your request comes across.

 

[dreamofdiamonds]

decodelighted,

You''re right.... being the expert and all....

about diamonds, diamond purchases, jewelry, wedding planning etc -- not about our personal balancesheets. But maybe if you stick around you''ll realize how off-putting your request comes across.
so why is it unreasonable to see how much people have paid for their diamond vs. what they make... if it makes peopel feel uncomfortable, they can simply chose not to answer, some have answered my question and some have not. The question isnt there to offend anyone.


Cheers!

 

[partgypsy]

Dreamofdiamonds I think people have been answering your question, in their own way. You are not going to find the answer to the question by finding out all the income to diamond ratios and averaging them. There are already people who have posted (myself included) that gave their "ratios" which are smaller than what you are looking at. There are also people with lovely rings who have a passion for them, and have sacrificed in other areas (eloping versus wedding, clothes, other person items) to acheive that goal. There are people who probably have diamond to income ratios closer to what you are looking at, but have raised their kids, do not have debt, and own their homes. It's not a valid comparison.
The only reason that we are questioning your choice is that you also said in the same post you want to get a home in 3 years (very expensive) and also that you plan on adopting in your 40's (never heard of an inexpensive adoption). AND we are going through a very uncertain time in our economy. Probably not the answer you were looking for. I still think you can get a fabulous diamond and ring for say 10K. And if we are all wrong and you are both rolling in money after acheiving your other goals, then upgrade time baby!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/14/2009 5:28:26 PM
Author: Moh 10
A few of us spend way way more than we ''should''.
We love diamonds and make sacrifices to obtain extraordinary specimens.
We have diamonds typically owned by much wealthier people.
We pay no attention to formulae, or common sense.
We find a way to get our diamonds.

I know a woman who is a secretary.
She has a very modest income.
Her passion is opera.
She scrimps and saves and lives a meager life but once every 10 years she flies to Europe to attend a series of opera performances by the best opera singers of our day.
She says she is sure she must be the lowest-income person in the concert hall.
I know an man with a 9 foot concert grand piano, and little else, in his tiny apartment in a very inexpensive neighborhood.
He considers himself wealthy to live with the daily vivid experience of Bach, Mozart, Chopin, and Ravel in his home.
These are two of the happiest people I know.

You can''t have everything in life.
But a few of us happily exchange a ''normal and balanced'' life for one that permits an extreme passion or two.

Absolutely, very well said Moh!

 

[motownmama]

My thoughts? $20k is too much when you make $65K net, BUT get something for $10K from a co with an excellemt upgrtade policy and save the rest towards a downpayment on a house.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I realize I'm very late to this, but I always find the "income to amount spent on diamond" argument completely nutso. As other posters have pointed out, income means nothing if you don't have savings. I couldn't have cared less about my spouse's income when it came to picking an e-ring. I knew what we had in savings. I knew what our priority for that savings was (ring and wedding being LOW priorities). We spent less than 5% of savings at that time on a ring and wedding.

If you ask me, when it comes a ring, income goes out the window because that is NEVER guaranteed. Focus on what you have in savings. If nothing? No ring. Case closed. If you do have savings, it should be discussed WITH BOTH PARTIES what the priority of that savings is. That's a marriage, so it's good practice when getting engaged.

 

[y2kitty]

I wouldn''t fault anyone for not owning a house. Home ownership is not for everyone. I am happy renting, saving money, and enjoying my jewelry.

 

[treefrog]

Date: 7/15/2009 10:06:47 AM
Author: dreamofdiamonds
OK! WOW.............

A lot of opinions about this, I guess I asked for it!

size isnt everything.... I understand now that I''ve read more on PS, cut is the most important thing to me...

I dont know, I feel really greedy for wanting something so expensive.

thanks- but no one really wants to answer my question...

Yeah, you really kicked off a hot discussion. Lots of exceptional advice here.

Everybody is different - it''s what makes the world go around. It''s why there are 10''s of thousands of different ring styles out there. It really boils down to your wants as a couple. What is it you want this diamond to ''say'' to others? Really, it doesn''t mean your SO loves you more, makes more money, is better in bed, or you''re that much better than somebody else. Look at part of a traditional wedding vow:

"I give you this ring to wear with love and joy. As a ring has no end, neither shall my love for you. I choose you to be my (wife / husband) this day and forevermore."

or

"I give you this ring as a symbol of my love and faithfulness. As I place it on your finger, I commit my heart and soul to you. I ask you to wear this ring as a reminder of the vows we have spoken today, our wedding day."

There is no mention of the income ratio, the size of the diamond, the metal type used in the ring, the amount of love the ring or diamond shows, the amount of faithfulness the ring cost promises. The ring is a symbol. Like some said here, people have different criteria. The woman that saved and saved so she could see the opera, typically well out of her means. Well, she sacrificed in other areas and splurged here. That was important to her. I doubt she went into any debt over it. Some may splurge on a car they know they really can''t afford. Some may splurge in Las Vegas, hoping to hit it big. It''s a risk they''re willing to take... and there is usually something that must be sacrificed. I think in economics, it''s called "opportunity cost". You just have to ask yourself (and your SO!) if those risks are acceptable to you (debt, delayed house purchase, less money towards retirement, more risk in case of job loss or unexpected emergency, possibly skipping some vacations, holding off on that big screen tv, eating... ).

There is a couple at my fire department that just got engaged. I''ve heard the ring & diamond cost less than $1000. Great couple. Young couple around your age. They''re working their way through school. I don''t think that is any reflection on their love for each other. What was probably important to them was a ring and maintaining their expected quality of life. Again, everybody has different criteria and willingness to take risks and/or make sacrifices.

You say you now realize cut is the most important thing to you. If you''re still thinking in the neighborhood of 3ct, you''re really looking at a solid $35,000. You then say you feel greedy for wanting something so expensive. Why is that? Is it the "3ct" you want or a $20,000 ring you want? If it''s overall size/appearance you''re after, some of these people have given you some great ideas. Should you later in life find you want a different diamond, a better cut, or a different shape, you may find it hard to find somebody that values a low quality 3ct and you may be stuck with it. Should you choose to go this route, absolutely choose a vendor that has a rock solid trade-up policy.

Still, I recommend a financial planner to look at the big picture, get all your dreams and numbers down on paper and work out a plan to make the best use of your money. Establish a diamond budget, choose whether carat or cut is truly most important to you (the other C''s will follow based on your primary C), and come back to us for help in picking out a diamond.

Oh... and you''ll find very few willing to take the risk of answering that question. It''s extremely subjective and too risky to put that kind of information on a public forum. Here''s what I''ll share. I sold some stuff, made some sacrifices, and bought a beautiful 1.117 Whiteflash ACA diamond... without taking out a loan. Sara absolutely loves it.

Treefrog

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/15/2009 10:58:50 AM
Author: dreamofdiamonds

decodelighted,

You''re right.... being the expert and all....

about diamonds, diamond purchases, jewelry, wedding planning etc -- not about our personal balancesheets. But maybe if you stick around you''ll realize how off-putting your request comes across.

so why is it unreasonable to see how much people have paid for their diamond vs. what they make... if it makes peopel feel uncomfortable, they can simply chose not to answer, some have answered my question and some have not. The question isnt there to offend anyone.


Cheers!

Yes people can answer or ignore, but the question really doesn''t have a point. What does this have to do with diamond education? Are you going to take all the averages and figure out your budget? It seems you are hoping to justify yours, is all.

The question you are asking is "how much was your ring and how much do you make." I wouldn''t be opposed to answering a price question if someone was really interested in trying to see if it would be in their budget, but a question like this is asked here because it would be even ruder to ask people in real life. In fact, I daresay it just would not be done.

 

[elle_chris]

psst- TGal, it was asked. Just recently too on the "real ladies of pricescope" thread.
Many people answered. Personally, and no matter what the OP said, there was nothing educational about that thread. It just looked judgmental to me.

To the OP- I also think spending 20k on a ring, for someone that makes 100k a year is too much.. But, if you place more importance on getting a 3ct stone, (just remember it won''t be the best quality for 20k) than the obvious things in life that have already been mentioned, then I say go for it. In the end, it''s no one''s business.

 

[lowphat]

If you can spend $20k on the ring and it doesn''t affect your lifestyle too much, do it. It''s your money. Do what you want with it and be happy with your purchase.

Don''t ask a bunch of strangers on an internet forum how you should spend your money, and then get your panties in a bunch because they''re telling you what you don''t want to hear. People are giving you their honest advice. If you don''t like it, don''t pose the question.

 

[D&T]

Date: 7/14/2009 2:25:48 PM
Author: DiamondFlame
Don't ever equate your self worth to the size of the stone you wear, honey.

Besides, having a 3 carat now is only going to take the fun out of your future diamond upgrade projects...

true true,

Can I just say that my boss/owner of a multimillion dollar corporation only bought his wife (they've been married for years) only about a little over 1 carat diamond ring and he obviously can afford much much much more - I don't see her ever upgrading and they are only in the mid 40s.

our first diamond ring was a .40 princess cut spent about $2k pre pricescope and that was my little bit of help. roughly 5% of what he made plus me six years ago (I was finishing up grad school and worked here and there), I since upgrade to a 1.21 carat with multiple setting changes, still in the very low 4% -5% of our household income. $20k is a stretch jmho - but hey if it makes you happy to each their own.

 

[LamborghiniGirl]

Hello! I am not going to criticize your tastes and wants, as you can like whatever you choose!

I like you, am a fan of big diamonds.

What about this for an idea:
Try to put aside $5K per year for 4 years, and then in 4 years you can buy your ring outright with no guilt about it. If you can add more than 5K a year, the process will be faster. But I personally feel that spending 20K in one year, with 100K of income isn''t the smartest decision. Yet at a 100K income, that means in 4 years you will make 400K. Then, a 20K ring or diamond is only 5% of your income. More manageable, if you ask me, just takes some patience. But in the end, it is whatever you feel comfortable with!

I have a ''diamond account'' where I keep that money I am allocating for it separate from my other savings, and it is kind of fun watching it grow each month, as I add what I feel comfortable adding. I plan on spending a significant amount of money on a diamond in the next few years, but I would not spend 20% of my yearly income. Financially, I personally don''t think it is a smart decision.

If you don''t want to wait 4 years, get a nice CZ in the mean time for like $500 so you feel like you have a big diamond! Unless you have a friend that is a PSer, no one will know the difference

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/15/2009 12:31:21 PM
Author: elle_chris
psst- TGal, it was asked. Just recently too on the ''real ladies of pricescope'' thread.
Many people answered. Personally, and no matter what the OP said, there was nothing educational about that thread. It just looked judgmental to me.

To the OP- I also think spending 20k on a ring, for someone that makes 100k a year is too much.. But, if you place more importance on getting a 3ct stone, (just remember it won''t be the best quality for 20k) than the obvious things in life that have already been mentioned, then I say go for it. In the end, it''s no one''s business.

And I wasn''t that impressed with that thread either, but at least it asked what people DID instead of how much people MADE.

 

[lucyandroger]

Hi Dream,

I have to say that this decision is all about priorities. You say you want a $20,000 diamond ring, a house in the next 3 years, and to adopt kids ($$$) farther down the line. You have to sit down with your partner and make some decisions about which of these are most important and if it''s realistic to work towards them all right now or put some things on hold until you achieve the most important goal. Do you have anything saved up yet?

Also, how about saving for retirement? an emergency fund? Am I the only person in their twenties saving for retirement??? Maybe I''m a fuddy-duddy stuck in a 24 year old body

To answer your question, my BF and I each individually make more than you and your BF combined and yet my ring will cost considerably less than your ring.

It''s fine to dream big. I day dream all the time about having HUGE mansions in lots of glorious locations. At some point though, reality has to set in. Instead we''re buying a decent but not big home with a reasonable commute to work.

Also I''m not sure if you mentioned this but how does your BF feel about spending every single free penny on a piece of jewelry? I assume his opinion matters more to you than a bunch of people on the internet, right?

 

[Gypsy]

Here's what it comes down to.

You asked a question to which the ONLY CORRECT answer was "It depends"... and people told you what types of things it depended on. Then you came back with more information, you aren't married (so wedding costs), have no home (but plan to buy in 3 years), and want to adopt kids later in life. Taking those factors into account, coupled with condition of the economy. Especially since MANY of us have been laid off, furloughed, or had spouses laid off recently and understand how fluid that 100K a year is...that it isn't written in stone at all... we gave you advice.

There is no rule of thumb. As deco pointed out... that answer is " IT DEPENDS ON EACH PERSON'S CIRCUMSTANCES", so really what you WERE ASKING IS FOR YOU TELL YOU IN DETAIL OUR CIRUMSTANCES, and that's why it was so off putting. Because we would have had to tell you (none of this is true):

We are 24 and 26 years old.
Our combined income is 225
We live in Manhattan and rent and we pay 4000 a month. We would like to buy a house, but want to live in Manhattan so we're not sure when that's going to be possible so we're not thinking about it. Renting is fine for us for now. Manhattan is worth it.
We only need one car, and we lease it.
We both have over 100K in school and credit card debt we are paying down
We are planning an expensive wedding (70K plus) that we are paying for ourselves-- thank god for credit cards.
We do not want children-- but do plan on travelling A LOT when we get older (after 35)
And we both have million dollar trust funds that we get when we turn 35.
We have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck (we consider our trust fund our savings)
So we plan to buy (on credit!) a 25K ring because I'm WORTH IT, and I told him so, and OF COURSE he agreed. Plus, there's always the trust fund.

Nobody is going to put that information out on the net, and without that level of detail : Net income to diamond ratio is useless. Because on the face of it 225 a year... some people would thing SURE buy a 25K ring. You can afford it, enjoy it. It's only 10% of your income!


But you know what... the couple I described are short sighted idiots who SHOULDN"T spend 25K on the ring. They should have started paying down debt (instead of running it up with a ring purchase), putting money into savings, and doing a whole lot of other things. If that couple came to me and asked me what they should spend on a ring... I'd say... um. Buy the setting you love. Stick a lovely CZ, Mossanite, etc. in it for now. Cut up your credit cards, get a financial planner. Start paying down your debt, move to a cheaper apartment, either delay the wedding or elope, and putting money in savings. After you have at least 6 months worth of income saved up and your debt is gone, and you've maximized your 401K and ESPP plan options... buy a diamond to replace that center stone. And consider it your reward for maturity. On your five year wedding anniversary you can throw a big party and re-new your vows in style.

But... the thing is, you don't want to hear all that. BUT THAT IS THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION.

 

[phoenixgirl]

How about this for an answer . . .

If I ever spend $20k on a diamond ring, it will be after:

*we renovate and pay off the house
*we have paid off our cars
*we have our children''s college funds in place
*we own a flat in Paris
*$20k has become a smaller percentage of our yearly income (5-10%)
*etc., etc.

I guess the question is, is diamond ring the only thing on your "list," or do other things come first?

I''m wondering how your fiance feels about this. Is this survey so you can present him with evidence of other people who have spent 20% of their yearly gross income on the engagement ring? The people who did answer the question have been coming in around 5-10%.

I would also ask yourself if this really would be a one time thing, or will the urge to look at diamonds/think about diamonds/buy diamonds hit again later? You think you''ll be happy with that one nice new purse or pair of shoes, but how long until you tire of it? If you blow your wad, so to speak, at the outset, then what will you ask for/work for/think about after you''ve gotten the ring you''ll never want to upgrade? With a 3 ct. engagement ring, would you really be happy with smallish studs or pendants or whatever other diamond jewelry you might want? Or will the bar be set at tens of thousands of dollars per item? Speaking of ratios, most PSers seem to have studs that are 50 to 100% ctw of their e-ring, and pendants that are somewhere between the studs and e-ring in size. Will you feel that you''re wearing all your bling on your finger when you could have spent less and then had leeway in future years for other diamond purchases? Or will you then have to come up with enough money to get 2ctw studs and a 2.5 ct. pendant?

 

[vespergirl]

Without getting too personal on actual income, my DH spent about 2 months of what his salary was when we got engaged (he payed for it himself, and wouldn''t even let me buy his wedding band - he''s very traditional). He felt comfortable following the 2 month guideline, and that''s what most people in our peer group do. That said, he paid for the ring in cash - he had adequate savings that the year we got engaged, he also was able to put a 20% down payment on our house. So, I think it''s fine to get a 3 ct diamond if that''s what you want, as long as you''re not paying for it on a credit card or totally killing your savings, but that''s my opinion. If you can afford it free and clear, go for it, and enjoy it.

 

[lowphat]

Just wanted to add, for those suggesting CZ or masonite... the OP seems intent on 3 cts so she can brag that it''s 3 cts. Usually girls like that won''t want a fake.

 

[Lula]

I might be the odd-ball here, but I think if you really want to spend that much on a ring, and it''s okay with your fiance, well, sometimes earlier in life is the best time to take these "silly" financial risks. In my 20''s, after a bad divorce, I spent every cent I could on traveling in Europe -- by myself -- and I enjoyed every minute and every trip I took. My friends and family thought I was crazy because I wasn''t saving my money, and yes, I even took on a small amount of credit card debt to finance some travel. They said I was spending money and would have nothing to show for it. I now am re-married (happily), have a house and family responsibilities, and it would be very hard to not only pay for that travel but to budget the time for it. I don''t regret the traveling I did when I was younger; in fact, the trips are some of my favorite memories.

I just got a one-half carat diamond upgrade from my original sapphire e-ring. I''d like to go bigger in size, but it''s hard for me to justify the expense with all the other things that my husband and I''d like to do with our disposable income. I easily spent 10 or 20 times more money on travel in the 20+ trips I took abroad over a decade than I ever have on all the jewelry I''ve owned in my entire life, and travel was pretty reasonably priced back then.

I say if you want to spend 20 grand on a ring because you will truly enjoy wearing it, go ahead and do it. You''re young, and hopefully you will have many years of earning power yet to come and you will quickly make up the amount you spent on the ring. But make sure you get the best quality you can for the money! Otherwise you will have a large stone that''s kind of blah, and that''s not so fun to wear.

 

[Sam82]

Everyone''s opinion on this is going to be different. I think that you should buy what you can afford (or your fi). Did you discuss this price tag with him? How does he feel about it? My bf and I had a discussion very recently about diamond shopping. I don''t want him to spend too much because we have many things to do with our money (pay for a wedding, buy a home eventually, travel, ect.). It''s not that important to me to have a huge diamond ring.

As for the ratio, that depends on how much debt you have. If you have no debt and bring home $100,000 after taxes, then maybe I could see spending $20,000 on a ring (as long as it is bought outright).

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/15/2009 2:22:54 PM
Author: phoenixgirl

I guess the question is, is diamond ring the only thing on your ''list,'' or do other things come first?

of course not !! ,don''t forget that you are posting on a diamond forum.

 

[Moh 10]

You mean there ARE other things?

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Dreamofdiamonds, I just wanted to chime in and say that your goals of buying a house and adopting a kid happened within the same year for me, and let me tell you, adoption (at least for us) and house-buying aren''t cheap! Granted, we did those in our mid-30s rather than 40s, but (without revealing too much) we make more than double what you make, and it was a lot of hard work saving. My adoption cost what your 3 carat diamond would.

My original ering was a 3/4 ct solitaire. I''ve since added about another 3/4 ct in sidestones. Finding PS was hard for me for awhile b/c it made me want more, more, more, and BIGGER too. It took me awhile to get grounded again. And now that I have my daughter and my house, my obsession with diamonds has given way to other things, like paying a mortgage, saving for my kid''s college, possibly saving for adoption #2, saving for travel, etc.

I guess my roundabout point is that yes, I think that a $20k ring on a 100k income is too pricey, but that''s just my opinion. I would rather buy what I could afford, and then save over the years for an upgrade. You may find that when the time comes, the upgrade isn''t important anymore.

 

[jstarfireb]

Date: 7/15/2009 10:06:47 AM
Author: dreamofdiamonds
thanks- but no one really wants to answer my question...

I and a few others answered your original question. Most people aren''t comfortable posting their incomes online; I only posted because it was in the past (wouldn''t have to reveal our current income). Some others expressed the cost of the diamond as a percentage of their income, which is exactly what you asked for. The answers are hidden among the opinions...and with a touchy subject like this, there WILL be opinions! It''s your choice what you do with them. Personally, a $20k diamond would not be my choice in your situation (and my situation right now is actually quite similar to yours). But you have a healthy combined income, little to no educational debt, etc.

What I''d also like to add is that even if you''re not saving for a house or children right now, consider putting some money into a retirement fund (you''re still eligible to contribute to a Roth IRA with an income under $126k or so, and also see if your job matches 401k contributions). My husband convinced me to start doing this last year, and it''s amazing how much return you''ll get from putting just a little bit of money into a conservative mutual fund. I''m not here to tell you what to do with your money, but perhaps this is something you haven''t considered yet.

FWIW, I''m all about having a diamond you love. My FI and I chose my diamond together. But size isn''t everything, and $20,000 is a lot of money. Some say you should spend it on other things. I say just have an open discussion about it with your fiance. The most important thing in dealing with matters of money in a relationship is open communication.

 

[UCLABelle]

Well, we make just over $100K (which isn't a lot, given our living area---and Ivy League loans)...but we spent a grand total of $13K on my ring. That includes all the various rings/changes, custom work by Tiffany, etc.

Remember, our Tiffany & Co ring was from an estate jewelry (it was an authentic Tiffany) that we got for about $9,500K...and then we got Tiffany's to re-set it again and once you take out the money we made off the original setting, it turned out to be 3K to do the custom re-mount at Tiffany....

So yes, actually, more like $12,500 for the e-ring. It was appraised (albeit high) by Tiffany & Co last year for $34,000 and is insured for that.

EDIT: I didn't realize this was turning into a more heated thread...and not even sure I "answered the original question"...

This is a more "private" question, but people can decide whether or not to answer it. I have no problem...and after all, what one spends based on income is THEIR decision, and a huge number of factors goes into it, many, unquantifiable.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Only YOU know what is right for your own life. Doesn''t matter if we are talking about buying a diamond or adopting children in your 40s. If you can afford spending 20K without doing into debt or sacrificing other things (like food, rent, retirement...) and it would make you both happy go for it. If not, there is nothing wrong downsizing your ring budget a bit. Good luck!

 

[UCLABelle]

Date: 7/16/2009 9:55:19 AM
Author: Tacori E-ring
Only YOU know what is right for your own life. Doesn''t matter if we are talking about buying a diamond or adopting children in your 40s. If you can afford spending 20K without doing into debt or sacrificing other things (like food, rent, retirement...) and it would make you both happy go for it. If not, there is nothing wrong downsizing your ring budget a bit. Good luck!

Could not have said it any better, Tacori!