IGI grading system

[rook02]

I've heard a lot of bad press on EGL and good stuff on GIA. How is IGI? Reliable to purchase online IGI diamond?

 

[mastercut]

Most of the people here will answer "NO! IGI is awful!". I do not agree. Antwerp IGI is not bad. Sometimes it is soft (mainly in case of VS2 and SI2), but sometimes even too strict. Anyway I have seen many very soft GIA grading. But would definitely avoid EGL.

If the price is very good and the IGI is the Antwerp one, I would give it a try - but only in case you can return it. You need to have this option anyway - regardless buying GIA, AGS or IGI.

 

[denverappraiser]

Most of the people here will answer "NO! IGI is awful!". I do not agree. Antwerp IGI is not bad. Sometimes it is soft (mainly in case of VS2 and SI2), but sometimes even too strict. Anyway I have seen many very soft GIA grading. But would definitely avoid EGL.

If the price is very good and the IGI is the Antwerp one, I would give it a try - but only in case you can return it. You need to have this option anyway - regardless buying GIA, AGS or IGI.

I'm inclined to agree. IGI-NY gets a bad rap primarily because of the 'appraisal' reports that they produce that both involve an incomplete inspection and poorly though out value conclusions. These are common in the mass market US stores like Walmart and Sears. IGI is a well regarded as a grading lab both in Europe and Asia where the services offered are very similar to what GIA offers.

With any lab it's worth noting that you're buying a diamond, not a report, and the lab didn't make it what it is and it's the dealer who is making a representation about it. The purpose of the lab is to reinforce the trust you are placing in the dealer, not as a substitute for it.

 

[rook02]

IGI Mumbai, India?

 

[mastercut]

IGI Mumbai, India?

I have seen very few of them, but those I have seen were not so bad. If I remember well Garry Holloway commented them in past like they do a good job, I assume he has seen many of the IGI Mumbai reports, so I would advise to ask him.
https://www.pricescope.com/users/garry_h_cut_nut

But again, whatever report you get you need to check the diamond when you get it and have an option to return it for the full refund.

 

[John P]

The prior posters are correct about IGI loose diamond reports.

There is negative sentiment in the USA but that has been arrived-at based on the "finished jewelry appraisal-reports" which are famously misused by salespeople to demonstrate what a "bargain" a piece is. That trend is unfortunate, as is the fact that those reports eclipse the number of IGI loose diamond reports issued in this country.

In the global picture IGI loose diamond reports are reputable. The IGI Antwerp lab has a strong history in Europe. IGI Mumbai is well respected and IGI Hong Kong has nothing short of a top reputation in Asia. In fact, during my travels to Asia over the last several years, my experience has been that the loose diamond grading results from the HK lab are considered on par with GIA, but with stronger consistency - and the IGI HK "Hearts & Arrows" grading report is valued as most elite; in much the same way that an AGS Ideal report is in the US.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I'd also agree that the IGI consults- even here in NYC are pretty much the same as what GIA will grade the diamond...but,
actually but ( a big but)
If we're talking about a stone with substantive value, IGI's accuracy is totally irrelevant.
I'll accept a $2,000 diamond with an IGI, but not a $10,000 one- because I know that market forces play a different role on higher dollar diamonds- that being you need GIA or AGSL to prove value in high dollar situations- in my experience, this is true in NYC, Israel, and Belgium

 

[rook02]

Looking at a diamond >1.6 ct. Would you suggest IGI-Mumbai or EGL-USA? Trying to find GIA but based on the clarity I want, it just doesn't seem to work with my budget.

 

[John P]

Looking at a diamond >1.6 ct. Would you suggest IGI-Mumbai or EGL-USA? Trying to find GIA but based on the clarity I want, it just doesn't seem to work with my budget.

From personal experience - others may have different opinions - I consider IGI Mumbai to be stricter and more consistent.

I'd also agree that the IGI consults- even here in NYC are pretty much the same as what GIA will grade the diamond...but,
actually but ( a big but)
If we're talking about a stone with substantive value, IGI's accuracy is totally irrelevant.
I'll accept a $2,000 diamond with an IGI, but not a $10,000 one- because I know that market forces play a different role on higher dollar diamonds- that being you need GIA or AGSL to prove value in high dollar situations- in my experience, this is true in NYC, Israel, and Belgium

The data on Rapnet supports your statements. In fact I'd offer that AGSL is minimal in that equation outside the USA. With that said, there are regional differences. For example, I know numerous Asian companies trust their extremely high-dollar finished pieces ($0.5m and up) to IGI HK for grading and documentation.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Looking at a diamond >1.6 ct. Would you suggest IGI-Mumbai or EGL-USA? Trying to find GIA but based on the clarity I want, it just doesn't seem to work with my budget.

I totally understand this logic- and it's exactly the reason why the sub-standard reports are such a problem
You're not going to get more for your money by forgoing a GIA graded diamond- in fact far more likely you'll get less diamond for your money buying a misgraded diamond.
Basically that same I1 that GIA graded, which EGL graded SI1 has the very same imperfection.

What is your budget for a 1.6ct- and what shape?

 

[rook02]

I essentially want a 1.65 - 2 ct round, I, VS2 or better, with excellent cut, HCA <2.0 for around $10,000 (+/- $500).

I don't mind the ct size to be smaller, but I want dimensions close to 7.7mm x 7.7mm.

I might be pushing it...but I have seen a couple diamond that fit what I want, and by the time I request information about them, I am told they are sold by their "supplier."

 

[John P]

I essentially want a 1.65 - 2 ct round, I, VS2 or better, with excellent cut, HCA <2.0 for around $10,000 (+/- $500).

I don't mind the ct size to be smaller, but I want dimensions close to 7.7mm x 7.7mm.

I might be pushing it...but I have seen a couple diamond that fit what I want, and by the time I request information about them, I am told they are sold by their "supplier."

You may indeed be asking for the moon. For the stats you're requesting you are below dealer cost: As of now, of 261 available 1.60-1.99 carat I VS2 GIA EX diamonds on our largest B2B platform, there are only 8 offered to professional dealers for less than $10K. Only two of those are in the USA and none that I see are HCA <2.0.

The first one in the USA scores 3.8 on the HCA. It could possibly be nice, but the angles are predicted AGS2 light performance.
https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2136240219&weight=1.60

The other scores 4.1 on the HCA and is predicted at AGS4 in light performance.
https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=5136630449&weight=1.60#

With nominal dealer costs added I anticipate that neither of these can realistically be offered for $10K. Is there any chance you can compromise on size, clarity or color? I am firmly in league with those who suggest that you not compromise on the accuracy of grading.

 

[denverappraiser]

I essentially want a 1.65 - 2 ct round, I, VS2 or better, with excellent cut, HCA <2.0 for around $10,000 (+/- $500).

I don't mind the ct size to be smaller, but I want dimensions close to 7.7mm x 7.7mm.

I might be pushing it...but I have seen a couple diamond that fit what I want, and by the time I request information about them, I am told they are sold by their "supplier."

Danger Will Robinson.

The problem here is that what you're asking for is a stone that someone called VS2, I and excellent cut. The biggest variable by far is who and exactly what they mean by those terms. You are acting under the assumption that the only difference is the masthead on the lab report or at least that there is some bargain available because the dealers don't know or understand the issue and you can do a conversion that they can't. This couldn't be farther from the truth. The lab was chosen because the dealer or their supplier thought they could get the most money the fastest with that pedigree. Period. Lab fees are close enough to the same that it makes no difference but GIA, who is the most expensive lab going, publishes their rates. A 2 carat stone is $154. That is to say, if the dealer could raise their price by more than $154 by sending it to GIA, they stand to make a profit by doing so. That and IGI wasn't free in the first place. Whoever sent it to them, chose to do so and paid for the privilege. Why? A assure you, it was not because they wanted to leave a bargain on the table, because they didn't know who GIA was or because they failed to understand the question.

 

[rook02]

Ok, that makes sense. I think the best bet for a purchase of this price, it to go with the most trusted. GIA it is.

I am willing to compromise on the clarity and go to SI1 or SI2 if it is eye clean.

 

[TC1987]

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9956/ Was placed on hold, but it was listed in the PS database for $10464. And it might not be totally eyeclean.

Otherwise, you have to drop lower in cut, clarity, color, or weight. Weight 1.3-14.ct might get you within budget. The 1.5ct - 1.6ct range is very much sought. If you find one, reserve it, then talk about it here. I've been looking off and on for something around 1.6ct, but that 1.5ct mark is one of the price points for a $/ct price jump. The "deals" will be under 1.5ct.

Most of the SI2s that I looked at in the 1.4 - 1.6ct range were not what I'd call eyeclean at close inspection. Maybe 10"-12" away, but not close-up.