I prefer people to use these tools as rejection tools. Narrow down to the best of the best. Especially with fancy shapes.Thanks for your view Winks and I totally agree that the tools help to discern a poor cut vs a well cut diamond but when we get to well cut diamonds, is it really better value or are we just buying a mind clean paper premium?
In the pict below, there are only 2 ASETs, one of a Whiteflash ACA and the other being a premium select. Yes, granted that I did pick the better premium select out, could we discern which is which? Even if we did, does that translate to marked brightness, scintillating differences in real life? If so, then why are we paying the premium for an ACA?
Great - yes - salespeople, shiver in fear!There’s an additional advantage of these things that isn’t mentioned above. When you go to a store to look at diamonds and you happen to have an Idealscope or ASET in your purse, it tells you something about the diamonds, but it also tells them something about YOU. It changes the whole direction of the sales presentation, and largely for the better.
I will play this game. The one on left is ACA and the one on right is Premium Select
Lol you are right!! Well done @flyingpig
Qs is would u pick it out in real life? Would those be stark differences?
I took the UK advice ...The last time I pulled out an ASET score in the UK I was told, "sparkle is a very simple formula, D sparkles with SI2, with H you need vs1"
@Wink I believe the community here holds you in high regard, myself included. And to the other trades for sharing information. There was no sacasm nor intent in my reply.
You have however made the assumption that the images were perhaps screen grabbed from the comforts of my couch. What I was trying to imply was with the ASET eliminating poor choices, and when we get to very well cut diamonds... where is the line drawn when you start to see diminishing value on return (visually). I have seen some of these stones (from a vendors superideal vs ideal range) and cannot tell the difference. Yes, some I could, but it was not a stark difference
Trades have chimed in previously that it can take up to 2 weeks of seeing the stone in different lighting to discern the subtle differences. And granted you see them everyday would have a more attuned visual palette to pick out these differences. But what of the lay person? Would the ASET help to eliminate bad choices and then we let our eyes do the picking?
Hypothetically, if everyone started shopping with an ASET, wouldn’t it start to shift the market towards better cut stones?
Whether one chooses the credentials of a superideal, is another story.
A qualified yes. I do think if more shoppers visited jewelry stores with tools to assess cut quality (not necessarily just ASET), the demand for well cut stones would be felt all the way back to the manufacturer. When GIA finally released their overall cut grade, shoppers started asking jewelers for the top grade. Today manufacturers are aiming for Triple Ex whenever economically feasible and the cut quality of rounds in general has improved greatly in a relatively short time. Internet shopping also had a lot to do with that, but the point is that this is a demand-driven improvement. Consumer demand starts with awareness and appreciation.@Wink
... What I was trying to imply was with the ASET eliminating poor choices, and when we get to very well cut diamonds... where is the line drawn when you start to see diminishing value on return (visually). I have seen some of these stones (from a vendors superideal vs ideal range) and cannot tell the difference. Yes, some I could, but it was not a stark difference
Trades have chimed in previously that it can take up to 2 weeks of seeing the stone in different lighting to discern the subtle differences. And granted you see them everyday would have a more attuned visual palette to pick out these differences. But what of the lay person? Would the ASET help to eliminate bad choices and then we let our eyes do the picking?
Hypothetically, if everyone started shopping with an ASET, wouldn’t it start to shift the market towards better cut stones?
Yes, 2 weeks or so.This reminds me of seeing who can sing in tune. Some people can and others can’t. Everyone can learn, if they wish to, although it takes some people more time than others (that is me, raising my hand!). I believe our friend @Karl_K suggests a practical time-frame (maybe 2 weeks) that allows the average person to really appreciate performance nuances. But people vary. Some of my clients see micro details immediately. Others detect them when I predict what will occur in certain lighting. Yet other people do not seem to value even trying. People are different.
I was once shoplifted by a guy who I am sure had training as a magician. Complete slight of hand, misdirection, distraction, while talking cordially the whole time. An expensive diamond bracelet. After a long period of extreme distress, I can now look back on that incident with a certain amount respect for his skill.I have often wondered if jewellery stores would bar David Blaine and Dynamo from their premises before they've even entered...
This is true. But there are many reasons why a customer chooses one over another. Local shoppers offer a wider mix of people with different preferences it seems. Many of them are only familiar with GIA or have been advised only to buy GIA. And often they are first time diamond shoppers and have not developed a critical eye for diamonds. When all the stones they are viewing are well cut, they tend to focus on things like color, clarity preferences or getting a little bigger stone for the money.
@Texas Leaguer if I’m not wrong, you made the comment in past post that pple who shop over the internet pick an ACA but those who walk-in might end up with a Premium or ES selection. Perhaps there are some budget constraints or perhaps they could not equate the price premium with what they saw optically.
I don’t believe there is a “premium” for careful cutting. The cost basis is higher, but for a defensible reason. What I do see are discounts for deviations from optimum cutting, but those discounts are not always in the buyer’s best interest, and are often not disclosed.
ESPECIALLY in clear differences of fire and scintillation.
If you walked into a B&M store whereby either you or the jeweller had a ASET and showed you the following scope images, would you choose not to buy it just because it had a GIA cert?
@EncikG , I certainly understand your point. Diamond shoppers are always presented with tradeoffs, and people respond very differently depending on their general approach as consumers, their circumstances, and their needs and desires around a particular purchase. There is no right or wrong answer, provided they have the information to make an informed decision.I find our differing views on this quite interesting.
Why does someone choose a D, IF for perfection they cannot see. While others are pushing the color boundaries of H and I, not wanting to pay a premium for color they cannot perceive. The same can be said for cutting. I fully acknowledge the higher cost of precision cutting. But from a consumer point of view, when shown 2 stones of high quality (such as those of Whiteflash ACA vs ES), when one does not have the 2weeks to critique nor have the visual acuity to pick out the micro differences, the difference in price is often considered a premium. The caveat in this of course is that you need to work with a vendor or B&M store that sells high quality stones to begin with
It is not that we do not want to learn to sing in a choir. Sometimes, one only needs to sing once in their lifetime. Which brings me back to the question of using these scopes. If one does not choose to go down the path of a superideal, would the use of these tools be sufficient enough to eliminate a lot of poorly cut stones such that we dun really end up wearing a dud at a dinner party...
Another point that I think is relevant, and I agree with @Wink perspective about the somewhat erroneous view that a well cut diamond costs a premium. The way I look at it a gem quality diamond is a precious material that by all rights should be crafted by default with the greatest care, and with a philosophy of bringing out it's full potential. Any compromises in this area accrue as discounts to the default value. And to this point, I would say that the price differential between a superbly crafted diamond and a commercial make is very small compared to the price differential between H/I VS vs DEF/IF-VVS, and the benefits often much more noticeable.
I find our differing views on this quite interesting.
Why does someone choose a D, IF for perfection they cannot see. While others are pushing the color boundaries of H and I, not wanting to pay a premium for color they cannot perceive. The same can be said for cutting. I fully acknowledge the higher cost of precision cutting. But from a consumer point of view, when shown 2 stones of high quality (such as those of Whiteflash ACA vs ES), when one does not have the 2 weeks to critique nor have the visual acuity to pick out the micro differences, the difference in price is often considered a premium. The caveat in this of course is that you need to work with a vendor or B&M store that sells high quality stones to begin with
It is not that we do not want to learn to sing in a choir. Sometimes, one only needs to sing once in their lifetime. Which brings me back to the question of using these scopes. If one does not choose to go down the path of a superideal, would the use of these tools be sufficient enough to eliminate a lot of poorly cut stones such that we dun really end up wearing a dud at a dinner party...
Another point that I think is relevant, and I agree with @Wink perspective about the somewhat erroneous view that a well cut diamond costs a premium.
* Result from the producer is a 3.00 ct F VS1 GIA EX now-selling for $ 82,366. Notable leakage. Spread of 9.12mm
In light of all the complex and difficult decisions we put.consumers thru; how long I wonder does it take an average or mean consumer to buy a diamond or a diamond engagement ring?
This.Good question,
Before finding this forum I knew absolutely nothing about diamonds. To educate myself properly it took me about 4 months start to finish to make the right decision buying an engagement ring.
because I want to make sure I am aware of all the facts and am not going to be hoodwinked into buying crap.