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How to see arrows in the diamond?

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summerluv

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Feb 5, 2009
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19
Hi everyone,
I just got my ring today. I like how it looks but I''m little confused that I cannot see the arrows in my rock no matter what. This is the stone i bought

I know it''s not an H&A but the arrows seem pretty defined. I saw the thread of all the girls showing their arrows and I''m so jealous! I know some dear PSer told me the arrows are only visible in certain lighting. But I''ve tried them all and I just cannot to see them. Is this normal? How do girls capture such stunning arrow shots? Is my diamond no good?

Also I noticed that in natural light the diamond doesn''t really sparkle so much. Umm I''m starting to wonder if my rock is no good? =/

Thank you!
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
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The arrows are due to head shadow. Try looking at it closer, maybe less than 10 inches away from the stone?

Your stone should be fine.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,427
Hi summer,

If you just got your ring today, you have lots of lighting left to explore.
Also, I wonder if you're seeing them, without knowing you're seeing them. Mine never look black in real life, like they do in my arrow thread (which is from the camera obstructing light), they look silvery. I would think from your IS pic you should see them, just keep an eye out. But don't drive yourself crazy, enjoy your diamond!



p.s. To get a good arrow shot with your camera, put the ring on a windowsill.
 

honey22

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
4,458
Ellen is THE master of taking arrow shots, she is the best.

The window sill is the easiest and best place but bear in mind, for every 50 or so shots you take, a couple will look perfect. It''s not easy and you need patience!

Another fabulous place for silvery arrows in the fridge, although this photoshoot is best done in warmer weather, it can get chilly


Good luck
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Aw, you are too kind miss. Thank you!

And that fridge/freezer thread was cool. (pun intended)
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/21/2009 4:50:24 PM
Author: Ellen
Hi summer,

If you just got your ring today, you have lots of lighting left to explore.
Also, I wonder if you''re seeing them, without knowing you''re seeing them. Mine never look black in real life, like they do in my arrow thread (which is from the camera obstructing light), they look silvery. I would think from your IS pic you should see them, just keep an eye out. But don''t drive yourself crazy, enjoy your diamond!
Exactly. Ellen knows how to capture arrows because she''s all jiggy to obstruction (aka obscuration, head shadow, black in IS, blue in ASET)...

As you probably know, ''arrows'' are the bottommost facets - pavilion mains - seen through the diamond''s table. When a camera''s dark lens is held very close to the diamond and perfectly level with the table those mains "reflect" the darkness of the lens.

The crisper the pattern the more precisely the facets are aligned in terms of 3D cut precision. This the diamond''s contrast pattern. Not all diamonds will show crisp arrows but all diamonds with good contrast will have a balanced pattern.




The pro photos...magnified, ASET, Ideal-Scope, hearts, arrows...you see on cut-focused sites are taken in controlled environments with lighting and leveling done to make the effect prominent.

You can see the arrows even with slight tilt, but as Ellen says they will look silvery unless you are blocking the light from directly overhead, close up.
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
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My wife took her ring off to cook something (it's smelling pretty good) so I thought I'd show a dark-arrow and silvery-arrow 'capture.'

This is far from professional, just a clinical home demo. Having seen the photos some of these PS consumer enthusiasts capture this will pale by comparison, but for anyone wanting to see arrows it works in a pinch.

If no windowsill is avilable, use diffused light from above. I have white walls so light is also reflected from the sides (I moved the phone for this).

obstruction-casualsetup-home.jpg
 

Ellen

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Date: 2/21/2009 7:21:28 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 2/21/2009 4:50:24 PM
Author: Ellen
Hi summer,

If you just got your ring today, you have lots of lighting left to explore.
Also, I wonder if you''re seeing them, without knowing you''re seeing them. Mine never look black in real life, like they do in my arrow thread (which is from the camera obstructing light), they look silvery. I would think from your IS pic you should see them, just keep an eye out. But don''t drive yourself crazy, enjoy your diamond!
Exactly. Ellen knows how to capture arrows because she''s all jiggy to obstruction (aka obscuration, head shadow, black in IS, blue in ASET)...
Ok, this cracked me up. Almost made obstruction sound cool/fun.
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
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3,563
OK. Dark arrows...silvery arrows...


1. Put the camera lens very close to the diamond's table. It will need to be very level to properly obstruct the mains.

2. As you move the camera away you'll see less and less obstruction.

3. In this case my camera was not directly between the light source and the diamond, so as I moved it away the mains became silvery.

* Forgive the fingerprints and dust. Late night out and these rings are filthy.


1.57ct: 3 inches and 10 inches.

157-3inches-10inches.jpg
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
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Same thing with 0.78ct: 3 inches and 10 inches.

I changed the white balance on my point-and-shoot (Canon SD850) to ''flourescent'' for the 3 inch shots. It helped darken the arrows.

078-3inches-10inches.jpg
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/21/2009 7:34:26 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 2/21/2009 7:21:28 PM
Author: John Pollard

Exactly. Ellen knows how to capture arrows because she''s all jiggy to obstruction (aka obscuration, head shadow, black in IS, blue in ASET)...
Ok, this cracked me up. Almost made obstruction sound cool/fun.
Hey it is! How else would I want to spend 20 minutes on a Saturday afternoon in DFW?

You, me and our fellow charter members of the OCD club could burn hours doing this...
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
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24,427
Date: 2/21/2009 7:39:58 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 2/21/2009 7:34:26 PM
Author: Ellen


Date: 2/21/2009 7:21:28 PM
Author: John Pollard

Exactly. Ellen knows how to capture arrows because she''s all jiggy to obstruction (aka obscuration, head shadow, black in IS, blue in ASET)...
Ok, this cracked me up. Almost made obstruction sound cool/fun.
Hey it is! How else would I want to spend 20 minutes on a Saturday afternoon in DFW?

You, me and our fellow charter members of the OCD club could burn hours doing this...
Sadly, that''s true.



Great pics sir!!
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,619
John, thanks for that tutorial! Your pics look great. I tried this morning to get some more good pics - it is so difficult! Biggest problem is that I had the ring on my hand so that makes it very difficult. Obviously you need to have the ring stationery and hold the camera very still.

One question though - did you have the camera zoomed all the way in and then focused or was it zoomed in like halfway then focused? It's very easy to get a big, blurry picture and then have to tamp down the urge to throw the d**ned camera across the room! I have a Canon SD800IS so I think I should be able to get some pretty decent shots - I have beautiful arrows!!

OK, I lied. Second question. Do you mind me asking what the color of the stones you were photographing are?
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/21/2009 8:01:12 PM
Author: MissGotRocks
John, thanks for that tutorial! Your pics look great. I tried this morning to get some more good pics - it is so difficult! Biggest problem is that I had the ring on my hand so that makes it very difficult. Obviously you need to have the ring stationery and hold the camera very still.

One question though - did you have the camera zoomed all the way in and then focused or was it zoomed in like halfway then focused? It''s very easy to get a big, blurry picture and then have to tamp down the urge to throw the d**ned camera across the room! I have a Canon SD800IS so I think I should be able to get some pretty decent shots - I have beautiful arrows!!
My pleasure MGR.

I was lucky ma wfy be tendin da fyr - or I''d never have gotten the ring from her.

My camera holding is pretty steady (I am a trained drummer you know)
but I do place the diamond in a holder. This for me, and so I don''t drive whoever''s wearing it crazy. The 850 also has a reduced-blur feature which the 800 may also have?

For those shots I used digital macro, 0 exp, fluor wb (3 inches) auto wb (10 inches), colors off, evaluative, fine (use superfine if you want a printable photo), largest WxH.

My method is to use no zoom first and depress the photo button to auto-focus (green square comes on). Then I zoom about halfway and auto-focus again. This affirms that the camera is focusing on the table. The optimum focal depth for arrows is debatable but I''m working with a tiny point & click while chicken is cooking in the other room, so table focus works fine for me today.

One thing I do whenever the shutter will remain open: Set the 2-sec self timer. That gives you time to depress the button and hold the camera very steady.


OK, I lied. Second question. Do you mind me asking what the color of the stones you were photographing are?
Not at all, and I am sure Angela won''t mind, but I should check as a courtesy. Then she''ll ask me why... I''ll tell her... She''ll ask to see the thread... I''ll show her... She''ll see those dusty, fingerprinty photos of her precious - and there is a good chance she will grouch me.

Can I wait until after we''ve had our Sauvignon Blanc with dinner? Better timing!
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,619
Thanks for the tips. I''ll try it again when I can look at my camera without growling. . .grrr! I was so frustrated this am . . . was in a hurry and obviously the two don''t mix!

Whatever you do don''t upset the wife - no matter what the outcome! If she''s good enough to cook that chicken I surely wouldn''t trouble her with diamond questions! (I''ve fried a few chicks in my day - ha!) I just had a thought about color differences (mine is a G) but on second thought, that won''t have anything to do with photographing arrows - just a brain bubble! Just enjoy your evening!
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/21/2009 8:50:17 PM
Author: MissGotRocks
Thanks for the tips. I'll try it again when I can look at my camera without growling. . .grrr! I was so frustrated this am . . . was in a hurry and obviously the two don't mix!

Whatever you do don't upset the wife - no matter what the outcome! If she's good enough to cook that chicken I surely wouldn't trouble her with diamond questions! (I've fried a few chicks in my day - ha!) I just had a thought about color differences (mine is a G) but on second thought, that won't have anything to do with photographing arrows - just a brain bubble! Just enjoy your evening!
Roger wilco, though I'll still confess later.


You're right that color doesn't factor into obstruction in this situation. Moreover, camera settings and surroundings (like your shirt color) often influence what you see in photos. Mine is a G too, by the way (the 0.78).
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Good deal . . . my mother always says you don''t have to tell everything you know. . . I''ve learned she''s right
!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/21/2009 7:37:19 PM
Author: John Pollard
Same thing with 0.78ct: 3 inches and 10 inches.

I changed the white balance on my point-and-shoot (Canon SD850) to ''flourescent'' for the 3 inch shots. It helped darken the arrows.
Graet shots!!!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/21/2009 7:43:48 PM
Author: Ellen


Date: 2/21/2009 7:39:58 PM
Author: John Pollard



Date: 2/21/2009 7:34:26 PM
Author: Ellen




Date: 2/21/2009 7:21:28 PM
Author: John Pollard

Exactly. Ellen knows how to capture arrows because she's all jiggy to obstruction (aka obscuration, head shadow, black in IS, blue in ASET)...
Ok, this cracked me up. Almost made obstruction sound cool/fun.
Hey it is! How else would I want to spend 20 minutes on a Saturday afternoon in DFW?

You, me and our fellow charter members of the OCD club could burn hours doing this...
Sadly, that's true.



Great pics sir!!
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
should have cleaned it before returning it then she would be distracted by the bling and forget to be mad at ya!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
42,064
Date: 2/22/2009 7:01:28 AM
Author: strmrdr
should have cleaned it before returning it then she would be distracted by the bling and forget to be mad at ya!
LOL!! Good idea!
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
24,427
Date: 2/22/2009 6:11:07 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 2/21/2009 7:43:48 PM
Author: Ellen



Date: 2/21/2009 7:39:58 PM
Author: John Pollard




Date: 2/21/2009 7:34:26 PM
Author: Ellen





Date: 2/21/2009 7:21:28 PM
Author: John Pollard

Exactly. Ellen knows how to capture arrows because she''s all jiggy to obstruction (aka obscuration, head shadow, black in IS, blue in ASET)...
Ok, this cracked me up. Almost made obstruction sound cool/fun.
Hey it is! How else would I want to spend 20 minutes on a Saturday afternoon in DFW?

You, me and our fellow charter members of the OCD club could burn hours doing this...
Sadly, that''s true.



Great pics sir!!
lol! I kept trying to find your response. ''Twas hidden it was.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 2/22/2009 8:17:46 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 2/22/2009 6:11:07 AM
Author: Lorelei


Date: 2/21/2009 7:43:48 PM
Author: Ellen




Date: 2/21/2009 7:39:58 PM
Author: John Pollard





Date: 2/21/2009 7:34:26 PM
Author: Ellen






Date: 2/21/2009 7:21:28 PM
Author: John Pollard

Exactly. Ellen knows how to capture arrows because she''s all jiggy to obstruction (aka obscuration, head shadow, black in IS, blue in ASET)...
Ok, this cracked me up. Almost made obstruction sound cool/fun.
Hey it is! How else would I want to spend 20 minutes on a Saturday afternoon in DFW?

You, me and our fellow charter members of the OCD club could burn hours doing this...
Sadly, that''s true.



Great pics sir!!
lol! I kept trying to find your response. ''Twas hidden it was.
Hehehehe!!!! T''was on purpose, t''was!
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,427




summer, do let us know how it''s going!
 

Deelight

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
5,543
If you just want to see arrows for yourself I find if the best way to make them show is to go somewhere with good overhead lighting like the bathroom and cup your hand around the diamond in a tube shape and look through - you should see arrows ;-).

John Those pics were cool, I will have to try it, never ever have been able to get good arrow shots
 

cellentani

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Messages
3,820
I have to say, I''ve never seen arrows unless it''s through my camera lens - I don''t know if it''s a two-eye, stereoscopic thing vs. a single lens, monoscopic thing. I don''t have as fancy a camera as John''s, but I can still get arrows with my Cannon PowerShot SD1000. Unlike John, I don''t engage the digital zoom (not good on my cheap, little camera); I just use the macro, no flash, and in the photo, my lens is about 1.25-inches to 1.5-inches away from the front of my diamond.

Keep trying Summer, we want to see you in the Arrow thread!

Arrows for Summerluv.JPG
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
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3,563
Date: 2/22/2009 11:17:43 AM
Author: cellentani
I have to say, I've never seen arrows unless it's through my camera lens - I don't know if it's a two-eye, stereoscopic thing vs. a single lens, monoscopic thing. I don't have as fancy a camera as John's, but I can still get arrows with my Cannon PowerShot SD1000. Unlike John, I don't engage the digital zoom (not good on my cheap, little camera); I just use the macro, no flash, and in the photo, my lens is about 1.25-inches to 1.5-inches away from the front of my diamond.

Keep trying Summer, we want to see you in the Arrow thread!
Not so fancy. It was just a PowerShot SD850, so we're not far off. Nice artistic photo by the way!

For company-quality photos a good SLR can be a dream. Our Minnesota dealer just produced a print catalogue using a Nikon D3 that had my jaw on the floor. I'd love to get a D300.
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/22/2009 7:01:28 AM
Author: strmrdr
should have cleaned it before returning it then she would be distracted by the bling and forget to be mad at ya!
Great minds Karl...the ultrasonic was running when she came in to tell me dinner was ready.
 
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