Help on a Princess Cut

[STubber]

I have gone through forum topics (learned alot, thanks!) and was wondering if anyone could help me make a decision on this Princess cut ring, based on information (I know limited a bit) provided. It is a web purchase, with a return policy, and I have not seen the ring. Price is around $2,500.

measurments: 5.79 x 5.62 x 4.63
weight: 1.08 c
depth: 81%
table: 74%
girdle: medium
culet: none
polish: good
symmetry: very good
clarity: VS2
color: G

comments on report (Global International Gemologists?): Graded as mounting permits.

Here is a picture:

Thanks in advance for any help

Scott

 

[belle]

price seems low........

the depth of 81% is on the deep side.

i''d be curious to know the crown and pavillion angles.....

where are you purchasing the ring from? can you get more information?

 

[denverappraiser]

Maybe it's just a bad picture but I see quite a bit in that stone for a VS2. Can you get some more pictures to compare with?

I've never heard of the lab that graded it but I must adimit I like the name. I briefly considered using the name 'Grand Intergalactic Assesors' but the acronym was taken.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[reena]

81 depth? holy carp.

 

[STubber]

Here is the report:

and here is another picture:

 

[moremoremore]

OK- I am going to be harsh here. But it''s tough love for your own good. You need to get a grip! There is NO way in heck that you are actually getting a G vs2 stone for that price. Even a really poorly cut one on dirt cheap is more. The cert is worthelss b/c who knows who that is?
Let''s even say you''re getting the stone in the pic? It looks flat and glassy and gray. I would prefer a smaller, nice diamond. Doesn''t have to be perfect...but nice. That''s not nice...and usually, the pix are taken to flatter! Tough love.

 

[reena]

plus with that depth and those measurements, it''s going to look much smaller than a 1 carat stone. that alone would be a dealbreaker for me.

 

[moremoremore]

GRADED AS MOUNTING PERMITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HA!!!!!! So basically, they take no responsibility and they are pulling a fast one. "Oh, it LOOKED like a vs2...yeah right....and it LOOKED like a G...yeah right!

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=3571559

 

[STubber]

Belle:

It''s an ebay auction (that ends in an hour and a half but have been researching for a few days). The seller (nycjewelers) has 100% favorable reviews on 800 sales and there is a 5-day return policy full money back.

I am thinking of calling GIG for crown and pavillion angles.

Thanks for response,

Scott

 

[STubber]

MMM:

You call that harsh?

I have thicker skin than that.

Thanks for the opinion. I didn''t think the stone looked as bad as you described though.

Scott

 

[moremoremore]

If they actually give you the crown and pavillion angles...I''ll buy the stone for you LOL...Dude, it''s a stinker. Pass. I just don''t understand why people think they can get the deal of a lifetime on ebay. Sometimes it can be done, but not from jewelry power sellers. Sorry. Tough love.

 

[denverappraiser]

MMM,

Careful about that offer. They may be willing to supply crown angles that have been determined as mounting permits.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[reena]

Date: 12/15/2004 10:48:17 AM
Author: moremoremore
If they actually give you the crown and pavillion angles...I''ll buy the stone for you LOL...Dude, it''s a stinker. Pass. I just don''t understand why people think they can get the deal of a lifetime on ebay. Sometimes it can be done, but not from jewelry power sellers. Sorry. Tough love.

exactly. with very few exceptions, you''re really going to get what you pay for. that international federation of galactic warriors cert or whatever it is should be enough of a red flag.

and a five-day return period sounds terrifying to me. does it exlude shipping time? cause otherwise, it''s gonna be yours to keep.

cap''n says p - a - s - s.

 

[STubber]

Reena,
Thanks. Everyone that has posted a review of the seller has indicated that there is no problem with returning the stone or getting your money back.

Scott

 

[Kaleigh]

Scott,
STAY AWAY FROM EBAY

 

[STubber]

Kaliegh:

Thanks for a response - do you have a specific reason for that Ebay warning?

Scott

 

[Binki]

Scott:
I''m a big fan of Ebay and wanted to get my engagement ring there, too. The deals appear to be fabulous. I found that I could get a 3.0 to 4.0 carat stone in my price range. Then I spoke to a gemologist and appraiser. This is what I was advised:

1. Many large Ebay stones are enhanced.
2. Enhanced stones means it has been chemically treated for clarity and sometimes for color.
3. Enhancement is also used to inject a clear hard substance into cracks and crevices.
4. These stones may actually be broken if your fiance'' accidentally hits her hand against a hard surface such as a windshield.
5. Enhanced stones are worth $500 per carat and you will never be able to resell it.
6. You will not be able to insure it. Insurance companies consider them to be worthless.

If the stone is not enhanced, it may be very pretty and your fiance may actually love it. There is a very good chance that if the stone has not been GIA certified, that you may not be getting exactly what you are looking for.

Here''s my opinion on buying from Ebay. Ebay rocks!
Here''s my opinion on buying diamonds on Ebay. If you have a very modest budget and you want the maximum bling for your sweetheart, Ebay is the place to get it with all of the above things being kept in mind.

Buy the best that you can afford. The two of you will be certain to be happy with it. I have bought lots of jewelry from Ebay and I have never been disappointed. I have bought diamond cluster rings which are very, very nice. But I was told that with my budget, Ebay was not the place to purchase an engagement ring.

Everyone''s situation is different. Diamonds are very expensive. Do your research, then do the best you can.

 

[moremoremore]

LOL Denver!!!

Stubber- not all ebay auctions are a rip off. There was a guy who got a lovely princess stone and setting on ebay. It was a regular ol seller...not a store...selling a stone from a proposal gone bad. He MET the seller somewhere and they had it appraised...That''s the way to do it right on ebay!
All of these other sales are a scam. Do you know how EASY is it to BUY good feedback on ebay? It''s like a buck for good feedback. I actually LOVE ebay. I''ve sold so much china that I no longer like that people probably thought it was a scam. I sold a .35 H eye clean princess diamond for like $150 bucks on ebay!!!!! There are some ebay stores that do have good merchandise and a good price. But if this is SUCH a great deal...how does the store win ? They win b/c it''s not a good deal for what you will actually get. Duh!

 

[reena]

sure.

reason 1

reason 2

reason 3

reason 4

reason 5

reason 6

reason 7

reason 8

i can find more if you would like.

look, there are a few good ebay sellers who are excpetions to the rule (diamondsbylauren comes to mind, from what i''ve heard), and occasionally there may be a good deal to be found on ebay (usually by private individuals who need to unload a stone). but the fact of the matter is, those are exceptions.

it''s extremely frustrating because every week we see new people post here asking for advice about some "too good to be true" deal from some huge ebay seller, and almost always they''re looking at a crap stone or one that''s almost certainly not going to be as advertised. but when people chime in and tell them to be wary, they''re dismissive. the bottom line is, you can do what you want, but personally i would never trust such a large and important purchase to some random ebay seller i know nothing about. and the fact that you''re dealing with what is for all intents and purposes an uncertified stone is really the nail in the proverbial coffin.

good luck.

 

[STubber]

Thanks Binki for the response without sarcasm. I have been trying to research as much as I can.

Some of noted characteristics in the responses here (e.g., depth) may be contributing to the low cost. Some other responses don''t really seem supported, but are appreciated anyways.

The seller states very clearly that the diamonds are not enhanced or treated in any way. I would like to think that of 800 sales, one would have posted a negative response if a ring was found to be enhanced.

It looks like I may let this one go by the wayside, as the auction ends in 10 minutes and I may still asking some questions. I have a call into the appraisor. Too bad, as I really like the princess cut. But I am looking at a few others on Ebay, which are round brilliant.

I have a very reputable jeweler here in NJ that is a family friend of a coworker, and worst case I will return ring after he looks at if ring turns out to be crap.

Does anyone know the significance of his certification (GIA) under the name on the appraisal report?

Thanks again for all the responses.

 

[Binki]

I''m not an appraisal expert, but I know that GIA standards are considered much higher than others. In other words, if GIA says it SI1 and F color. You can bank on the fact that it''s SI1 and F color.

If some other certifications say SI1 and F color, it may be SI2 and H.

This is how it was explained to me. But with an untrained eye, there may be little difference visually between an SI1 and an SI2. F is considered colorless and H is very nearly colorless. So again, an untrained eye may not know the difference.

An expert appraiser or jeweler certainly would know the difference, but your fiance'' is not either of those.

 

[valeria101]

So.. it may not be G-VS2... J-SI2 (actually, I can see lots of hairy inclusuions in that picture - SI2 may be optimistic looking at that) comes to mind. And with those proportions may or may not look OK, who knows? There is no standard for ideal princess cuts as yet. The stone should have virtually no crown at all - very flat, so it still has good sperad despite the deep cut.

It's not that you would not find a princess cut for that amount: it remains up to you if 'something' labeled G/VS sounds better than J/SI on a reputable lab report

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 12/15/2004 11:56:44 AM
Author: Binki

Then I spoke to a gemologist and appraiser. This is what I was advised:

1. Many large Ebay stones are enhanced.
2. Enhanced stones means it has been chemically treated for clarity and sometimes for color.
3. Enhancement is also used to inject a clear hard substance into cracks and crevices.
4. These stones may actually be broken if your fiance'' accidentally hits her hand against a hard surface such as a windshield.
5. Enhanced stones are worth $500 per carat and you will never be able to resell it.
6. You will not be able to insure it. Insurance companies consider them to be worthless.

I waited until the end of the auction to post this because it doesn’t really relate to Scott’s original question.

I want to address Binki’s comments:

1. Many large Ebay stones are enhanced.
True, but this is not an inherent problem with ebay, or with enhanced stones. This has to do with bogus sellers who are misrepresenting their products. It’s illegal to sell stones as natural untreated stones when this is not the case. Sellers who misrepresent their wares are certainly a problem, but it’s not a function of the enhancement or their choice of selling venues.
2. Enhanced stones means it has been chemically treated for clarity and sometimes for color.
Most of the treatments aren’t actually chemical but basically this is correct, the intention of enhancement is to improve the visual appearance of the diamond. This usually means clarity, color, or both.
3. Enhancement is also used to inject a clear hard substance into cracks and crevices.
This is called fracture filling and it is one of several types of enhancements available. It seems to be the one that causes the most stress. More info is available at www.yehuda.com although there are several other manufactures in this business as well. Yehuda is the oldest and largest. Personally, I think they''re still the best.
4. These stones may actually be broken if your fiance'' accidentally hits her hand against a hard surface such as a windshield.
All diamonds can be broken in the circumstances you describe. Some low clarity stones or stones with certain cutting problems are more fragile than others but the filling does not increase this problem except.
5. Enhanced stones are worth $500 per carat and you will never be able to resell it.
False. Fracture filled stones have a viable market and there are many different qualities. They are significantly less expensive than similar untreated natural stones but there is no fixed value for them. Some are better than others. For most customers, reselling diamonds is a huge problem anyway. Ebay, to use the subject at hand, has tons of examples of consumers who successfully resell enhanced stones.
6. You will not be able to insure it. Insurance companies consider them to be worthless.
False. An insurance company is welcome to decline to bind a policy on whatever they wish but the vast majority will be happy to insure enhanced stones as long as they are properly disclosed as such. If you file a claim, they will replace with another enhanced stone, and they may disallow your claim if you omitted important information (like the fracture filling) when you wrote the policy. If the dealer properly describes what they are selling, and the appraiser writes a complete and accurate report you should not have a problem.
Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Binki]

Neil:
Thank you for your information. I was reiterating to Scott what was told to me when I almost bought a ring on Ebay. Also, my fiance''s insurance company would not insure an enhanced stone bought from Ebay. Apparently, they are aware of the value consideration and the frequent litigation over such items. My appraiser was no slouch. She is Nancy Stacy in Walnut Creek, California. You can see her at http://www.jewelry-appraisal.com

We are grateful to her for the incredible advice and services she performed.

Barb

 

[denverappraiser]

Binki,

I certainly agree that Nancy is no slouch. There may have been some context issues associated with her statements that haven''t translated well to the forum. She is a regular here and perhaps she will take the time to comment.

I don''t really care for being the designated defender of CE stones on the forum because there is so much fraudlent behaviour going on involving them but I think the manufacturers get more of the blame than they disserve. The primary problem is with the dealers, not with the products.

Who was the insurance company?

Neil

 

[Binki]

Neil:
It was his home insurance policy. I''m not sure who it is, but I will find out for you. My understanding is that Nancy is currently involved, or was recently involved, in providing expert testimony in a law suit over an enhanced stone. She hates them.

I personally feel that there is certainly a place for them. I really did not have a problem with an enhanced stone because I wanted size. But after speaking to several appraisers, including Nancy, there was no way my fiance would every pay money for one.

I would love a nice pair of earrings or a pendant done with enhanced stones, but I would not pay a fortune for them after everything I have been told about them. Also, I would have to buy it myself, since my fiance'' has been pursuaded to be a purist when it comes to diamonds.

I''m glad that you are hear to give the positive points about enhanced stones. There are quite a few bad sellers out there who pass these off without disclosure. It''s important for the buyer to know that the stone is enhanced and exactly what that means in terms of value and quality.

 

[reena]

Date: 12/15/2004 12:15:55 PM
Author: STubber
Thanks Binki for the response without sarcasm. I have been trying to research as much as I can.

stubber, my response to you was not meant to be sarcastic. you requested honest advice, and i gave it you. you are certainly free to do whatever you choose, but you did ask for opinions. i think it''s rude to disparage my remarks simply because i took a position that you obviously didn''t want to hear.

 

[denverappraiser]

Reena,

I think I was actually the culprit for the sarcasm with my unsolicited comment about the Grand Intergalactic Grading Council.

Neil

 

[reena]

Date: 12/15/2004 2:13:29 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Reena,

I think I was actually the culprit for the sarcasm with my unsolicited comment about the Grand Intergalactic Grading Council.

Neil

ah. if that''s in fact the case i owe stubber an apology. i thought he was referring to one of my posts. (or to my own reference to the grading company as the international federation of galactic warriors )

 

[Nicrez]

Are they grading diamonds? Wow, think they have an open spot for a grader? I need a job...