Help me Buy a High-Quality Diamond

[Kran]

Hi PriceScopers!

I am going to propose to my girlfriend next year and I am now searching for a round diamond for her engagement ring. I have started early so I wont need to buy in a hurry.

My budget is quite flexible. I was planning on spending around 8000$; however, if I do find a very beautiful diamond and setting, I will be able to spend up a little bit more, up to 15000$, without it becoming much of a burden. My girlfriend is a modest woman, so I plan on buying a diamond in the 1.0-1.3ct range. Hopefully that leaves room for buying a super-ideal cut with very high-color and clarity. She is color-sensitive and has pretty sharp eyes, so she will be able to notice the investment in color and clarity that I plan on making.

She is also quite nerdy, so I actually think she would enjoy fluorescence - so even strong or very strong fluorescence would be plus. However, I am very very worried about overgrading of color and milkiness, so I need advice from you guys, otherwise I will end up going without fluoro.

Thank you very much for your suggestions!

 

[lalala]

I'd look at Brian Gavin Blue if you think she'll like fluorescence. I'm pretty sure the other super ideal vendors do not have fluorescence but I could be wrong.

 

[lalala]

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.245-g-vs1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104096323018

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I would go with a superideal cut without fluorescence just due to the possible overgrading of color (although if you're aiming for D-F, it might be ok). I wouldn't worry about fluorescence causing milkiness in a higher clarity stone as long as it is strong or less. If you are ready to buy now, we can link stones. Otherwise, come back and post when you're ready to buy!

 

[Dancing Fire]

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.245-g-vs1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104096323018

Nice stone!

 

[valeria101]

.
I'd say a true diamond head would want white, yelow, green fluorescence ,-) How do I know ? Don't ask ... [orange-pink is quite rare, it would seem; & all come in patterns - mentioned around here]

In any case, the usual blue is beautiful and clearly visible under proper lighting, even in GIA 'Medium' intensity. It is not uncommon.

2c

 

[lalala]

.
I'd say a true diamond head would want white, yelow, green fluorescence ,-) How do I know ? Don't ask ... [orange-pink is quite rare, it would seem; & all come in patterns - mentioned around here]

In any case, the usual blue is beautiful and clearly visible under proper lighting, even in GIA 'Medium' intensity. It is not uncommon.

2c

So cool! I remember a thread not too long ago on here with pink fluorescence.. very intriguing!

 

[valeria101]

.
Now that I am thinking, there hasn't been a diamond band with 'strong blue' diamonds around here - although there is hardly any downside of fluorescence in meleé.

Just a thought ...

 

[lalala]

.
Now that I am thinking, there hasn't been a diamond band with 'strong blue' diamonds around here - although there is hardly any downside of fluorescence in meleé.

Just a thought ...

Makes me think of this:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/getting-five-highly-fluorescent-stones.235380

Although, I do not know the outcome

 

[PintoBean]

Have you had a frank discussion with you girlfriend about upgrading? Would she be interested in upgrading in the future? Or would she want to keep the original e-ring and get a second larger one? This can help us guide you to the appropriate vendor recommendations.

 

[Kran]

Thanks for all the replies. This 1.245 G VS1 Brian Gavin Blue stone is indeed very beautiful. I am actually afraid it just might be a little bit too large? I dont want her to be unconfortable.

Just to give some context: we live in Brazil, where engagement ring diamonds are often very small. It is very common for even the top jewelry stones here not to have a single stone above 1ct for sale. If I am not mistaken the only two Tiffany stones around do not have such stones. So anything above 1ct is considered pretty huge around here! I dont think it would be that showy, as we will be going for a plain solitaire, and many people here buy halos and such, it is just that it will be very uncommon for a solitaire.

I am ready to buy; however, I am not going to propose for the next few months, so I am not in a hurry. I can buy now if I am afraid the stone I like will be sold to someone else.

I would love different fluorescent stones. I think we both would love it if the stone has some rare characteristic, such as different fluoro color, but I can't find any. Blue strong or even very strong fluoro would be very cool... I know she would love to have a very special, rare diamond -- she just does not want to show it off.

I dont think she will ever consider upgrading. She will be very emotional about the ring, and will want to keep it forever. Moreover I dont think we will ever think the stone is not large enough, unless we move from Brazil to New York or something...

 

[ratatat]

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.020-g-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104094705056
G will face up very white
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.015-f-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104089117005
SI1 but you will never in a million years see any inclusions on this one. You can hardly see anything even unde rmagnification as they are clear crystals. I have an SI1 like this and half the time I cannot see the inclusions under magnification. Never ever see anything with the naked eye
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...0.903-d-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067041023
Small speck under the table which again you will never see with the naked eye. I also have a VS diamond similar to this and I have very sharp eyes. People on pricescope are a little nuts and don’t like these kinds of inclusions even on VS stones but it will be completely invisible

 

[OoohShiny]

This might be an incorrect impression, but the television paints Brazil as beautiful and full of lovely people but also very dangerous in some parts.

To ask a question that no-one likes to think about, do you have any fear that you or your partner might be a victim of crime? If, as you say, no-one wears large diamonds, is that for personal security reasons?

I live in the UK, and diamonds over 1ct are very rarely seen outside of London in my experience. When they are, they can stand out quite a lot.

I'm not saying don't buy a diamond of that size, just to be aware that you may need to think about whether it is worn all the time. (It is sad that we live in a world where we have to think about this sometimes )


That said, @Wink at HPD has some great CBI options:

1.22 D VS2 at the top of your budget (using the Wire price):
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9701

1.21 F VS1 towards the top of your budget:
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9402

1.01 E VS1 in the middle of your budget:
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8408

0.98 F VS1 towards the bottom of your budget:
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8272

Check out the inventory for a few other options too

 

[Tophat1]

I've been to Brazil a few times on business and I've never brought my solitaire (or even the "fake" I use for travel) as I don't want to entice crime

Based on my experience, I would go no larger than 3/4 of a carat

 

[OoohShiny]

Just thinking, if she is a bit nerdy (like all the best people ) would she appreciate ultra-precision in another diamond shape?

Perhaps an Octavia?

http://gemconcepts.net/boutique/special-octavia-cut-diamond/
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php?search[terms]=octavia&search[mode]=any
https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond-search (you need to click on the Octavia button)

They face up smaller than a round for a given weight, so you could 'hide' your investment - the opposite of what most people want to do! lol

They are also very rare - only something like 50? 60? maybe 100? have been cut in the entire world, so if the worst happens, it will be much easier to ask local jewellers to look out for it (when compared to 'just another round diamond')

If there is not one available that suits your colour/clarity/size choices, you can speak to GOG / DBL / Yoram (@diagem) at Gemconcepts (who, with his team, cuts them ) and see if they could custom cut you one to order!

 

[metall]

I like the Octavia idea that @OoohShiny suggested, but only if you think your GF would like that. Alternatively, thinking a little outside the box, what do you think of a colored diamond?

If she is a bit nerdy, it might interesting her to learn what causes diamonds of different colors to form...similar concept to why you would like a strong blue fluorescence.

Also if you don't want anything too big, which will call attention to her ring this is a way to minimize that.

 

[farrahlyn]

Since the Octavia (which i think is a brialliant idea if she likes the cut) AND yellow was mentioned, i'll just drop this here

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/101ct-s-t-vs1-octavia-diamond-gia-r7544

and this is the size comparison between this specific stone (on left) and a round the same weight on a size 6 finger

 

[HappyNewLife]

I'd prob go with a 1.0-1.1 carat Brian Gavin Blue diamond. You'd be getting the fluor you seek with the exceptional cut we at PS are obsessed with

 

[Kran]

Thanks for the recommendations.

Yes, here in Brazil crime rate is a lot higher than in US or Europe. That might be part of why brazilians dont often buy big diamonds for engagement rings. However, I do believe that for the most part it is only a cultural thing of not valuing engagement rings that much. Most people I speak about find it silly that I would rather buy a beautiful ring for my girlfriend than upgrade my car. I dont agree with that, but most man here would never spend more than 30% of a salary buying an e-ring. At the same time, I commonly see lower-to-middle class people spending 2 months worth of salary in a brand new iPhone. Different priorities I guess.

Nevertheless, the higher crime rate is indeed something to consider. I don't think the diamond will make her much more likely to be robbed (I think that happens mostly randomly), but I can't ignore the fact that if she years it everyday, there will be likely some 2-3% chance of losing it every year. Even so I still think I can afford to buy a diamond in the 10k range. I could probably go for the 18-20k range if not for that.

I really like the octavia diamond shape. It is really beautiful. I actually do like the fact that is faces-up smaller and is deeper. Very special cut. I would like to see it in a video in comparison with a round ideal cut. Does anyone has such a video? I like that fact that if the diamond gets stolen, it will be easier to find if back. Maybe I can spend a little more on such a unique cut (~15k). How does the price compares to a signature ideal round? I guess the premium for cutting is a little higher, but I hope it is still cheaper for the same carat size? I am sure there are many uncuts that are too deep for a common round cut, and which would usually force the cutter to either waste a lot of carat weight or make a poor dull round cut, but that would be perfect for octavia cut.

I had considered a more warmer diamond before. Some months ago I was looking at the Brian Gavin Cape series. However, I just found out she does not like the yellow tone at all. I showed her two stones (0.5ct I and 0.75ct K) in a local store and she unequivocally chose the smaller one as the most beautiful, even though the larger stone was much more expensive. So color is quite important to her. So I will most likely not go for anything lower than H. Maybe even paying some premium for a D-F might be justifiable for us?

About coloured diamonds, I dont think that would work. I think she would not like yellow or brown diamonds. I would not like a pink diamond. I find orange and green diamonds very beautiful... so maybe thats an option? But I know that would force me to go to a very small carat size. Of course, blue/red stones are completely off the radar...

 

[Kran]

PS: I just checked my diamond spreadsheet, and it seems like the octavia cut diamonds, at least the ones from GOG, are about 25% to 30% more expensive than diamonds with super ideal round cut for the same carat size. I understand it is an exclusive cut, but I was hoping it would be same price or even a little bit cheaper, as it lets the cutter makes good use of small-width/high-depth uncuts that I believe are cheaper than the ones perfectly shaped for ideal round cuts. How much markup is there for the special cut?

 

[lalala]

 

[valeria101]

I find orange and green diamonds very beautiful... so maybe thats an option?

One at the edge of Vivid & Deep (or so it seems) - WWW

A 'pair' of honneys - WWW (not sure if they are still around)

'Orange-Yellow' is quite a rage of colours, not all stupendously $$$, although the top FVY live in this neighbourhood of almost too saturated colour.

2c

 

[Dancing Fire]

PS: I just checked my diamond spreadsheet, and it seems like the octavia cut diamonds, at least the ones from GOG, are about 25% to 30% more expensive than diamonds with super ideal round cut for the same carat size. I understand it is an exclusive cut, but I was hoping it would be same price or even a little bit cheaper, as it lets the cutter makes good use of small-width/high-depth uncuts that I believe are cheaper than the ones perfectly shaped for ideal round cuts. How much markup is there for the special cut?

Not a chance..Just a guess on my part. I think there are less than 80 Octavias on earth. I think Mine was # 30... This was in Oct 2014.

 

[valeria101]

Ctd.

Re. Green ...

I hadn't thought of these, but, some green diamonds come with the longest list fancy characteristics - see report: WWW . The colours are always this way - deep & grayish &/or yellowish, not the most obvious.

Perhaps something to keep in mind, if not necessarily for the current project. Obviously, I wouldn't try to make such a thing a surprise ! Too much of an 'acquired taste'.

 

[srke]

I think one of the things that made me really lust after an octavia, as improbable as it is that I would ever afford one was this thread by dancingfire https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-rough-for-my-octavia-pics.203024/

In terms of nerdy appeal to see it go from rough to finished stone, and appreciation of the quality and craftsmanship involved I think really made it appear something special.

 

[farrahlyn]

PS: I just checked my diamond spreadsheet, and it seems like the octavia cut diamonds, at least the ones from GOG, are about 25% to 30% more expensive than diamonds with super ideal round cut for the same carat size. I understand it is an exclusive cut, but I was hoping it would be same price or even a little bit cheaper, as it lets the cutter makes good use of small-width/high-depth uncuts that I believe are cheaper than the ones perfectly shaped for ideal round cuts. How much markup is there for the special cut?

The Octavia is a VERY special cut. Super ideal or special cuts are going to cost you more. If she'd like the cut of the Octavia, by all means, GO for it! for someone that likes something different, it's an excellent choice. There are other specialized cuts as well that you could consider. Such as the August Vintage cushion. The look of an antique/vintage cushion with exceptional light return. They also will face up smaller than a round (deep plus a very puffy crown) so they "hide" weight well.

I sorted through and found a few here:
JA AV Search Results

my three favorites in no particular order: (they're ALL spectacular, these just caught my eye)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.00-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3596292
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.96-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3596282
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.03-carat-f-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3596258

Of course, if these specialized cuts don't appeal to you or you think your intended won't like them, i'd stick to a colorless superideal by HPD, WF or BGD.

 

[Kran]

I have watched the octavia vs round videos and the octavia stone is really amazing. I just started reading DF's thread and it makes me wish for an Octavia cut as well indeed. I am still trying to find out whether or not my girlfriend would like a special cut, but if she does, I will strongly consider it. I just wish it was not that much expensive. A super-ideal (ACA, BGS, CBI) is very expensive already (I tought it was the more expensive cut) -- and that the Octavia is even more expensive blows my mind. Nevertheless, I am still strongly considering it. I will contact GOG and ask for pricing. Maybe I am lucky and he has a rough stone well adapted to an Octavia cut so that he can offer a good price for me.

About the Cushion special cuts, how can I see that the stone is an "August Vintage" one? One of the cushion diamonds you suggested is very beautiful, and I was quite surprised at the fair pricing:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.96-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3596282

Why is it so much more affordable than the others? Is it just for falling behind the 1ct mark? Anyone else recommends these special cushion cuts?

 

[OoohShiny]

I have watched the octavia vs round videos and the octavia stone is really amazing. I just started reading DF's thread and it makes me wish for an Octavia cut as well indeed. I am still trying to find out whether or not my girlfriend would like a special cut, but if she does, I will strongly consider it. I just wish it was not that much expensive. A super-ideal (ACA, BGS, CBI) is very expensive already (I tought it was the more expensive cut) -- and that the Octavia is even more expensive blows my mind. Nevertheless, I am still strongly considering it. I will contact GOG and ask for pricing. Maybe I am lucky and he has a rough stone well adapted to an Octavia cut so that he can offer a good price for me.

About the Cushion special cuts, how can I see that the stone is an "August Vintage" one? One of the cushion diamonds you suggested is very beautiful, and I was quite surprised at the fair pricing:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.96-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3596282

Why is it so much more affordable than the others? Is it just for falling behind the 1ct mark? Anyone else recommends these special cushion cuts?

Prices 'jump' a little when you break certain carat weights - 0.5ct, 1ct, 1.5ct, etc. - so if you buy 0.96ct to 0.99ct instead of a 1ct, you will get virtually identical size but without paying the '1ct premium'


The Octavias take (if I remember correctly) a whole WEEK to cut! They are designed and cut to be as accurately cut as possible - I believe that the machines they use are not even accurate enough to get to how exact the cutting has to be, and Yoram (diagem on here, of Gemconcepts) has to finish them by hand, using his years of experience and skill to get them perfect

So they do cost more - what you are paying for is the many man-hours it takes to cut them (or woman-hours ), and the skill of the cutter. They are an artisan product!


I'm not sure who would offer the best pricing for an Octavia - GOG, DBL or direct from Yoram at Gemconcepts. GOG's custom cut arrangements are good, though - I think they will find uncut/'rough' diamond that suits, quote you a range of prices depending on the colour/clarity/carat of the finished stone, then you pay what you have been quoted when it comes back from grading by AGS. @Rhino would be best to confirm, although he has moved away from GOG and set up August Vintage Inc now!


With regards to colour, I know we are talking about Colourless (D-F) but @Dancing Fire's is an I, if I remember correctly, and that looks white as anything due to the light performance of the cut!

 

[Dancing Fire]

With regards to colour, I know we are talking about Colourless (D-F) but @Dancing Fire's is an I, if I remember correctly, and that looks white as anything due to the light performance of the cut!

 

[OoohShiny]

I'm not jealous at allllll, nooooooo...