Harry Winston, didn't expect that!

[Christina...]

I find this discussion interesting because I just came across a Hearts on Fire diamond, which only got a 2.4 on the HCA. It scored 4 very goods. HOF diamonds are supposed to be percision cut, so I wonder why it did not do well on the HCA.

You need to request IS images, IS images trump the HCA. If you have a specific stone in mind and would like opinions you should start a thread so that veteran PSers can advise.

edit: typo

I did read this post. Hearts on Fire diamonds are precisely cut diamonds that specialise in perfect hearts and arrows formation in the cut. Their cutters spend extra time cutting these diamonds. They are very precisely cut diamonds probably more so than any metrics we've discussed here, and are extremely beautiful diamonds in person. They are why many vendors here put an extra premium on diamonds they can find that exhibit those patterns and call them HnA diamonds.

I don't need to be a veteran on PS to say quite confidently that a Hearts on Fire diamond would be one of the best cut diamonds you can get, without even needing IS images.

Laila already responded to the poster regarding why the stone may have scored low on the HCA, but I wanted to point out, that this is just another example that clearly shows your lack of basic cut knowledge, and how your may unintentionally be harming consumers with your insight and 'confidence'.

 

[2023]

The Blue Nile verus JA diamond price difference. This was my cogent argument for this thread. The HCA was discussed in a past topic very clearly with references. So onto this:

The Blue Nile diamond:
Stock number: LD02658475
1.4 HCA
SI1 inclusions are twining wisps at the edge of the diamond
1.02 carat
H colour
No Fluor, ex sym, ex polish
GIA cert
Price: 5661

The JA diamond:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1429972.asp
HCA 5.4
SI1 crystals
1 carat
H colour
No Fluor, es sym, ex polish
GIA cert
Price: $6,890
Pricescope Price: $6,530
Pricescope Wire Price: $6,432

A BN rep can check if it's eye clean, and you can buy an IS for about 25-50 dollars if you really to check that. You could potentially get a great diamond and save a lot of money. Why do we not take advantage of cheaper diamonds that are great cuts for consumers?

As another poster said (thank you), I am discussing two different things. I started off looking at the HCA because I saw price differences in BN vs JA, then went off on a tagent ie consider diamonds in the 2-3 range. I have since come back full circle to the price difference seen in JA vs BN taking nuances of cut within the GIA ex category as well.

I think if people read the whole thread they would understand that, but people seem to pounce on things from different posts and take them out of context. My apologies if not using enough full stops took away from my point too. I wrote that last night at about 1 in the morning.

I've only been on PS a couple months, and have said before I do question things. I think I explained that to yssie in a past thread.

As said, I had hoped to give consumers options, ny pointing out there are some possibly great deals out there if you know what you are looking for. Rough diamond prices have dropped by 13% and you can see that change reflected on some sites in diamond prices, that's all.

 

[ViraLovesTiffanys]

I'm so relieved I gave myself a PS break and didn't read all of this as it does get me upset. I don't think these boards are only supposed to be about getting sparkly diamonds. Giving advice is not just about educating on mathematics and physics, opinions are as valid as facts. I'm just tired of reading data instead of women and men expressing their real thoughts on beauty and aesthetics as it is still in the eyes of the beholder and the pockets they have to fill their dream stones as well. Maybe the harry winston ring was a deal where the couple saw the full package presentation and loved the finished product more than looking at various loose diamonds and settings. We don't all know what we want till we see it.

 

[2023]

Hi Vera, sorry you got caught up in the crossfires of this thread If you do read the thread though you will find you were upset for no reason. The thread was not at all about how you have interpreted it to be, at least not from my perspective.

Hi Xtina, I still can't read your posts unfortunately, but I did quickly have to glance over the words you wrote as I had to switch pages. That's interesting you feel that way. Hopefully people who understand things a bit better will know it's a bit silly.

 

[Christina...]

Hi Vera, sorry you got caught up in the crossfires of this thread If you do read the thread though you will find you were upset for no reason. The thread was not at all about how you have interpreted it to be, at least not from my perspective.

i Xtina, I still can't read your posts unfortunately, but I did quickly have to glance over the words you wrote as I had to switch pages. That's inteHresting you feel that way. Hopefully people who understand things a bit better will know it's a bit silly.

Finally 2023 we agree on something. Yes, hopefully people who understand things a bit better (than you) will know that your posts are a bit silly. Fortunately, it appears everyone is catching on. Question.....do YOU read your own threads?


1.0ct BN Sig ID I VS2

http://www.bluenile.com/build-your-own-diamond-ring?forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP&track=m311#diamonds_forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP|builder=BYOR|pid=LD02227910 $8181


JA H&A 1.05 I VS2
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1452027.asp $6885

BN's prices are not always lower. There is more risk involved and potentially more cost involved as well. Most consumers are not qualified to evaluate their own stones, nor do they understand what constitutes a great cut. We see it happen here all the time, not just with GIA but uninformed consumers who purchased an EGL ID and assumed it meant the same thing. Without magnifed images or idealscope images, it's impossible to judge a stones potential LP sight unseen. BN is a drop shipper, other than their signature line (example above) they never see the stones in their inventory. A CSR can not determine the eye cleanliness of a stone that she can't see. BN determines eye cleanliness based on a phone call to the holder of the diamond and asks his opinion. The holder of the diamond wants to sell that stone so his opinion is likely biased and based on this desire to sell. A GG or lab should be determining a stones eye cleanliness NOT a BN CSR. Buying without more information can result in costly returns, frustration, and a lot of your time. Furthermore JA has valuable warranties, free returns and buy back policies that BN does not.

Yssie has already explained why price differences between similar diamonds occur so I won't repeat it.

PS isn't about finding a consumer the cheapest diamond they can find. We evaluate each situation individually and attempt to find the most appropriate fit for that particular consumer. Sometimes it's on the second hand market, sometimes it's a smaller diamond with a better color/clarity grading, sometimes it's a better cut. But the desire is always the same, to find them the best diamond at the best value with the least amount of risk.



2023, you may have stopped reading my posts (though I doubt it), but I will continue to correct you when you spew misinformation. Not to annoy you or offend you, but to protect the many readers of this forum.

 

[Venti25]

Not trying to butt in here, (well actually I am ), but the way that I read this thread is that there are two different points of view. My 2cents is basically the HCA is just another "tool". For someone like me who can't envisage angles and mentally generate an image in my head I appreciate the simple "yes" "no" "maybe" even if I know to go check other instruments if it's a maybe, just in case. I'm not going to totally disregard the HCA, but neither will I reject straight up. I'll ask for is images.

For someone who doesn't have that same interest and only wants to get an awesome diamond for that special someone then "yes" "no" move on to the next may actually be easier and less painful. I've followed some of the threads where people try to help others on a budget, often the simple "yes" "no" becomes a little more flexible with a maybe + other information which imo should always be the case. Tailoring should always and usually does factor into the equation. However if someone wants to just take the pain out (like many posting here for help do) the HCA is an easy way to help them do that. If a rare "diamond in the rough" is lost along the way, that doesn't matter because the end result is equally as good. It's like finding an I1 diamond which is eye clean. Most people would reject straight up but we know that miracles happen but the majority of the time the I1 is going to look like a checker board. I think the HCA works on the same principle.

I think of this thread and PS like the equivalent of going to a used car sales yard and buying a used car (classical information asymmetry and the lemon problem). The HCA will reject the ones with no brakes, PC's will examine the body work for structural defects but it's up to other tools and the person buying to decide if you like the interior. Otherwise the person who bought the diamond will end up finding it's a lemon. Whether or not the price has something to do with the HCA.. really doubt it but I wouldn't know. Which is why blue nile < other vendors which provide information in some instances (Si's for example). Less information.

Also it's a pita for most people outside the US to return blue nile diamonds after having dealing with taxes and duties. It's much easier to find something relatively safe the first time around. Also I've not seen anyone say "your diamond looks ugly its HCA score is too high" in SMTB... it's only when people actually ASK for opinions about whether they got a good deal etc etc.

Okay! back to lurking and I hope I haven't offended anyone. It's just my 2c from lurking. .

 

[TitanCi]

I'm sorry to say, but when people obsess over those scores without seeing things with their own eyes and expect diamonds to perform for them instead of being amazing carbon crystals that they are, it makes me sick. Most of these posts are not about getting a bargain or finding something reasonable, but nitpicking and discouraging buyers to stay away from 99% of the worlds diamonds just to be in the elite group that can brag about angles and proportions. Seriously I traded up a lot of small diamonds to get my 4.02ct Radiant cut, although I have a 2ct round from my mother in law and 3 large princess cuts in studs and matching pendant from years ago when I worked for Fortunoff. Buying from Harry Winston may not mean the same to you as it does to this couple, and I don't have the eyes anymore to see light leakage that insignificant, so maybe my values arent the same as yours. If you want perfection I doubt that anything is. I think its wonderful the girl was able to own such a great handcrafted work of art and I'm sure the diamond is gorgeous in person. Nobody crowds around her hand going omg let me see your cert right now you made a big mistake. I get upset after hearing the same analysis over and over...don't be so negative about things people...not everybody has to think like you.

LolZzzzZzZZzzzz.

Sorry to say, but after this thread, and with my own eyes, for the most part... I can spot a well cut diamond from those that are sh!tty. So for you, perhaps, it seems like larger stones are in order. For most here, the best cut stone is. If I were to spend a ton of money on a HW ring and stone from them, that better be the best stone I could find from them. Please believe.

But to the posters credit, it's very true: no one goes around trolling women's rings to analyze it (although secretly they may be), and 100% of the time, we are happy for our friends/whoever it is when they show us their rings.

I don't think he's being negative, just questioning as to why some of these High Eng jewelers don't put so much emphasis on superb stone selection/sales.

BTW 2023, - the 1st stone I bought was a lifeless princess. The second stone I purchased had an HCA of 3.6? Something like that, and IRL, you could see leakage under the table. Maybe cuz my eyes are super sensitive.

 

[2023]

I admit, I have never bought a diamond online. When my husband went engagement ring shopping he took me to Tiffany and Hearts on Fire. Fyi Hearts on Fire diamonds are amazingly cut diamonds. We ended up going with a local jeweller to get a 20% bigger diamond and increase in colour and clarity, taking with us all that we learned. I saw many many beautiful diamonds in real life and looked at them for ages.

Yes, if you are going to buy a J-K SI2-I1 diamond this is the site to find you that bargain. I have no issue for people on a budget this site is great. I also think it helps get some inventory out the door that is otherwise harder to push. As long as the consumers use all the tools available.

Fyi - Excel diamonds and Enchanted diamonds also use IS or reflector technology. Enchanted Diamonds has some great prices.

Food for thought (for lurkers)
1. Gary Holloway is a part owner of Price Scope
2. Gary Holloway invented the Ideal Scope and hence it makes business sense to support JA as they are large advertisers on the site and use the Ideal Scope. A win/win.
3. The HCA predates AGS and GIA cut grading

From an expert in the field on the HCA "It is theoretical and not supported by industry authorities. Much like a drug that was not approved by the FDA. It has many unspoken side effects. It really shouldn’t be on the market for consumers to use as some judgement of visual cut quality, or base buying decisions on. There are many things on the web that aren’t true, so keep that in mind. Test the facts and see if they hold water. This is mainly for consumers to review so that they can maintain a common sense approach to buying a diamond. There are some on the web that will try to convince you otherwise in their marketing efforts to have some magic bean calculator that will render visual opinions on something it doesn’t see. There is no one on the net that can give you results or accurate opinions on how a diamond looks with a few numbers and without *seeing* it."

 

[sonnyjane]

You are unbelievable. I encourage absolutely no one else to even respond to this thread, as you seem to be enjoying the drama.

 

[natascha]

I admit, I have never bought a diamond online. When my husband went engagement ring shopping he took me to Tiffany and Hearts on Fire. Fyi Hearts on Fire diamonds are amazingly cut diamonds. We ended up going with a local jeweller to get a 20% bigger diamond and increase in colour and clarity, taking with us all that we learned. I saw many many beautiful diamonds in real life and looked at them for ages.

Yes, if you are going to buy a J-K SI2-I1 diamond this is the site to find you that bargain. I have no issue for people on a budget this site is great. I also think it helps get some inventory out the door that is otherwise harder to push. As long as the consumers use all the tools available.

Fyi - Excel diamonds and Enchanted diamonds also use IS or reflector technology. Enchanted Diamonds has some great prices.

Food for thought (for lurkers)
1. Gary Holloway is a part owner of Price Scope
2. Gary Holloway invented the Ideal Scope and hence it makes business sense to support JA as they are large advertisers on the site and use the Ideal Scope. A win/win.
3. The HCA predates AGS and GIA cut grading

From an expert in the field on the HCA "It is theoretical and not supported by industry authorities. Much like a drug that was not approved by the FDA. It has many unspoken side effects. It really shouldn’t be on the market for consumers to use as some judgement of visual cut quality, or base buying decisions on. There are many things on the web that aren’t true, so keep that in mind. Test the facts and see if they hold water. This is mainly for consumers to review so that they can maintain a common sense approach to buying a diamond. There are some on the web that will try to convince you otherwise in their marketing efforts to have some magic bean calculator that will render visual opinions on something it doesn’t see. There is no one on the net that can give you results or accurate opinions on how a diamond looks with a few numbers and without *seeing* it."

Do you have any understanding of physics and optics? (Not meant to be insulting, I am not from the US so I don't know if it is included in your curriculum).

Oh by the way, I don't use the HCA since I only buy old cuts. So I am not trying to defend anything. I am just giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Fact: Diamonds are not magical beings. Diamonds are composed of a crystal lattice of carbon atoms which gives it certain properties and characteristics. Among those is how light will travel through diamond matter. Since we want the light that enters the diamond to be reflected back at us we need to work with angles. Different angles will complement each other and result in the light return that we want. These types of calculations are beyond what most people without the proper software can do at home.

When people want to buy a diamond on the net then there are millions of different diamonds to choose from. You don't get to evaluate them with your own eyes, you often only have the cert to go on. Just looking at the few stats that you get on the report won't mean much to most people. So how do you decide which ones to ask more questions about? You could print out a paper and throw a dart at it but that won't be very effective. You could just pick the cheapest one, but diamonds are a commodity and there is nearly always a reason for why that one is the cheapest. You can also pay someone else to pick one for you or pay a premium for Hearts on Fire, etc. Or you can use a tool like the HCA to create a shortlist that you want more information on. As in everything, there will always be outliers. There will always be a couple of percent of stones that the HCA rejects that are great. That does not mean the HCA is not useful.

One thing that has me a bit curious, what do you propose people buying on the internet should use as a weeding tool? I am very interested in your answer.

 

[Laila619]

You are unbelievable. I encourage absolutely no one else to even respond to this thread, as you seem to be enjoying the drama.

I'm pretty sure this poster was formerly known as Isabelle/Red Robbin, just like Dreamer suspected.

 

[yssie]

You are unbelievable. I encourage absolutely no one else to even respond to this thread, as you seem to be enjoying the drama.

I'm pretty sure this poster was formerly known as Isabelle/Red Robbin, just like Dreamer suspected.

And we're continuing the legacy of senseless Tiffany adulation, apparently.

2023, I'm disappointed. I thought that you were going to add an interesting POV to this forum but it seems your goals are merely conspiracy theories.

 

[Christina...]

You are unbelievable. I encourage absolutely no one else to even respond to this thread, as you seem to be enjoying the drama.

I'm pretty sure this poster was formerly known as Isabelle/Red Robbin, just like Dreamer suspected.

And we're continuing the legacy of senseless Tiffany adulation, apparently.

2023, I'm disappointed. I thought that you were going to add an interesting POV to this forum but it seems your goals are merely conspiracy theories.

 

[2023]

I am definitely not another poster from this forum called isabelle/redrobin. I swear anything you want on it.

If this person also thought this forum was strange, don't be suprised if there are others. I find it weird you think that I must be the same person.

I'm an exceedingly honest person and I can prove my name and email address with my passport/drivers license etc with PS.

I have only been a member for 2 months on Price Scope (and its not what I thought it would be). Most of you would be much older than me as I did try to find who this other person was but could only find partially deleted threads. That was a while back.

I am most certainly a different poster. Why on earth would I have more screen nanes. This is the first forum I've evet posted on and its draining enough as it is without doing it as another poster.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:


.....the record is stuck....the record is stuck......

 

[blinglover78]

**edited by moderator: Members who were previously banned for violating our policies are not welcome.

Have you ever ordered or inquired about a stone through blue nile?

You are incorrect. They can tell you if diamonds are eye clean. It is usually a 24-48 hour time line but that is information they can provide.

 

[Christina...]

**edited by moderator: Members who were previously banned for violating our policies are not welcome.

Have you ever ordered or inquired about a stone through blue nile?

You are incorrect. They can tell you if diamonds are eye clean. It is usually a 24-48 hour time line but that is information they can provide.[/quote]


BN can call the dealer holding the stone and ask them if the stone is eye clean. This involves some risk to the consumer since the dealers interest is in selling the stone, and this desire can result in bias. The exception I believe is BN signatue line, which I believe are exclusive to them and held in house. That said, determining a stones eye cleanliness is only half the problem with shopping BN. It's the lack of other information that results in the most risk.

 

[blinglover78]

Have you ever ordered or inquired about a stone through blue nile?

You are incorrect. They can tell you if diamonds are eye clean. It is usually a 24-48 hour time line but that is information they can provide.[/quote]



BN can call the dealer holding the stone and ask them if the stone is eye clean. This involves some risk to the consumer since the dealers interest is in selling the stone, and this desire can result in bias. The exception I believe is BN signatue line, which I believe are exclusive to them and held in house. That said, determining a stones eye cleanliness is only half the problem with shopping BN. It's the lack of other information that results in the most risk.[/quote]



I see your point. If BN sells me a stone after telling me its eye clean, and i receive it and see that they are incorrect, I send it back to them. All shipping has been at their cost. I spent nothing. It risks my time if I need something quickly, but nothing else. That being said, on three occasions i have purchased SI1 stones from them, and all of them have been eye clean as promised. Before those purchases, during the decision making process, some did come back as not being eye clean. They were honest. I just don't see a reason for them not to be transparent.

As far as other risk, i here you on the ideal scope images. Couldn't one just buy an ideal scope?

 

[Christina...]

Have you ever ordered or inquired about a stone through blue nile?

You are incorrect. They can tell you if diamonds are eye clean. It is usually a 24-48 hour time line but that is information they can provide.

BN can call the dealer holding the stone and ask them if the stone is eye clean. This involves some risk to the consumer since the dealers interest is in selling the stone, and this desire can result in bias. The exception I believe is BN signatue line, which I believe are exclusive to them and held in house. That said, determining a stones eye cleanliness is only half the problem with shopping BN. It's the lack of other information that results in the most risk.[/quote]



I see your point. If BN sells me a stone after telling me its eye clean, and i receive it and see that they are incorrect, I send it back to them. All shipping has been at their cost. I spent nothing. It risks my time if I need something quickly, but nothing else. That being said, on three occasions i have purchased SI1 stones from them, and all of them have been eye clean as promised. Before those purchases, during the decision making process, some did come back as not being eye clean. They were honest. I just don't see a reason for them not to be transparent.

As far as other risk, i here you on the ideal scope images. Couldn't one just buy an ideal scope?[/quote]

I also didn't realize that BN had free returns on purchases, it appears from their website that returning unwanted items is the responsibility of the customer. http://www.bluenile.com/returns

As far as purchasing your own idealscope, I would definitely recommend it if your vendor can't offer you images. However this is just added inconvenience and expense IMO. Not to mention confusing and difficult to interpret for many consumers as shown by the number of threads asking for help either in the photography or interpretation of the images.

I don't have any personal issues with BN. They appear to be a well run and reputable business with many satisfied customers. That said, based on my own experiences, I have found vendors with the ability to offer more information and images to be more convenient and safer options. I'm personally not interested in having to view and return several stones before I find a winner. Purchasing any stone sight unseen carries a certain amount of risk, I'm the type that like to eliminate as much risk as possible before making a purchase, and why I recommend that anyone considering a BN diamond ask that a vendor able to provide additional information and images call the stone in for them. Often these vendors can and will beat BN prices. It seems like a win/win to me. You get a great deal on a diamond that has been thoroughly inspected and evaluated by a GG. Of course in the end your eyes will determine the true beauty of the stone, but it's nice to know that it first passed a lot of tests on its way to you.

 

[2023]

Have you ever ordered or inquired about a stone through blue nile?

You are incorrect. They can tell you if diamonds are eye clean. It is usually a 24-48 hour time line but that is information they can provide.

BN can call the dealer holding the stone and ask them if the stone is eye clean. This involves some risk to the consumer since the dealers interest is in selling the stone, and this desire can result in bias. The exception I believe is BN signatue line, which I believe are exclusive to them and held in house. That said, determining a stones eye cleanliness is only half the problem with shopping BN. It's the lack of other information that results in the most risk.[/quote]



I see your point. If BN sells me a stone after telling me its eye clean, and i receive it and see that they are incorrect, I send it back to them. All shipping has been at their cost. I spent nothing. It risks my time if I need something quickly, but nothing else. That being said, on three occasions i have purchased SI1 stones from them, and all of them have been eye clean as promised. Before those purchases, during the decision making process, some did come back as not being eye clean. They were honest. I just don't see a reason for them not to be transparent.

As far as other risk, i here you on the ideal scope images. Couldn't one just buy an ideal scope?[/quote]

Yay! Someone heard me! I've been so worn down by everyone else I haven't read the thread for a while. Feel like I missed the drama as someone was banned! Lol.

 

[2023]

"

Have you ever ordered or inquired about a stone through blue nile?

You are incorrect. They can tell you if diamonds are eye clean. It is usually a 24-48 hour time line but that is information they can provide.

If BN sells me a stone after telling me its eye clean, and i receive it and see that they are incorrect, I send it back to them. All shipping has been at their cost. I spent nothing. It risks my time if I need something quickly, but nothing else. That being said, on three occasions i have purchased SI1 stones from them, and all of them have been eye clean as promised. Before those purchases, during the decision making process, some did come back as not being eye clean. They were honest. I just don't see a reason for them not to be transparent.

[i]As far as other risk, i here you on the ideal scope images. Couldn't one just buy an ideal scope?[/quote]"
[/i]

YAY! Someone heard me!!! I haven't been back for a while as I was so worn down. Seems I missed the drama, someone got banned from this thread!!!

 

[Venti25]

I admit, I have never bought a diamond online.

??
I have an idealscope.. but there's still no way I'd ever want to return a diamond outside of the US if it's unsatisfactory. Especially if it's over the mark at which I have to pay custom duties.

 

[TitanCi]

I admit, I have never bought a diamond online. When my husband went engagement ring shopping he took me to Tiffany and Hearts on Fire. Fyi Hearts on Fire diamonds are amazingly cut diamonds. We ended up going with a local jeweller to get a 20% bigger diamond and increase in colour and clarity, taking with us all that we learned. I saw many many beautiful diamonds in real life and looked at them for ages.

Yes, if you are going to buy a J-K SI2-I1 diamond this is the site to find you that bargain. I have no issue for people on a budget this site is great. I also think it helps get some inventory out the door that is otherwise harder to push. As long as the consumers use all the tools available.

Fyi - Excel diamonds and Enchanted diamonds also use IS or reflector technology. Enchanted Diamonds has some great prices.

Food for thought (for lurkers)
1. Gary Holloway is a part owner of Price Scope
2. Gary Holloway invented the Ideal Scope and hence it makes business sense to support JA as they are large advertisers on the site and use the Ideal Scope. A win/win.
3. The HCA predates AGS and GIA cut grading

From an expert in the field on the HCA "It is theoretical and not supported by industry authorities. Much like a drug that was not approved by the FDA. It has many unspoken side effects. It really shouldn’t be on the market for consumers to use as some judgement of visual cut quality, or base buying decisions on. There are many things on the web that aren’t true, so keep that in mind. Test the facts and see if they hold water. This is mainly for consumers to review so that they can maintain a common sense approach to buying a diamond. There are some on the web that will try to convince you otherwise in their marketing efforts to have some magic bean calculator that will render visual opinions on something it doesn’t see. There is no one on the net that can give you results or accurate opinions on how a diamond looks with a few numbers and without *seeing* it."

Do you have any understanding of physics and optics? (Not meant to be insulting, I am not from the US so I don't know if it is included in your curriculum).

Oh by the way, I don't use the HCA since I only buy old cuts. So I am not trying to defend anything. I am just giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Fact: Diamonds are not magical beings. Diamonds are composed of a crystal lattice of carbon atoms which gives it certain properties and characteristics. Among those is how light will travel through diamond matter. Since we want the light that enters the diamond to be reflected back at us we need to work with angles. Different angles will complement each other and result in the light return that we want. These types of calculations are beyond what most people without the proper software can do at home.

When people want to buy a diamond on the net then there are millions of different diamonds to choose from. You don't get to evaluate them with your own eyes, you often only have the cert to go on. Just looking at the few stats that you get on the report won't mean much to most people. So how do you decide which ones to ask more questions about? You could print out a paper and throw a dart at it but that won't be very effective. You could just pick the cheapest one, but diamonds are a commodity and there is nearly always a reason for why that one is the cheapest. You can also pay someone else to pick one for you or pay a premium for Hearts on Fire, etc. Or you can use a tool like the HCA to create a shortlist that you want more information on. As in everything, there will always be outliers. There will always be a couple of percent of stones that the HCA rejects that are great. That does not mean the HCA is not useful.

One thing that has me a bit curious, what do you propose people buying on the internet should use as a weeding tool? I am very interested in your answer.

Haaavvvvvvveeeeeee you met the winner of this thread? Killed it.



2023 - I disagree with you on a couple of things. This place is NOT the only "place" for someone looking for a J/K VS2/SI1. This is a place for people to join and become INFORMED about stones and namely cut quality. It's for anyone looking for ANY stone. Not just some narrow selection or what you may see as "budget".

The HCA is a great tool that does HELP you make a potentially better purchase. It surely didn't mistake my first RB stone, so yes I believe in it. It helped me choose an AWESOME 2nd stone, so yes I believe in it even more.

JA isn't the only person who uses the IS. The top sponsors/vendors here do - so are you trying to say they have some financial interest with Garry H too? I don't see your argument here? Mr Holloway is a jeweler himself and I'd argue he devised the IS to help people in the industry and consumers alike to arm themselves with more buying power. I don't think there's an industry standard to buying stones, you just buy what appeals to YOU.

 

[2023]

Use the HCA, I was just pointing out some flaws I saw with it, I'm allowed to do that without having another calculator HCA 2.0 ready. Also I do get basic math and physics as well.

If we were really going to be selective and worried about cut, I'd be going with vendor choices, signature lines, HnA cuts, diamonds that had been selected and seen by a jeweller for their inventory, like GoG, WF, BGD.

If I was going for a bargain it would seem an idea to consider BN. The images might be worth 15-20% more from James Allen and yes people may feel better buying from them because people may not want to send a diamond back in the post. However, that would have to mean that their carefully selected sub 2 HCA stone, did not fare well on their own ($25) Ideal Scope pictures (which contradicts most peoples logic here anyway!!!). My only reason for even getting into this horrible online argument, was to point out if you are looking for a bargain, there are other options out there and you could potentially save money.

Anyhow, two words. AFFILIATE MARKETING

Linked below:

http://affiliates.jamesallen.com/best-affiliate-programs-faq.html

James Allen will give 5% commission to a site if they have set up an affiliate marketing arrangement with them.

If you CLICK on a LINK from the site directly linking to James Allen, then the site automatically gets $200 and/or 5% commission, whatever is more.

 

[songo1234]

HI 2023,

been lurking for sometime now. I do agree with your views that members on this board are overly obsessed with HCA's. But people have their views and you have yours. Both sides do make valid claims.

Affiliate marketing is not a bad thing per se. Quite a number of jewelers use this as a method to drive more traffic and sales.
BlueNile has the program as well via google checkout. To them, it is like an advertising fee that they for traffic that converts.

Other websites use this as a form of revenue just like placing ads on a website. If you use Youtube, google does paid advertisements in its advertisements as well. Does that mean Google is corrupted because big guys like Bluenile pay Google to drive traffic and sales? In fact, you might have already seen James Allen, Bluenile, DiamondsbyLauren, Brilliance.com ads there as well. Even facebook has diamond related ads with advertisers there as well.

Does pricescope has an affiliate relationship with James Allen? maybe. maybe not. Only the owners can answer this question.

In my opinion, as long as they have a disclosure policy, it is OK. Some examples of sites that do disclose relationships because they have affiliate relationships:

Quote from
https://www.pricescope.com/faq

How can PriceScope offer this service for FREE?
Through the sale of advertising. If you are interested in exploring advertising opportunities on PriceScope, please visit our Sellers Facet page or drop us a line.

- http://www.diamondreview.com/misc/diamonds-faq
- http://www.diamondcalculator.org/affiliate-disclosure-statement
- http://diamondqualitychart.org/disclosure/
- http://onlinediamondbuyingguide.com/FTC-Disclosure.html

Sonny

 

[Christina...]

Use the HCA, I was just pointing out some flaws I saw with it, I'm allowed to do that without having another calculator HCA 2.0 ready. Also I do get basic math and physics as well.

If we were really going to be selective and worried about cut, I'd be going with vendor choices, signature lines, HnA cuts, diamonds that had been selected and seen by a jeweller for their inventory, like GoG, WF, BGD.

If I was going for a bargain it would seem an idea to consider BN. The images might be worth 15-20% more from James Allen and yes people may feel better buying from them because people may not want to send a diamond back in the post. However, that would have to mean that their carefully selected sub 2 HCA stone, did not fare well on their own ($25) Ideal Scope pictures (which contradicts most peoples logic here anyway!!!). My only reason for even getting into this horrible online argument, was to point out if you are looking for a bargain, there are other options out there and you could potentially save money.

Anyhow, two words. AFFILIATE MARKETING

Linked below:

http://affiliates.jamesallen.com/best-affiliate-programs-faq.html

James Allen will give 5% commission to a site if they have set up an affiliate marketing arrangement with them.

If you CLICK on a LINK from the site directly linking to James Allen, then the site automatically gets $200 and/or 5% commission, whatever is more.

I'm not sure how or why affiliate marketing came into the discussion but, Brian Gavin has an affiliate program, and whiteflash links to other third party vendors.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/affiliate/affiliates/faq.php

As Sonny said many many companies do it and it makes sense from a business standpoint and I don't see how this is harmful to the consumer, if that was your point.

Blue Nile also has it's own signature line and James Allen has the True Hearts line. You may feel that WF, BGD, and GOG are more selective and I would agree, they also offer more information about there stones than any other vendors, which is why we recommend them so often. So it would seem that you also agree that additional information and images are helpful in making an informed decision despite your protests.

I'm confused about the part of your post in bold. Firstly, JA offers IS images, so why would someone need to purchase one and use it to determine leakage if it was already done for them? It's BN that we recommend consumers purchase their own IS to view the stone after purchase. Secondly, what formula have you used to determine that James Allen prices are 15%-20% higher than Blue Niles? This is another example of how you post information as fact with no data to back you up. Selecting one stone from each vendor with like color clarity and size and comparing price is not an effective method of determining which vendors stones are priced better. If you'd like to back up your statement with statistical data, I'd be happy to consider your argument. I also think it would be interesting to see how many stones are returned to BN after inspection as opposed to how many are returned to JA.

 

[TitanCi]

^Hi Christina!

2023: regarding cut, Going with WF or GoG or BGD takes the guess work out of looking for a stone: they've already selected it for you for their signature lines so you pay that premium plus all the upgrades and policies and what not; they do all the analysis for you. One could easily find stones similar to what they sell based off numbers, with due diligence. So I don't get your argument? Just because JA puts up pictures doesn't mean THAT is factored into the cost of the stone (Although it COULD). a GIA XXX 1.0 ct G VS2 is not the same as the next GIA XXX 1.0 ct G VS2, being on this site for this long you should know that by now! From what ERD told me certain stones will cost more or less based on things as simple, yet crucial, as angles - thus THIS can account for the price differences. So if you're buying stones without looking at the few things that really matter (as silly as it seems), are you only relying on your eyes (Which SHOULD be THE ultimate tool). I agree with most here that most stones should look beautiful to one's eyes, even if angles are sub-optimal. But wouldn't you want to have THE best stone your money could get in every aspect?

No one is preaching the HCA as diamond gospel or the ultimate answer, yet it serves as an effective tool to help weed out potentially fugly stones. I even think Mr. Holloway has even considered revising it again. It's just something to put in your arsenal, right?

Everyone has their own way of analyzing stones, but that's what makes for a discussion on this board, right? It's not a horrible arguement, 2023, let's just say it spiced up RT for a second.

 

[webdiva]

Use the HCA, I was just pointing out some flaws I saw with it, I'm allowed to do that without having another calculator HCA 2.0 ready. Also I do get basic math and physics as well.

If we were really going to be selective and worried about cut, I'd be going with vendor choices, signature lines, HnA cuts, diamonds that had been selected and seen by a jeweller for their inventory, like GoG, WF, BGD.

If I was going for a bargain it would seem an idea to consider BN. The images might be worth 15-20% more from James Allen and yes people may feel better buying from them because people may not want to send a diamond back in the post. However, that would have to mean that their carefully selected sub 2 HCA stone, did not fare well on their own ($25) Ideal Scope pictures (which contradicts most peoples logic here anyway!!!). My only reason for even getting into this horrible online argument, was to point out if you are looking for a bargain, there are other options out there and you could potentially save money.

Anyhow, two words. AFFILIATE MARKETING

Linked below:

http://affiliates.jamesallen.com/best-affiliate-programs-faq.html

James Allen will give 5% commission to a site if they have set up an affiliate marketing arrangement with them.

If you CLICK on a LINK from the site directly linking to James Allen, then the site automatically gets $200 and/or 5% commission, whatever is more.

PS makes affiliate revenue from both BN and JA via the Viglink service. Argument invalid.

 

[2023]

Hi Christina, the part I bolded, was for the option of people buying from BN. ie. if they found it too cumbersome to pop their carefully selected diamond back into the post after having run the numbers through the HCA and looked at it through their own ($25 idealscope) -I thought that was very clear. Obviously JA provides IS images, I never disputed that.

As for the price difference, it's something I noticed about a month ago. Rough diamond prices have dropped by 13% and I believe BN started showing that change earlier. Obviously diamond prices change - they are not set in stone. So while we've all been quibbling back and forwards and mud has been slung around - I have been trying to point out that there have been some cheap diamonds on Blue Nile. Diamond prices, like many things, are not static, and I was trying to get people to take advantage of that while I could see that difference. However, everyone just jumped on the random parts of this thread that were not even relevant and quibbled about that instead.

I pointed it out about 2 weeks ago, 20-30 posts back (there were even greater differences back then). I clearly do not have time to cover every single diamond out there, it was my observation. However, here is another example:

GIA ex cut, ex sym, ex polish, no fluor, GVS2, HCA included
Blue Nile
1.5 ct
G VS2
Depth 61.8
Table 56
13704 (wire 13499)
41 pav/34 crown
LD02745604
HCA: 1.4

1.51
VS2
40.8 pav 35 crown
Depth 61.0%
Table 56%
14266 (wire 14033)
LD02744110
HCA: 1.5

James Allen
1.51
40.8 pav/35.5 crown
Table 57%
Depth 61.5%
$17250 (wire price 16991)
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1479896.asp
HCA: 2.6

Yes, I agree many vendors would participate in affiliate marketing, and we do not know who and to what extent that vendors do that, however there will be some vendors that pay much more money than others.

 

[Christina...]

2023 I'm just going to refer you to all the other posts in this thread. I feel as though I'm talking to my 13 year old whose only desire is to get in the last word regardless if what he says makes sense or not. He exhaust me, you exhaust me, and I've lost all interest in trying to explain it. My only hope was that lurkers and newcomers who saw this thread would have enough accurate information to form their own opinions, and I think that there have been enough enlightening responses now for them to do just that.





(Hey Titan feel free to link some really cool exit for me 'here')