Harry Winston, didn't expect that!

[2023]

Hi PS,
Have got into some debates recently with regards to hoping people would not automatically disregarding diamonds that had HCA scores of 2-3 and to consider GIA excellents that were also AGS0 candidates, at least investigating them further...Gary H chimed in as well to the topic and agreed diamonds in the 2-3 range were worth considering more.

Fife and Titanci have some pretty great stories both returning diamonds with HCA scores over 5 to get a diamond they are much happier with, with lower HCA scores and have beautiful diamonds

I was on the SMTB thread yesterday and was looking at a 2.7+ carat ring from Harry Winston ring. The poster also posted the diamonds specifications:
Table 57%
Depth 62.5%
Crown 35.5
Pavilion 41.4
These dimensions really surprised me. I know on the HCA it would not score well and looking at the numbers it would not be a candidate for an AGS0 and would not do well on the AGA calculator. I don't want to link the thread because I don't want the OP to think I'm being negative about her diamond, its beautiful. Its on the first page of SMTB and looks lovely.

I'm wondering what others think about this?

This would be the kind of candidate of diamond most would be worried about light leakage correct? Or am I missing something. Is a stone that is verified by a jeweller eyes trump? Or are there other factors that could make this diamond a great cut? Does a cut like this have different characteristics that are different to the shallower stones but also beautiful? Or does PS flat out not like this diamond?

Would like to hear your thoughts!

 

[Dreamer_D]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-a-gia-ex-ex-ex-diamond-score-5-0-on-hca-tool.176239/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-a-gia-ex-ex-ex-diamond-score-5-0-on-hca-tool.176239/[/URL]

 

[sonnyjane]

This would be the kind of candidate of diamond most would be worried about light leakage correct? Or am I missing something. Is a stone that is verified by a jeweller eyes trump? Or are there other factors that could make this diamond a great cut? Does a cut like this have different characteristics that are different to the shallower stones but also beautiful? Or does PS flat out not like this diamond?

Would like to hear your thoughts!

My first thought is that Cartier, Harry Winston, Tiffany's and the like are not known for necessarily having the best cut stones. The cache of their brand is usually the draw, and I'd imagine (can't speak for the owner), that there must have been some reason that they preferred a ring from a name-brand place like Harry Winston other than looking for the best diamond, which, as we know, can usually be sourced online (and for much, much cheaper at that).

My second thought is that the experts have explained time and time again what the HCA should be used for and should not be used for, what it can tell you, and what it can't tell you. It's not meant to be the be-all-end-all, so I don't understand the furor with which you argue against it. I actually find your passion against the HCA odd! I understand wanting to educate people to be open-minded when looking for diamonds, but as I said, the experts here have explained repeatedly what the tool's purposes are, so I don't understand the need to bring it up over and over again. It's really beating a dead horse in my opinion.

 

[ViraLovesTiffanys]

I'm sorry to say, but when people obsess over those scores without seeing things with their own eyes and expect diamonds to perform for them instead of being amazing carbon crystals that they are, it makes me sick. Most of these posts are not about getting a bargain or finding something reasonable, but nitpicking and discouraging buyers to stay away from 99% of the worlds diamonds just to be in the elite group that can brag about angles and proportions. Seriously I traded up a lot of small diamonds to get my 4.02ct Radiant cut, although I have a 2ct round from my mother in law and 3 large princess cuts in studs and matching pendant from years ago when I worked for Fortunoff. Buying from Harry Winston may not mean the same to you as it does to this couple, and I don't have the eyes anymore to see light leakage that insignificant, so maybe my values arent the same as yours. If you want perfection I doubt that anything is. I think its wonderful the girl was able to own such a great handcrafted work of art and I'm sure the diamond is gorgeous in person. Nobody crowds around her hand going omg let me see your cert right now you made a big mistake. I get upset after hearing the same analysis over and over...don't be so negative about things people...not everybody has to think like you.

 

[webdiva]

I'm sorry to say, but when people obsess over those scores without seeing things with their own eyes and expect diamonds to perform for them instead of being amazing carbon crystals that they are, it makes me sick. Most of these posts are not about getting a bargain or finding something reasonable, but nitpicking and discouraging buyers to stay away from 99% of the worlds diamonds just to be in the elite group that can brag about angles and proportions. Seriously I traded up a lot of small diamonds to get my 4.02ct Radiant cut, although I have a 2ct round from my mother in law and 3 large princess cuts in studs and matching pendant from years ago when I worked for Fortunoff. Buying from Harry Winston may not mean the same to you as it does to this couple, and I don't have the eyes anymore to see light leakage that insignificant, so maybe my values the same as yours. If you want perfection I doubt that anything is. I think its wonderful the girl was able to own such a great handcrafted work of art and I'm sure the diamond is gorgeous in person. Nobody crowds around her hand going omg let me see your cert right now you made a big mistake. I get upset after hearing the same analysis over and over...don't be so negative about things people...not everybody has to think like you.

The whole point of this website is getting the most sparkliest diamond. That's why people nitpick. Value and performance. 'Nuff said.

 

[ame]

I've seen amazing stones from all of the big names, and some less amazing stones from the same big names. I have also seen some dogs that scored really well on the HCA, and some really amazing stones that scored really poorly. Who knows and what concern is it of the layperson what their criteria is for selecting/cutting stones the way they do. People are still going to want the name brand because they are buying what they believe is high quality and paying for the name, the convenience of not having to DO the research and legwork, the service promised for the lifetime of the piece, as well as buying the comfort that goes with the assumption that because it's from these brands that it IS high quality.

 

[2023]

I actually find your passion against the HCA odd! I understand wanting to educate people to be open-minded when looking for diamonds, but as I said, the experts here have explained repeatedly what the tool's purposes are, so I don't understand the need to bring it up over and over again. It's really beating a dead horse in my opinion.

I'm not against the HCA, I would never be as absolute to say that, certainly not on here. I personally felt it odd that a forum of independent thinkers had such a mob mentality and I can link to 1000s and 1000s of posts that say: look for this, knock out that diamond, HCA over 2, light leakage bad etc...so many cut and paste paragraphs of GIA ex broad etc etc. There is a lot if potential fear mongering on here that does discourage a lot of buyers.

I guess I found it refreshing to see a diamond from a store that I see as top quality having a diamond with characteristics outside of what PS recommends.

 

[sonnyjane]

I guess I found it refreshing to see a diamond from a store that I see as top quality having a diamond with characteristics outside of what PS recommends.

As I said in my first reply, Harry Winston, Tiffany's, Cartier... the "big guns" are known for being expensive, and yes, for even being beautiful, but their cut criteria can be lacking. If CUT is king to you (general you), then doing lots of stone comparisons and getting additional images showing light return, etc. is best done online. You can trust that when you pay big bucks at Tiffany's or HW that you're not going to get an ugly frozen spit stone, but there is definitely NO guarantee that your big bucks are paying for ideal cut stones with superior light performance.

 

[2023]

I think its a pretty big generalisation to say their cut is lacking. Tiffany has been around forever and Harry Winston has been around for a long time too.

How they select their inventory is based on their criteria of what they believe makes a beautiful diamond, and they have their years of experience, their knowledge of diamonds, their huge inventory and their brand name to back that up.

I don't disagree that they are expensive and you could get a cheaper diamond elsewhere, but you can't over generalise and say because they have a different selection criteria than PS they don't prioritise cut.

 

[sonnyjane]

I think its a pretty big generalisation to say their cut is lacking. Tiffany has been around forever and Harry Winston has been around for a long time too.

How they select their inventory is based on their criteria of what they believe makes a beautiful diamond, and they have their years of experience, their knowledge of diamonds, their huge inventory and their brand name to back that up.

I don't disagree that they are expensive and you could get a cheaper diamond elsewhere, but you can't over generalise and say because they have a different selection criteria than PS they don't prioritise cut.

LOL! And the HCA was created based on another criteria of what they believe makes a diamond beautiful! I read his response to you about how and why he created the criteria/HCA in your other thread! And please notice that I said "CAN be lacking", not IS lacking. I'm not saying that there are no exceptionally cut stones. I'm saying that they don't get into the nitty gritty for cut most of the time. They usually emphasize high color and clarity.

This will probably be my last response to you because I can see it will be fruitless. When people respond on here about HCA results, it is almost always about stones that haven't been seen in person or that haven't been compared to any other stones. As stated many times in all the other threads, the HCA is a fairly easy way to eliminate stones that would be inferior. It's not saying that it's 100% accurate, that stones that score less than 2.0 are perfect or more than 2.0 are never great, it's just a QUICK reference tool for people at that particular stage of shopping. If YOU see a stone that is absolutely gorgeous to you, and you've given other stones a chance but keep coming back to that same stone, then who CARES what it scores on HCA!? Again, your vendetta against the HCA and the PSers that refer to it is just so odd to me!

 

[Laila619]

I guess I found it refreshing to see a diamond from a store that I see as top quality having a diamond with characteristics outside of what PS recommends.

As I said in my first reply, Harry Winston, Tiffany's, Cartier... the "big guns" are known for being expensive, and yes, for even being beautiful, but their cut criteria can be lacking. If CUT is king to you (general you), then doing lots of stone comparisons and getting additional images showing light return, etc. is best done online. You can trust that when you pay big bucks at Tiffany's or HW that you're not going to get an ugly frozen spit stone, but there is definitely NO guarantee that your big bucks are paying for ideal cut stones with superior light performance.

Totally agree with sonnyjane here. Sure their diamonds can be beautiful, but from a cut standpoint, they do not always have the cherry numbers. However, the average person probably doesn't care. But most PSers DO, and that is why they are here, to learn about what makes an ideal cut.

 

[bagelboy]

My understanding is that those big name brands carry and stock larger diamonds. Cutters who cut larger diamonds have to make a decision; a larger not so perfectly cut diamond or a smaller diamond with cherry angles. Most of the time it is more profitable to cut a larger diamond. If the diamond had a crown angle of 34.5/ pav of 40.9 it would have a better HCA score, however it might be 10 points lighter. A 2.6 instead of 2.7. Perhaps kiss away 5000 or 10,000. The average buyer at these stores are buying the brand name and looking for size and probably unaware of the different levels of cut. Besides cut standards are a relately new area for a lot of jewelers. Twenty years from now it will be well established.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

We have had instances of people shopping at stores such as Cartier, HW, etc. and posting stone measurements here. We saw that they ALL had a broader range of cut quality than we typically would recommend here (just as we may not love all GIA Excellent stones). In my own case, I wouldn't mind at all have a branded ring from a top jeweler, but the fact is, if I spend that kind of money, I will only choose rings with diamonds that are top cut quality. Paying a premium for the brand is one thing, but I also expect to get the best quality when I do.

But there are several of us who post often on Rocky Talky who are open to stones that score 2-3 on the HCA. I agree that we sometimes miss great stones if we dismiss that range.

 

[2023]

Thanks DiamondSeeker,

SonnyJ, not sure if you are still reading this as I have angered you. In answer to you thinking I have a vendetta against the HCA or people who use it that is untrue. It started when I saw a price difference between Blue Nile and James Allen. JA wrote back and said the difference I saw was not the case. This was a 1k difference in price for two same size, GIA ex, same colour. Another poster then commented that the bigger price differences, ie 1k was due to the slight angle differences between diamonds that could affect diamond performance, AKA the HCA. That's when I looked further into the HCA and saw that great diamonds could be missed ie the differences in AGS0, GIA exexex, AGA ideal and the HCA as DS also agrees, particularly those in the 2-3 range.

I thought confirmation bias could occur, causing people to rely so heavily on he HCA, that vendors associated with PS could potentially charge more for diamonds that fall within this threshold of the HCA and I hoped that people wouldn't miss out on great diamonds.

Now that you have reminded me why I started looking at the HCA in the first place, I just did a new search taking table and depth into account on BN.

I looked at 1 carat H colour, SI1, no flour, ex cut, ex sym
On Blue Nile:
Stock number: LD02658475
1.02 carat
Inclusions twining wisps
Depth 61.6%
Table 57%
40.6 pavilion
35.5 crown

$5661

On James Allen
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1429972.asp
1.00 carat
Inclusions crustalw
Depth 62.7%
Table 57%
41.2 pavilion
35 crown

$6890
Wire price $6787
Not sure what PS discount is

Again over a 1k difference, and here I took the HCA into consideration, the price difference is large. I picked a BN diamond with good specifications in this situation, and just picked the first JA diamond that came up in my search.

As I thought this was a consumer online forum for education and knowing options out there i thought that it would be useful information, not just for posters but for readers.

If you don't find it helpful and felt it was a personal attack, whatever.

 

[ruby59]

I find this discussion interesting because I just came across a Hearts on Fire diamond, which only got a 2.4 on the HCA. It scored 4 very goods. HOF diamonds are supposed to be percision cut, so I wonder why it did not do well on the HCA.

 

[2023]

Thanks Ruby59, HoF diamonds IMO are some of the best cut diamonds in the world. Its nice of you to chime in and say that. Some of the vitriolic attacks can get awful especially from people who seem to deliberately misinterpret and twist my words, its quite horrible. One of the things that freaks me out a bit on this forum is the 'group think' mentality.

At least it reminded me as to why I even looked at the angles etc ie to further understand the price differences. I hope most regulars and and readers can see that the above example (a couple posts back) as well and find it useful or at least interesting.

Thanks for your post

 

[Christina...]

Like SonyJane and many of the others that posted, I too am getting tired of trying to explain the HCA to you, so this will be my last response to you on this topic. But I did want to clarify a few things for anyone that may be reading this now or in the future...



with regards to hoping people would not automatically disregarding diamonds that had HCA scores of 2-3 and to consider GIA excellents that were also AGS0 candidates, at least investigating them further...Gary H chimed in as well to the topic and agreed diamonds in the 2-3 range were worth considering more.


It is NOT necessary to use the HCA when considering AGS0 stones, nor do PS veterans recommend that consumers do this.


.Gary H chimed in as well to the topic and agreed diamonds in the 2-3 range were worth considering more.


You should not misquote people! This is what Garry response was...

2023 I agree there can be stones in the 2-3 range worth considering. If they are top symmetry, if there is no painting or digging.
When I first began working on the HCA data there were way fewer stones with really good optical symmetry, so given the choice of slightly deeper or slightly shallower in my experience shallower works better if there are sym deviations.

That response is different than simply stating that GarryH agreed with you. You do this often I've noticed.

Did you read the link that Dreamer posted? Our goal isn't to help consumers purchase 'good enough' our goal is to help them purchase the best that their budget allows. Too often the big name companies put emphasis on color and clarity combos than they do on cut. Cut is still greatly misunderstood by not only consumers but trades people. Most people, and I include you, believe that GIA EX is good enough, we are here to teach people that sometimes it isn't. We don't have a dog in the race, we have no reason to steer people one way or the other, our only goal is to help others purchase the most beautiful stone for the best price possible PERIOD. PS is about transparency. No one makes a profit from their recommendations, or the tools we use to reach those recommendations . In fact often times when images are available our eyes tell us as much about a stone and how it may perform as the HCA does. However, most posters here are simply looking for guidance and not a study of cut quality, it is these peoples that the HCA gives the most benefit. It allows them to quickly and easily eliminate stones and narrow there search to a select few. Will they pass by a great stone? Yep, maybe, but who cares?! He still ends up with a gorgeous stone by following the advice given to him. There are thousands of gorgeous diamonds out there, I don't have to consider each and everyone of them so long as I end up with ONE of them.


There is a lot if potential fear mongering on here that does discourage a lot of buyers.


It's not an attempt at 'fear mongering'. We discourage no one, we simply empower them to buy the most beautiful diamond within their budget. What we are attempting to do is create safe options for consumers that only understand that cut is important, but don't yet understand how to determine cut quality for themselves. HCA is the first safety net, Idealscopes are the second, their eyes will be the final judge. Most of the consumers posting on PS are purchasing sight unseen. It's a nerve racking experience to spend thousands of dollars on an item that you can't see. The tools that PSers recommended are tried and true, that is why we continue to recommend them time and time again. This isn't the first time most of us have been around the block, sharing our experiences and knowledge is what makes this community a success. We have used these tools ourselves, we know them to work within the parameters in which they were designed to work. It is not fear mongering, it is our experience as a group.

How they select their inventory is based on their criteria of what they believe makes a beautiful diamond, and they have their years of experience, their knowledge of diamonds, their huge inventory and their brand name to back that up.

This is just funny coming from someone who tries to repeatedly discredit the HCA. You give more credence to Tiffany HW and Cartier who are trying to sell you their brand than you do to the HCA which can be applied to any cut diamond regardless of who sells it. I think that Sonnyjane answered this nicely. Yes, they have their own cut criteria, as does Garry H.


NO ONE has ever claimed that by using the HCA that you would not eliminate a possible beauty of a stone, no one ever claimed that every diamond that scored under two would be gorgeous. We simply use it as a weeding tool. Consumers are more likely to end up with a list of potentially beautifully stones by using the HCA than they would by not using it. We ALWAYS suggest that consumers next request idealscope images of the stone, and finally that they use THEIR EYES as the final and most important tool in their arsenal.

 

[Christina...]

I find this discussion interesting because I just came across a Hearts on Fire diamond, which only got a 2.4 on the HCA. It scored 4 very goods. HOF diamonds are supposed to be percision cut, so I wonder why it did not do well on the HCA.

You need to request IS images, IS images trump the HCA. If you have a specific stone in mind and would like opinions you should start a thread so that veteran PSers can advise.

edit: typo

 

[2023]

I have addressed the misrepresentation and misquoting so many times on other threads I just can't do it again and I don't mean to be rude but I couldn't even bring myself to read Christina's post at all. I'm hoping anyone who's read anything knows from past discussions i have tried to explain myself very clearly before.

I'm surprised no one has commented on the $1000 plus price difference as that's pretty pertinent I would have thought.

If you really wanted you could always buy an idealscope for 25 dollars and be really thorough (take images etc) and make use of the return policy... Potentially saving 1000+ dollars. Plus the diamond posted from BN the details looked a bit better too.

Hopefully someone out there gets something from this thread.

 

[2023]

I find this discussion interesting because I just came across a Hearts on Fire diamond, which only got a 2.4 on the HCA. It scored 4 very goods. HOF diamonds are supposed to be percision cut, so I wonder why it did not do well on the HCA.

You need to request IS images, IS images trump the HCA. If you have a specific stone in mind and would like opinions you should start a thread so that veteran PSers can advise.

edit: typo

I did read this post. Hearts on Fire diamonds are precisely cut diamonds that specialise in perfect hearts and arrows formation in the cut. Their cutters spend extra time cutting these diamonds. They are very precisely cut diamonds probably more so than any metrics we've discussed here, and are extremely beautiful diamonds in person. They are why many vendors here put an extra premium on diamonds they can find that exhibit those patterns and call them HnA diamonds.

I don't need to be a veteran on PS to say quite confidently that a Hearts on Fire diamond would be one of the best cut diamonds you can get, without even needing IS images.

 

[GreenBling]

From a consumer and newbie perspective, I do find HCA very useful, along with GIA, AGS, ASET, IS, this forum, etc. I fully understand each tool and advice has its merits and flaws. To me, the benefit ouutweighs the risk of missing out on great stones as I will for sure end up with the top performers.

 

[yssie]

Many things affect pricing - vendor, manufacturer, location, policies, branding, time of year, time the stone was cut, batch the stone was cut from, time in inventory, real-world inclusion placement and visibility, last full moon... HCA is not and has never been on that list.

 

[Laila619]

I find this discussion interesting because I just came across a Hearts on Fire diamond, which only got a 2.4 on the HCA. It scored 4 very goods. HOF diamonds are supposed to be percision cut, so I wonder why it did not do well on the HCA.

Precise hearts and arrows (HOF diamonds) is more about optical symmetry, not about light performance. You can have a stone with fantastic light performance but imperfect hearts and arrows, and vice versa.

 

[Dreamer_D]

2023 you are reminding me a lot of a poster on this forum from a while ago, Isabelle/RedRobbin . I'll be curious to see how your threads progress as time goes on. Whether your thinking follows the same pathways that hers did.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Many things affect pricing - vendor, manufacturer, location, policies, branding, time of year, time the stone was cut, batch the stone was cut from, time in inventory, real-world inclusion placement and visibility, last full moon... HCA is not and has never been on that list.

Exactly.

 

[2023]

2023 you are reminding me a lot of a poster on this forum from a while ago, Isabelle/RedRobbin . I'll be curious to see how your threads progress as time goes on. Whether your thinking follows the same pathways that hers did.

I'm not advocating brand names, have my own agenda, troll or created wars on my own threads. I don't know if this was another stab at me, to undermine me, shut me up or get the other members of PS to disagree with me and have a 'can you believe the nerve of that poster to disagree with us' moment etc etc. No idea.

I simply thought or believed this was a 'consumer' forum to educate people to get the best deals possible of the best diamond. So the BN diamond was a great example of an excellent stone that is much cheaper 1000+ (15-20% more) with an option of getting an idealscope if that is such a concern.

However this place seems not, for the majority of posters a place of unbiased opinion to get the best deals possible or people would be jumping on the BN diamonds, with an idealscope in hand (if they chose to do that). It seems there is no way to counteract the propaganda on this forum which is extremely disappointing.

I love diamonds, and I believe in great cut diamonds, I believe that the HCA has its merits, as does AGS0 and GIA and other places. What I don't believe is that this is the same forum it was 8 years ago, when it was a fly under the radar place, to discuss vendors openly.

It's disappointing, as I came on this forum because I love diamonds, and I like to help people and hoped to chat with people who shared that passion which as most on here know, not everyone in real life shares, the passion of beautiful diamonds!

I just can't handle the diatribe, so I'm glad that has stopped, but I also can't handle the cult like response of people to my threads. There doesn't appear to be one independent poster, apart from a couple of the people with less than 200 posts.

PS does have great information, however, you could also summarize that in one page, for a lot of the posts, that are cut and paste, and repeated over and over again. If this really was a forum (which I thought at the beginning) was a place for openly discussing vendors and getting the best diamond and price possible people would consider the example I posted earlier of BN vs JA.

 

[Laila619]

Sigh. This isn't about group think or all of us following the herd. We've all seen the difference between traditionally cut diamonds and incredibly well cut diamonds. I mean, what do you want posters to say? That a diamond that scores 4.5 on the HCA is going to be a beaut?

 

[canuk-gal]

2023 you are reminding me a lot of a poster on this forum from a while ago, Isabelle/RedRobbin . I'll be curious to see how your threads progress as time goes on. Whether your thinking follows the same pathways that hers did.

I'm not advocating brand names, have my own agenda, troll or created wars on my own threads. I don't know if this was another stab at me, to undermine me, shut me up or get the other members of PS to disagree with me and have a 'can you believe the nerve of that poster to disagree with us' moment etc etc. No idea.

I simply thought or believed this was a 'consumer' forum to educate people to get the best deals possible of the best diamond. So the BN diamond was a great example of an excellent stone that is much cheaper 1000+ (15-20% more) with an option of getting an idealscope if that is such a concern.

However this place seems not, for the majority of posters a place of unbiased opinion to get the best deals possible or people would be jumping on the BN diamonds, with an idealscope in hand (if they chose to do that). It seems there is no way to counteract the propaganda on this forum which is extremely disappointing.

I love diamonds, and I believe in great cut diamonds, I believe that the HCA has its merits, as does AGS0 and GIA and other places. What I don't believe is that this is the same forum it was 8 years ago, when it was a fly under the radar place, to discuss vendors openly.

It's disappointing, as I came on this forum because I love diamonds, and I like to help people and hoped to chat with people who shared that passion which as most on here know, not everyone in real life shares, the passion of beautiful diamonds!

I just can't handle the diatribe, so I'm glad that has stopped, but I also can't handle the cult like response of people to my threads. There doesn't appear to be one independent poster, apart from a couple of the people with less than 200 posts.

PS does have great information, however, you could also summarize that in one page, for a lot of the posts, that are cut and paste, and repeated over and over again. If this really was a forum (which I thought at the beginning) was a place for openly discussing vendors and getting the best diamond and price possible people would consider the example I posted earlier of BN vs JA.

HI:

Until you make a cogent argument that is not rife with grammatical errors and insults, it is likely your posts will continue to be approached with incredulity. Or ignored completely. And that is nothing like "herd mentality"; rather a consequence of your antagonistic verbage.

Sharon

 

[LetItShine]

I guess I'll chime in here. I'm not in the market for a diamond anymore but still lurk on the forums for fun. I haven't read past posts from 2023 so will only comment on this one. It appears that 2023 is trying to make a couple different points. I think HCA has been addressed enough...I'll leave that well alone I will just comment on what 2023 is trying to say about BN vs. Preferred vendors.

I found this forum AFTER I purchased my diamond through BN. I was in the 30 day return period so was still researching to determine if I made a good choice. In reading through all the past posts, it didn't take me long to worry that I made a bad choice. I didn't have idealscope, asset, or gemologist opinion on "eye clean". I bought my diamond based on proportions and cut (signature ideal). I did compare prices among all the online vendors prior to my purchase and couldn't find anything with similar specs at the time that was even close to BN in price. So, BN also won based on price. I agree that many factors influence price...BN explained that to me as well. I can understand what 2023 is trying to say. If I had read the forums PRIOR to my purchase, I would have probably chosen a vendor that offered asset and idealscope based on the abundance of recommendations to do so. In that case, I would have missed out on a beautiful diamond at a good price. I never bought an idealscope, don't need it. I never even viewed my diamond under magnification.

With that said, it was always very clear to me what HCA was designed for and that there are some exceptions and limitations. Everyone on this forum has always stressed CUT IS KING and have done an outstanding job helping those who come here find the most beautiful diamond within their budget. I think that is why I still lurk...I enjoy reading people stories of finding the perfect diamond.

 

[Christina...]

2023 you are reminding me a lot of a poster on this forum from a while ago, Isabelle/RedRobbin . I'll be curious to see how your threads progress as time goes on. Whether your thinking follows the same pathways that hers did.

I'm not advocating brand names, have my own agenda, troll or created wars on my own threads. I don't know if this was another stab at me, to undermine me, shut me up or get the other members of PS to disagree with me and have a 'can you believe the nerve of that poster to disagree with us' moment etc etc. No idea.

I simply thought or believed this was a 'consumer' forum to educate people to get the best deals possible of the best diamond. So the BN diamond was a great example of an excellent stone that is much cheaper 1000+ (15-20% more) with an option of getting an idealscope if that is such a concern.

However this place seems not, for the majority of posters a place of unbiased opinion to get the best deals possible or people would be jumping on the BN diamonds, with an idealscope in hand (if they chose to do that). It seems there is no way to counteract the propaganda on this forum which is extremely disappointing.

I love diamonds, and I believe in great cut diamonds, I believe that the HCA has its merits, as does AGS0 and GIA and other places. What I don't believe is that this is the same forum it was 8 years ago, when it was a fly under the radar place, to discuss vendors openly.

It's disappointing, as I came on this forum because I love diamonds, and I like to help people and hoped to chat with people who shared that passion which as most on here know, not everyone in real life shares, the passion of beautiful diamonds!

I just can't handle the diatribe, so I'm glad that has stopped, but I also can't handle the cult like response of people to my threads. There doesn't appear to be one independent poster, apart from a couple of the people with less than 200 posts.

PS does have great information, however, you could also summarize that in one page, for a lot of the posts, that are cut and paste, and repeated over and over again. If this really was a forum (which I thought at the beginning) was a place for openly discussing vendors and getting the best diamond and price possible people would consider the example I posted earlier of BN vs JA.

I think Sharon said it nicely.

2023: Long time posters and lurkers realize that you have very little actual knowledge about diamonds. My concern is that you attempt to post with such authority (grammatically incorrect and incoherent as they may be) and if left uncorrected, could be harmful to newcomers and lurkers alike. You may feel picked on, and disrespected, but as you yourself say, this is a consumer forum, where the intent is to help educate consumers (even if they openly reject the information) and help them purchase the best performing diamond within their budget. We attempt to offer safe options for the consumer to consider. Our aim isn't to make a few selections with no additional information other than a report and say 'Here this one MIGHT be ok, order it and see what your eyes think!' , as you suggest in this post. When there is opportunity to purchase a stone with more valuable information than just a lab report then that is the direction that I will encourage consumers to go. Buying sight unseen is risky enough without piling more risk on top. And contrary to your thought that we dismiss BN when they may be a better deal, I, and many others, have over and over again suggested that consumers contact another vendor with the ability to provide additional information. The particular vendor that I'm talking about will also beat BN price, so how is that not in the best interest of the consumer??

You can continue to post your dissent all you want, but please back it up with coherent arguments.