Frustrating appraisal experience

[dani13]

Date: 12/17/2005 1:28:19 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
I''m just not comfortable eliminating dealers from my clientele. Most of these guys are sincere businessmen wanting to avoid making mistakes and give their clients the best possible service they can. They come to me not because they want to ''pull the wool'' over their client''s eyes, but for the exact opposite reason. They want to give their client''s the advantage of complete disclosure of the characteristics and value of their merchandise.

I have the benefit of examining a tremendous amount of gemstones and jewelry that I would never see if I did only business for consumers. Dealers come to me with the latest gemstone finds, jewelry techniques and knowledge. Many of these individuals are specialists in their fields, having spent a lifetime acquiring knowledge. They share that knowledge with me readily, and enjoy submitting their latest acquisitions for examination. This makes me a better appraiser.

An appraiser who does business only for private individuals is like a lone wolf (in my opinion), operating outside of any industry checks and balances. He rarely receives any feedback on his quality and valuation decisions, because the consumer is not knowledgeable enough to question his findings and decisions. Knowledgeable dealers, on the other hand, will quickly point out if you have fallen behind on the latest available information and pricing.

You really have to know what you''re doing to consistently do dealer work. With privates, you can make mistakes all day long and not be ''caught'' at it. With dealers, you''re going to get challenged quickly if you''ve fallen behind on the latest and are remiss in your findings. These challenges serve to keep you continuously on top of what is going on in the market.

I can understand completely consumers wanting to be sure of unbiasedness and impartiality. If someone makes known to me they have a gemstone from a vendor that I regularly do work for, I point it out immediately. More often than not though, the client doesn''t want to tell you where they got the stone from, so it''s a moot point anyway.

Let me ask this question of consumers. If you were going to undergo a difficult surgery, wouldn''t you derive a certain level of comfort from the fact that many knowledgeable doctors went to your surgeon for their operations?

As far as a dealer wanting to pay for an appraisal for a client looking at their stone, I have no problem with it. It doesn''t happen that often, but when it does I inform the customer that I do the same work and come to the same conclusions regardless who pays me. My integrity is not for sale.

Rich-
I understand your points completely. This is, in fact, what the appraiser said to my FI and I when we were in his office. He made sure to point out that even though the vendor was paying for the appraisal, he was working for US, not the vendor, and spent a lot of time with us reviewing the diamond. We just didnt question it at all once we were in the situation...

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 12/18/2005 9:55:33 AM
Author: Dani

I understand your points completely. This is, in fact, what the appraiser said to my FI and I when we were in his office. He made sure to point out that even though the vendor was paying for the appraisal, he was working for US, not the vendor, and spent a lot of time with us reviewing the diamond. We just didnt question it at all once we were in the situation...

Your instincts were probably correct, Dani.

I noticed you made the statement earlier "Like I said before, I want to believe and would think that most people are honest businessmen (women)..."

The truth is that the majority of business people are honest, and your life will be much less stressful trusting most and being disappointed once in a while, rather than distrusting all and being proved right once in a while.

You''ll also find that if you trust your intuition you will cut those "once in a whiles" down considerably. Human intuition is an amazing and powerful tool, very effective in spotting deception in its many forms.

 

[dani13]

Date: 12/18/2005 1:47:29 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 12/18/2005 9:55:33 AM
Author: Dani

I understand your points completely. This is, in fact, what the appraiser said to my FI and I when we were in his office. He made sure to point out that even though the vendor was paying for the appraisal, he was working for US, not the vendor, and spent a lot of time with us reviewing the diamond. We just didnt question it at all once we were in the situation...

Your instincts were probably correct, Dani.

I noticed you made the statement earlier ''Like I said before, I want to believe and would think that most people are honest businessmen (women)...''

The truth is that the majority of business people are honest, and your life will be much less stressful trusting most and being disappointed once in a while, rather than distrusting all and being proved right once in a while.

You''ll also find that if you trust your intuition you will cut those ''once in a whiles'' down considerably. Human intuition is an amazing and powerful tool, very effective in spotting deception in its many forms.

Excellently put, if I say so myself, Rich. I like to think that I am very good with my "gut feelings," so to speak. I rely on those feelings very often- in everyday life, while I am working ( I am a nurse), etc. I just didn''t question the vendor or the appraiser at the time. When this thread was originally posted, I was worried, because I realized that the same appraiser newlyengaged was speaking about did my appraisal. I actually told my fiance about this thread and he was suprised to hear that someone had such a negative experience with this appraiser. Both him and I thought he was very professional and thorough. But, I guess everyone has bad days....I would like to think this was the case.
I dont want to be all paranoid now, but do you think I should get the stone reappraised? I want to think that everything was legit, but all I want to know is that we got what we paid for. What do you think, Rich?

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 12/18/2005 8:19:56 PM
Author: Dani

I dont want to be all paranoid now, but do you think I should get the stone reappraised? I want to think that everything was legit, but all I want to know is that we got what we paid for. What do you think, Rich?

You're the only one who can answer that question Dani.

If you're uneasy, you might consider getting another appraisal. If you're just curious, you might be able to satisfy that curiousity by comparing prices with similar diamonds from Pricescope's search engine. If you feel confident the Pricescope vendor was honest and the appraiser wouldn't risk his rep by concealing or distorting information, you just might be able to put the matter to bed.

Whatever you need to sleep with peace.

 

[mrssparkles]

Date: 12/11/2005 9:16:26 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
http://www.gia.edu/education/24274/accredited_jewelry_professional.cfm
The appraiser concerned lists AJP after his name.
This is a jewellery management and sales training course.
It seems inappropriate.

Would the Appraiser concerned please post a defence?

I think unless we get a reasonable explanation, this person should be takenb off the list.

I am currently trying to make up my mind which appraiser to consult, to do a comprehensive appraisal for me. This thread has caused me great unease. I think I am in a very vulnerable position, because I am from outside of the US. Whoever I engage, has to be trustworthy, and assist me in forwarding the prospective diamond to me.

Has this person been removed from the list yet?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 12/18/2005 11:11:22 PM
Author: mrssparkles

I am currently trying to make up my mind which appraiser to consult, to do a comprehensive appraisal for me. This thread has caused me great unease. I think I am in a very vulnerable position, because I am from outside of the US. Whoever I engage, has to be trustworthy, and assist me in forwarding the prospective diamond to me.

Has this person been removed from the list yet?

Yes - gone - zippo.

It would be hard to go past the appraisers who have chimed in here.
They are active in helping on this board and value the referrals they get from here so they will certainly be sure to do the right thing - mind you, it is a chaicken and egg thing - they do the right thing, so they get refferrals, and .... you know what i mean

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/19/2005 2:25:59 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 12/18/2005 11:11:22 PM

Author: mrssparkles


I am currently trying to make up my mind which appraiser to consult, to do a comprehensive appraisal for me. This thread has caused me great unease. I think I am in a very vulnerable position, because I am from outside of the US. Whoever I engage, has to be trustworthy, and assist me in forwarding the prospective diamond to me.


Has this person been removed from the list yet?

Yes - gone - zippo.


It would be hard to go past the appraisers who have chimed in here.

They are active in helping on this board and value the referrals they get from here so they will certainly be sure to do the right thing - mind you, it is a chaicken and egg thing - they do the right thing, so they get refferrals, and .... you know what i mean

I agree with Garry, you can read this thread and get a pretty good idea who to deal with.

 

[solange]

Date: 12/15/2005 12:06:49 PM
Author: smarty33
solange,

I am writing as a representative of the firm which, I am informed, carried out the appraisal to which you are referring. I am neither the appraiser in question nor the assistant mentioned. The appraiser is, at this point in time, on assignment in a sensitive part of the country and has no access to the internet and therefore no means by which to respond. The assistant is no longer with us. I have spoken to the appraiser at length about this concerning issue but given the time that has lapsed between the appraisal date and now the recollection of events is limited. In addition, I have not seen the appraisal in question. I do not know your name nor do I know the date on which the appraisal was carried out. I am writing in response to this issue only. We are not the firm cited by the original post in this thread.

OK, that out of the way. I want to offer my sincerest apologies for your unsatisfactory experience. It is absolutely not our normal practice to open shipped items without the client being present. Furthermore, it is absolutely not our normal practice to conduct appraisals in the clients absence without their expressed permission. I can offer no excuses why this happened in your case and to speculate would be pointless. I can assure you though that there was certainly no copying from any of the documentation that accompanied the diamond. A full verification of identity & quality would have taken place. The fact that the information offered in our report matched the information on the accompanying documentation merely serves as testament to the accuracy of these documents. The verification process takes, at minimum, 1 hour to complete. After which there is further time spent on editing and production. With questions and answers the typical total time for a verification of this nature would be no less than 2 hours. Of course you could not have known this having not been given the opportunity to bear witness to, and participate in, the process. If a value is requested in addition to the verification of quality then further time is required to accurately research the marketplace and for this we must charge an additional fee. There is also an issue liability associated with putting a value on an item. This should have been clearly explained to you when we were asked “if the stone was worth what I paid for it”.

We pride ourselves in the services we offer and indeed base our business around repeat appraisals and referrals. The compensation we receive for our services is merely a reflection of the marketplace in which we have chosen to operate. Satisfaction of our clients is absolutely paramount and comes before time and money. Indeed, without client satisfaction we will cease to exist, have lots of time and no money! You were clearly not satisfied with your experience and to this end I would like to offer you one of two things - either 1) A full refund of the fees paid or 2) a complimentary appraisal (inc. replacement value) conducted in your presence.

Respectfully yours,

I have no confidence in the appraisal given me by your firm and do not want to cause myself any more stress by going there. I'd rather go to the dentist.
The package was definitely opened before my arrival and the assistant who is no longer with you or on the Pricescope list of approved appraisers--he was for a while after heleft your firm-- actually conducted the appraisal and signed it.
I am going to take my jewelry to one of the more highly recommended appraisers on this list. I really got angry again when I recently read another appraiser's procedure--he has the client open the package and examines the stone before looking at the information provided by the vendor.
As I explained, I called from a cab and said I would be 10 minutes late and by the time I got there, the package had been opened and the appraisal done. Given the time frame of when the stone arrived that morning and the time I got there, there is no way that 2 hours could have been spent on that stone.
I wasted my time and money but you can keep it because I want no further contact with your firm. You should not be on Pricescope's recmmended list.
Obviously you do not abide by what you claim is your strict rule of not opening the package until the client is present because when I mentioned that I was under this impression and was upset by it, no explanations or apologies were given. It is too late now to come up with a policy that should have been in effect and enforced, particularly with a large, expensive stone where a small difference in clarity or color grade could amount to a substantial difference in value and since you charged by the carat I feel i was entitled to better service for the amount of money I paid.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 12/15/2005 12:18:20 PM
Author: oldminer
RockDoc is a wonderful example of care and concern for the client. How he gets by on a $20 per hour rate is somewhat questionable, but we recognize his dedication to the client. We need to get him a better timekeeper so he can make a few bucks, too. There is a reasonable limit to how much time can be justifed for each assignment. Some appraisers are in too big a hurry, or just don''t look close enough to do a good job. Some balance the requirements and time very well. A diamond can take from 20 minutes to over an hour to properly assess in full, but a lot less time if one does a cursory examination. Then you come to those who can and do every conceivable test in the book regardless of the time or actual necessity. This is great if the fee stays reasonable, but quite overpriced if the fee becomes inordinantly large.

If the client receives all the important information plus all the extra information they requested, then the job is probably done well.

RE; Timekeeper..... Personally I hate it when I have to go to someone who''s services are based on a time meter.. Guess that comes from being taken for a uneeded tour when I have had to take cabs.

I''d rather know a flat rate of what the service is going to cost, knowing that the service is completely and carefully rendered. I think most consumers would agree. Also I sort of review my aunt''s medical bills. I am FLOORED when I see a bill where the services were performed by an assistant rather than the doctor, but the charge is at the doctor''s rate.

Being that I prefer to not be charged in the carte blanche mode, I have tossed out my timekeeping device years ago, and just do what needs to be done, regardless of how long it takes.

I just consider it an "average"rather than a case by case hourly billing when it comes to consumers wanting to know what they are buying.

For really advanced work, like expert witness cases, I do charge by the hour, although many times I feel guilty billing for the time it actually takes. I have one currently that I''ve spent about 75 hours on,and since the average rate for appraiser is about $ 150.00 per hour, I can''t in good conscience bill the client $7000.00 or more for what I did.

Curiously though GIA charges the same amount whether the stone is flawless or an I-3. But a few years ago they sort of "bitched" at the time it took to draw and plot all the inclusions in a I-3 stone I had submitted for them in a large misrepresentation case. That stone had over 75 inclusions in it, some actually being open cleavages.

While I do spend an enormous amount of time on a supelative diamond - I occasionally get the ones that are so horrid they only take a few minutes, and my charge for that is $ 30.00 per carat. So on those stones I do average a higher hourly rate, but the charge is still reasonably sensible for the client.

Guess I am a bit crazy about this, but I have like the guy I shave in the mirror every morning.

Rockdoc

 

[Modified Brilliant]

While I do spend an enormous amount of time on a supelative diamond - I occasionally get the ones that are so horrid they only take a few minutes, and my charge for that is $ 30.00 per carat. So on those stones I do average a higher hourly rate, but the charge is still reasonably sensible for the client.
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I think it''s important that consumers know that there are appraisers, like RocDoc, who use good judgement and common sense when charging fees for their services. I like to think that I''m fair....had a client a few weeks back with a consumer related issue which we discussed for an hour. I could not reach a conclusion, gave her some expert advice, and didn''t charge her a penny for my time. If an item such as a designer gold necklace needs an appraisal, obviously it won''t take an hour and the fee will be reduced. Fees are sometimes handled on a case by case basis and unlike most lawyers, our fees are not set in stone. Again, I can''t speak for others...not everyone will feel the same about this issue. Oftentimes the quality of the work is reflected in the price.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com