Frustrating appraisal experience

[RockDoc]

Is this "Appraisal Fraud" in your opinion ?


There is news that a 6 carat plus diamond has been offered on ebay. The diamond is pink in color, and has a GIA report that states it was HPHT processed.

The Buy it Now price is 1.2 million but there is an appraisal for 3 million that is included with it.

I''m gonna see if I can find this listing and edit this post with a link to it, here but initially the press release about this made me wonder.

It is going to be interesting to see if the appraisal is actually posted. Before I look at it, I wonder if there is a narrative explanation as to why an appraisal is offered for an amount that is greater than the offering price. I think most competent appraisers would agree that the valuation should be based on acheived comparable sales, and that even if there were the esistance of other sales for pink treated diamonds of this size for more, a valuation for the exact item should be a lot more inl line wity the price it is being offered for is far more proper, but it appears that sellers often value items that are sold for less for more, without credible and responsible explanation. It will be interesting to see if this expanation exists.

more on this later

Rockdoc


I''ll ammend this as I look at the details.

Rockdoc

 

[smarty33]

Dani

If by "compliments" you mean the appraisal was paid for by the vendor then this may be an area for concern.

It is generally considered best practice to seek independent advice and pay for it yourself.

 

[dani13]

Yes, I am sorry if I was unclear. But Toby, you are correct, the appraisal was paid for by the vendor I bought the stone from. It did cross my mind at the time that I should probably seek another independent appraisal, but my FI bought the stone from a trusted pricescope vendor, so I didnt question it too much. Like I said before, I want to believe and would think that most people are honest businessmen (women) and just use this strategy (free appraisals) as part of marketing their business.

 

[solange]

I am surprised to learn that a Pricescope vendor would send a customer to a particular appraiser and pay for the appraisal. It may be just a very nice thing to do to accommodate a customer but it seems that the appraiser was working for the vendor and not for you. It should be the other way around in my opnion.

I agree with Smarty but would like to hear from others as to whether this can be considered an objective appraisal. It is surprising to me that an independent appraiser would agree to such an arrangement.

On another subject, I would still like an answer to the question I posted in two places. RockDoc mentions stones that, unmounted, were graded face down as J-L but face up when mounted appeared as as G-H. Is this strictly related to the cut or do some stones have particular properties that would make them face up in a much better color when mounted.?

This can amount to a very substantial difference in price, regardless of cut. As an example, the appraiser who saw Newly Engaged's mounted stone could not tell visually if it were a D,E, or F. Why pay for a D color if you can get an F that looks like it could be a D even to a trained eye?

How can one make certain that they get such a stone and are not paying for a better color than meets the trained eye when mounted?

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 12/16/2005 3:28:14 PM
Author: solange
I am surprised to learn that a Pricescope vendor would send a customer to a particular appraiser and pay for the appraisal. It may be just a very nice thing to do to accommodate a customer but it seems that the appraiser was working for the vendor and not for you. It should be the other way around in my opnion.

I agree with Smarty but would like to hear from others as to whether this can be considered an objective appraisal. It is surprising to me that an independent appraiser would agree to such an arrangement.

On another subject, I would still like an answer to the question I posted in two places. RockDoc mentions stones that, unmounted, were graded face down as J-L but face up when mounted appeared as as G-H. Is this strictly related to the cut or do some stones have particular properties that would make them face up in a much better color when mounted.?

This can amount to a very substantial difference in price, regardless of cut. As an example, the appraiser who saw Newly Engaged''s mounted stone could not tell visually if it were a D,E, or F. Why pay for a D color if you can get an F that looks like it could be a D even to a trained eye?

How can one make certain that they get such a stone and are not paying for a better color than meets the trained eye when mounted?

Having your appraisal done by a seller''s agent and paid for by the seller, is patently wrong in my opinion.

If you are doing a report that you know as an appraiser is going to be relied on by a potentially opposing third party opens up a world of legal liability problems.

There is certainly nothing wrong with doing work for dealers or sellers for their use. But when you add a thrid party, that begins to become an immense consideration as to who''s interest was served.

This of course is a personal choice of the appraiser to either work on both side of the fence or not to. I choose exclusively preparing reports with the consumer''s interest as my priority directive.

I know that other appraisers do not agree with me, but I made the choice and stick by it.

The measure of consideration is : Would ANYONE question the independence of the report as presented? If so, then it really won''t pass the test of being disinterested and biased.

Rockdoc

 

[RockDoc]

Well I looked on ebay and couldn''t find the stone below. The press release did say it was qualified bidders, so maybe it''s listed in a different spoit on ebay.

Did any readers see it, or can you post the link to it here if you do find it (i''m a compu-grape and a bigger ebay compugrape)

Rockdoc

Date: 12/16/2005 1:03:13 PM
Author: RockDoc

Is this ''Appraisal Fraud'' in your opinion ?


There is news that a 6 carat plus diamond has been offered on ebay. The diamond is pink in color, and has a GIA report that states it was HPHT processed.

The Buy it Now price is 1.2 million but there is an appraisal for 3 million that is included with it.

I''m gonna see if I can find this listing and edit this post with a link to it, here but initially the press release about this made me wonder.

It is going to be interesting to see if the appraisal is actually posted. Before I look at it, I wonder if there is a narrative explanation as to why an appraisal is offered for an amount that is greater than the offering price. I think most competent appraisers would agree that the valuation should be based on acheived comparable sales, and that even if there were the esistance of other sales for pink treated diamonds of this size for more, a valuation for the exact item should be a lot more inl line wity the price it is being offered for is far more proper, but it appears that sellers often value items that are sold for less for more, without credible and responsible explanation. It will be interesting to see if this expanation exists.

more on this later

Rockdoc


I''ll ammend this as I look at the details.

Rockdoc

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 12/16/2005 2:58:40 PM
Author: Dani
Yes, I am sorry if I was unclear. But Toby, you are correct, the appraisal was paid for by the vendor I bought the stone from. It did cross my mind at the time that I should probably seek another independent appraisal, but my FI bought the stone from a trusted pricescope vendor, so I didnt question it too much. Like I said before, I want to believe and would think that most people are honest businessmen (women) and just use this strategy (free appraisals) as part of marketing their business.

This is one of the few areas where I’ve have a significantly different approach than Rockdoc. I regularly do work for dealers. They will hire me to identify and grade stones, photograph things, Sarin stones, Gemprint, and even help them with their buying selections. I also do work for insurance companies, banks, other appraisers and government agencies.

I encourage dealers to fully document what they’re selling and have gone so far as to teach classes in how to do it well. If they follow my advice, these documents will never be titled ‘appraisal’, they won’t list a price that’s different from transaction price and they won’t be presented as ‘independent’ of the store. To the contrary, they should be presented as a mark of pride for the store and the fine products that they are selling. ‘Warranty’ is a my suggested title.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[RockDoc]

This is one of the few areas where I’ve have a significantly different approach than Rockdoc. I regularly do work for dealers. They will hire me to identify and grade stones, photograph things, Sarin stones, Gemprint, and even help them with their buying selections. I also do work for insurance companies, banks, other appraisers and government agencies.

I encourage dealers to fully document what they’re selling and have gone so far as to teach classes in how to do it well. If they follow my advice, these documents will never be titled ‘appraisal’, they won’t list a price that’s different from transaction price and they won’t be presented as ‘independent’ of the store. To the contrary, they should be presented as a mark of pride for the store and the fine products that they are selling. ‘Warranty’ is a my suggested title.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver


________________________________________


Neil

Given the response above really do not disagree. You've clarified what the report is, who it is for, who's interest it is made for, and I believe it would pass the "Reasonable Persons Test".

The type of report I am referring to is the far more common one propagated with intent to misinform consumers that they are getting a deall that paints a false and deceptive portrayal that they are paying less than something is worth. That is very different from what you are doing. It is the type that IS titled appraisal and the purpose is defined as "for insurance purposes" when in fact consumers are relying on an inflated report which they use for a purpose of assuming that this higher value actually is prepared properly for their use as reliance that they got a "good deal" or it is used as a way of consideration of the value of the item to someone that in the future they turn it over to.

I certainly realize that the terms and conditions of your report probably restrict the use of the report for a use other than the one(s) outlined in your report, as taught in the ISA courses.

So we really don't disagree in this point to the extent you might have assumed we did.

We both know that not everyone out there practices what you've outlined, and that is what I am addressing in my post above, and definately I am not critical of the report that you describe, with one exception.

Respectfully, I would suggest that you not call this report a "Warranty". I am sure you could think of another title for it, as I believe that if it is called a warranty, it will have opened the "legal" door to having to comply with the Moss Magnusson Act. which defines and governs specific issues of warranty and further defines express warranty and implied warranty.

Rockdoc

 

[blitz]

I see "appraisals" that accompany diamonds sold by PS vendors. One last week was written by the seller, and within the body of the report stated that he had no interest in the item being appraised.
No interest? he just sold the customer the diamond!

 

[denverappraiser]

The warranty should spell out the details of whatever warranty is being offered. As with the description, this should be a matter of pride for the store. I agree that calling it a warranty without including the details of what is being warranted is asking for trouble. On the other hand, defining the ongoing warranty up front can go a long way to eliminating any hard feelings if something comes up.

I also fully understand which ‘appraisals’ you are protesting and I’m with you all the way that these are an embarrassment to the profession and a disservice to consumers. I assure you, I don’t author these, nor do I encourage others to do so. It’s the decision to never knowingly do business with a dealer where we differ.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[solange]

It sounds to me that it is clear that Denver Appraiser is working for the vendor and not the customer. Whiteflash sends this kind of documentation with their stones and i think this is perfectly acceptable because with the information provided it makes an appraisal easier and less costly if you do decide to go to an independent appraiser.

However, in this case, the customer was actually sent to the appraiser, if i understand correctly, and was given a "complimentay" appraisal paid for by the vendor. I think it is a very different matter to sell a stone with authentification by an expert and being given a so called"complimentary " appraisal by an appraiser selected and paid for by the vendor.

 

[RockDoc]

Hi Neil

Got a bit of confusion with the "warranty". Is it your report that is titled warranty. I understood from your first post this that the warranty was written and issued by you.

In the second post, it appears that the dealer for whom you graded it, is taking your information and opinion, and making a report himself, and the DEALER is the one providing the warranty.

My comment of course, was meant if you wrote the WARRANTY, which would be not the best thing to do since you would be accepting liability for the conditions contained in the warranty, but you weren''t selling the item.

Sorry if I misinterpreted what you were expressing.

We really are on the same page.

Rockdoc

 

[JohnQuixote]

Solange, I'm sure DenverAppraiser meant that he has dealers who are clients who would like him to grade diamonds, take a photo, run a Sarin, etc., of pieces they have in stock or are acquiring. This is completely unrelated to any appraisal for a customer buying FROM those dealers (Neil, please correct me if I misspoke anything).

This is not uncommon for appraisers: To do evaluations for dealers separately from consumers.

As for Whiteflash, we don't call our letter of verification an 'appraisal.' I often mention that this letter is included as a courtesy, not as a substitute for a full appraisal of the kind offered by notable appraisers: The letter includes the basics of weight, color, clarity & laser inscriptions as well as setting details and an approximate retail value. It is issued by a Houston area appraiser and suitable for insurance in many cases, which we hope will be helpful to our customers.

With our experts doing a pre-grade, the lab issuing the 'official' grade and the verifying appraiser performing a further check we have done everything in our power to authenticate the purchase for our clients.

There is still great security in hiring an independent expert. As this thread has shown, you should shop for your appraiser just as you shop for a vendor. The range of services and reputability of different appraisers can vary. It always pays to do your homework.

 

[solange]

Date: 12/16/2005 6:38:11 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Solange, I''m sure DenverAppraiser meant that he has dealers who are clients who would like him to grade diamonds, take a photo, run a Sarin, etc., of pieces they have in stock or are acquiring. This is completely unrelated to any appraisal for a customer buying FROM those dealers (Neil, please correct me if I misspoke anything).

This is not uncommon for appraisers: To do evaluations for dealers separately from consumers.

As for Whiteflash, we don''t call our letter of verification an ''appraisal.'' I often mention that this letter is included as a courtesy, not as a substitute for a full appraisal of the kind offered by notable appraisers: The letter includes the basics of weight, color, clarity & laser inscriptions as well as setting details and an approximate retail value. It is issued by a Houston area appraiser and suitable for insurance in many cases, which we hope will be helpful to our customers.

With our experts doing a pre-grade, the lab issuing the ''official'' grade and the verifying appraiser performing a further check we have done everything in our power to authenticate the purchase for our clients.

There is still great security in hiring an independent expert. As this thread has shown, you should shop for your appraiser just as you shop for a vendor. The range of services and reputability of different appraisers can vary. It always pays to do your homework.

John, I was agreeing with you. The verification letter I received with my ring was never referrred to as a substitute for an appraisal and I found it was a great asset to have this information.

I realized that it was not meant to substitute for an appraisal--that is the point I was trying to make--perhaps not clearly. This is only one an extra step Whiteflash takes which is in the customer''s best interests.

It is very helpful to get such a report with your ring because costly tests have been done. It either makes an appraisal less costly if you choose to go with the information provided and just have an appraiser verify it. Or if you do have a full appraisal, it gives you the assurance that the stone has been tested twice and has stood up to double scrutiny.

I never meant to imply that Whiteflash was doing what the other appraiser was doing--taking money from a vendor and then giving a "complimentary" appraisal.

This is entirely different from what Whiteflash does. Your letter of verification is in the customer''s best interest and not subject to misinterpretation or the appearance of a conflict of interest.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 12/16/2005 7:09:49 PM
Author: solange

John, I was agreeing with you. The verification letter I received with my ring was never referrred to as a substitute for an appraisal and I found it was a great asset to have this information.

I realized that it was not meant to substitute for an appraisal--that is the point I was trying to make--perhaps not clearly. This is only one an extra step Whiteflash takes which is in the customer's best interests.

It is very helpful to get such a report with your ring because costly tests have been done. It either makes an appraisal less costly if you choose to go with the information provided and just have an appraiser verify it. Or if you do have a full appraisal, it gives you the assurance that the stone has been tested twice and has stood up to double scrutiny.

I never meant to imply that Whiteflash was doing what the other appraiser was doing--taking money from a vendor and then giving a 'complimentary' appraisal.

This is entirely different from what Whiteflash does. Your letter of verification is in the customer's best interest and not subject to misinterpretation or the appearance of a conflict of interest.

Thank you Solange. My apologies, I only intended the first paragraph of my previous post for you (the portion regarding DenverAppraiser). I should have been more clear.

New readers may not be aware of our reasons for the verification, and that is why I explained it here. You have clarified perfectly from a consumer standpoint why we continue to make it a part of our services.

 

[RockDoc]

Hi John

Looks like at least the core participants Solange, Neil,John and Iand some others) are all on the same page and in agreement...

This calls for a party!

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Rockdoc


PS John - Godzilla said to say hi to you, and he likes the picture with the other Godzilla holding him in his paws!.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 12/16/2005 6:38:11 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Solange, I''m sure DenverAppraiser meant that he has dealers who are clients who would like him to grade diamonds, take a photo, run a Sarin, etc., of pieces they have in stock or are acquiring. This is completely unrelated to any appraisal for a customer buying FROM those dealers (Neil, please correct me if I misspoke anything).

This is not uncommon for appraisers: To do evaluations for dealers separately from consumers.

This is correct. I do work for dealers as clients but this service is not an appraisal and it''s completely unrelated to customers buying from those dealers. Just like for consumers, dealers sometimes want a second set of eyes to help them decide about whether to buy stones and not everyone can afford to buy the Sarin equipment. I do not do the style of 3rd party appraisals that Rockdoc is discussing, for exactly the same reasons that he doesn''t. It''s a clear conflict of interest.

The warranty is strictly an issue of providing advice for dealers. I don''t write them because I don''t sell anything.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 12/16/2005 7:24:06 PM
Author: RockDoc
Hi John

Looks like at least the core participants Solange, Neil,John and Iand some others) are all on the same page and in agreement...

This calls for a party!

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Rockdoc


PS John - Godzilla said to say hi to you, and he likes the picture with the other Godzilla holding him in his paws!. <G>

When and where does the party begin??


www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Like the GIA, AGS & EGL, I do impartial work for whoever hires me, trade or public alike

Members of the trade need quality gemological work just like everybody else. I will give them a comprehensive analysis of their stone along with my opinion of the Retail Replacement Value just like I would for anybody.

The work done and value stated is the same as I would do for anyone else. If they want to give this to the end consumer as an add-on, I would consider it an extra benefit for the consumer.

I (and the vast majority of the industry) believe the definition of an independent appraiser to be one who does not buy or sell, has no vested interested in the sale of the item, and who treats all with impartiality. To refuse to do appraisals for dealers strikes me as odd. They are consumers just like everyone else, in need of quality gemological information in order to make their buying and selling decisions. To discriminate against them by withholding services seems to be the exact opposite of being impartial. It smacks of bias, in my opinion.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 12/16/2005 10:29:48 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Like the GIA, AGS & EGL, I do impartial work for whoever hires me, trade or public alike

Members of the trade need quality gemological work just like everybody else. I will give them a comprehensive analysis of their stone along with my opinion of the Retail Replacement Value just like I would for anybody.

The work done and value stated is the same as I would do for anyone else. If they want to give this to the end consumer as an add-on, I would consider it an extra benefit for the consumer.

I (and the vast majority of the industry) believe the definition of an independent appraiser to be one who does not buy or sell, has no vested interested in the sale of the item, and who treats all with impartiality. To refuse to do appraisals for dealers strikes me as odd. They are consumers just like everyone else, in need of quality gemological information in order to make their buying and selling decisions. To discriminate against them by withholding services seems to be the exact opposite of being impartial. It smacks of bias, in my opinion.

Hi Richard....

I have to disagree with your position that not doing an appraisal for a dealer represents bias.

To clarify this, I think the consideration of the differences between a gemological analysis and an appraisal is the primary reason for what has apparently been misconstrued.

A gemological grading, verification or review report doesn''t have "legal" issues to address. An appraisal or valuation report has significant requrements. As I am sure you realize both GIA and AGS have statements on their reports that the inforamtion provided is not a guarantee, valuation or an appraisal, and distinctly says that before the consideration of purchase that a purchaser or consumer consult with a professional gemologist appraiser. The legal staff of both GIA and AGS have done this for a very apparent reason. A gemological report that is rendered to outline the identification, quality and grading parameters by which a seller can appropriately represent the grading and quality details of the stone for the purpose of selling it doesn''t have the same level of bias, that you refer to. The salient issue here is how the report rendered is to be used and if there is a relationship that would cause a normal person to question the independence of the party preparing the report.

A possible interesting piece of case law that you might want to review, is a Florida case between Neiman Marcus ( cited as Carter, Haley Hall in the FL court). In this case a diamond was graded as D- IF by GIA and later graded as E-IF by GIA. In court opinion the court specified that GIA didn''t have liability to the consumer, as the GIA report was used by the seller and that the liability was not against GIA by the consumer, but rather the seller. A sale is essentially a two party transaction, and a knowledgeable seller who uses the GIA bears liability if it is used in the decision to purchase by the consumer. GIA isn''t off the hook here, as they have a primary liability for any damages to the party that submitted the stone, and C C H has a viable action against their supplier or others ( down the chain of distribution ).

Again as a model for consideration, one also can look to the IRS regs, where an appraiser who has done work for a party in appraisal service cannot render an appraisal reportfor certain IRS valuations, if the relationship has been ongoing and continuous in nature. As an addition example, go back to the "investment gemstone era" where items were sold for which the sellers of the items to the investors provided reports overstating the values with the intent of creating tax benefits when the property was later valued for donation for even higher amounts at a later date.

If a gemological report is perpared for the purpose of qualitative reasons, it is very different from a report that is rendered by the sellers agent, that is used as a selling tool to influence the purchasing decision of a party who may have an opposing position.

My decision to not prepare items that will be used or mis-used as selling tools, by a seller is a personal decision, and one that is made by me to avoid my independence to be ever questioned.

It seems obvious to me that there is question when the appraisal or review of an item being sold to a consumer is paid for by the seller. Solange and Dani have expressed their concern.

By clearly stating that I don''t accept payment or APPRAISAL work ( more specifically to be used as a tool to influence the sale of their items) from dealers, lets the consumer know that there is clearly no influence in my reports made by any seller. Perhaps that is a bit harsh an position to take, but consumers that I do speak to value that position greatly.

I think that PURPOSE and the INTENT of the report is paramount in considering this.

I do respect the personal business decisions of other professionals, so I am not writing this as an attack or insult. I merely have my own level of providing reliance, to those who will rely on my independence, which I certainly have the right to do.

Rockdoc

 

[strmrdr]

I think I have to agree with rockdoc about doing work for dealers.
Im not worried about it with Richard S. but I know him pretty well and he will do right by his customers no matter what.

But:

If I had an appraisal done by someone advertising as an independant appraiser then found out that the appraiser was doing to lot of work for hire for the place I bought the ring and didnt disclose it then I would be less than happy.
I would very unhappy.

If the appraiser told me about it up front then I would have to decide if I knew enough about the appraiser to trust them and would likely in most cases move on.

That puts the appraiser in a bad position either way.

On the other hand I can see the point that a customer is a customer but I just dont think id be comfortable with it.

edit: While I know Neil less well than Richard S. Id be inclined to trust him also to do the right by the consumer in that situation.

 

[solange]

I think the major point here is that an independent appraisal for a purchaser should only involve two parties--the purchaser and the appraiser. There can be no third party involved. And the purchaser should not be led by the vendor to a particular appraiser, particularly if the vendor is paying for the appraisal. I would have little confidence in such an appraisal since there is the strong suspicion that the appraiser owes his allegiance,and perhaps part of his livelihood, to the vendor who sent you there and not to you, as the client. The purchaser should select their own appraiser and expect to pay for the services rendered if they want a truly objective appraiser. It is also very obvious from stories here that you have to shop very carefully for a reliable appraiser.

If you are paying for your own appraisal and are dealing with a reputable appraiser, there should be no concern that he is also examining and giving information and evaluations to vendors who want to check and make certain that what they can feel comfortable with the information they are providing to their clients. it would not bother me if the appraiser also does work for vendors--even if it happened to be the vendor I was buying from-- as long as thiis is not being used to influence the customer to make a purchase from a particular vendor. In fact, I would favor a vendor who has his merchandise checked by a reliable appraiser before purchasing or offering a stone for sale.

However, when a vendor sends you to a particular appraiser and pays for the appraisal,there is a third party involved. Who is the appraiser representing? If he does extensive business with a particular vendor who also sends him private clients, where would his loyalty lie? With the purchaser who may be a one shot deal, or the vendor who is giving him a lot of business. Even if the appraiser is not deceitful, I think he may very well give the best possible assessment of the stone because he has been engaged by the vendor and it might cost him future business from the vendor if he downgrades the stone or does not give it the most glowing endorsement, thus not being totally objective. This kind of "appraisal" would not be acceptable to me.

I have several items for which I need current reappraisals for insurance purposes and would like to be present for the appraisals. After reading of some of the experiences here, in addtion to my own, I am having serious thoughts about taking a trip to one of the highly regarded appraisers who responded here rather than taking a chance on going to someone unknown to me. Is it warm in Sarasota now, Richard, and when is your party?

 

[dani13]

Whew! This thread really took off since last time I checked in....

I dont know, reading everyone''s responses, I am somewhat concerned. Like I said, at the time, I did think that gettting the stone appraised by an appraiser paid for by the seller was odd. I then did just trust the vendor, AND I also trusted the appraiser. My FI never questioned them either. We totally went to a separate office, and the appraiser spent a lot of time with us and seemed legit. The appraisal was done well , IMO -but what do we know? I just wanted to make sure we got what we paid for, not that I "got a good deal." That is not the issue here, at least for me.

It makes me a little nervous now, but what to do? In hindsight, I should have seeked out an appraiser of my choice to verify the stone....

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 12/17/2005 9:08:51 AM
Author: solange

I have several items for which I need current reappraisals for insurance purposes and would like to be present for the appraisals. After reading of some of the experiences here, in addtion to my own, I am having serious thoughts about taking a trip to one of the highly regarded appraisers who responded here rather than taking a chance on going to someone unknown to me. Is it warm in Sarasota now, Richard, and when is your party?

It''s warm and gorgeous down here in Paradise, Solange, and there''s always a party.

Let me know when you''re coming and I''ll kick all the dealers out of the place.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I'm just not comfortable eliminating dealers from my clientele. Most of these guys are sincere businessmen wanting to avoid making mistakes and give their clients the best possible service they can. They come to me not because they want to "pull the wool" over their client's eyes, but for the exact opposite reason. They want to give their client's the advantage of complete disclosure of the characteristics and value of their merchandise.

I have the benefit of examining a tremendous amount of gemstones and jewelry that I would never see if I did only business for consumers. Dealers come to me with the latest gemstone finds, jewelry techniques and knowledge. Many of these individuals are specialists in their fields, having spent a lifetime acquiring knowledge. They share that knowledge with me readily, and enjoy submitting their latest acquisitions for examination. This makes me a better appraiser.

An appraiser who does business only for private individuals is like a lone wolf (in my opinion), operating outside of any industry checks and balances. He rarely receives any feedback on his quality and valuation decisions, because the consumer is not knowledgeable enough to question his findings and decisions. Knowledgeable dealers, on the other hand, will quickly point out if you have fallen behind on the latest available information and pricing.

You really have to know what you're doing to consistently do dealer work. With privates, you can make mistakes all day long and not be "caught" at it. With dealers, you're going to get challenged quickly if you've fallen behind on the latest and are remiss in your findings. These challenges serve to keep you continuously on top of what is going on in the market.

I can understand completely consumers wanting to be sure of unbiasedness and impartiality. If someone makes known to me they have a gemstone from a vendor that I regularly do work for, I point it out immediately. More often than not though, the client doesn't want to tell you where they got the stone from, so it's a moot point anyway.

Let me ask this question of consumers. If you were going to undergo a difficult surgery, wouldn't you derive a certain level of comfort from the fact that many knowledgeable doctors went to your surgeon for their operations?

As far as a dealer wanting to pay for an appraisal for a client looking at their stone, I have no problem with it. It doesn't happen that often, but when it does I inform the customer that I do the same work and come to the same conclusions regardless who pays me. My integrity is not for sale.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/17/2005 1:28:19 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
My integrity is not for sale.

I dont think there is anyone here that says it is.
but can that be said of all appraisers?
Honestly I dont care if you were working for the trade 99% of the time as long as your working for me when I hire you.
But I dont have that level of trust in all appraisers so I have to let my statements stand.
Is that a double standard... yep :}
Ok so now all the people who dont like me can say in one case I have a double standard

 

[strmrdr]

This thread has a lot of twists and turns but we still havent heard from the appraiser mentioned in the original post.

newlyengaged11, have you heard anything from him?

 

[newlyengaged11]

Hi everyone,

Just to keep you up to date on the progress (or lack thereof) on my situation:

I emailed the appraiser last Sunday. He left me a voicemail Monday, which I received in the evening (after business hours). I emailed him and told him I received his voicemail, but asked him to reply to me by email because it would be much easier for me to communicate that way this week. And I haven''t heard anything since! The lack of response is disappointing - I would like to hear his side of the story, and I think that I should be refunded what I paid for the appraisal if he doesn''t have a really good explanation for all the issues I brought up.

I may try him again next week, when I have more time, but I''m hoping he will get back to me sooner than that on his own. I hate to feel like I have to track him down.

Hope everyone is doing well!

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 12/17/2005 4:47:14 PM
Author: newlyengaged11
Hi everyone,

Just to keep you up to date on the progress (or lack thereof) on my situation:

I emailed the appraiser last Sunday. He left me a voicemail Monday, which I received in the evening (after business hours). I emailed him and told him I received his voicemail, but asked him to reply to me by email because it would be much easier for me to communicate that way this week. And I haven''t heard anything since! The lack of response is disappointing - I would like to hear his side of the story, and I think that I should be refunded what I paid for the appraisal if he doesn''t have a really good explanation for all the issues I brought up.

I may try him again next week, when I have more time, but I''m hoping he will get back to me sooner than that on his own. I hate to feel like I have to track him down.

Hope everyone is doing well!

Hi Newly

At least he did respons to your email. This is probably a very busy week for everyone in the trade, and also for those that realized this is the last shopping weekend til xmas, well sort of as there is friday and saturday coming up, but think a lot of people woke up to the realization that xmas is only a week away.

So he could be very tied up with other things. He SHOULD have responsded sooner but, probably best to give him the benefit of the doubt til after the New Year.

Phone call to his office might be a better way to get a response from him. He could be not feeliing well too - I''ve heard a loit of people have a virus that is going around.

Of couse if he doesn''t respond by then, it probably is called for to call out your fangs.

Rockdoc

 

[newenglandgemlab]

Very well said Richard! The wealth of information made available to appraisers via manufacturers/dealers can be very limited. My trade accts give me an edge when I need info.....market info, etc. Cindy