friends without kids

[Sha]

Wow - this thread has been really thought-provoking. Jas and others - thanks for sharing your stories. I think people can be so quick to judge mothers sometimes, without knowing at thing about them. I know not every mother is like the one in the story Jas shared, but perhaps we should give mothers the benefit of the doubt more- a commiserating smile or comment, or even an offer of help -instead of being so quick to tear them down.

 

[Lanie]

I'm wondering if the OP's friend is having serious problems getting pregnant.

I've been on the receiving end of some similar comments and some deliberately rude comments from a girl who I happen to know is TTC and in the middle of fertility investigations - she has PCOS and hasn't had a cycle in over a year - and things are not looking good.

Last time I saw her she spent a good 20 minutes telling me how she'd never want kids and generally how much she loathed them. She doesn't know that I know about the fertility issues.


I'm sorry...WHAT?!? This could be the case, but this is just like the other's comment about how the friend must be jealous. Not necessarily! I would never in a million years think that someone made a comment like that bc they were having fertility issues!!!!!! I agree with the countless others that this was nothing more than just a comment that was taken the wrong way. Sorry...maybe I'm being harsh on you Pandora, but this just made me want to lurch out at the computer!

 

[Laila619]

I'm wondering if the OP's friend is having serious problems getting pregnant.

Ahh, the old "she's just jealous" thing. Why does it always have to be that? What if she genuinely finds the OP's kids exhausting and/or ill-behaved? What if it has absolutely nothing to do with fertility issues?

<cross post with Lanie!>

 

[Lanie]

Thank you and high five Laila!

 

[Miss Sparkly]

I had a "friend" (our husbands are friends) tell me that my kids make her grateful she doesn't have any. Granted my kids were being a handful (they had been at a festival all day in the sun with no nap)....but would this offend you? What would you have said. I found it strange since the last time we hung out she was telling me how every time she watched "Baby Story" and the like she feels her clock tickin'. Her husband also told my husband that she kept broaching the topic (having kids) with him....but he didn't feel he was ready. What's your opinion?

Made sense to me that she would be jealous of you having kids - but then maybe I just don't get it. I am in the group that has never enjoyed kids and will never have them. I would never say something so rude to another person though. If anything, I'd feel bad that you had to put up with kids being difficult and admire the fact that you can do something that I know I never could! Parents are amazing and I'll never understand how they do it

 

[steph72276]

Not to speak for Pandora, but it sounded like she was just giving a guess as to possible reasons this person would have made such a rude remark--most of the time people don't give such strong responses to things they don't care about.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think most people who say they don't like children really are more annoyed at the oblivious parents who refuse to discipline. I don't find kids acting out in public charming or cute or just doing what kids do. I find them annoying. Most parents seem so oblivious and think their kid being a whiny brat or crawling under another woman's dressing room door is adorable or funny. It's not. I really hope I am not that parent.

I do think it is important to remember that people have different ideas about what is correct or right behaviour for kids. Some believe they should be seen and not heard, others might think it is good for kids to explore and be sociable! For the former, lots of things are acting out that the latter would consider natural child social behaviour. And both types of parents think the other one is out-to-lunch

I fall into that latter category and like to let Hunter explore and interact with people -- since he is after all a person too -- but I always keeping about 2 feet behind him to intervene if he crosses a line.

But when is that line crossed? It is so hard to judge sometimes. I try to size people up and determine if they are the type who wants a good distance between themself and my son, or whether they would enjoy interacting with him. But I am not always right! We were on the plane, and he was standing on our seat and "talking" to the people in the seat behind us, flirting and smiling and doing peekaboo. One person loved it and was smiling and interacting, the other looked like he was being forced to eat dog poop.

Is my kid at fault for trying to interact with Mr. dog-poop-face? Or does Mr dog-poop-face have bad social skills for not wanting to take 10 seconds to interact with another human being? If I had struck up a conversation and he gave me that look, would I have been the horrid rude person or would he?

And sometimes my kid has tried to crawl under dressing stalls and gotten further than the occupant might have liked before I pulled him out, and yes he has walked up to stranger and touched them to say hello! All this and more.

I know some people look at me like I am a bad parent because my kid wanted to say hello, or touched their arm, or their newspaper.

Well, I feel sad for them that they were unwilling to interact with a child for 15 seconds of their day.

 

[junebug17]

I had a "friend" (our husbands are friends) tell me that my kids make her grateful she doesn't have any. Granted my kids were being a handful (they had been at a festival all day in the sun with no nap)....but would this offend you? What would you have said. I found it strange since the last time we hung out she was telling me how every time she watched "Baby Story" and the like she feels her clock tickin'. Her husband also told my husband that she kept broaching the topic (having kids) with him....but he didn't feel he was ready. What's your opinion?

Made sense to me that she would be jealous of you having kids - but then maybe I just don't get it. I am in the group that has never enjoyed kids and will never have them. I would never say something so rude to another person though. If anything, I'd feel bad that you had to put up with kids being difficult and admire the fact that you can do something that I know I never could! Parents are amazing and I'll never understand how they do it

Sparkly Blonde, I really liked your post. A lot. Parenting can be very difficult, sometimes it's hard to figure out how to handle the situations that can arise with children. In my heart I feel that the majority of parents genuinely do the best they can. I am very impressed by your kindness and compassion. Just wanted to let you know that!

ETA: And I think it's really sweet of you to say such nice things about parents. As I parent, I thank you!

 

[softly softly]

Just wanted to chime in to add my applause to Jas. I can really appreciate what your kindness must have meant to that woman. My husband works away from home and is regularly gone for more than a week at a time, and as hard as I try to be organised I find it impossible to avoid having to take my kids to the supermarket. While I can't say I've ever been as despairing as the lady you encountered, I have felt that sinking feeling of dread at the knowledge I am in desperate need of an essential item while also in possession of two tired and unwilling children. And I also know how overwhelming being solely responsible for the care of small children can sometimes make even the most mundane of tasks seem.

ETA - just read Dreamer's post about recognising when your kids have crossed the line and just wanted to add that they are sometimes capable of behaviour you simply could not have accounted for prior to witnessing it. One of the most mortifying experiences of my life occurred when I took my then 2 year old daughter into a public toilet and she proceeded to gleefully poke her head under the nearest stall. I made sure she never did it again, but she really caught me by surprise that day.

 

[Pandora II]

I'm wondering if the OP's friend is having serious problems getting pregnant.

I've been on the receiving end of some similar comments and some deliberately rude comments from a girl who I happen to know is TTC and in the middle of fertility investigations - she has PCOS and hasn't had a cycle in over a year - and things are not looking good.

Last time I saw her she spent a good 20 minutes telling me how she'd never want kids and generally how much she loathed them. She doesn't know that I know about the fertility issues.


I'm sorry...WHAT?!? This could be the case, but this is just like the other's comment about how the friend must be jealous. Not necessarily! I would never in a million years think that someone made a comment like that bc they were having fertility issues!!!!!! I agree with the countless others that this was nothing more than just a comment that was taken the wrong way. Sorry...maybe I'm being harsh on you Pandora, but this just made me want to lurch out at the computer!

In this case I know for absolutely certain. The girl is DH's step-sister and has a history of such comments... her response to our announcing our engagement a few years ago wasn't 'congratulations', it was 'I don't know why anyone wants to get married, is a load of crap and you'll just end up divorced anyway' (having met me the day before). She got married herself last year...

Husband is desperate for kids and makes no secret of it, her sister got preggo within 5 weeks of meeting her SO, I got pregnant within 6 weeks of our wedding and SIL got pregnant the night she got engaged - so she's a bit surrounded by babies and people who get KU effortlessly.

FIL has had long conversations with me about the situation and how she's dealing with it emotionally - I think that maybe insisting she doesn't like kids at times is a way of dealing with her worries (she wouldn't be able to adopt). It means I cut her slack on the comments rather than feeling attacked.

I think in the OP's case it probably was a case of foot in mouth, but it could be deeper than that. Oh, and I never assume that because people say they don't like something they are jealous... I think expensive cars are a waste of money and I'm not at all jealous of my friend's Porsche (think of the bling... sigh)

 

[Mara]

re the jealousy...unfortunately a lot of times when women are catty to one another it IS because of some type of jealousy... or envy maybe is a better word. i don't think it's totally ridiculous to say that one of the reasons POTENTIALLY for this woman's bad attitude esp given her friend knowing that she has told her hub she wants kids and he is not ready yet...could be that she wants a baby more badly than anyone knows. there are a lot of potential reasons here for this woman's attitude/comments.

many times it seems like people 'take things out' on those they love thinking that they will not leave or be as upset as if someone treated someone like a stranger badly. it's unfortunate really but i've seen it happen.

 

[hmr_mama]

Sorry for the slow response...computer has been at the Dr.

To clear a few things up:
I am NOT one of those parents that believes my children are perfect angels. We live in a univeristy town and I tell my husband that my Walmart trips are birth control for the college crowd.

I was never the kid type--until I met my husband...and then I wanted nothing more than to be his Baby Mama.

My kids are pretty darn well behaved...they were not acting atrocious. The incident that brought out the comment was: my kids were chasing another child around the house and they were all squealing. I asked my daughter (almost 4) to go outside if she wanted to use an "outside voice" and she declined. I put her in time-out (in the back bedroom) and she started crying. My son (20 months) started crying (while I was in the back bedroom) because he heard his sister crying and I ran back to the living room to try to console him. My kids were tired. Period. If she wanted to leave constructive criticism....she could have yelled out the door to my husband...to tell him I needed some help.

By posting this I really wanted some various viewpoints...and boy did I get them. I did not expect everyone to side with me....like someone said. Sometimes anger clouds me a little...and this was a good place to have my eyes opened a little bit. So thanks everyone!

(I don't mean for this one to sting....but it might) Having said the above....I want to remind the kidless of one thing. We have been where you are....you have never been where we are. Walk a mile in my shoes before you condemn....or smile politely and go home and pet your cat/dog/hamster. There is a reason having children is polarizing. Children (especially in the early years) are all consuming. "Good parents"--the ones that bring snacks and are on the PTA--barely have "couple time"--and a babysitter for a dinner with friends that don't like children....really?!? I am pretty new to the parenting thing--but I can see why parents are at the park and childless adults are at the dog park. We need to treat people with respect--whatever their choice.

I don't remember who it was...but someone said something about all of us wanting to think that we're the ones doing it right...that we're the ones who have it all figured out. I do think that's a big part of it.

I am responsible for my children. But, like Dreamer said, my children are their own people. I will show them the path.....over and over again (and over and over and over in my son's case)....but they will be responsible for sticking with it. I laugh at the people that say bad children come from bad parents. To me that's like saying atheists come from atheists or engineers come from engineers. Do you fail when your child fails...do you succeed when they succeed? Discipline.....follow through....do the best you can. But don't count every failure of their's as a failure of yours.

I am grateful for the "bigger picture"....the story about the dad and boy on the train....and the mom at the grocery store....
This crap shouldn't even get to me.....my family and I are alive and well....living in a great country with great opportunity...

Thanks again everyone! Loved reading your viewpoints....every last one of them!

 

[junebug17]

Sorry for the slow response...computer has been at the Dr.

To clear a few things up:
I am NOT one of those parents that believes my children are perfect angels. We live in a univeristy town and I tell my husband that my Walmart trips are birth control for the college crowd.

I was never the kid type--until I met my husband...and then I wanted nothing more than to be his Baby Mama.

My kids are pretty darn well behaved...they were not acting atrocious. The incident that brought out the comment was: my kids were chasing another child around the house and they were all squealing. I asked my daughter (almost 4) to go outside if she wanted to use an "outside voice" and she declined. I put her in time-out (in the back bedroom) and she started crying. My son (20 months) started crying (while I was in the back bedroom) because he heard his sister crying and I ran back to the living room to try to console him. My kids were tired. Period. If she wanted to leave constructive criticism....she could have yelled out the door to my husband...to tell him I needed some help.

By posting this I really wanted some various viewpoints...and boy did I get them. I did not expect everyone to side with me....like someone said. Sometimes anger clouds me a little...and this was a good place to have my eyes opened a little bit. So thanks everyone!

(I don't mean for this one to sting....but it might) Having said the above....I want to remind the kidless of one thing. We have been where you are....you have never been where we are. Walk a mile in my shoes before you condemn....or smile politely and go home and pet your cat/dog/hamster. There is a reason having children is polarizing. Children (especially in the early years) are all consuming. "Good parents"--the ones that bring snacks and are on the PTA--barely have "couple time"--and a babysitter for a dinner with friends that don't like children....really?!? I am pretty new to the parenting thing--but I can see why parents are at the park and childless adults are at the dog park. We need to treat people with respect--whatever their choice.

I don't remember who it was...but someone said something about all of us wanting to think that we're the ones doing it right...that we're the ones who have it all figured out. I do think that's a big part of it.

I am responsible for my children. But, like Dreamer said, my children are their own people. I will show them the path.....over and over again (and over and over and over in my son's case)....but they will be responsible for sticking with it. I laugh at the people that say bad children come from bad parents. To me that's like saying atheists come from atheists or engineers come from engineers. Do you fail when your child fails...do you succeed when they succeed? Discipline.....follow through....do the best you can. But don't count every failure of their's as a failure of yours.

I am grateful for the "bigger picture"....the story about the dad and boy on the train....and the mom at the grocery store....
This crap shouldn't even get to me.....my family and I are alive and well....living in a great country with great opportunity...

Thanks again everyone! Loved reading your viewpoints....every last one of them!

Excellent post hmr mama. I agree with your sentiments and comments. And I appreciate and admire your graciousness.

 

[Karl_K]

I think most people who say they don't like children really are more annoyed at the oblivious parents who refuse to discipline. I don't find kids acting out in public charming or cute or just doing what kids do. I find them annoying. Most parents seem so oblivious and think their kid being a whiny brat or crawling under another woman's dressing room door is adorable or funny. It's not. I really hope I am not that parent.

I do think it is important to remember that people have different ideas about what is correct or right behaviour for kids. Some believe they should be seen and not heard, others might think it is good for kids to explore and be sociable! For the former, lots of things are acting out that the latter would consider natural child social behaviour. And both types of parents think the other one is out-to-lunch

I fall into that latter category and like to let Hunter explore and interact with people -- since he is after all a person too -- but I always keeping about 2 feet behind him to intervene if he crosses a line.

But when is that line crossed? It is so hard to judge sometimes. I try to size people up and determine if they are the type who wants a good distance between themself and my son, or whether they would enjoy interacting with him. But I am not always right! We were on the plane, and he was standing on our seat and "talking" to the people in the seat behind us, flirting and smiling and doing peekaboo. One person loved it and was smiling and interacting, the other looked like he was being forced to eat dog poop.

Is my kid at fault for trying to interact with Mr. dog-poop-face? Or does Mr dog-poop-face have bad social skills for not wanting to take 10 seconds to interact with another human being? If I had struck up a conversation and he gave me that look, would I have been the horrid rude person or would he?

And sometimes my kid has tried to crawl under dressing stalls and gotten further than the occupant might have liked before I pulled him out, and yes he has walked up to stranger and touched them to say hello! All this and more.

I know some people look at me like I am a bad parent because my kid wanted to say hello, or touched their arm, or their newspaper.

Well, I feel sad for them that they were unwilling to interact with a child for 15 seconds of their day.

It is interesting that you mention this for some unknown reason little kids like to come up to me and talk.
A lot of people run up and say sorry he/she is bugging you.
I really don't mind so never know what to say other than no problem.
Others they just stand there, and after talking to the kid for a sec I look at them and smile and say cute kid and move on.

They are other kids that do make me think I'm glad I don't have kids but saying so is rather rude.
There are a few people I am no longer friends with because I have no desire to be around their misbehaving kids that they do nothing about.

 

[kelpie]

I'm surprised my comment caused such an incendiary reaction. I'm not a child torturing villain from a Roald Dahl novel. I didn't have much discipline growing up and I was certainly a very obnoxious ADHD kid. Reflecting on this had led me to be very judgmental about parents not providing kids the affection and structure they need to become well adjusted or putting them in situations that are stressful for the child and expect them to cope by crying.

When I said "No one thinks your kids are as adorable a you do" I meant it in an honest but not mean way. We are supposed to feel that...I have far more patience and compassion for my nieces than I do for stranger's kids. I do like most children and they really like me since I am always willing to play with them.

I truly feel that if people have kids that are prone to tantrums/outbursts/hitting/shrieking than it is incredibly rude of the parents to subject them on the public when we are eating/flying/seeing a movie/at a museum. Obviously that really strikes a nerve with me especially when the parent is either making no effort or just making it worse by yanking their arm, threatening to whup them, ect. I know kids get tired and infants can be inconsolable...those are really not things I see as behavior issues though I won't lie and say it doesn't grate my nerves to be seated next to a crying baby. I have infinite appreciation for those parents will take the child outside until they can compose themselves. Sometimes too much stimulation just overwhelms them so it is not just for the benefit of the people who have to hear them.

If a kid is prone to having meltdowns, do all involved a favor and leave them with a sitter next time you do an activity in a confined space with strangers or limit your outings to chuck-e-cheese.

 

[Nashville]

I'm surprised my comment caused such an incendiary reaction. I'm not a child torturing villain from a Roald Dahl novel. I didn't have much discipline growing up and I was certainly a very obnoxious ADHD kid. Reflecting on this had led me to be very judgmental about parents not providing kids the affection and structure they need to become well adjusted or putting them in situations that are stressful for the child and expect them to cope by crying.

When I said "No one thinks your kids are as adorable a you do" I meant it in an honest but not mean way. We are supposed to feel that...I have far more patience and compassion for my nieces than I do for stranger's kids. I do like most children and they really like me since I am always willing to play with them.

I truly feel that if people have kids that are prone to tantrums/outbursts/hitting/shrieking than it is incredibly rude of the parents to subject them on the public when we are eating/flying/seeing a movie/at a museum. Obviously that really strikes a nerve with me especially when the parent is either making no effort or just making it worse by yanking their arm, threatening to whup them, ect. I know kids get tired and infants can be inconsolable...those are really not things I see as behavior issues though I won't lie and say it doesn't grate my nerves to be seated next to a crying baby. I have infinite appreciation for those parents will take the child outside until they can compose themselves. Sometimes too much stimulation just overwhelms them so it is not just for the benefit of the people who have to hear them.

If a kid is prone to having meltdowns, do all involved a favor and leave them with a sitter next time you do an activity in a confined space with strangers or limit your outings to chuck-e-cheese.

I think you're not acknowledging what people had such a strong reaction about, which was saying "I loathe children" within earshot of parents.

What is that supposed to accomplish? "Sorry my kid is having a meltdown, because you 'loathe' them, I'm going to go drop them off at an orphanage, thanks for helping me see the light!" Crying/misbehaving kids get on most people's nerves at some point, but that's life. Life is having to share space in less than ideal situations sometimes. If your way to cope with it is to express how much you loathe children to parents, that reflects more about you than it does about the worst behaved child.

And no, I will not limit my outings to Chuck-E-Cheese, thank you very much. Is it acceptable for me to tell you to never leave the house because you can't stand the occasional misbehaving child? Why does everyone think this is how it should be for parents, and WHERE are all these eternally available sitters at? Am I in mommy jail now because my child *might* cry within earshot of someone? You're right, from now on if my kid is prone to meltdowns (she's not thankfully) I will stay in the house, despite the fact that my life needs to go on just as yours does. Despite that I might need to travel somewhere to see family, or buy groceries, or see a friend.

 

[doodle]

To the OP, I would've assumed her comment was meant to be funny more than offensive. If she thought your children were the spawn of Satan, I doubt she would've gone on an outing with them present in the first place. I have a very sarcastic sense of humor, and I've made jokes like this to friends a number of times. Actually, my friend's wife and I have a running joke now because if her son gets too rowdy when she's trying to get him to go to sleep, I've made jokes before about slipping him a roofie or some whiskey. Sure, she could get all defensive and be sorely put out that I suggested drugging her child, but obviously, I'm kidding, and if I weren't, why would I have spent the last several hours sitting on the floor building lego towers with her 2 year old? I think my perspective is about as middle of the road on this as you can get--I haven't personally birthed a child of my own, but I have an 11 year old stepson, so I understand how exhausting parenting can be, and I understand that sometimes, despite your noblest attempts, the little angel is going to act like Linda Blair. Perhaps because it IS such hard work, parents are prone to taking things a little too personally when no offense was meant. As for the "I loathe children" comment, ya know what? Flame me for it, but I've been there before, and recently. DH, Stepson, and I visited the Met in NYC recently, and because I had an injured ankle, I was in a wheelchair for the visit. This little girl, maybe five or so, was climbing on a several thousand year old Egyptian statue, and a museum employee walked over and asked the parent to get the child down. In the process of doing so, the little girl turned, took off running, and basically sat ON my injured foot. When you have a wave of pain shoot through your body severe enough to make your gag reflex kick in, I can tell you from experience that you don't really care if Dad's feelings are hurt because you told him you hate his child and recommend a leash. Did I wish harm upon his child? No. Did I wish she had never existed? Again. no. Do I wish she were behaving rather than sitting upon an ankle that was the size of a Yorkshire Terrier? YES. Sometimes, adults get crabby, tired, or whatever, and they have temper tantrums, too.

 

[Mara]

Actually...I am a Mom and if my kid was 'prone to having meltdowns'...and I mean meltdowns as in inconsolable screaming, crying and tantrum throwing wailing and flailing on the ground...oh heck yeah I would limit my outings, and I'd probably end up living in McDonalds and ChuckECheese.

I fully remember what it was like to be a childless person who disliked having my expensive dinner trod upon by random kids streaking up and down the restaurant aisles or trying to climb over me while I ate. I would still feel that way. I don't foresee us taking our kid to anywhere non-kid-appropriate for a long time. I think it's MY responsibility to make sure my kid isn't disrupting other peoples lives (and I don't mean just walking up to them and saying hi) because having a child was MY choice and I try to be respectful of that for everyone else NOT involved with my life and my child's life, which is like 99.999999% of the people out there.

And I am fully aware no one thinks my kid is as cute as I do. And I am also fully aware that there will be MANY times when I won't think he's cute at all.

 

[decodelighted]

I had a "friend" (our husbands are friends) tell me that my kids make her grateful she doesn't have any. What's your opinion?

Okay ... I agree with most folks that this is a seemingly *rude* comment. But I immediately took it in a different way than you have taken it -- less personally. I'll explain. Are your kids perhaps the only kids she's around a lot? Maybe being around ANY kids makes her grateful she doesn't have any of her own. (I sort of feel that way myself! -- Not because kids are well-behaved or poorly-behaved -- because they are KIDS and all kids do kid-like stuff that challenges my tolerances.) MAYBE ... and this is being generous on my part ... MAYBE she was speaking more generally & not really trying to imply that your kids were so awful or unusually irritating etc -- but that they were regular, old kids & exposure to such confirms her feeling that being around that/responsible for their care is not the best choice for her life/lifestyle/tolerances/temperment.

I just returned from a family vacation where I, a childless mid-forties work-at-home loner/recluse, was suddenly surrounded with six screaming, running, jumping, messy, but wholly adorable kids. But I'm not used to having my feet constantly stamped on. Or tripped over. Or being crawled up. Or drooled on. Or being trapped in a car with caterwailing that would raise the dead. It wasn't that the kids were *bad*. Or that their parents are *bad*. Shiz happens. But it is an utter shock to the system of those who AREN'T used to it and haven't been privy to all those other moments that make that shiz WORTH it.

 

[doodle]

Deco, I love you so much right now, I'M tempted to drool on you. I can't tell you how often people hear my take on kids and go, "But you ARE a parent!" Yeah, and I didn't become one until he was 8, so I missed all the cute baby years where you get to store up those moments that make the development of sarcasm and attitude bearable. For those of you with really young children, do yourself a favor the next time your kid is adorable and try that much harder to memorize that moment--you'll need it when the kid's in the "I don't have to brush my hair ever again because I've decided to be a rebel, and yes, that dried cheetoh IS in fact part of my ensemble and there's nothing you can do about it" phase.

 

[steph72276]

Ditto Mara 100%. I leave a place the minute one of mine either acts up or gets fussy and cries...I have told my husband to pay the check and get our food to go and I've left a full cart at Target when my son had a meltdown. Other paying people at a restaurant shouldn't be subjected to my children if they are being disruptive. Then again, we try to only go to pretty loud, kid friendly places in the first place. We haven't seen the inside of a really nice restaurant in exactly 6 months since we had a date on Valentine's Day. I do wish people would be more respectful and take their children out of places when they are acting up.

Deco, I love your perspective. It is true that if you haven't been around small children much, they can be a shock to the system!

 

[Laila619]

Actually...I am a Mom and if my kid was 'prone to having meltdowns'...and I mean meltdowns as in inconsolable screaming, crying and tantrum throwing wailing and flailing on the ground...oh heck yeah I would limit my outings, and I'd probably end up living in McDonalds and ChuckECheese.

I fully remember what it was like to be a childless person who disliked having my expensive dinner trod upon by random kids streaking up and down the restaurant aisles or trying to climb over me while I ate. I would still feel that way. I don't foresee us taking our kid to anywhere non-kid-appropriate for a long time. I think it's MY responsibility to make sure my kid isn't disrupting other peoples lives (and I don't mean just walking up to them and saying hi) because having a child was MY choice and I try to be respectful of that for everyone else NOT involved with my life and my child's life, which is like 99.999999% of the people out there.

And I am fully aware no one thinks my kid is as cute as I do. And I am also fully aware that there will be MANY times when I won't think he's cute at all.

Bravo! Wish more parents were like this.

 

[steph72276]

Laila, I think many many parents do share Mara's sentiments, but the kids that are running around like hellions are the ones that get noticed, whereas the "good" kids sink into the background. While there are lots of parents that let their children do whatever they want, there are also lots of good parents that discipline their children and teach them manners.

eta: A lot of it has to do with perception...for example, when you see the kid having a temper tantrum in the middle of the aisle at Target, it's easy to say "ugh, kids these days are so spoiled", but did you also then notice the 25 other kids in the store walking around nicely with their parents not causing trouble? Or out to eat when a kid is climbing all over the floor and the parents aren't doing anything about it, it's easy to say parents just let their kids do what they want these days, but did you also notice the 10 other kids sitting down nicely and eating their meals without causing any trouble? It's like the school scenario where the troublemakers get the attention from the teacher, while the ones doing what they're supposed to be doing sink into the background.

 

[chemgirl]

I'm surprised my comment caused such an incendiary reaction. I'm not a child torturing villain from a Roald Dahl novel. I didn't have much discipline growing up and I was certainly a very obnoxious ADHD kid. Reflecting on this had led me to be very judgmental about parents not providing kids the affection and structure they need to become well adjusted or putting them in situations that are stressful for the child and expect them to cope by crying.

When I said "No one thinks your kids are as adorable a you do" I meant it in an honest but not mean way. We are supposed to feel that...I have far more patience and compassion for my nieces than I do for stranger's kids. I do like most children and they really like me since I am always willing to play with them.

I truly feel that if people have kids that are prone to tantrums/outbursts/hitting/shrieking than it is incredibly rude of the parents to subject them on the public when we are eating/flying/seeing a movie/at a museum. Obviously that really strikes a nerve with me especially when the parent is either making no effort or just making it worse by yanking their arm, threatening to whup them, ect. I know kids get tired and infants can be inconsolable...those are really not things I see as behavior issues though I won't lie and say it doesn't grate my nerves to be seated next to a crying baby. I have infinite appreciation for those parents will take the child outside until they can compose themselves. Sometimes too much stimulation just overwhelms them so it is not just for the benefit of the people who have to hear them.

If a kid is prone to having meltdowns, do all involved a favor and leave them with a sitter next time you do an activity in a confined space with strangers or limit your outings to chuck-e-cheese.

I completely agree.

I don't have kids so I know my opinion on this doesn't mean much, but I strongly believe that when I am a parent I will follow the above advice.

My childhood was very structured, and while my sister and I did act out in public, my mom took steps to mitigate the situation. We always had a clear idea of what was expected of us and what the consequences would be for misbehaving. My mom also made an effort to take us to kid friendly restaurants and weekend matinee's that would be full of kids anyway. If we were misbehaving, we were removed from the situation ASAP. I don't understand why more parents don't just remove their kids if they are acting up. Even just taking them outside for a few minutes so they can calm down.

I really don't agree with parents taking their kids along to things they want to do, but that are not exactly kid appropriate. I'm planning a trip to Las Vegas and was shocked at the number of people asking a travel forum about whether you could have strollers in casinos. This is clearly not appropriate (smoke filled room with loud noises) and not fair to the child. I do think people who do this are "bad parents" and trust me, I will give them evil looks.

To me, the "good" verses "bad" parent argument has little to do with the child's behavior and everything to do with what the parents do to handle it.

 

[fieryred33143]

If a person is truly oblivious that their child's behavior is disruptive then I can almost guarantee that person was self-centered *before* having children. Most people are smart enough to understand that a loud child at a park is acceptable, but not so much at a 5 star restaurant. I have a friend who's son is not only mischievous but is also extremely spoiled and doest listen to his parents. When we go out, he's always causing trouble and she laughs it off. But you know what? Before she had children she thought the world revolved around her and was extremely stubborn.

I will never be one of those parents who isn't aware that my screaming child is disrupting other people because I have always been aware of my surroundings.

In the OP case, yes her children were crying but they were doing so in their own home and mom was not ignoring their behavior. The comment was rude.

Kelpie-the only comment you made that people questioned was purposely telling parents you hate children.

 

[Mara]

I also agree with the other ladies that I think there are a lot of well-behaved children out and about. Unfortunately (or fortunately?), those are the kids who are 'seen but not heard' and so they do fade into the background--while the children who don't listen to parents, act out in restaurants or stores, or throw full on tantrums are the ones who people tend to remember.

When we were sans-kiddo... we had MANY a bad experience out at a restaurant with children running amok and parents who were more busy enjoying themselves than paying attention to anything around them. So many of those are seared into my brain...maybe it'll make us better parents in the long run so THANKS, random oblivious strangers.

 

[Nashville]

I should add, I'm in NO way saying it's acceptable to sit back and do nothing if your kids are wreaking havoc, especially in a restaurant or museum. I can't tell you how many times I've had to request a to-go box in the middle of a restaurant outing, or taken her outside in the stroller to avoid disturbing other diners. I'd rather leave on a good note (first signs of whining) than sit at a table and enjoy a meal while other diners are miserable. It's unfair and I have no issue with that.

I think now that I have children of my own, I sympathize with all the circumstances that may go into a "meltdown" and am more aware of not being quick to get angry/judge. Of course in a restaurant, you aren't there on business (and if you were, don't bring your child). But I have experienced the feeling of a meltdown beginning while I'm in line waiting to pay for groceries, and I've been stuck without a sitter some days when things need to get done and she's sick/teething. It's a helpless feeling, rare but sometimes unavoidable. It's true, you can have the best behaved child in the world 99% of the time, but the other 1% is met with glares, sighs and general hostility.

I agree, do what you can to make a graceful exit when your child is having an off day and try to avoid making plans if you anticipate a meltdown. I think with a little tact and compassion from others everyone can get along fine, without someone telling me they loathe children and without me subjecting others to screaming in the middle of a fancy restaurant. For every parent you see not doing anything to discipline their child, there is another parent being ignored and stepped over while they attempt to hold their baby and pick up the contents of a spilled diaper bag. It's a minefield out there!

 

[Arkteia]

I had a "friend" (our husbands are friends) tell me that my kids make her grateful she doesn't have any. Granted my kids were being a handful (they had been at a festival all day in the sun with no nap)....but would this offend you? What would you have said. I found it strange since the last time we hung out she was telling me how every time she watched "Baby Story" and the like she feels her clock tickin'. Her husband also told my husband that she kept broaching the topic (having kids) with him....but he didn't feel he was ready. What's your opinion?

I think the rude comment stems from her trying to convince herself that she is better off at present being childless. She wants them, but her husband is not ready, so she is searching for reasons why she is better off not having them. Your kids being a handful simply fit the bill for her rationale at that moment. I would try not to take it personally. I know many adults who don't behave very well after a day of sun and stimulation, so why should your kids be perfect?

I tend to agree. To add to it, loving children and being interested in other children often develops after you have a child of your own. I did not dislike kids but I was not very much interested in them before I had my first one. I think maternal instinct developed when I had my own baby. And with this, came understanding, love and interest to other kids, and sympathy for parents.

Often women who are childless are sincerely disinterested in kids. It does not mean that they will make bad mothers. Other childless woman may feel that something is amiss in their lives, so they often feel jealous of their friends who have kids. Actually, I lost a couple of friends this way - they really wanted kids, and loved my first one, but they were young at that time. My second one came when I was 42, and they were still childless. They all congratulated me, and said I did a great thing, and offered to babysit... and gradually drifted away. I do not feel offended. I feel sorry for them.

Your friend's comment was rude, but I wonder if it came out of her own unhappiness.

Just to add to it - in Paris, a cafe owner called our 2-year old "merde" and virtually threw us out before our child had the time to do anything - he just expressed interest in a bike model standing on the window and tried to reach for it. He could have never touched it, he was 2! And I saw similar attitude many times. In contrast, in Mexico, a poor country, people went out of their way to be helpful because we had a small child. I loved Paris as a city, could live in Louvre for two months, but this unwelcoming attitude to kids was a put-off.

 

[LadyBlue]

We live in a univeristy town and I tell my husband that my Walmart trips are birth control for the college crowd.

I have heard this so many times, just yesterday I was having lunch with a friend, her kid was misbehaving and she told me "I'm sure you are glad that you don't have kids" and guess what, I was glad. I'm TTC right now, but when I see a kid crying, screaming, or being hard. I'm glad and thankful that I can still enjoying a childless life with my husband. That does not mean that I don't want kids or that I'm envious of her for being a mom.

What a find very interesting is how you Moms tell other people that your kids works as a birth control or a wish to not have kids, but at they same time they get upset if someone else express it.

 

[Steel]

We live in a univeristy town and I tell my husband that my Walmart trips are birth control for the college crowd.

I have heard this so many times, just yesterday I was having lunch with a friend, her kid was misbehaving and she told me "I'm sure you are glad that you don't have kids" and guess what, I was glad. I'm TTC right now, but when I see a kid crying, screaming, or being hard. I'm glad and thankful that I can still enjoying a childless life with my husband. That does not mean that I don't want kids or that I'm envious of her for being a mom.

What a find very interesting is how you Moms tell other people that your kids works as a birth control or a wish to not have kids, but at they same time they get upset if someone else express it.[/quote]

But isn't that a universal truth. A positve observation is almost always welcome but a negative observation; even if previously expressed by the person you are talking to; is not usually welcome.

I can say my a$$ is flat, but don't you tell me!


On the topic: I am an ex - Idon'twantchildren'er and really did get annoyed by the noise and general 'getting into everything-presence' of children. As I moved towards wanting children, I found that I had already tuned it out. It is funny. I did say to my friend who had a 3/4 yr old boy at the time that I don't know how she did it and I would never want kids. I never meant to be offensive but perhaps I was. It was not a reflection on her son; but on my inability to see myself coping with her son, who was good as gold btw.