friends without kids

[TravelingGal]

Amazing. Simply amazing. All the focus on the OTHER person - that mean, rude, child-hating witch. How DARE she!!! Not one word about the kids. No look in the mirror. Let's focus outside of those things we CAN control - like our children perhaps? and focus on that mean other person and how hurt WE are. It's certainly easier than having to pay attention to our kids.

I can't count how many parents making excuses for their children's behavior my husband has heard (teaching middle and highschool) over the years. Or how offended they become when he has the audacity to give them a bad grade or fail them. Their fangs come out. They blame everyone but themselves.

All I know is that people rarely make comments about children's behavior - for the very reason you see here. If they DO make a comment, it is generally because of something pretty over the top. Only the OP knows what was meant by "being a handful", but by that statement she acknowledges that even she observed that they weren't behaving all that well - I don't know if that means they were simply being too loud or playing badminton with the lady's Waterford collection. If they weren't behaving well and she knew it then she was expecting other people to sit there and PUT UP with her admittedly misbehaving kids. A comment should not have been such a shock. The tone of it aside, she can focus on herself and how hurt she is and look for sympathy, or she can work on making sure than no one wishes to comment thus in the future. Her choice.

Yoo hoo...are ya blind? Is that not what I said before you even got to this thread???

 

[junebug17]

Amazing. Simply amazing. All the focus on the OTHER person - that mean, rude, child-hating witch. How DARE she!!! Not one word about the kids. No look in the mirror. Let's focus outside of those things we CAN control - like our children perhaps? and focus on that mean other person and how hurt WE are. It's certainly easier than having to pay attention to our kids.

ksinger, out of respect for a fellow PSer, I'm not going to assume that her children were terrible monsters that needed immediate discipline AND that she sat around doing nothing about it until she comes back and clarifies. For all we know her children could have been terrible OR they could have just been whiney due to being out in the sun.

The only information we have is that her friend said that the OP children make her grateful she doesn't have any. If she was trying to draw attention to the fact that they needed discipline, then she could have chosen better words. Telling someone that the children they love are reason enough for them not to have any children IS rude and tasteless.

I agree with you fiery, I don't think there's enough info here to assume the OP's kids were behaving extremely badly, or that the OP wasn't making attempts to calm her kids down. They sound like small children due to still needing naps, and it sounds to me that the kids were crying because they were overtired. Sometimes it's hard to "control" young kids when they are fussing from being tired.

And even if the kids were behaving very badly, and the OP was sitting back doing absolutely nothing, I think the friend's comment was unhelpful, unnecessary, and mean. She could have chosen better words to state her opinion. The only intent I can gleam from it is to make the OP feel bad.

ETA: How is "Your kids make me glad I don't have any" constructive criticism? Isn't constructive criticism supposed to be helpful?

 

[steph72276]

Even the best of parents have children that have occasional meltdowns. No child is perfect, and I'm sure each and every one of us here gave their parents a hard time once or twice (or way more). The original poster did not give enough info to let us know if she was taking appropriate action to calm her children down or not. For all we know, she might have put the child in time out and they were screaming from their rooms...what else would you have her do? And "Your children make me glad I don't have any" is constructive how??

ETA: Junebug, I should have read your post before replying....I would have just said ditto!

 

[steph72276]

Amazing. Simply amazing. All the focus on the OTHER person - that mean, rude, child-hating witch. How DARE she!!! Not one word about the kids. No look in the mirror. Let's focus outside of those things we CAN control - like our children perhaps? and focus on that mean other person and how hurt WE are. It's certainly easier than having to pay attention to our kids.

I can't count how many parents making excuses for their children's behavior my husband has heard (teaching middle and highschool) over the years. Or how offended they become when he has the audacity to give them a bad grade or fail them. Their fangs come out. They blame everyone but themselves.

All I know is that people rarely make comments about children's behavior - for the very reason you see here. If they DO make a comment, it is generally because of something pretty over the top. Only the OP knows what was meant by "being a handful", but by that statement she acknowledges that even she observed that they weren't behaving all that well - I don't know if that means they were simply being too loud or playing badminton with the lady's Waterford collection. If they weren't behaving well and she knew it then she was expecting other people to sit there and PUT UP with her admittedly misbehaving kids. A comment should not have been such a shock. The tone of it aside, she can focus on herself and how hurt she is and look for sympathy, or she can work on making sure than no one wishes to comment thus in the future. Her choice.

Okay, a little off topic, but I just have to say this since I've noticed in post after post after post you list an anecdote given to you by your teacher husband. Does he ever actually tell you any good things about parents at his school? Perhaps those parents that volunteer their time, do bake sales, car washes, PTA, are actively involved in their student's lives? I have no idea what kind of school district he's in, but I would think for every awful parent he encounters, there are 10-20 or more good parents doing the right thing with their children. Maybe all this negative venting he's doing has skewed your opinion toward children somewhat.

 

[ForteKitty]

FL Steph, i know it's directed towards ksinger, but I think a lot of parents have gotten more worse in the recent years. I know a several teachers, some in great districts (Bev. Hills, Palos Verdes- in California- about 6 years or so of experience each), some in awful districts (south L.A.- those dont last long). Big difference in kids' behavior and parent behavior, but all agree that the problems are getting worse.

In the not so great districts, there are a lot of misbehaving kids who hit, scream, spit, and kick at teachers.. as young as age 6. The parents of those particular children simply dont care, and they dont parent. It's extremely frustrating for the teachers.

However, on the other end of the spectrum, you have parents who expect teachers to wait on their child hand and foot. Some of these parents expect their sons to make varsity and put up a stink when their kids suck and dont make the team. They expect their kids in honor programs when their kids get Bs and Cs. They expect teachers to write amazing of letters of recommendations when the kid clearly doesn't deserve it. Bad parents are everywhere, and there a lot of them.

I'm not saying the OP is any of the above, not at all! i'm strictly talking about the horror stories i've heard from my friends.

Maybe you shouldn't be so hard on ksinger's husband. Being a teacher these days is tough. you can't pay me enough to that job.

 

[steph72276]

Oh I'm well aware of how hard teaching is considering I was one for years, but for every difficult parent, there were truckloads of great ones that loved to help and were involved parents. But then again, maybe I was extremely lucky to have that experience and I do realize there are awful parents out there, but there are also wonderful ones that work extremely hard to produce productive, kind citizens.

ETA: Of course people are going to tell you the horror stories of their jobs, it's kind of boring to say "wow, listen to how cooperative this parent was today".

 

[Haven]

I didn't experience many great parents when I taught high school, but I think that's because parents are just less involved with their children once they reach high school in general. The great parents, of course, were the ones I never really saw or spoke to because they had well behaved children and there was no need.

I think teachers overwhelmingly feel that the parents who really *should* be open to hearing feedback about their children are typically the ones who aren't open to it at all. I teach teachers in a graduate program for reading specialists, and this is a common topic of discussion, and in my own experience teaching high school I saw this all the time.

As someone who does not yet have children, I can only imagine how difficult it is to hear someone tell you that your child is behaving badly without responding defensively or taking it as a personal attack on your parenting skills. I think that's a natural, human reaction. But of course, if the goal is to help your children become members of society, that reaction is something you have to put aside for the sake of your child. A nasty comment like the one the OP received is obviously a different story, as I don't know many who wouldn't initially find that rude. But even then, if someone is saying something about your children and the way they behave, it couldn't hurt to consider it and decide for yourself whether it's something you may want to address.

 

[jas]

Before I share a different kind of story, I will state (again) that I was a middle and high school teacher for 11 years and I have two little ones. At this point, when we take the boys in public, I assume there is a chance that it will be a cardio workout for me as I am always ready, willing, and able to yank my kids out of a situation if I feel their behavior/emotions are ruining someone else's shopping/eating/breathing.

I was in the grocery today...a mom with her three kids was in Aisle 4. I knew they were 4 aisles ahead of me from the moment I went into the store. You could hear these three (ages about 4, 9, and 11, give or take) all over the store. Whining, fussing, crying, begging, pleading. I could practically hear the eldest one's eye rolls from in the produce section. Trouble seemed to be brewing in Aisle 4 because I quickly caught up with them. By this time (oh, about 5 minutes of hearing this and seeing the entire store ready to chase them out of there with torches), I was ready to give the ol' hairy eyeball to the parent who had spawned these nasty creatures. After all, mine are pretty well "trained" on how to behave in public and they're not even two yet.

I saw the mom, almost meditatively speaking to the youngest, who had just broken a jar of something or other and was in hysterics. I saw the two older ones exasperated and sniping at each other. Mom, at first glance, barely seemed aware of what her kids were doing and seemed more interested in the peanut butter than her "brats." I got closer -- Mom was holding back tears and her quiet (and ineffective) "It's ok," seemed more for herself than her kids.

I actually said to the mom, "Can I help?" She was shocked and relieved. I went to get someone to clean up the mess. I came back and somehow her entire family had "reset." The kids were fine. No idea what their mom said to them when I was gone. The mom thanked me profusely, asked her two oldest to take the youngest to pick out some cereal (they did, no argument, no problem, no whining) and told me that their dad had just moved out over the weekend.

I thought about the time -- the ONE time -- one of mine had a meltdown at a store and how even though I raced the kid out of there, I got glared at and nasty "nice parenting" comments thrown at me. I am sure that me and my kid -- racing out of that Target a few weeks ago -- could be the fodder for another funny non-breeder story..."Jeeez, I have never heard a kid scream so loudly in all my life. Made my reproductive organs clench up!" I actually had one person STOP ME AS I WAS RUNNING MY KID OUT THE DOOR TO CALM HIM DOWN OUTSIDE tell me to, "Get control of [my] kid."

Look, I'm not naive enough to think that Every. Single. Time a kid is acting up and a parent is not doing anything that it's a story like this mother's. Trust me, I have "rotten parent" stories that'll singe your nose hairs. I dealt with parents who treated me like the hired help. I dealt with kids who got too much attention. I dealt with kids who got not enough attention. I'd say 20% of the parents were 80% of the problems. The parents of the great kids? Never really got to deal with them too much, unless I saw them around school in other capacities. I learned in my last few years teaching to give myself a break and contact the parents of the kids "doing it right" and tell their folks that I saw everything going on and how much I appreciated it. But, honestly, I often didn't have the time or energy for that.

Who knows, maybe next time I'm in Aisle 4 and I ask a seemingly spaced out parent if s/he needs help, I'll get snarled at. But I guess I'd rather, in that situation, give folks the benefit of the doubt.

That being said:
a) I've been lucky that mine are, for the most part, mellow and entertain themselves/each other in ways that don't generally upset others (I really can count on one hand the times I've had to leave a room with one of them.) But I also have friends who are great parents who *do* discipline and guide their children. Those children act out sometimes. The parents, for whatever reason, aren't as quick to remove their kids from a situation when they are in the company of friends, although they whisk 'em away in restaurants, etc. I guess the comfort level is different. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I just think the parents' tolerance for whining or fussing is different in those situations.

HERE'S THE POINT THAT TOOK ME WAAAY TO LONG TO GET TO:
b) Maybe, if I were OP's friend in this situation and, if indeed, I were bugged by the kids' behavior, I could have either said, "Hey, they're a little wound up, can you settle them down?" or (and this is more my style) "Would you like me to take the kids for a few minutes and help to distract/calm them?" Again, this is not going to work in a Target with strangers, but I think with a friend, it is much more helpful.

 

[ForteKitty]

ETA: Of course people are going to tell you the horror stories of their jobs, it's kind of boring to say "wow, listen to how cooperative this parent was today".

you were pretty lucky w/ the good parents. The stories i hear usually comes after this phrase: "i'm about to strangle someone. I NEED A DRINK!" and we're not talking over coffee... it's a total bitch fest about issue after issue. The complaining only stops when the someone passes out...

...kidding... sorta

 

[Haven]

Jas--I think it was very nice (and brave) of you to offer help to that distressed mother. I also think that your suggested approach is a much kinder, and probably more effective approach than the one the OP experienced.

I find myself out in public with my three horribly ill-behaved first cousins quite often. The twins are 4, and the eldest is 7. They scream, knock into people, play with their food, throw things, and generally attract a lot of very nasty glares from other patrons. I'm really uncomfortable in restaurants with them because people often assume I'm their mother and they direct their nasty comments at me. One woman in a restaurant said "You ought to be ashamed of yourself" and looked me up and down as if I was covered in feces as we walked out of the restaurant. The comment made me feel awful, but my aunt heard it and didn't bat an eye.

I guess my point is that when I see parents who are obviously flustered by their children's ill behavior, I typically assume that this behavior is not normal for them. When I see parents like my aunt and uncle, who just ignore the bad behavior and carry on with whatever they're doing, I assume that the kids are probably normally behaving badly out in public.

I do like your approach, and I might try it if I ever have the opportunity.

 

[jas]

Jas--I think it was very nice (and brave) of you to offer help to that distressed mother. I also think that your suggested approach is a much kinder, and probably more effective approach than the one the OP experienced.

I find myself out in public with my three horribly ill-behaved first cousins quite often. The twins are 4, and the eldest is 7. They scream, knock into people, play with their food, throw things, and generally attract a lot of very nasty glares from other patrons. I'm really uncomfortable in restaurants with them because people often assume I'm their mother and they direct their nasty comments at me. One woman in a restaurant said "You ought to be ashamed of yourself" and looked me up and down as if I was covered in feces as we walked out of the restaurant. The comment made me feel awful, but my aunt heard it and didn't bat an eye.

I guess my point is that when I see parents who are obviously flustered by their children's ill behavior, I typically assume that this behavior is not normal for them. When I see parents like my aunt and uncle, who just ignore the bad behavior and carry on with whatever they're doing, I assume that the kids are probably normally behaving badly out in public.

I do like your approach, and I might try it if I ever have the opportunity.

Sorry about your cousins. I can't imagine...

I don't know how "nice" or "brave" it was...I flashed to Wayne Dyer (I know, I know. Don't judge, I was on bedrest. ) who had a passage about a similar situation he had in a train. A boy was acting up on a train and good ol WD told the dad to get control of his kid, and the dad said they were coming from the hospital from where the kid's mom died. So, yeah, I don't live my life thinking WWWDD, but that story, however sappy and maudlin, sticks with me. I just hope the general idea of it sticks in someone else's mind when the time comes for my kid to realize he knows how to take all his clothes off. I am certain this time will come when we're in the middle of Crate and Barrel.

 

[steph72276]

Jas, I love your story and I try to do the same thing if it's obvious the parent is trying. Unless there is a pattern of bad behavior, I usually give the person the benefit of the doubt that it is indeed an unusual meltdown.

Haven, I totally agree that middle and high school are way different beasts than elementary. But we often forget about those parents with well behaved children because there's no need to deal with them at that age.

Fortekitty, I do realize I was extremely lucky in the school I was in. Our issue was more of parent "over involvement" if there is such a thing, mainly due to the fact that it was private and they were paying big $$ to send their children there. Never had it so bad where I needed to binge drink though, but could see how middle school and high school kids might do that to someone

 

[Haven]

Jas--I said you were brave because people are kind of unfriendly in my area, so it would take some guts to go up to a distressed mom and offer your help around here. Your Wayne Dyer story is really sad, and it will definitely stick with me. (And, I don't know who he is, so no judgment here! Off to Google him . . . ) I never give people nasty looks or comments, but I never offer to help, either, so it's a good lesson.

As for my cousins, well, it is what it is. DH wanted to ban them from our home after they pulled out many of the flowers he had recently planted in our front and backyards. Of course, there will be no banning of the cousins from our home. But, their older sister locked them in our dog's crate during Thanksgiving two years ago, and while I was freaked out and disgusted when I saw them napping in there, my uncle said "Hey, now THAT is a good idea!" My uncle has a very dry sense of humor, which I think makes everything a bit worse because his ill behaved children provide excellent comedic fodder for him.

Steph--I don't disagree that we forget about the parents of the well-behaved children. (Though, it's always been my policy to make as many positive phone calls as negative ones, so I talked to both a lot.) However, my point was just that the parents of the poorly behaved children often seemed very unwilling to really hear any feedback about their kids, that's all.

I would call parents if an otherwise well behaved kid started acting differently in my class, as that is a huge red flag to me, and THOSE parents were always really great. One in particular sticks out in my mind--his son was usually really respectful, and he talked back to me in class one day. No big deal, but a huge change. When I called dad on the phone his immediate response was "How long will you be in school?" When I told him, he said "His mother will be there at 3:30." Sure enough, at 3:30 mom and son came into my classroom, and I did not have to say a word. Mom very calmly yet assertively told her son that his behavior was unacceptable, told her how I was there to help him and if he gave me any problems she would take care of it herself, and once he "yes ma'amed" her, she got in really close and asked him what was wrong. He broke down and shared what had been bothering him, and you can bet that he never misbehaved again in my class. I told her she was my hero, of course, because she showed respect while disciplining her son, and she was firm yet flexible with him. It was a very cool thing to witness. She obviously had her parenting act together, and all of her kids were really successful because of it.

Sorry for the tangent.

Edited for embarrassing spelling errors. My apologies for whatever remains.

 

[jas]

Jas--I said you were brave because people are kind of unfriendly in my area, so it would take some guts to go up to a distressed mom and offer your help around here. Your Wayne Dyer story is really sad, and it will definitely stick with me. (And, I don't know who he is, so no judgment here! Off to Google him . . . ) I never give people nasty looks or comments, but I never offer to help, either, so it's a good lesson.

As for my cousins, well, it is what it is. DH wanted to ban them from our home after they pulled out many of the flowers he had recently planted in our front and backyards. Of course, there will be no banning of the cousins from our home. But, their older sister locked them in our dog's crate during Thanksgiving two years ago, and while I was freaked out and disgusted when I saw them napping in there, my uncle said "Hey, now THAT is a good idea!" My uncle has a very dry sense of humor, which I think makes everything a bit worse because his ill behaved children provide excellent comedic fodder for him.

Steph--I don't disagree that we forget about the parents of the well-behaved children. (Though, it's always been my policy to make as many positive phone calls as negative ones, so I talked to both a lot.) However, my point was just that the parents of the poorly behaved children often seemed very unwilling to really hear any feedback about their kids, that's all.

I would call parents if an otherwise well behaved kid started acting differently in my class, as that is a huge red flag to me, and THOSE parents were always really great. One in particular sticks out in my mind--his son was usually really respectful, and he talked back to me in class one day. No big deal, but a huge change. When I called dad on the phone his immediate response was "How long will you be in school?" When I told him, he said "His mother will be there at 3:30." Sure enough, at 3:30 mom and son came into my classroom, and I did not have to say a word. Mom very calmly yet assertively told her son that his behavior was unacceptable, told her how I was there to help him and if he gave me any problems she would take care of it herself, and once he "yes ma'amed" her, she got in really close and asked him what was wrong. He broke down and shared what had been bothering him, and you can bet that he never misbehaved again in my class. I told her she was my hero, of course, because she showed respect while disciplining her son, and she was firm yet flexible with him. It was a very cool thing to witness. She obviously had her parenting act together, and all of her kids were really successful because of it.

Sorry for the tangent.

Edited for embarrassing spelling errors. My apologies for whatever remains.

Haven, we're in the same neck o' the woods, so if you see a harried lady with two wackadoo boys at TJs or Target or any other store starting with T, smack me with a Wayne Dyer book. Make sure it's me, first, though.

Wow -- I actually see lots of parents who use their kids as a source of amusement/bemusement. Fantastic form of responsibility abdication. Yikes.

Those parents you talked with sound fantastic. I'm impressed with both of them!!!! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Haven]

We ARE in the same neck of the woods, aren't we? I'll start carrying a WD book around with me, for sure.

Those parents I described are so cool. They're fresh in my mind because I keep a little journal with anecdotes about all of the things I observe that I really want to do (and those that I want to avoid) when I have children. I feel like as teachers we have the benefit of observing an enormous variety of parenting styles and techniques, that it would be a shame not to pick something up. My notes from the gifted classes I teach at Northwestern are pretty hilarious, because so many of those families might as well be from outer space they are so very different from what I experienced in my own family. (In a good way--they are so well traveled, educated, cultured, it's insane. I often feel like a bumpkin while talking to them.)

 

[phoenixgirl]

I really don't want to threadjack, but I just want to say that I think I (as someone with 8 years of teaching experience in lower to middle income public middle and high schools) can say that there are good parents and mediocre parents and, sadly, bad parents in all schools, but this doesn't mean that it's OK to say you don't want kids after seeing somebody else's. In 8 years of teaching I had two or three really bad apples -- the toxic combination of a bratty, deceitful kid with a (shocking, right?) manipulative, mean, totally in-denial parent. (One of them came back a year ago to ask me to recommend him for the army. He was like, um, you were my 11th grade English teacher, right? And I was like, no, 10th . . . And he was like, yeah, well, you were the only one whose classroom I could remember. So . . . can you recommend me?" This is a kid who would stomp into the room, look at me, and say, "Ugh! Why can't SHE ever be absent?" Yes, I filled out the form . . . something like, "I have every reason to hope that [name] is a more thoughtful 19 year-old man than he was a 15 year-old boy.")

Ksinger, your post was just so angry. All I can tell you is that I had to let go of the anger I felt at being mistreated by students and parents. In my first two years of teaching, I would tell DH stories all the time about "Jessica Simpson girl" (because she was dumb and annoying) or "Serial Killer boy" (because he really seemed like a psychopath) or "the evil twins." But as the years passed, I learned to expect teenagers to act like teenagers, and I learned how to form better relationships and manage the classroom better so that icky situations were fewer and farther between. So even when some kid wrote me this sexually explicit email from his family email account (about the length and curvature of his "sword") and then his parents started sobbing in the vice-principal's office about how I was going to gossip about their son and make all the other teachers hate him and how I should apologize, I just learned to laugh it off (I mean, you can't make that stuff up . . .) and let the VP handle it. I learned to change my approach to certain parents (like the father with the brilliant daughter who didn't want her to take honors in case it ruined her A average. He actually called her a "little bird about to fall out of the nest and break her wing" in our conversation. I just kissed up and laughed at his jokes and told him she must get her smarts from him until he relented and let her stay in honors.) I found that when I did these things, the negative interactions with parents went from a few a year to maybe one every two years. Well, except for when I sponsored the National Honor Society. Then I got crazy emails from parents of non-selected kids all the time!

But I digress . . .

 

[NewEnglandLady]

But, their older sister locked them in our dog's crate during Thanksgiving two years ago, and while I was freaked out and disgusted when I saw them napping in there, my uncle said "Hey, now THAT is a good idea!"

Okay, sorry for the threadjack, but this? HILARIOUS! I keep telling my husband that our dog crates will come in handy for future kids. Now we just need to invest in some shock collars. Kidding!

and Jas, bravo to you for really taking the time to try to understand the situation instead of just assuming that the parent was ignoring her misbehaving children. I feel like the grocery store is where I have the most exposure to kids who are acting up--I can't say I blame them, I hate the grocery store, too.

 

[Haven]

NEL--We took pictures of course. I'd post them, but they're not my kids so I wouldn't feel right sharing. Needless to say, they're priceless.

 

[steph72276]

NEL, I don't know what it is about the grocery store that turns normally sweet kids into terrors. I have learned to leave mine with my husband when I go unless it's unavoidable.

Haven, you sound like a wonderful teacher and I'm sure those parents appreciated the positive feedback!

 

[meresal]

Just wanted to ask those of you that offer help to other mom's... please be sure you do so in a nice way. (Though I have no doubt that you ladies do.)

We were at dinner about a month ago, 4 of us, and when C got hungry I pulled out the bottle to feed him. He had apparently decided that he was boycotting the bottle(formula), in which case I needed to get my stuff together in order to go to the car to nurse him. He was crying, but we were right next to the kitchen door, so it wasn't any louder than the bus boys, waiters, and cooks banging pots around. Just as I was getting out of the booth, this random woman came over and said, "Do you mind if I hold the baby while you finish eating? I'm a grandmother."

All 4 of us just stared at her. The tone probably doesn't come across well in this post, but it was the rudest comment I have EVER heard. She was implying that we were more interested in our dinner than my crying child. I have never wanted to go off on anyone, as much as this 60 yr old woman. I almost lunged at her as I swung C to the opposite arm, which was no longer in her reach. I immediately said No. Even if this was someone being polite, who just wanted to hold him, what stranger would really ask to hold a 3 month old baby?!? She huffed and retreated to her table, I wateched her reinact the exchange to the other woman at her tabel, and then stared me down as I walked past her table to get out of the restaurant.

If I hear a child crying or acting up, I want to see a mom that is either trying to control the child, at her wit's end, and/or is visibly worried about the well being of other's around. I can't sand anything more than a toddler or group of them running a muck, only to find a parent either no where in site or just ignoring the situation. I would hope that we all have sympathy for a parent that is at least trying to remedy the situation.

 

[Laila619]

I think most people who say they don't like children really are more annoyed at the oblivious parents who refuse to discipline. I don't find kids acting out in public charming or cute or just doing what kids do. I find them annoying. Most parents seem so oblivious and think their kid being a whiny brat or crawling under another woman's dressing room door is adorable or funny. It's not. I really hope I am not that parent.

 

[zoebartlett]

I had a "friend" (our husbands are friends) tell me that my kids make her grateful she doesn't have any. Granted my kids were being a handful (they had been at a festival all day in the sun with no nap)....but would this offend you? What would you have said. I found it strange since the last time we hung out she was telling me how every time she watched "Baby Story" and the like she feels her clock tickin'. Her husband also told my husband that she kept broaching the topic (having kids) with him....but he didn't feel he was ready. What's your opinion?

Hmr -- sorry, but I don't think I actually replied to your original post, although I replied to another poster. To answer your question, I'd probably be taken aback and I'd feel annoyed at my friend's comment. I don't have kids, so this hypothetical, but I imagine I'd feel offended too. I know others have said that it might depend on how close you are to this person (and it doesn't seem as if you're that close). To me, that wouldn't really matter. I can't imagine saying this to someone else, let alone hearing it come from someone's mouth.

I have had a few friends with little kids say things like "are you sure you don't want to take him/her home with you?" when we've left their houses. I've gotten similar comments/questions too, but they were all said in a joking way, of course.

 

[zoebartlett]

Meresal -- I know you said that the tone of that woman's comment can't (obviously) be conveyed here, but are you sure she said it in a demeaning way? I took it as someone trying to be helpful. If I was in your position, I wouldn't have taken her up on the offer, but her question didn't appear rude to me.

 

[meresal]

If she had said, "Ohh your baby is so cute, can I hold him?" I would have thought it was harmless... but everyone at my table had the same reaction to her comment. She just waltzed up to our table and asked to hold the baby.

I understrand what you mean, but why in the world would someone ask to hold a baby that is inconsolable? I know my parents would, but not a complete stranger.

ETA: I also understand offering help to a woman by herself that looks overwhelmed, in which case I woiuld have preferred she worded her question a bit nicer... but not someone the is with 3 other adults perfectly capable of holding a baby. I dunno, it just struck a chord with me.

 

[Blackpaw]

Mmmm interesting one. Definitely out of line to say that one out loud. Id guess it was a filter-issue.

Or perhaps it was like Tgal suggested and she wanted the kids sorted because they were being a 'handful'? I dont know, but i can see as much judgement and condescension in this thread against the people who 'just doesnt understand' because they dont have kids, as there was in the OPs friend's comment (which was also unacceptable).

Its unfortunate that the kids/no kids things always seems to polarize people. I guess people need to feel like their life-choice is the right one?

 

[zoebartlett]

If she had said, "Ohh your baby is so cute, can I hold him?" I would have thought it was harmless... but everyone at my table had the same reaction to her comment. She just waltzed up to our table and asked to hold the baby.

I understrand what you mean, but why in the world would someone ask to hold a baby that is inconsolable? I know my parents would, but not a complete stranger.

ETA: I also understand offering help to a woman by herself that looks overwhelmed, in which case I woiuld have preferred she worded her question a bit nicer... but not someone the is with 3 other adults perfectly capable of holding a baby. I dunno, it just struck a chord with me.

Okay, gotcha. I see what you mean. Yeah, that's a little odd.

 

[Mara]

Actually Mere I also had the same reaction as Zoe. Obviously I wasn't there but the way I read it was that she was offering help--thinking as a grandmother maybe she could calm the baby and let you keep eating your food so you wouldn't have to take the baby out to the car. Maybe she didn't know you were going to BF--but rather thought you just wanted to take the babe out so he wouldn't bother other people. Or maybe not and she really did perceive slight but I don't know why some random person would want to offend you.

It does seem like totally random people love to offer help or suggestions when out with the baby and it's easy to take offense to a perceived slight when half the time it seems like people just are trying to offer suggestions or help in their own maybe-misguided ways. I think as new moms a lot of times we are a little more on-edge since we are still learning ourselves.

But I don't let strangers hold J regardless of how nice or whatever they are!

 

[steph72276]

Blackpaw, I don't think it's a kid/no kid polarization thing, but when someone without children assumes it's always the parent's fault no matter what, it can be very frustrating. Until you've been "in the trenches" so to speak when your normally well behaved child has a total meltdown in the store, and you have to be the brunt of the stink eye and rude comments as your racing out the door, you truly cannot sympathize the way someone who's been there, done that can.

 

[Pandora II]

I'm wondering if the OP's friend is having serious problems getting pregnant.

I've been on the receiving end of some similar comments and some deliberately rude comments from a girl who I happen to know is TTC and in the middle of fertility investigations - she has PCOS and hasn't had a cycle in over a year - and things are not looking good.

Last time I saw her she spent a good 20 minutes telling me how she'd never want kids and generally how much she loathed them. She doesn't know that I know about the fertility issues.

Also wanted to say that since having Daisy my view of many parents has changed hugely. Sometimes even the best parents in the world can't stop kiddo from throwing a tantru.

Daisy can do the whole throwing self to ground, scream at top of lungs, kick and roll around thing - generally in the middle of shops, trains, buses, restaurants, middle of the street... anywhere where you'd rather she didn't! I'm pretty hot on discipline especially if bad behaviour disrupts other people. I've been given a lot of dirty looks, but far more often people have stopped and joked with Daisy which is almost guaranteed to succeed, or at least given me a sympathetic smile.

I'm lucky at the moment that she's so tiny (stature rather than age) - if she was bigger I think people would be less likely to come over, they apparently find it cute to see this diminutive, determined child throwing such a wobbly...

 

[meresal]

Mara- I definitely agree with you, that she was trying to help... i just don't know if it was from a kind place or from a, "If she isn't going to do anything about that baby, then I will" place. From the way she approached us, and the way she asked, I got the impression it was the latter.