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Female Mccain''s VP pick

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mrssalvo

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Loves Vintage, it seems that the wolves (coyotes and foxes too) are killing and endanging the moose and caribou in Alaska which is why she supports it. Here''s a little more info.



http://www.slate.com/id/2199140/
 

MoonWater

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I''m still a bit lost on this one after reading that article...she supports hunting wolves to protect the animals that she likes to hunt. Why not ban hunting of those animals if she really wants to save them?!?
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Someone break it down for me, I''m tired.
 

mrssalvo

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Date: 9/23/2008 5:10:46 PM
Author: MoonWater
I'm still a bit lost on this one after reading that article...she supports hunting wolves to protect the animals that she likes to hunt. Why not ban hunting of those animals if she really wants to save them?!?
33.gif



Someone break it down for me, I'm tired.

moon, i've have to research a bit more deeply but from what I understand (which isn't much) that hunting is for food as well as sport in their state. I also believe that the wildlife, if not kept under control will become a threat to the human population there. i.e. wolves roaming around in the same backyards where little children play.
 

movie zombie

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i do not consider her a hunter as she shoots wildlife while being airborne and uses a semi-auto type rifle to boot. or so i''ve read.

a real hunter is on the ground, tracks his/her prey and has the guts to look said animal in the eye.

movie zombie
 

MoonWater

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Date: 9/23/2008 5:52:34 PM
Author: mrssalvo
Date: 9/23/2008 5:10:46 PM

Author: MoonWater

I''m still a bit lost on this one after reading that article...she supports hunting wolves to protect the animals that she likes to hunt. Why not ban hunting of those animals if she really wants to save them?!?
33.gif




Someone break it down for me, I''m tired.


moon, i''ve have to research a bit more deeply but from what I understand (which isn''t much) that hunting is for food as well as sport in their state. I also believe that the wildlife, if not kept under control will become a threat to the human population there. i.e. wolves roaming around in the same backyards where little children play.

Ok, I understand that. But if there was a true fear of the animals being endangered, I would think citizens could adjust their diets and find new sport interests. I just find it hard to agree with hunting wolves in order to maintain the current population of moose and caribou but at the same time still hunting those particular animals. If protection was the true concern, then hunting the wolves should be coupled with a ban (even if temporary) on hunting moose and caribou.
 

goobear78

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Here''s an article from Politico about how many days Sarah Palin played hooky
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. Kinda scary for a first term gov. to be out of office for so many days.
 

SarahLovesJS

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I'm going to sound like a heartless mean old conservative when I say I could care less if she hunts, but that's probably just me.
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ETD: Toned down unintended could-be perceived as snarkiness.
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miraclesrule

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Date: 9/23/2008 7:58:31 PM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/23/2008 5:52:34 PM
Author: mrssalvo

Date: 9/23/2008 5:10:46 PM

Author: MoonWater

I''m still a bit lost on this one after reading that article...she supports hunting wolves to protect the animals that she likes to hunt. Why not ban hunting of those animals if she really wants to save them?!?
33.gif




Someone break it down for me, I''m tired.


moon, i''ve have to research a bit more deeply but from what I understand (which isn''t much) that hunting is for food as well as sport in their state. I also believe that the wildlife, if not kept under control will become a threat to the human population there. i.e. wolves roaming around in the same backyards where little children play.

Ok, I understand that. But if there was a true fear of the animals being endangered, I would think citizens could adjust their diets and find new sport interests. I just find it hard to agree with hunting wolves in order to maintain the current population of moose and caribou but at the same time still hunting those particular animals. If protection was the true concern, then hunting the wolves should be coupled with a ban (even if temporary) on hunting moose and caribou.
MW, that is far too rational. Stop it. Rationality has no business in Politics.
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Anna0499

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Date: 9/23/2008 8:36:29 PM
Author: SarahLovesJS
I''m going to sound like a heartless mean old conservative when I say I could care less if she hunts, but that''s probably just me.
19.gif


ETD: Toned down unintended could-be perceived as snarkiness.
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Haha Sarah I hear ya''! I''m all about protecting endangered species but I''m not going to criticize someone''s way of life (hunting) if it''s done responsibly and legally. I don''t think anyone on here has done this, but I''ve read her criticized for being a hunter many times. From what I''ve read, the moose & caribou hunters actually take the meat home to eat, so I don''t really see a problem with protecting their numbers if there is an overpopulation of wolves.
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Ninama

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Date: 9/23/2008 8:36:29 PM
Author: SarahLovesJS
I''m going to sound like a heartless mean old conservative when I say I could care less if she hunts, but that''s probably just me.
19.gif



ETD: Toned down unintended could-be perceived as snarkiness.
5.gif



Here''s a guy who''s been pretty busy exploring Palin rumors (84 of them!), including the aerial hunting - it''s #7:



http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/06/palin-rumors/
 

luckystar112

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Thank you so much for that, Ninama. I read the whole thing....will comment on it later. Hope others take the time to read it too!
 

Loves Vintage

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Date: 9/23/2008 7:26:41 PM
Author: movie zombie
i do not consider her a hunter as she shoots wildlife while being airborne and uses a semi-auto type rifle to boot. or so i've read.


a real hunter is on the ground, tracks his/her prey and has the guts to look said animal in the eye.


movie zombie


MZ - I completely agree with you. This is not about hunting. This is about the brutal practice promoted by Palin of gunning these beautiful animals down from the air or chasing them down from the air, to exhaustion, and then shooting them point-blank. It is a program unsupported by science.

"Gordon Haber is a wildlife scientist who has studied wolves in Alaska for 43 years. 'On wildlife-related issues, whether it is polar bears or predator controls, she has shown no inclination to be objective,' he says of Palin. 'I cannot find credible scientific data to support their arguments,' he adds about the state’s rational for gunning down wolves. 'In most cases, there is evidence to the contrary.'

Senseless action with a complete lack of scientific or factual basis. Sound familiar anyone?

http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news/2008/september/her-deadly-wolf-prog.html

Note also that private citizens are licensed to shoot from the air as well, so this is not a practice limited to certain state officials.

It is a barbaric, cruel and heartless practice. It existed in Alaska before Palin, but she spent 400k of the state's money promoting this barbaric practice, in spite of a complete lack of scientific evidence to support the assertion that the moose and caribou populations would be benefited at all.

I know that people hunt. And, yes, some people hunt for food. This is not hunting for food. This is killing in a very brutal way, and it is senseless.

Now, what about the polar bears?
 

Anna0499

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Date: 9/23/2008 10:20:49 PM
Author: Loves Vintage

MZ - I completely agree with you. This is not about hunting. This is about the brutal practice promoted by Palin of gunning these beautiful animals down from the air or chasing them down from the air, to exhaustion, and then shooting them point-blank. It is a program unsupported by science.

'Gordon Haber is a wildlife scientist who has studied wolves in Alaska for 43 years. 'On wildlife-related issues, whether it is polar bears or predator controls, she has shown no inclination to be objective,' he says of Palin. 'I cannot find credible scientific data to support their arguments,' he adds about the state’s rational for gunning down wolves. 'In most cases, there is evidence to the contrary.'

Senseless action with a complete lack of scientific or factual basis. Sound familiar anyone?

http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news/2008/september/her-deadly-wolf-prog.html

Note also that private citizens are licensed to shoot from the air as well, so this is not a practice limited to certain state officials.

It is a barbaric, cruel and heartless practice. It existed in Alaska before Palin, but she spent 400k of the state's money promoting this barbaric practice, in spite of a complete lack of scientific evidence to support the assertion that the moose and caribou populations would be benefited at all.

I know that people hunt. I am not stupid. And, yes, some people hunt for food. This is not hunting for food. This is killing in a very brutal way, and it is senseless.

Now, what about the polar bears?
They aren't hunting the wolves for food, but if there are too many wolves then I could see the connection if they have no moose or caribou to hunt and eat. I've read that the practice may have closer ties to tourism from game hunting than the population of other animals (which I don't agree with but it wouldn't be the first or last time wildlife gets tossed to the wayside for tourism/making money for the state). I don't know what hunting is like in Alaska and I imagine it's much different than hunting here in the lower 48 so I won't make judgments on the practice of aerial hunting and I believe they all need permits before just hopping on a plane and gunning some wolves down. I also think a lot of it is a matter of opinion; many people don't eat meat because they think cows, pigs, and chickens are treated cruelly.

ETA: Just to be clear, I have never been hunting in my life and I certainly don't approve of game hunting. If that is the real motive behind the aerial hunting of wolves then I don't support it; I just would need more information since it's an unknown practice to us lower 48 dwellers.
 

luckystar112

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Personally, I think the chicken, cows, and pigs that we eat for dinner die in a more inhumane way.
 

Loves Vintage

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Date: 9/23/2008 10:34:43 PM
Author: IndyGirl22
Date: 9/23/2008 10:20:49 PM

Author: Loves Vintage


MZ - I completely agree with you. This is not about hunting. This is about the brutal practice promoted by Palin of gunning these beautiful animals down from the air or chasing them down from the air, to exhaustion, and then shooting them point-blank. It is a program unsupported by science.


'Gordon Haber is a wildlife scientist who has studied wolves in Alaska for 43 years. 'On wildlife-related issues, whether it is polar bears or predator controls, she has shown no inclination to be objective,' he says of Palin. 'I cannot find credible scientific data to support their arguments,' he adds about the state’s rational for gunning down wolves. 'In most cases, there is evidence to the contrary.'


Senseless action with a complete lack of scientific or factual basis. Sound familiar anyone?


http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news/2008/september/her-deadly-wolf-prog.html


Note also that private citizens are licensed to shoot from the air as well, so this is not a practice limited to certain state officials.


It is a barbaric, cruel and heartless practice. It existed in Alaska before Palin, but she spent 400k of the state's money promoting this barbaric practice, in spite of a complete lack of scientific evidence to support the assertion that the moose and caribou populations would be benefited at all.


I know that people hunt. I am not stupid. And, yes, some people hunt for food. This is not hunting for food. This is killing in a very brutal way, and it is senseless.


Now, what about the polar bears?
They aren't hunting the wolves for food, but if there are too many wolves then I could see the connection if they have no moose or caribou to hunt and eat. I've read that the practice may have closer ties to tourism from game hunting than the population of other animals (which I don't agree with but it wouldn't be the first or last time wildlife gets tossed to the wayside for tourism/making money for the state). I don't know what hunting is like in Alaska and I imagine it's much different than hunting here in the lower 48 so I won't make judgments on the practice of aerial hunting and I believe they all need permits before just hopping on a plane and gunning some wolves down. I also think a lot of it is a matter of opinion; many people don't eat meat because they think cows, pigs, and chickens are treated cruelly.

Yes, I know they are not hunting the wolves for food. They are aerially hunting the wolves under the premise that it will protect/preserve/enhance the caribou and moose population. That is the premise. From what I have read, there is no scientific evidence to support this premise.

Hunting in Alaska is not remarkably different than in the rest of the US. Most hunters disagree with this practice, which is actively promoted by Palin.

ETA: I have not read that the practice is intended as a type of canned-hunt. From what I've read, the main criticism is that it is barbaric and does not serve the intended purpose of improving caribou/moose populations.
 

Anna0499

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Date: 9/23/2008 10:45:43 PM
Author: Loves Vintage

Yes, I know they are not hunting the wolves for food. They are aerially hunting the wolves under the premise that it will protect/preserve/enhance the caribou and moose population. That is the premise. From what I have read, there is no scientific evidence to support this premise.

Hunting in Alaska is not remarkably different than in the rest of the US. Most hunters disagree with this practice, which is actively promoted by Palin.
Right; in other articles I've read some people are claiming the motive to be based more on the game hunting industry in Alaska more than moose/caribou protection (as in preserving the moose/caribou, not the wolves, for game hunters). If that is the case then I don't support it. I don't know what the true motives are - perhaps it is a combination in differing proportions. I would be interested in reading population numbers of those animals to see if any connection can be made (sounds like for the most part no at this point in time). I've never been hunting in Alaska so I'll take your word for it on that one; I just figured more sparse land = more difficult to hunt on foot but who knows.
 

Loves Vintage

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Date: 9/23/2008 10:52:22 PM
Author: IndyGirl22
Date: 9/23/2008 10:45:43 PM

Author: Loves Vintage
I''ve never been hunting in Alaska so I''ll take your word for it on that one; I just figured more sparse land = more difficult to hunt on foot but who knows.


Yes, that''s what I thought you were thinking. I''ve never been hunting in Alaska either. My comment is based on what I''ve read recently, as well as conversations that I''ve had with co-workers who hunt. They don''t see it as true hunting, because the animal has no way to escape, and there is no actual hunt. Same thing with canned hunting.
 

miraclesrule

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Date: 9/23/2008 10:41:20 PM
Author: luckystar112

Personally, I think the chicken, cows, and pigs that we eat for dinner die in a more inhumane way.
So true luckystar. Your comment reminded me of a conversation that me, my daughter, and her DH had while they were planning their honeymoon activities. Their last stop will be in Madrid and my SIL said that they had to go see a bullfight in Spain and that would be so "awesome". I looked at my daughter and back and him and asked my daughter if she was okay with watching the Matador kill the bull. The conversation went something like this:

DD: Do they really kill the bull?
SIL: Well, yeah, that's the point. Sometimes the Matador might get killed by the bull.
DD: Um, well, if we go, isn't that a bit like condoning what they do.
SIL: Well, it's not like they just kill it for sport. They eat the bull.
DD: I'm not sure that makes it any better
SIL: We eat cows and they don't get a chance to kill the farmer
Me: ::::snicker:::: Well, he has a point there.


I was tempted to say : "If the Matador is killed, will they eat him?


No point to this story. Your post just reminded me of the conversation. They just arrived in Switzerland and will be in Madrid by the weekend. I wonder if they end up going to the bullfight.
 

Anna0499

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Date: 9/23/2008 11:01:05 PM
Author: Loves Vintage

Yes, that's what I thought you were thinking. I've never been hunting in Alaska either. My comment is based on what I've read recently, as well as conversations that I've had with co-workers who hunt. They don't see it as true hunting, because the animal has no way to escape, and there is no actual hunt. Same thing with canned hunting.
Yeah, I don't know anyone that goes hunting so my knowledge of it is quite limited.
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I think I agree with the majority of people that think hunting for food/clothes/etc. is peachy but for "fun"? Nah.
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On an interesting parallel to aerial hunting; I wish people would get as fired up about preventing drive-by shootings! Not talking about anyone on here because obviously aerial wolf hunting is a very pertinent and significant issue to discuss, but when I read Loves Vintage's post above that's what instantly came to mind.

ETA: Funny exchange there miraclesrule!
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diamondfan

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I am reminded of the scene in 9 to 5 where Jane Fonda hunts Dabney Coleman down in a fantasy sequence so he would, in her fantasy, know what it felt like to be a defenseless animal.
 

Anna0499

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Date: 9/23/2008 11:24:18 PM
Author: diamondfan
I am reminded of the scene in 9 to 5 where Jane Fonda hunts Dabney Coleman down in a fantasy sequence so he would, in her fantasy, know what it felt like to be a defenseless animal.
LMAO! That movie is supposed to be "before my time" by my mom loves that movie so I got a good dose of it growing up! Classic.
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movie zombie

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i grew up in a hunting family. hunting can be done for the skill of tracking and other things to the point that some give up rifles altogether and go for the bow. i'd rather the game killed be utilized for food rather than just left to rot [and some even tan the hides and utlize the leather and/or fur]. and i'd rather that people that insist on killing with semi-autos from airplanes refrain from calling themselves hunters. they aren't. i am obviously very prejudiced about this. i have no respect for so-called killers in airplanes and this includes but is not limited to ms palin who claims to be a hunter and even if she doesn't have the time advocates a form of slaughter i can't abide. actually, we only agree on one thing: private ownership of guns....everything else about her is a negative for me.

movie zombie
 

luckystar112

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From the link that Ninama posted, in case no one bothered to click on it...


Yes, she did want authority to have wolves culled from the air, because they were taking too many moose and caribou. Which people hunt for food in the back country in Alaska. No, she isn’t shooting them herself. I mean, not that she couldn’t, but I’m sure she doesn’t have time. (Thanks to bluemerlin in the comments.)


Look, this is one of those that I’m tempted to categorize under “cripes, what city folks will believe.” You don’t sport hunt from the air; this isn’t some fascination with “blood sports.” This is wildlife management; the authority wasn’t general, it was for only a limited number of wolves, and it was to be done by people with state-issued permits. Here’s how this happens in the wild in a predator-prey model: the predators build up to the point that they cut the population of the prey animals dramatically. They then starve. The prey animals then build up again. Repeat. Only, in this case, the predators who would starve include Alaska’s native (and Native) human population.
 

movie zombie

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pictures from the office of the alaska govenor with some big dead animals and ms palin: http://www.fieldandstream.com/article_gallery/Sarah-Palin-Hunting-and-Fishing-Pics/4

apparently Field and Stream was allowed 5 photos, mostly of her and dead fish and two of big 4 legged critters, one picture which is rather bloody and includes not only ms palin but her daughter. ms palin appears to have no problem with it being known that she hunts.


movie zombie
 

Loves Vintage

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Date: 9/24/2008 12:01:00 AM
Author: luckystar112
From the link that Ninama posted, in case no one bothered to click on it...



Yes, she did want authority to have wolves culled from the air, because they were taking too many moose and caribou. Which people hunt for food in the back country in Alaska. No, she isn’t shooting them herself. I mean, not that she couldn’t, but I’m sure she doesn’t have time. (Thanks to bluemerlin in the comments.)



Look, this is one of those that I’m tempted to categorize under “cripes, what city folks will believe.” You don’t sport hunt from the air; this isn’t some fascination with “blood sports.” This is wildlife management; the authority wasn’t general, it was for only a limited number of wolves, and it was to be done by people with state-issued permits. Here’s how this happens in the wild in a predator-prey model: the predators build up to the point that they cut the population of the prey animals dramatically. They then starve. The prey animals then build up again. Repeat. Only, in this case, the predators who would starve include Alaska’s native (and Native) human population.


Yes, I read this, but what relevance? This is one man''s opinion. According to his blog, he is a computer scientist. I''m not ready to let Charlie Martin (the blogger) resolve this issue for me as he apparently has no direct knowledge of the situation. I''m interested in what the scientists who have studied the situation have to say.

I do, however, like the heading on Charlie Martin''s blog:

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
 

SarahLovesJS

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Interesting "Bridge to Nowhere" article on CNN, not sure where else to post it: Article
 

Loves Vintage

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Date: 9/24/2008 8:41:46 AM
Author: SarahLovesJS
Did anyone actually read this article? http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/wolves/story/410461.html/
Yes, I did. Palin spent 400k of the state's money on promoting this program. It is no surprise that state wildlife officials will attempt to justify the program.

Here's another article on the topic from the Anchorage Daily News:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/wolves/story/469720.html

Again, it is the method and manner of killing that is in dispute, as well as Palin's inability to analyze the situation objectively.
 

goobear78

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Very interesting. Conservative columnist, Kathleen Parker wrote an article for the National Review Online saying that she thinks Palin should "bow out." I''m kinda shocked. I heard on one of the news channels that this might be the "October surprise" campaigns pull. Personally I highly doubt she''ll step down. What do you all think?

Here''s the link to the NRO article.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDZiMDhjYTU1NmI5Y2MwZjg2MWNiMWMyYTUxZDkwNTE=
 
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