Female Mccain''s VP pick

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/4/2008 10:21:09 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/4/2008 9:58:46 PM

Author: trillionaire

Date: 9/4/2008 9:37:17 PM

Author: IndyGirl22

I think it''s funny when people act like none of the Dems attacked anyone or lied/flipflopped in their speeches...ALL politicians lie or exaggerate in their speeches & ALL politicians ''play dirty.'' It is the nature of the politics we have created. The mere fact that Biden is Obama''s VP shows a HUGE inconsistency given his history but no one brings that up. Anyway, I agree with miraclesrule that, ''That is why hype and sensationalism is so effective. It easily seduces the ignorant mind.'' However, I think we mean to apply it to different candidates.

Actually, I like to fact check all of the candidates. By nature of being a politicians, they are hard to trust, and I abhor being lied to. I''m not expecting everyone to be right 100% of the time, and I know that not everyone writes their own speeches, but her lies were BLATANT, intentional and manipulative. I''ve known about this woman for less then a week and could spot her lies (some of them) so obviously. It was a rookie mistake to do what she did last night, and she is going to pay for it I suspect.


As for Obama/Biden, there are other threads to discuss them, I thought we were solely focusing on the lady of the hour. I''ve been trying very hard to stay on topic

ETA: I encourage every good citizen to check the facts here.


Obama''s speech analysis

Palin''s speech analysis

Oh I know there are Biden/Obama threads, but this one has pretty much turned into an Obama supporter thread, so I didn''t think my post was inappropriate. Sorry. I''ve learned to watch speeches for entertainment, I don''t watch them seeking the truth because honestly, I won''t find it from ANY politician. I''ve learned that speeches are meant to convey and strike up emotion...I don''t listen to Palin''s speeches to get facts about Obama just like I don''t listen to Biden''s speeches to get facts about McCain. Thanks for posting those links, I''ve been to that website frequently this election year and the speech analyses just proved my point. Watching McCain now...

It''s great that you are familiar with the site.

Unfortunately, there are people who think that politicians are not lying to their faces, and they don''t seek further information.

 

[miraclesrule]

You know, it is sort of sad in a way, because I truly believe that Sarah Palin was a "maverick" who was very interested in "cleaning up" corrupt local politicians in Alaska and to help the people of Alaska. But as is the case in many people, power can corrupt. Money and power is an even more intoxicating mix.

It doesn't bother me that much that she increased the city tax from 2% to 2.5% or whatever it was. Reallly????? I would love it if that was the amount of sales tax we had to pay. And it was to build a sports complex. Where else can a soccer mom wear her lipstick if there is no sports complex for the kids to play soccer?

It's better than the kids having nowhere to engage in sports activity. If there were a bigger scandal in that one act, I would like to know, but if it was a benefit to the entire city to have that complex for the kids to have a place to engage in sports, then it is no different than any of the big cities voting to build a newer and bigger ball park in their city. Now, if it was her family or campaign contributors that benefitted from the construction of the complex and it was to pay back the folks who financed her mayoral campaign, then I would gladly eat some humble pie.

I just get the sense that somewhere along the line, Sarah Palin "sold out" and reinvented herself, not completely, but invented herself to comform to the party because she was being groomed, by them, for bigger and better things. I suspect, and this is pure speculation and my own sense after reviewing a lot of history.....that when she was extremely effective at dismantling and defeating a lot of corrupt Republicans in her state, it got the attention of the Republican party. Now, if I were a heavy hitter in a party and I saw someone with that ability, would I want them to continue to discredit my party or would I want to gain their favor and bring them to my side in order to prevent further damage? In fact, wouldn't I want to have her on my side in case I ever needed her to do the same damage to the opposition? It's not unlike drafting a talented NFL player and/or luring one to your team with big money and stardom. One minute you play for one team, and the next minute you are playing for the other team because they are paying you more money and providing you security. I don't mind it so much in sports, but when it comes to my future....eh, it's a bit more personal for me.

In my opinion, Sarah Palin's ambition was easy prey for the large political Republican machine. I admire some of her political past, but I just can't get myself to respect her "present" <-------no pun intended

Even more than that, I just don't find her qualifed to be my President should something happen to McCain. And regardless of what some people might opine, the VP position is very important. It is the second string on a team (sorry about the football analogies, I am a football freak) It is naive to think that John McCain is immune to injury, illness or death that would prevent him from carrying out the duties of the Presidency. The V.P is the person who should be capable of leading America within 24 hours of the President being sworn in to office. Anything can happen. One day you are alive, and the next day, well....maybe you're not.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 9/4/2008 10:30:43 PM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 9/4/2008 10:21:09 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/4/2008 9:58:46 PM

Author: trillionaire

Date: 9/4/2008 9:37:17 PM

Author: IndyGirl22

I think it''s funny when people act like none of the Dems attacked anyone or lied/flipflopped in their speeches...ALL politicians lie or exaggerate in their speeches & ALL politicians ''play dirty.'' It is the nature of the politics we have created. The mere fact that Biden is Obama''s VP shows a HUGE inconsistency given his history but no one brings that up. Anyway, I agree with miraclesrule that, ''That is why hype and sensationalism is so effective. It easily seduces the ignorant mind.'' However, I think we mean to apply it to different candidates.

Actually, I like to fact check all of the candidates. By nature of being a politicians, they are hard to trust, and I abhor being lied to. I''m not expecting everyone to be right 100% of the time, and I know that not everyone writes their own speeches, but her lies were BLATANT, intentional and manipulative. I''ve known about this woman for less then a week and could spot her lies (some of them) so obviously. It was a rookie mistake to do what she did last night, and she is going to pay for it I suspect.


As for Obama/Biden, there are other threads to discuss them, I thought we were solely focusing on the lady of the hour. I''ve been trying very hard to stay on topic

ETA: I encourage every good citizen to check the facts here.


Obama''s speech analysis

Palin''s speech analysis

Oh I know there are Biden/Obama threads, but this one has pretty much turned into an Obama supporter thread, so I didn''t think my post was inappropriate. Sorry. I''ve learned to watch speeches for entertainment, I don''t watch them seeking the truth because honestly, I won''t find it from ANY politician. I''ve learned that speeches are meant to convey and strike up emotion...I don''t listen to Palin''s speeches to get facts about Obama just like I don''t listen to Biden''s speeches to get facts about McCain. Thanks for posting those links, I''ve been to that website frequently this election year and the speech analyses just proved my point. Watching McCain now...

It''s great that you are familiar with the site.

Unfortunately, there are people who think that politicians are not lying to their faces, and they don''t seek further information.

You can sign up for daily factcheck updates from that site. I''ve been getting them for the last 4 years.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/4/2008 10:30:43 PM
Author: trillionaire

It's great that you are familiar with the site.

Unfortunately, there are people who think that politicians are not lying to their faces, and they don't seek further information.

I agree with you 100%!

Sadly, I think a lot of voters are sheep with just a few shepherds...many of whom are misled themselves.

ETA: I actually used that site to get Obama's policies because I didn't trust anyone else to give them to me!

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 9/4/2008 9:28:47 PM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/4/2008 5:44:44 PM
Author: ladypirate

Date: 9/4/2008 5:06:48 PM

Author: meresal

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM


Author: ladypirate


I have to say, all debate about abortion rights and whatever else aside, that I don''t particularly like Gov. Palin. She just rubs me the wrong way. I thought her speech, though well-delivered, was condescending and rude, especially given the fact that Obama has done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty. Granted, she didn''t write the thing, but she still gave it.



She seems to me like someone who would smile to your face then stab you in the back...I just can''t say that I trust her. It will be interesting to see the polls after the RNC.



Also, slightly off topic, but Lieberman''s speech bugged the cr*p out of me...2 years ago he was talking about being Obama''s mentor and how much he cared about him and now he''s treating him like garbage. That man is such a slimeball.

I find your post very interesting, because this is one of the things that completely turned me off of Obama. His little cat fights with Hillary all througout the nomination process. He seemed very arrogant to me. I couldn''t stand it. I''m not a democrat and never planned on voting for either of them. I really enjoy watching the debates, but these 2, I just couldn''t stand it.



Also, I respect your opinion about Palin, but it gets me thinking. What if candidates made their speeches and then we were told who they are running with/for. Do you think that any animosity towards her speech may have come from the fact that you already knew that she was running with McCain?



I have a hard time believeing she or Biden are going to have much pull at all around the White House, so I''m not too worried about either of them.

My comment was more related to how he''s reacted to all the scandal surrounding Gov. Palin than his interactions with Sen. Clinton. Even in that, though, I thought he conducted himself better than many would have. Throughout the primary election, it seemed that Obama was constantly on the defensive from attacks from the Clintons. While it is unusual for a democratic candidate to defend themselves (look at Gore & Kerry), I thought that he did so in a way that was eloquent and somewhat elevated. Perhaps you saw arrogance, but I saw someone who refused to wallow in mud as so many others around him were doing. If that makes him elitist, that saddens me.


As for whether I would feel the same about her if her attacks were directed at McCain, I would. Partly because I disagree with her politics, partly because she doesn''t tell the whole truth about her record (she claimed in that very speech that she opposed the bridge to nowhere, after running for governor with the promise to support that very bridge), and partly because I don''t like the way she talked about her opponent. She had the line about how he''s authored 2 memoirs but no major laws? In Obama''s firs year in the senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored an additional 427 bills. Several of these have become laws. Are they simply not major enough to be counted? This coming from someone with so little executive experience that a few months ago she didn''t even know what the Vice President DID.


You may be right about her not having much sway even if McCain wins the election, but McCain is an old man who could very well die in office. And I certainly don''t want someone like Palin as our Commander in Chief.

I just got back and have yet to read through everything but I must give a standing ovation to you for this post. I only caught part of Palin''s speech and I could not believe how she blatantly lied. She''s going to make it soooo easy to attack her. I don''t care if she didn''t write the speech, she at least should have had it fact checked before giving it. I cringed like a mf when she said the stuff in bold. Oh well, so much for liking her.

Welcome back, Moon.

 

[ladypirate]

An interesting read: Gloria Steinem on Palin

Favorite quote:

"And American women, who suffer more because of having two full-time jobs than from any other single injustice, finally have support on a national stage from male leaders who know that women can't be equal outside the home until men are equal in it. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are campaigning on their belief that men should be, can be and want to be at home for their children."

Also, here's Obama's response to Palin's speech.

 

[miraclesrule]

I''ve been searching all day for Obama''s reaction to Sarah Palin''s speech. Thanks ladypirate for the link.

Although I think Obama did a satisfactory job of responding to the reporters concerns, it seems to me that he is concerned about the Palin factor. Either that or he is disgusted with the media always wanting to incite a tit for tat respnse. Perhaps it''s a little of both.

Obama didn''t have the large special interest money at his disposal in the primary. He is going to have to use it in the general election. It must be troubling for him. In fact, I am glad that it appears to make him uncomfortable. I think it would make me respect him less if he was jumping for joy right now and took the bait.

It''s going to be an interesting campaign season...or a very ugly and disheartening election. I can''t wait for a decent debate. I hope we can have more YouTube debates instead of the typical BS media baiting debates that have plagued our elections in the last 10 years.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 9/4/2008 11:04:16 PM
Author: ladypirate
An interesting read: Gloria Steinem on Palin

Favorite quote:

''And American women, who suffer more because of having two full-time jobs than from any other single injustice, finally have support on a national stage from male leaders who know that women can''t be equal outside the home until men are equal in it. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are campaigning on their belief that men should be, can be and want to be at home for their children.''

Also, here''s Obama''s response to Palin''s speech.

I still love Gloria Steinem.

 

[ksinger]

The Resentment Strategy

I see this attitude on this very board. I see it in some my personal friends who are die-hard Republicans. (Yes, I do have friends, AND friends who are Republican. Amazing ain''t it??)

 

[MoonWater]

McCain''s revenge.

So, after watching McCain speak and talking with FI, I now wonder if he''ll take revenge on the Republican Party if he gets in office. His pandering to the religious right, his pandering to the Bush fans, his bomb bomb bomb Iran, all that was just to get his foot in the door. I can''t believe the guy really likes these people, especially since his disgust is usually written on his face. I''m not completely sure he really sold out. I think if he becomes President he''s going to go batsh*t for what happened to him in 2000. (Not to mention the fact that they stopped him from choosing Lieberman as his VP). Looking at the RNC, I really don''t get why Bush beat McCain in 2000 (oh wait, that illegitimate black baby). McCain is known for holding grudges. I can only imagine what will happen if he''s elected.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 9/5/2008 6:57:19 AM
Author: MoonWater
McCain''s revenge.

So, after watching McCain speak and talking with FI, I now wonder if he''ll take revenge on the Republican Party if he gets in office. His pandering to the religious right, his pandering to the Bush fans, his bomb bomb bomb Iran, all that was just to get his foot in the door. I can''t believe the guy really likes these people, especially since his disgust is usually written on his face. I''m not completely sure he really sold out. I think if he becomes President he''s going to go batsh*t for what happened to him in 2000. (Not to mention the fact that they stopped him from choosing Lieberman as his VP). Looking at the RNC, I really don''t get why Bush beat McCain in 2000 (oh wait, that illegitimate black baby). McCain is known for holding grudges. I can only imagine what will happen if he''s elected.

Oh please, let''s NOT. I find this whole election so oppressive already. The prospect of a man who''s trying to justify a war we lost by prolonging a war we''ve lost and maybe starting another war we can''t win, is enough to make me suicidal.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 9/5/2008 7:35:46 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 9/5/2008 6:57:19 AM

Author: MoonWater

McCain''s revenge.


So, after watching McCain speak and talking with FI, I now wonder if he''ll take revenge on the Republican Party if he gets in office. His pandering to the religious right, his pandering to the Bush fans, his bomb bomb bomb Iran, all that was just to get his foot in the door. I can''t believe the guy really likes these people, especially since his disgust is usually written on his face. I''m not completely sure he really sold out. I think if he becomes President he''s going to go batsh*t for what happened to him in 2000. (Not to mention the fact that they stopped him from choosing Lieberman as his VP). Looking at the RNC, I really don''t get why Bush beat McCain in 2000 (oh wait, that illegitimate black baby). McCain is known for holding grudges. I can only imagine what will happen if he''s elected.

Oh please, let''s NOT. I find this whole election so oppressive already. The prospect of a man who''s trying to justify a war we lost by prolonging a war we''ve lost and maybe starting another war we can''t win, is enough to make me suicidal.

Ditto. And listening to people who I typically think of as logical and intelligent defend the war, Bush and the Republican party is enough to push me over the edge. I feel like I''m living in some sort of alternate universe.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 9/5/2008 6:00:30 AM
Author: ksinger
The Resentment Strategy


I see this attitude on this very board. I see it in some my personal friends who are die-hard Republicans. (Yes, I do have friends, AND friends who are Republican. Amazing ain''t it??)

Great article, and so true! I love hearing Republicans talk about the Washington elite. Hilarious.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 9/5/2008 8:39:38 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 9/5/2008 6:00:30 AM
Author: ksinger
The Resentment Strategy


I see this attitude on this very board. I see it in some my personal friends who are die-hard Republicans. (Yes, I do have friends, AND friends who are Republican. Amazing ain''t it??)

Great article, and so true! I love hearing Republicans talk about the Washington elite. Hilarious.

Great article - le I was watching the RNC speeches, I kept thinking why they could do nothing except "diss" the Democrats. The democrats talked about the failures & corruption of the Bush administration, but had nothing but praise and respect for McCain in their speeches. I guess that they know that they have actual issues to run on, so they chose to speak about those. The Republicans reminded me of a bunch of jealous bulles, trying to talk down about others to make themselves look better. If you have to try to make someone else look bad to make yourself look good, that''s sad - didn''t we learn that lesson in 2nd grade? So transparent.

 

[Anna0499]

How about we steer this thread BACK to Palin and AWAY from just Bush/McCain/Republican bashing?

ETA: I did read that article and I have to disagree. Most of my Democrat friends think the Republicans are the ones who think they're better than the average...BOTH candidates have called each other elitist and NEITHER one is struggling for money, so let's not kid ourselves.

 

[trillionaire]

Jewish voters may be wary of Palin

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/5/2008 12:09:35 PM
Author: trillionaire
Jewish voters may be wary of Palin

Politically, I don't think it matters. Reps never expected to get the Jewish vote IMHO, and they certainly didn't have them at the front of their minds when Palin was chosen.

 

[meresal]

Date: 9/5/2008 12:09:35 PM
Author: trillionaire
Jewish voters may be wary of Palin

I stopped reading halfway thru. Palin can't control who her church decides to have to give a guest sermon. That article is rubbish, IMO. It has absolutely nothing to do with her views.

 

[MoonWater]

The Sarah Palin FAQ:

http://www.slate.com/id/2199362/

 

[HollyS]

Date: 9/5/2008 8:39:38 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 9/5/2008 6:00:30 AM
Author: ksinger
The Resentment Strategy


I see this attitude on this very board. I see it in some my personal friends who are die-hard Republicans. (Yes, I do have friends, AND friends who are Republican. Amazing ain''t it??)

Great article, and so true! I love hearing Republicans talk about the Washington elite. Hilarious.

The name Kennedy mean anything to you?

 

[FrekeChild]

Hey NEL, I just thought I''d let you know that as soon as BF heard that McCain had picked Palin he said, "Well McCain just lost."

Not exactly sure why he thinks that, because we haven''t talked about it, but now I''m kind of curious...

 

[Loves Vintage]

Date: 9/5/2008 12:21:48 PM
Author: meresal

Date: 9/5/2008 12:09:35 PM
Author: trillionaire
Jewish voters may be wary of Palin

I stopped reading halfway thru. Palin can''t control who her church decides to have to give a guest sermon. That article is rubbish, IMO. It has absolutely nothing to do with her views.

She belongs to a church where such a speaker is considered acceptable. There are many churches and many people who would not think such a speaker acceptable. It says something about the church and about those who attend this type of church.

This guy and the opinions that he spews are rubbish.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 9/5/2008 3:00:24 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Hey NEL, I just thought I'd let you know that as soon as BF heard that McCain had picked Palin he said, 'Well McCain just lost.'

Not exactly sure why he thinks that, because we haven't talked about it, but now I'm kind of curious...

Yeah, I'm curious, too. I only know a handful of libertarians and most of them are content with the choice and are now happy to vote for McCain (hiding behind the "lesser of two evils" excuse). I'm not one of them...while I actually like Palin, Republicans and Libertarians are just too different and McCain is too liberal. I now call my libertarian friends "fakertarians".

ETA: I shouldn't say he's too liberal, neo-conservatives are equally bad. I just mean his idea of a government's role is still too large.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 9/5/2008 3:25:53 PM
Author: Loves Vintage

She belongs to a church where such a speaker is considered acceptable. There are many churches and many people who would not think such a speaker acceptable. It says something about the church and about those who attend this type of church.

This guy and the opinions that he spews are rubbish.

HaHAHAHAHAAHAHhahahaha!

Hypocrisy at its FINEST.
LOVE it. Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Anyone?

 

[Loves Vintage]

Date: 9/5/2008 3:39:48 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 9/5/2008 3:25:53 PM
Author: Loves Vintage

She belongs to a church where such a speaker is considered acceptable. There are many churches and many people who would not think such a speaker acceptable. It says something about the church and about those who attend this type of church.

This guy and the opinions that he spews are rubbish.

HaHAHAHAHAAHAHhahahaha!

Hypocrisy at its FINEST.
LOVE it. Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Anyone?

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright. Not exactly hypocrisy. Let''s at least play by the same rules and judge everyone by their questionable religious affiliations the same, K?

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 9/5/2008 3:39:48 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 9/5/2008 3:25:53 PM
Author: Loves Vintage

She belongs to a church where such a speaker is considered acceptable. There are many churches and many people who would not think such a speaker acceptable. It says something about the church and about those who attend this type of church.

This guy and the opinions that he spews are rubbish.

HaHAHAHAHAAHAHhahahaha!

Hypocrisy at its FINEST.
LOVE it. Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Anyone?

I didn''t read anything where Love''s Vintage excused that either. Did you?

I hold everyone responsible for the company they choose to keep. Birds of a feather and all that...

 

[Loves Vintage]

Date: 9/5/2008 3:43:59 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 9/5/2008 3:39:48 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 9/5/2008 3:25:53 PM
Author: Loves Vintage

She belongs to a church where such a speaker is considered acceptable. There are many churches and many people who would not think such a speaker acceptable. It says something about the church and about those who attend this type of church.

This guy and the opinions that he spews are rubbish.

HaHAHAHAHAAHAHhahahaha!

Hypocrisy at its FINEST.
LOVE it. Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Anyone?

I didn''t read anything where Love''s Vintage excused that either. Did you?

I hold everyone responsible for the company they choose to keep. Birds of a feather and all that...

Exactly. Thank you, purrfect pear!

 

[meresal]

Date: 9/5/2008 3:25:53 PM
Author: Loves Vintage

She belongs to a church where such a speaker is considered acceptable. There are many churches and many people who would not think such a speaker acceptable. It says something about the church and about those who attend this type of church.

This guy and the opinions that he spews are rubbish.

I''m not sure if you have ever attended a Bible church, but I went to one regulary in High School becaue it was very close to my house. What it embodied was more of a complete understanding of faith in general, rather than focusing on one strict religion. I see (in Texas) that bible churches have lots of guest speakers, and it allows the congregation to become more "worldly" (for lack of a better term). You aren''t supposed to follow what every speaker says, heck maybe she didn''t even go that Sunday, but it allows you to learn. Not everyone is going to agree with their church 100% of the time, but realizing what you like and don''t like allows you grow as a person.

I have never heard of him, so I have no personal opinion, but I will be doing some research.

 

[luckystar112]

You''re right, loves vintage. I have no idea what your opinion is on Rev. Wright.
But I still think it''s hilarious that some people are going to think that this is a problem, when Obama''s book was dedicated to an anti-american racist.
That''s how it''s hypocritical.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/5/2008 3:49:05 PM
Author: luckystar112
You're right, loves vintage. I have no idea what your opinion is on Rev. Wright.
But I still think it's hilarious that some people are going to think that this is a problem, when Obama's book was dedicated to an anti-american racist.
That's how it's hypocritical.

Well the people that have a problem with this may very well be the same people that had a problem with Obama's choice of church and pastor. And really, anti-american racist? Let's not start that up again or I'll start copying and pasting stuff from past threads.