Female Mccain''s VP pick

[meresal]

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM
Author: ladypirate
I have to say, all debate about abortion rights and whatever else aside, that I don't particularly like Gov. Palin. She just rubs me the wrong way. I thought her speech, though well-delivered, was condescending and rude, especially given the fact that Obama has done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty. Granted, she didn't write the thing, but she still gave it.

She seems to me like someone who would smile to your face then stab you in the back...I just can't say that I trust her. It will be interesting to see the polls after the RNC.

Also, slightly off topic, but Lieberman's speech bugged the cr*p out of me...2 years ago he was talking about being Obama's mentor and how much he cared about him and now he's treating him like garbage. That man is such a slimeball.

I find your post very interesting, because this is one of the things that completely turned me off of Obama. His little cat fights with Hillary all througout the nomination process. He seemed very arrogant to me. I couldn't stand it. I'm not a democrat and never planned on voting for either of them. I really enjoy watching the debates, but these 2, I just couldn't stand it.

Also, I respect your opinion about Palin, but it gets me thinking. What if candidates made their speeches and then we were told who they are running with/for. Do you think that any animosity towards her speech may have come from the fact that you already knew that she was running with McCain?

I have a hard time believeing she or Biden are going to have much pull at all around the White House, so I'm not too worried about either of them.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM
Author: ladypirate
I have to say, all debate about abortion rights and whatever else aside, that I don''t particularly like Gov. Palin. She just rubs me the wrong way. I thought her speech, though well-delivered, was condescending and rude, especially given the fact that Obama has done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty. Granted, she didn''t write the thing, but she still gave it.


She seems to me like someone who would smile to your face then stab you in the back...I just can''t say that I trust her. It will be interesting to see the polls after the RNC.


Also, slightly off topic, but Lieberman''s speech bugged the cr*p out of me...2 years ago he was talking about being Obama''s mentor and how much he cared about him and now he''s treating him like garbage. That man is such a slimeball.

I agree 1000% on both accounts. She was vicious. I have a feeling it''s going to come back to bite her... hard. I''ve heard she''s into PORK, and yesterday, she was gleefully rolling around like a pig in s**t. I was so looking forward to an exciting and classy female candidate.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM
Author: ladypirate
She seems to me like someone who would smile to your face then stab you in the back...I just can''t say that I trust her.

I saw someone last night (or maybe I read it) call her "Tracy Flick all growed up" -- did you see the movie ELECTION? Sooooo apt!

I think there''s another Daily Show clip around about some Republicans'' overnight reversal on whether sexism exists in politics. Comparing what pundits & officials said about it NOT contributing to Hilary''s race vs. what they''re now claiming re: Palin. The link didn''t work for me but if someone else finds it I''d LOVE to see it!

 

[meresal]

Date: 9/4/2008 5:07:04 PM
Author: trillionaire

I agree 1000% on both accounts. She was vicious. I have a feeling it's going to come back to bite her... hard. I've heard she's into PORK, and yesterday, she was gleefully rolling around like a pig in s**t. I was so looking forward to an exciting and classy female candidate.

What does Pork have to do with anything... it's food? Am I missing the point here?

 

[ladypirate]

Date: 9/4/2008 5:08:13 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM

Author: ladypirate

She seems to me like someone who would smile to your face then stab you in the back...I just can''t say that I trust her.

I saw someone last night (or maybe I read it) call her ''Tracy Flick all growed up'' -- did you see the movie ELECTION? Sooooo apt!


I think there''s another Daily Show clip around about some Republicans'' overnight reversal on whether sexism exists in politics. Comparing what pundits & officials said about it NOT contributing to Hilary''s race vs. what they''re now claiming re: Palin. The link didn''t work for me but if someone else finds it I''d LOVE to see it!

It was from last night''s episode, so if you go on the Daily Show website, you should be able to watch it.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM
Author: ladypirate
I have to say, all debate about abortion rights and whatever else aside, that I don''t particularly like Gov. Palin. She just rubs me the wrong way. I thought her speech, though well-delivered, was condescending and rude, especially given the fact that Obama has done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty. Granted, she didn''t write the thing, but she still gave it.

She seems to me like someone who would smile to your face then stab you in the back...I just can''t say that I trust her. It will be interesting to see the polls after the RNC.

Also, slightly off topic, but Lieberman''s speech bugged the cr*p out of me...2 years ago he was talking about being Obama''s mentor and how much he cared about him and now he''s treating him like garbage. That man is such a slimeball.

He''s done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty?!!! Did you hear his speech? I''d say he did exactly the same thing, but with much less panache. And it wasn''t as funny, ''cause poking fun at his ego is a whole lot more hilarious than one of his many Bush-barbs thrown at McCain.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/4/2008 5:09:24 PM
Author: meresal

Date: 9/4/2008 5:07:04 PM
Author: trillionaire

I agree 1000% on both accounts. She was vicious. I have a feeling it's going to come back to bite her... hard. I've heard she's into PORK, and yesterday, she was gleefully rolling around like a pig in s**t. I was so looking forward to an exciting and classy female candidate.

What does Pork have to do with anything... it's food? Am I missing the point here?

I think it was a reference to her stance against pork barrel government spending...although that wouldn't make her "into" it so I don't get it. I think Palin (& her speechwriters) did what they had to do to answer to the critics. She had to show that she was a strong competitor to keep from being crushed underneath all of the criticism being thrown her way lately (not saying she shouldn't be criticized). Of course Obama supporters didn't like her speech, I wouldn't expect them to...

I also think Obama better take a strong stand at some point before November rolls around, but thats just MHO. Palin's speech and the speeches of the other candidates brought life to the RNC crowd & that's exactly what they needed it to do.

 

[meresal]

Repost: Last post on 17th page...

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM
Author: ladypirate
I have to say, all debate about abortion rights and whatever else aside, that I don't particularly like Gov. Palin. She just rubs me the wrong way. I thought her speech, though well-delivered, was condescending and rude, especially given the fact that Obama has done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty. Granted, she didn't write the thing, but she still gave it.

She seems to me like someone who would smile to your face then stab you in the back...I just can't say that I trust her. It will be interesting to see the polls after the RNC.

Also, slightly off topic, but Lieberman's speech bugged the cr*p out of me...2 years ago he was talking about being Obama's mentor and how much he cared about him and now he's treating him like garbage. That man is such a slimeball.

I find your post very interesting, because this is one of the things that completely turned me off of Obama. I think that he has definitely played dirty. His little cat fights with Hillary all througout the nomination process. He seems very arrogant to me. I can't stand it. I'm not a democrat and never planned on voting for either of them. I really enjoy watching the debates, but these 2, I just couldn't stand it.

Also, I respect your opinion about Palin, but it gets me thinking. What if candidates made their speeches and then we were told who they are running with/for. Do you think that any animosity towards her speech may have come from the fact that you already knew that she was running with McCain?

I have a hard time believeing she or Biden are going to have much pull at all around the White House, so I'm not too worried about either of them.

 

[meresal]

Date: 9/4/2008 5:14:56 PM
Author: IndyGirl22
I think it was a reference to her stance against pork barrel government spending...although that wouldn't make her 'into' it so I don't get it. I think Palin (& her speechwriters) did what they had to do to answer to the critics. She had to show that she was a strong competitor to keep from being crushed underneath all of the criticism being thrown her way lately (not saying she shouldn't be criticized). Of course Obama supporters didn't like her speech, I wouldn't expect them to...

I also think Obama better take a strong stand at some point before November rolls around, but thats just MHO. Palin's speech and the speeches of the other candidates brought life to the RNC crowd & that's exactly what they needed it to do.

Then wouldn't it be more suiting to say that she was rolling around in oil...

I only got to watch a little bit (will watch the rest on TIVO when I get home), but one thing that no one has commented on is her stance on drilling along Alaska shorelines. Not being suspended just becasue of hurricanes in the Gulf... anyone??? Or is everyone pretty much along party lines here too???

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 9/4/2008 3:34:12 PM
Author: decodelighted
OMG. LOVE this clip of O''Reilly''s changing stance on teen pregnancy. Heeelarious.

I love Jon Stewart...he always cracks me up.

 

[purrfectpear]

Sadly, Politician = Slimeball

Regardless of the party they belong to. They''re equal opportunity slimeballs across the board. You just don''t get that far without having sold at least a portion of your soul

 

[ladypirate]

Date: 9/4/2008 5:06:48 PM
Author: meresal

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM

Author: ladypirate

I have to say, all debate about abortion rights and whatever else aside, that I don''t particularly like Gov. Palin. She just rubs me the wrong way. I thought her speech, though well-delivered, was condescending and rude, especially given the fact that Obama has done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty. Granted, she didn''t write the thing, but she still gave it.


She seems to me like someone who would smile to your face then stab you in the back...I just can''t say that I trust her. It will be interesting to see the polls after the RNC.


Also, slightly off topic, but Lieberman''s speech bugged the cr*p out of me...2 years ago he was talking about being Obama''s mentor and how much he cared about him and now he''s treating him like garbage. That man is such a slimeball.

I find your post very interesting, because this is one of the things that completely turned me off of Obama. His little cat fights with Hillary all througout the nomination process. He seemed very arrogant to me. I couldn''t stand it. I''m not a democrat and never planned on voting for either of them. I really enjoy watching the debates, but these 2, I just couldn''t stand it.


Also, I respect your opinion about Palin, but it gets me thinking. What if candidates made their speeches and then we were told who they are running with/for. Do you think that any animosity towards her speech may have come from the fact that you already knew that she was running with McCain?


I have a hard time believeing she or Biden are going to have much pull at all around the White House, so I''m not too worried about either of them.

My comment was more related to how he''s reacted to all the scandal surrounding Gov. Palin than his interactions with Sen. Clinton. Even in that, though, I thought he conducted himself better than many would have. Throughout the primary election, it seemed that Obama was constantly on the defensive from attacks from the Clintons. While it is unusual for a democratic candidate to defend themselves (look at Gore & Kerry), I thought that he did so in a way that was eloquent and somewhat elevated. Perhaps you saw arrogance, but I saw someone who refused to wallow in mud as so many others around him were doing. If that makes him elitist, that saddens me.

As for whether I would feel the same about her if her attacks were directed at McCain, I would. Partly because I disagree with her politics, partly because she doesn''t tell the whole truth about her record (she claimed in that very speech that she opposed the bridge to nowhere, after running for governor with the promise to support that very bridge), and partly because I don''t like the way she talked about her opponent. She had the line about how he''s authored 2 memoirs but no major laws? In Obama''s firs year in the senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored an additional 427 bills. Several of these have become laws. Are they simply not major enough to be counted? This coming from someone with so little executive experience that a few months ago she didn''t even know what the Vice President DID.

You may be right about her not having much sway even if McCain wins the election, but McCain is an old man who could very well die in office. And I certainly don''t want someone like Palin as our Commander in Chief.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/4/2008 5:14:56 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/4/2008 5:09:24 PM

Author: meresal

Date: 9/4/2008 5:07:04 PM

Author: trillionaire


I agree 1000% on both accounts. She was vicious. I have a feeling it's going to come back to bite her... hard. I've heard she's into PORK, and yesterday, she was gleefully rolling around like a pig in s**t. I was so looking forward to an exciting and classy female candidate.

What does Pork have to do with anything... it's food? Am I missing the point here?

I think it was a reference to her stance against pork barrel government spending...although that wouldn't make her 'into' it so I don't get it. I think Palin (& her speechwriters) did what they had to do to answer to the critics. She had to show that she was a strong competitor to keep from being crushed underneath all of the criticism being thrown her way lately (not saying she shouldn't be criticized). Of course Obama supporters didn't like her speech, I wouldn't expect them to...

I also think Obama better take a strong stand at some point before November rolls around, but thats just MHO. Palin's speech and the speeches of the other candidates brought life to the RNC crowd & that's exactly what they needed it to do.

It was a reference to her being a huge beneficiary of earmarks (bridge to no where) and so called pork barrel spending. Her claim as a maverick and "anti" pork barrel reformer is not exactly fitting or well earned. -->

 

[ladypirate]

Date: 9/4/2008 5:13:50 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM

Author: ladypirate

I have to say, all debate about abortion rights and whatever else aside, that I don''t particularly like Gov. Palin. She just rubs me the wrong way. I thought her speech, though well-delivered, was condescending and rude, especially given the fact that Obama has done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty. Granted, she didn''t write the thing, but she still gave it.


She seems to me like someone who would smile to your face then stab you in the back...I just can''t say that I trust her. It will be interesting to see the polls after the RNC.


Also, slightly off topic, but Lieberman''s speech bugged the cr*p out of me...2 years ago he was talking about being Obama''s mentor and how much he cared about him and now he''s treating him like garbage. That man is such a slimeball.

He''s done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty?!!! Did you hear his speech? I''d say he did exactly the same thing, but with much less panache. And it wasn''t as funny, ''cause poking fun at his ego is a whole lot more hilarious than one of his many Bush-barbs thrown at McCain.

There''s a big difference between saying someone has no substance and is unfit to lead and saying that they are out of touch. Heck, even Pat Buchanan was falling all over himself praising Obama''s speech...I thought it was delightfully non-partisan.

 

[ladypirate]

Date: 9/4/2008 5:48:22 PM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 9/4/2008 5:14:56 PM

Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/4/2008 5:09:24 PM


Author: meresal

Date: 9/4/2008 5:07:04 PM


Author: trillionaire



I agree 1000% on both accounts. She was vicious. I have a feeling it''s going to come back to bite her... hard. I''ve heard she''s into PORK, and yesterday, she was gleefully rolling around like a pig in s**t. I was so looking forward to an exciting and classy female candidate.

What does Pork have to do with anything... it''s food? Am I missing the point here?

I think it was a reference to her stance against pork barrel government spending...although that wouldn''t make her ''into'' it so I don''t get it. I think Palin (& her speechwriters) did what they had to do to answer to the critics. She had to show that she was a strong competitor to keep from being crushed underneath all of the criticism being thrown her way lately (not saying she shouldn''t be criticized). Of course Obama supporters didn''t like her speech, I wouldn''t expect them to...

I also think Obama better take a strong stand at some point before November rolls around, but thats just MHO. Palin''s speech and the speeches of the other candidates brought life to the RNC crowd & that''s exactly what they needed it to do.

It was a reference to her being a huge beneficiary of earmarks (bridge to no where) and so called pork barrel spending. Her claim as a maverick and ''anti'' pork barrel reformer is not exactly fitting or well earned.

Exactly! For someone who claims to "walk the walk", she certainly seems to be hypocritical.

 

[trillionaire]

Factchecking Palin

I thought Palin's speech was quite good: well-written, well delivered. And, as I said earlier, I think she's a genuinely engaging person, and comes across very well. There were just a couple of problems. One, which I have seen people notice, but which I suspect won't be a big deal for a lot of voters, is that it had very little substance. The other, which the commenters I saw on TV for some reason neglected to mention, was that she told a lot of lies. A few that stood out for me, or that I spotted in my quick run-through of some blogs:

Palin: "To the families of special-needs children all across this country, I have a message: For years, you sought to make America a more welcoming place for your sons and daughters. I pledge to you that if we are elected, you will have a friend and advocate in the White House."



Sarah Palin might have changed her mind on this one recently. However, a comment here notes that Palin actually slashed funding for schools for special needs kids by 62%. Budgets: FY 2007 (pre-Palin), 2008, 2009 (all pdfs).

Palin: "As for my running mate, you can be certain that wherever he goes, and whoever is listening, John McCain is the same man."



Steve's list of McCain flip-flops is here. See for yourself whether constancy is, in fact, John McCain's middle name.

Palin: "I told the Congress "thanks, but no thanks," for that Bridge to Nowhere. If our state wanted a bridge, we'd build it ourselves."



Just to reiterate what others have said: Congress' requirement that funds be spent on that bridge (aka the 'earmark') were removed before Sarah Palin became governor. She was therefore in no position to tell Congress anything about the bridge, one way or the other. During her campaign, she said she supported funding for the bridge. Brad Plumer, citing the Anchorage Dialy News via Nexis:

"5. Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?

Yes. I would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now--while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist."



Later, she accepted the money -- now not restricted by an earmark -- and used it for other infrastructure projects. Here's her statement about why she wasn't building the bridge (also via Plumer.) Decide for yourselves what role a principled opposition to earmark funding plays in it. Hint: here's what residents of Ketchikan AK said when they heard her recent remarks:

"In the city Ketchikan, the planned site of the so-called "Bridge to Nowhere," political leaders of both parties said the claim was false and a betrayal of their community, because she had supported the bridge and the earmark for it secured by Alaska's Congressional delegation during her run for governor. (..)

"People are learning that she pandered to us by saying, I'm for this' ... and then when she found it was politically advantageous for her nationally, abruptly she starts using the very term that she said was insulting," Weinstein said."


Palin: "But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform - not even in the state senate."



Ha, ha, ha. I gave a rundown of Obama's accomplishments in the Senate here. They include the Lugar-Obama bill on nonproliferation, and an ethics reform package that the Washington Post called "the strongest ethics legislation to emerge from Congress yet." Ruth Marcus summarizes his record on reform:

"He helped pass a far-reaching ethics and campaign finance bill in the Illinois state Senate and made the issue a priority on arriving in Washington. Much to the displeasure of his colleagues, Obama promoted an outside commission to handle Senate ethics complaints. He co-authored the lobbying reform bill awaiting President Bush's signature and pushed -- again to the dismay of some colleagues -- to include a provision requiring lawmakers to report the names of their lobbyist-bundlers. He has co-sponsored bills to overhaul the presidential public financing system and public financing of Senate campaigns."



Not a single major law or reform, indeed.

And I wasn't aware that writing memoirs was something to be ashamed of. Obama has, in fact, written only one. McCain (with Mark Salter) has written at least two.

Palin: "America needs more energy ... our opponent is against producing it."



No -- he plans to develop a lot more energy than John McCain does. It's just that a lot of it is renewable, not carbon-based. Moreover, Obama hasn't skipped the last eight votes on renewable energy.

Palin: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes ... raise payroll taxes ... raise investment income taxes ... raise the death tax ... raise business taxes ... and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars. My sister Heather and her husband have just built a service station that's now opened for business - like millions of others who run small businesses. How are they going to be any better off if taxes go up?"



Well, it all depends whose taxes go up, doesn't it? If Heather and her husband make less than $250,000, their taxes will not go up. Most Americans will pay less in taxes under Obama's plan than under McCain's. So they might well be better off.

Those are just the falsehoods that leapt to mind. I'm sure there are others.

Whether or not Sarah Palin's engaging personality matters more than the fact that she tells lies depends a lot on the media, and whether they allow her to say that she opposed the Bridge to Nowhere, or that Obama has neer authored a major law or reform, without calling her on it. I hope they do. But I'm not holding my breath.

***
Source:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/04/politics/animal/main4414049.shtml

ETA: For more detail, try this one.

 

[ladypirate]

Thanks for posting that Trillionaire! I''m always surprised when people flat-out lie in speeches. Do they not think they''ll get caught?

 

[trillionaire]

More one Palin as a ''fiscal conservative''

PALIN: “Before I became governor of the great state of Alaska, I was mayor of my hometown.”

REALITY: UNDER PALIN, WASILLA GOVERNMENT SPENDING & DEBT SKYROCKETED.

Total Government Expenditures Increased 63 Percent Under Palin. In fiscal 2003—the last fiscal year Palin approved the budget—the total government expenditures of Wasilla, excluding capital outlays, were $7,046,325. In fiscal 1996—the year before Palin took control of the
budget—the expenditures were $4,317,947. The increase was 63 percent. [Wasilla Comprehensive Annual Financial Report 2003, Table 1]

Palin Supported Increasing Wasilla Sales Tax From 2 to 2.5 Percent to Build $14.7 Million Sports Center. “Wasilla residents have given the go ahead to building a new multiuse sports center in town and to raising the city sales tax to pay for it. With the final votes counted
Friday, residents voted 306 to 286 in favor of a measure to raise the city sales tax from 2 percent to 2.5 percent to pay the estimated $14.7 million cost of building the center…Mayor Sarah Palin, who supported the measure, said the tight vote will motivate city officials to keep a close eye on the budget for the center.” [Anchorage Daily News, 3/9/02]

Palin Left Behind Almost $19 Million In Long-Term Debt, Compared to None Before She Was Mayor. In fiscal 2003—the last fiscal year Palin approved the budget—the bonded long-term debt was $18,635,000. In fiscal 1996—the year before Palin took control of the budget—there was no general obligation debt. [Wasilla Comprehensive Annual Financial Report 2003, Table 10]

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/4/2008 6:11:55 PM
Author: ladypirate
Thanks for posting that Trillionaire! I''m always surprised when people flat-out lie in speeches. Do they not think they''ll get caught?

It is unbelievable to me! Honestly, when people lie with such ease, I worry that they are delusional and believe their own lies. This chick is SCARY!

And setting a fantastic example for her 5 kids. It''s okay to lie to get what you want.

These debates are going to be CRAZY!

 

[ladypirate]

Did you read the thing I posted a few pages back by a Wasilla resident? I found that enlightening and terrifying at the same time.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/4/2008 6:30:20 PM
Author: ladypirate
Did you read the thing I posted a few pages back by a Wasilla resident? I found that enlightening and terrifying at the same time.

I did and I concur about it being terrifying. What was the source? I have to have these docs ready to email on the fly

 

[ladypirate]

http://www.washingtonindependent.com/3671/the-reform-candidate

It''s in the comments section.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 9/4/2008 5:06:48 PM
Author: meresal

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM
Author: ladypirate
I have to say, all debate about abortion rights and whatever else aside, that I don''t particularly like Gov. Palin. She just rubs me the wrong way. I thought her speech, though well-delivered, was condescending and rude, especially given the fact that Obama has done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty. Granted, she didn''t write the thing, but she still gave it.

She seems to me like someone who would smile to your face then stab you in the back...I just can''t say that I trust her. It will be interesting to see the polls after the RNC.

Also, slightly off topic, but Lieberman''s speech bugged the cr*p out of me...2 years ago he was talking about being Obama''s mentor and how much he cared about him and now he''s treating him like garbage. That man is such a slimeball.

I find your post very interesting, because this is one of the things that completely turned me off of Obama. His little cat fights with Hillary all througout the nomination process. He seemed very arrogant to me. I couldn''t stand it. I''m not a democrat and never planned on voting for either of them. I really enjoy watching the debates, but these 2, I just couldn''t stand it.

Also, I respect your opinion about Palin, but it gets me thinking. What if candidates made their speeches and then we were told who they are running with/for. Do you think that any animosity towards her speech may have come from the fact that you already knew that she was running with McCain?

I have a hard time believeing she or Biden are going to have much pull at all around the White House, so I''m not too worried about either of them.

Are you serious? This is what people said about Dick Cheney aka puppet master numero uno before he was VP....look how that went. I think the last 8 years have demonstrated just how much "pull" the VP can and does have in office.

 

[meresal]

Trillionaire: Thanks for posting. That is all very interesting.

Hudson: I actually do believe that to an extent. I think both of the candidates were brought in strictly to gain or sustain votes for the presidency. I think they BOTH could have picked better running mates.

LadyPirate: Honestly, I don''t know enough about EITHER of these candidate''s to trust that either of them would be able to take over Commander In Chief.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM

Author: ladypirate

...I don''t particularly like Gov. Palin. She just rubs me the wrong way. I thought her speech, though well-delivered, was condescending and rude, especially given the fact that Obama has done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty.

The most e-mailed item in, "the New York Times" today is the Op-Ed piece by Gail Collins. It is highly amusing (which, no doubt, is why people are sending it to their friends and acquaintances) and really should be read in its entirety. I am including some excerpts here. The first one speaks to Ms. Palin''s rather aggressive character, comparing her to that other aggressive type, Rudy Guiliani. But I will let Ms. Collins speak for herself.

"Sarah Palin came out of hiding Wednesday night, and boy, she seemed ticked off.

''Here’s a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators: I’m not going to Washington to win their good opinion,'' said the moose-gutting, polar bear-trashing, aerobics-class-networking vice presidential nominee.

This was shortly after two very prominent Republican commentators got caught trashing Palin’s candidacy when they thought an MSNBC microphone had been turned off. There has been a lot of that going around this year, people. We can do better. In the years to come, let us teach our children that if you can’t say anything nice about somebody, step away from the voice enhancement equipment.

The speech was very well done. The Palin family — who we’re supposed to ignore, but they did sort of seem to be pretty much front and center — were adorable. And she was way more effective than the keynote speaker, Rudy Giuliani, at the red-meat-tossing detail. If you’re going to be really mean for an extended period of time, it’s better if you don’t look as if you want to lunge for the throat of the cameramen.

We had been waiting for a long time to hear from Palin, who went to the mattresses almost immediately after she was introduced to the nation by John McCain last week. What followed was a long line of unexpected revelations, from the fabled teenage pregnancy to my own personal favorite: the threat to fire the town librarian who refused to censor books.

Last night, Palin blamed the confusion and complaints on the news media, which hates her because she is ''not a member in good standing of the Washington elite.''

John McCain, the member of the Washington elite who picked her, was temporarily unavailable for comment.

(snip)

Reform Day was, of course, tailor-made for Palin, who is all about reform. Particularly, reforming the Republican party. Normally, in a democracy, the way you reform a party is by tossing it out of power until it learns its lesson and gets its act together. But the McCain-Palin plan is to reform Republicanism by keeping Republicans in control of the White House and most of the powerful posts in the federal government. That’ll show them.

(snip)

''Taxpayers have an advocate in Sarah Palin!'' said Giuliani in his keynote speech. Rudy had been extremely busy all day. In a stroke of genius, someone picked him to run around to the TV shows before Palin’s address to defend McCain for picking her after having met her only once. When he was mayor, Giuliani hired people who had been in his inner circle since about the third grade. And most of them were terrible! So you see, there are lots of ways to screw up a big hire besides not thinking about it until the last minute.

For all her great skills at presentation, many people, including some Republicans who think the microphone is off, believe that Sarah Palin is a terrible choice for running mate. But you have to remember who the other options were."

Deborah

 

[miraclesrule]

Lies are only Truth if one chooses to believe them. ::::shrugs::::

People are going to convince themselves that something is true regardless of facts. That is why hype and sensationalism is so effective. It easily seduces the ignorant mind. (Whether that is because the mind is uneducated or lazy or both...

)


ETA: Another Jon Stewart fan here

Because he is an equal opportunity satirist.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/4/2008 5:44:44 PM
Author: ladypirate

Date: 9/4/2008 5:06:48 PM

Author: meresal

Date: 9/4/2008 4:55:37 PM


Author: ladypirate


I have to say, all debate about abortion rights and whatever else aside, that I don''t particularly like Gov. Palin. She just rubs me the wrong way. I thought her speech, though well-delivered, was condescending and rude, especially given the fact that Obama has done an admirable job of NOT playing dirty. Granted, she didn''t write the thing, but she still gave it.



She seems to me like someone who would smile to your face then stab you in the back...I just can''t say that I trust her. It will be interesting to see the polls after the RNC.



Also, slightly off topic, but Lieberman''s speech bugged the cr*p out of me...2 years ago he was talking about being Obama''s mentor and how much he cared about him and now he''s treating him like garbage. That man is such a slimeball.

I find your post very interesting, because this is one of the things that completely turned me off of Obama. His little cat fights with Hillary all througout the nomination process. He seemed very arrogant to me. I couldn''t stand it. I''m not a democrat and never planned on voting for either of them. I really enjoy watching the debates, but these 2, I just couldn''t stand it.



Also, I respect your opinion about Palin, but it gets me thinking. What if candidates made their speeches and then we were told who they are running with/for. Do you think that any animosity towards her speech may have come from the fact that you already knew that she was running with McCain?



I have a hard time believeing she or Biden are going to have much pull at all around the White House, so I''m not too worried about either of them.

My comment was more related to how he''s reacted to all the scandal surrounding Gov. Palin than his interactions with Sen. Clinton. Even in that, though, I thought he conducted himself better than many would have. Throughout the primary election, it seemed that Obama was constantly on the defensive from attacks from the Clintons. While it is unusual for a democratic candidate to defend themselves (look at Gore & Kerry), I thought that he did so in a way that was eloquent and somewhat elevated. Perhaps you saw arrogance, but I saw someone who refused to wallow in mud as so many others around him were doing. If that makes him elitist, that saddens me.


As for whether I would feel the same about her if her attacks were directed at McCain, I would. Partly because I disagree with her politics, partly because she doesn''t tell the whole truth about her record (she claimed in that very speech that she opposed the bridge to nowhere, after running for governor with the promise to support that very bridge), and partly because I don''t like the way she talked about her opponent. She had the line about how he''s authored 2 memoirs but no major laws? In Obama''s firs year in the senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored an additional 427 bills. Several of these have become laws. Are they simply not major enough to be counted? This coming from someone with so little executive experience that a few months ago she didn''t even know what the Vice President DID.


You may be right about her not having much sway even if McCain wins the election, but McCain is an old man who could very well die in office. And I certainly don''t want someone like Palin as our Commander in Chief.

I just got back and have yet to read through everything but I must give a standing ovation to you for this post. I only caught part of Palin''s speech and I could not believe how she blatantly lied. She''s going to make it soooo easy to attack her. I don''t care if she didn''t write the speech, she at least should have had it fact checked before giving it. I cringed like a mf when she said the stuff in bold. Oh well, so much for liking her.

 

[Anna0499]

I think it''s funny when people act like none of the Dems attacked anyone or lied/flipflopped in their speeches...ALL politicians lie or exaggerate in their speeches & ALL politicians "play dirty." It is the nature of the politics we have created. The mere fact that Biden is Obama''s VP shows a HUGE inconsistency given his history but no one brings that up. Anyway, I agree with miraclesrule that, "That is why hype and sensationalism is so effective. It easily seduces the ignorant mind." However, I think we mean to apply it to different candidates.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/4/2008 9:37:17 PM
Author: IndyGirl22
I think it's funny when people act like none of the Dems attacked anyone or lied/flipflopped in their speeches...ALL politicians lie or exaggerate in their speeches & ALL politicians 'play dirty.' It is the nature of the politics we have created. The mere fact that Biden is Obama's VP shows a HUGE inconsistency given his history but no one brings that up. Anyway, I agree with miraclesrule that, 'That is why hype and sensationalism is so effective. It easily seduces the ignorant mind.' However, I think we mean to apply it to different candidates.

Actually, I like to fact check all of the candidates. By nature of being a politicians, they are hard to trust, and I abhor being lied to. I'm not expecting everyone to be right 100% of the time, and I know that not everyone writes their own speeches, but her lies were BLATANT, intentional and manipulative. I've known about this woman for less then a week and could spot her lies (some of them) so obviously. It was a rookie mistake to do what she did last night, and she is going to pay for it I suspect.

As for Obama/Biden, there are other threads to discuss them, I thought we were solely focusing on the lady of the hour. I've been trying very hard to stay on topic

ETA: I encourage every good citizen to check the facts here.

Obama's speech analysis
Palin's speech analysis

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/4/2008 9:58:46 PM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 9/4/2008 9:37:17 PM
Author: IndyGirl22
I think it's funny when people act like none of the Dems attacked anyone or lied/flipflopped in their speeches...ALL politicians lie or exaggerate in their speeches & ALL politicians 'play dirty.' It is the nature of the politics we have created. The mere fact that Biden is Obama's VP shows a HUGE inconsistency given his history but no one brings that up. Anyway, I agree with miraclesrule that, 'That is why hype and sensationalism is so effective. It easily seduces the ignorant mind.' However, I think we mean to apply it to different candidates.

Actually, I like to fact check all of the candidates. By nature of being a politicians, they are hard to trust, and I abhor being lied to. I'm not expecting everyone to be right 100% of the time, and I know that not everyone writes their own speeches, but her lies were BLATANT, intentional and manipulative. I've known about this woman for less then a week and could spot her lies (some of them) so obviously. It was a rookie mistake to do what she did last night, and she is going to pay for it I suspect.

As for Obama/Biden, there are other threads to discuss them, I thought we were solely focusing on the lady of the hour. I've been trying very hard to stay on topic

ETA: I encourage every good citizen to check the facts here.

Obama's speech analysis
Palin's speech analysis

Oh I know there are Biden/Obama threads, but this one has pretty much turned into an Obama supporter thread, so I didn't think my post was inappropriate. Sorry. I've learned to watch speeches for entertainment, I don't watch them seeking the truth because honestly, I won't find it from ANY politician. I've learned that speeches are meant to convey and strike up emotion...I don't listen to Palin's speeches to get facts about Obama just like I don't listen to Biden's speeches to get facts about McCain. Thanks for posting those links, I've been to that website frequently this election year and the speech analyses just proved my point. Watching McCain now...