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Emerald help

ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
Okay, so I received a verbal report from the AGL. They told me that the emerald has minor amounts of modern enhancement. When I enquired more about this, they said it means it is more than just oil in the emerald: that it has a minor amount of polymer or resin. They couldn’t tell me much more, other than they think it’s pretty standard at least in that they see it all the time. I asked if it could deteriorate over time and they said no, as long as I looked after the stone, didn’t expose it to strong heat, etc, it should be fine. Thoughts? Should I consider returning the emerald? I was sold it on the basis it was insignificant oil only. I thought enhancements other than oil were bad, but perhaps some modern treatments are okay? Would that include polymer or resin?
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,283
I think cedar wood oil is a type of resin too. They call them “oils,” but not really. Can you tell us how much you paid? If not, I understand.
 

ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
I think cedar wood oil is a type of resin too. They call them “oils,” but not really. Can you tell us how much you paid? If not, I understand.
Thanks so much for your help, T L. I paid $8,100 for 3.44ct.

She didn’t seem to be able to say much about the type of resin, but when I expressed concern she said it was minor and suggested it was in lieu of traditional treatment, which she said is oil. I thought she meant resin was being used as a filler but having done some quick online reading, I think AGL classes emeralds with infills as “moderate”.
 

ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
I called the AGL again and got a little more detail. They differ in the cert between “traditional” and “modern” treatments. “Traditional” is traditional oiling. They said it’s often not as stable as more modern methods. The modern methods are doing the same thing as the traditional oil, just with a modern material like a resin or polymer. The stability index on whatever my treatment is was very good. It seems the vendor was correct in labelling the treatment of the stone: “minor”, it’s just whatever was used is a modern treatment eg polymer, resin rather than the traditional oil. I’m not sure if that in itself has an impact on price
 

ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
For that quality, huge size and beauty, I think $8100 is a very good price. Did you get a full prestige report? What did they say about the color?

My jeweler just came back from Columbia. He said emerald prices were sky high for even inferior material.
I have asked for a prestige ID report, which is just ID and enhancement. The prestige grading report (which is the one that includes colour, I think?) was almost three and a half times the price! Since I loved the colour in person, I wasn't sure what the AGL colour grading would add for me. I'm not planning on selling the stone. Given this, do you think it's worthwhile? The GRS certification that came with the emerald stated colour as "vivid green" but since I liked the colour in person, I didn't feel like I needed the AGL to also describe the colour to me. Unless there's something I am missing about the colour grading that is important for insurance or appraisal purposes?

Wow, I wonder what is causing the demand to suddenly spike. I wonder if emeralds are going the way of sapphires: to have huge price increases over the next few years?

Also, thank you for all of your help through this process, @T L. You and the other PS'ers who have weighed in on my threads have such knowledge ad experience and are so kind to share it with others on this forum.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,283
No, don’t bother with the full grading report. I think it’s a beautiful stone, and you love it, and the price is very reasonable for the quality.

All fine gems are spiking in price, mostly due to the Asian markets, that’s my guess anyways.

You’re very welcome, but we want more pics!!!
 

ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
No, don’t bother with the full grading report. I think it’s a beautiful stone, and you love it, and the price is very reasonable for the quality.

All fine gems are spiking in price, mostly due to the Asian markets, that’s my guess anyways.

You’re very welcome, but we want more pics!!!
Haha, I will oblige!
 

Rad_Fan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
2,477
...I think it’s a beautiful stone, and you love it, and the price is very reasonable for the quality...but we want more pics!!!
+1 and if AGL said the treatment is very good on stability index, enjoy it!

BTW, did BC charge you shipping fee on top of the price?
 

ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
+1 and if AGL said the treatment is very good on stability index, enjoy it!

BTW, did BC charge you shipping fee on top of the price?
Thank you!!

No, our arrangement was that shipping + insurance was included in the purchase price, however, if I was to return the stone for any reason (change of mind or if the AGL report was inconsistent with the GRS report they gave me/their description of the emerald) I would pay for return shipping and any import taxes. I did negotiate the price from what I was originally quoted.
 

ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
@ordinaryrainbow, any updates? Just curious.
I decided to keep the stone, and she is currently off being set into a three-stone ring. Very exciting! I will share photos when completed.

I did some more reading, and decided that the fact the grading said the treatment was insignificant/minor, and stable, was enough for me. I also had a good chat to the vendor about the treatment process - they had a lot of interesting information about the ins and outs of how the treatment was done, but in a nutshell, it was treated with a synthetic oil, not a resin, and not Excel (although they did say Excel is a very good treatment alternative). They said they preferred using synthetic oil to natural oil, because it is longer lasting than cedar wood oil. They said the treatment should last permanent if well taken care of, but I could look into re-oiling in 5-7 years time if I thought the stone needed it.
 

Rad_Fan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
2,477
Happy for you. I read from your other thread that you are working with SK on a 3-stone ring. Going to be stunning!

If you decide to have it re-oiled in the future, have you asked SK if it needs to be taken out of the setting to do so? It's just something I often wondering myself. I also scare of pairing delicate emerald with diamonds. I like clean looking diamonds but don't think I could clean emerald the same way, so what to do?
 
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ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
@Rad_Fan Thanks!! I am very excited.

I hadn't thought about that (or how difficult it would be to take the stone out and then re-set it if it needs a re-oil). I will ask SK next time I speak with him.

I had wondered about the cleaning too. The vendor told me not to put the stone into an ultrasonic (which I wouldn't do anyway). I will ask SK how he recommends cleaning the ring, but I had assumed that soaking it in jewellery cleaner and brushing with a soft brush would be okay. There are jewellery cleaners that advertise as being safe for emeralds.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,283
I just use very warm water and a soft tooth brush. You have to be really careful of cleaners with emeralds. To be honest, they’re a hazy looking gem and human oils don’t hurt their appearance like they do sparkly gems like diamonds.

Avoid steam cleaners too. Jewelers overuse those things, like US cleaners.
 

Rad_Fan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
2,477
Would you mind sharing how you started contacting vendors that do not list prices? Did you see what you like on the IG and DMed them...sounds like a silly question, I know. I am old school and like to see prices and store policy clearly listed. IG vendors like BG don't list $ and certain inventories offered by PS vendors are also "priceless". I hesitate in contacting them due to the lack of transparency.

You have shared that BG has been good in communication, did they sent you as many pictures/videos as you requested?

I also didn't see any sort of policies on their IG acct, what made you think that they would honor their words in terms of return/refund if needed? Does IG has some sort of seller/buyer protection policy like that of eBay? In my experience, eBay is quite protected of the buyers. I just have no idea how it works on IG when sellers offer limited details up front and there isn't a regulator in between 2 parties.

Thanks for your insights in advance.
 
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ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
Would you mind sharing how you started contacting vendors that do not list prices? Did you see what you like on the IG and DMed them...sounds like a silly question, I know. I am old school and like to see prices and store policy clearly listed. IG vendors like BG don't list $ and certain inventories offered by PS vendors are also "priceless". I hesitate in contacting them due to the lack of transparency.

You have shared that BG has been good in communication, did they sent you as many pictures/videos as you requested?

I also didn't see any sort of policies on their IG acct, what made you think that they would honor their words in terms of return/refund if needed? Does IG has some sort of seller/buyer protection policy like that of eBay? In my experience, eBay is quite protected of the buyers. I just have no idea how it works on IG when sellers offer limited details up front and there isn't a regulator in between 2 parties.

Thanks for your insights in advance.
First, I looked at a lot of emeralds online with prices listed, including those in the inventory of preferred PS vendors, to get a sense of appropriate per carat prices for different qualities and sizes. Then, once I had a reasonable sense of what size emerald was within my budget at the quality I wanted, I contacted a couple of vendors who didn't list prices. I either asked what they had within my budget for the specs I wanted (I kept it pretty general, just to see what they had available), or asked for the particular price of a stone I liked the look of. Mainly, I was trying to get a sense of what size I could afford for the quality I wanted, but I also got an idea as I went along as to whether a particular emerald had a high or fair per carat price for the quality. I like to think I also would have recognised a price that was just too low to be true (not that anyone gave me such a price.) When doing this, I approached a couple of vendors on instagram and with online stores, but I didn't go down the etsy or eBay route at all. I found all vendors I approached to be prompt and open in giving me prices (except where they had sold the stone in question), so I wouldn't worry about hesitating in contacting a vendor to find out a price.

Yes, BG were very patient with me and shared many pictures and videos. Including some that I didn't specifically ask for (like 10x zoom: maybe others know to ask for this but I didn't). They were also patient in showing me comparison shots between the emerald I was considering and other emeralds, so I could see relative colour, what a slightly larger or smaller stone at the same price would look like, etc. The only thing I asked for that they didn't provide was a picture in direct sunshine. They said they could take a picture in natural light immediately inside their store entrance, but they couldn't take the emerald outside the store for insurance reasons (which made sense to me).

I don't know of any seller/buyer protection on Instagram. I don't know if Instagram has a way to transfer money to a vendor like eBay does, in which case it wouldn't make sense for Instagram to have a buyer protection policy. I requested we conduct the transaction through PayPal to get a third party in between, and they were amenable. Other due diligence I did was to check they in fact had a registered business address, website and shopfront (they did), check online reviews, asked BG for their return policy in writing and also asked them to agree to my additional request regarding AGL certification in writing (which they did). I could also see that they were "followed" by other vendors, exhibited at trade shows, etc. All of which got me comfortable that they were a genuine seller.

I hope that helps!
 

Rad_Fan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
2,477
Thanks for taking time to answer my questions. You must have done loads of work for this project. I don't recall seeing many 3ct+ emeralds available for sale by PS vendors, much less than what I found on eBay (AGL or GIA certed).

I googled BG and found that they do have a site, but this ? Glad to hear they agreed to honor return. Paying by PP is a good idea. I thought that they required you to pay with bank wire. With the recent ED saga...unsettling!
 

Rad_Fan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
2,477
@Rad_Fan Oh, I also asked for a picture of the GRS cert that came with the emerald, and checked the QR code on the GRS website. If I wasn't comfortable, I would also have considered suggesting an escrow arrangement, but I didn't end up doing that.
Great tip! I am familiar with GIA online check but didn't know about GRS.
 

ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
@Rad_Fan You’re right, there aren’t as many. I actually started looking sub-3 carats to get an initial sense of the market, since there’s just more inventory in smaller sizes. Then I looked at larger sizes once I knew what kind of quality I wanted. James Allen, Leibish and Africa Gems all had some larger emeralds when I was looking and were a useful resource. As did a company called “natural emerald company”, which I think is part of the natural sapphire company (I wasn’t thinking of purchasing from them, just getting a sense of what was out there.). Also helpful were vendors that sold second-hand set rings: I know they’re marked up but it still helped me to see relative prices on 1st dibs, etc.

Oh wow, that reads more like a return policy for custom ring design! It wasn’t the policy for change of mind that was given to me. Oh yeah, I wouldn’t pay with wire transfer! That ED story is so unsettling. I feel for people who saved up for an engagement stone only have their money taken and no stone delivered...
 

Rad_Fan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
2,477
"... wouldn't worry about hesitating in contacting a vendor to find out a price."

Will keep that in mind! ;)2 Can't wait to see your finished ring!

What is your next "target"? RED since you already have a blue? :lol:
 

ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
"... wouldn't worry about hesitating in contacting a vendor to find out a price."

Will keep that in mind! ;)2 Can't wait to see your finished ring!

What is your next "target"? RED since you already have a blue? :lol:
Funny you should ask, as I was actually talking to my husband about that the other day! I actually don’t like rubies at all (I’ve seen too many terrible 80s ruby diamond cluster engagement rings I think). Which is at least good for my wallet! But my husband had been jokingly encouraging me to think about a ruby if we have a third child. (This emerald will ultimately be a gift for my second child, who is due fairly soon, in the same way my sapphire ring was something I got when I was pregnant with my daughter, and which I intend to be hers one day.) My husband - who is a third child himself - has told me I can’t get two lovely rings for our first and second children and not get something similar for the third (if we have a third). So who knows? Maybe a yellow diamond??

Anyway, that’s a long way off. Next up: I need to get through the rest of this pregnancy and, fingers’ crossed, birth a healthy little bub!
 

Rad_Fan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
2,477
Congratulations and wish you well! Don't get me started on FYD! :devil: I've decided that nothing lower than FIY would do on my skin tone.
 

t86

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
103
Ordinary rainbow, how did your ring turn out? Can you post pictures? I'm dying to see because I myself have been influenced by Crazy Rich Asians to buy a three-stone emerald ring. My emerald's at AGL right now! Was also thinking of contacting Steven Kirsch to make the ring, as he made my engagement ring.
 

ordinaryrainbow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
195
Ordinary rainbow, how did your ring turn out? Can you post pictures? I'm dying to see because I myself have been influenced by Crazy Rich Asians to buy a three-stone emerald ring. My emerald's at AGL right now! Was also thinking of contacting Steven Kirsch to make the ring, as he made my engagement ring.
Hi! Sorry I’m only seeing this now! The ring is in the bank, which is closed due to covid. Let
me see if I can find some old pictures from when I first received it. In the meantime, if you take a look at Steven’s Instagram, you’ll see a short video of the ring.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
3,976
8771B970-351A-4123-9AA2-067FE13AEDD0.jpeg 5FE3AB4D-3EB7-4B65-B03B-07AE847606DC.jpeg @t86 I couldn’t find any outdoor photos, but here are some indoor photos I found.

I asked Steven to make the prongs very fine and for minimal metal to be visible from the top, and I am thrilled with the result.
:kiss2: :kiss2: :kiss2:
It looks perfect to me.
 
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