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Education on emeralds

Discussion in 'Colored Gemstones' started by Atwater, May 12, 2019.

  1. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » May 27, 2019
    1DE1359D-DD35-4462-95A9-C9158188C253.jpeg 557F3124-2965-45B2-97D2-C2B601D3A0DF.jpeg
    Guess which one is the tsavorite and which is the emerald. One of these is a photo by George. See the blue?
     
  2. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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  3. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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  4. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » May 27, 2019
    Yes! It’s usually a piece of natural emerald over colorless beryl. A long long time ago, but not in a galaxy far away, I bought an emerald that was too good to be true at a gem show. I took it to a gemologist the next day and they easily confirmed it was a doublet. Fortunately, I returned it the next day. That poor guy in the link I provided spent thousands on that doublet.
     
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  5. Rad_Fan
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Rad_Fan » May 27, 2019
    This one? Those nails are give-away! :mrgreen2:
     
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  6. Rad_Fan
    Brilliant_Rock

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  7. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » May 27, 2019

    See, things like this make me so nervous about buying anything. Stick to sellers you know!!
     
  8. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » May 27, 2019
    Well, yes, but sometimes it’s hard to find that one gem you are searching for, and you need to look around. That’s why highly reputable and verifiable lab reports are so important.
     
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  9. Rad_Fan
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Rad_Fan » May 27, 2019
    I find that the searching part of the journey is part of the fun.
     
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  10. mellowyellowgirl
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mellowyellowgirl » May 27, 2019
    I hear ya. But sometimes I take a gamble when there are no other options.

    I was thinking the other day how insane it sounds that I send all these funds (direct transfer no PayPal) to a personal account in China for jade. Definitely not smart by any estimation and sounds plain crazy and stupid but it's worked out and I've got some fantastic pieces that I simply can't get my hands on elsewhere.
     
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  11. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Atwater » May 31, 2019
    As I find it difficult to shop online for emeralds, I contacted George at Muzoemeralds and we will meet late June when he visits US. I hope I will find my dream emerald from his inventory. Meanwhile I will do my homework and learn! Any suggestions/advices are greatly appreciated!
     
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  12. Rad_Fan
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Rad_Fan » Jun 1, 2019
    :dance:... such fun! Imagining finally get to see his emeralds in person! Please make sure to share pictures! So excited for you!.
     
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  13. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Atwater » Jun 11, 2019 at 2:34 AM
    I've been communicating with George (@Muzoemeralds). So far, he has shown me two emeralds. The first one is a 1.73ct muzo emerald ($5500/ct), really nice color and clarity according to George; minor oil. The video was taken in natural indirect light; he says this is actually the worst the stone would look. Since I cannot post videos, the below are taken from the video.
    sq4.JPG sq2.JPG
     
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  14. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Atwater » Jun 11, 2019 at 2:47 AM
    The second one is a 2.2ct Chivor emerald, minor oil, also at $5500/ct. George says it is also has very nice color; it is cleaner than the 1.73 muzo and also has more blue in it. The price (/ct) is the same because of the two mines, Muzo is usually more expensive. I think this Chivor is lighter than the 1.73 Muzo; with my very limited experience, I think I may like the darker-tone muzo better once I see it in person, but I still could not tell based on videos.
    chivor1.JPG chivor3.JPG chivor4.JPG chivor5.JPG
     
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  15. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Atwater » Jun 11, 2019 at 2:55 AM
    Oh, I forgot to mention: the 1.73ct muzo is 7.88x7.26x4.57; the 2.2ct chivor is 8.2x7x4.2. I am puzzled why the face sizes do not differ much especially given that the muzo is deeper.
     
    


    


  16. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Atwater » Jun 11, 2019 at 2:59 AM
    One question I have is about the lab report. George says most stones have local certificate, which may not matter that much outside of Columbia. He can get GRS (GemResearch Swisslab) lab report if I prefer; he says GRS is just easier to deal with and they are quite reliable for emeralds. I searched here and it seems GRS is reputable. So, is GRS report acceptable?
     
  17. Rad_Fan
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Rad_Fan » Jun 11, 2019 at 3:05 AM
    Could he picture or video both emeralds next to each other for you to better compare?
     
  18. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Atwater » Jun 11, 2019 at 3:06 AM
    George says he will bring more to show me; the ones he shows me are to help him narrow down what I prefer. I did tell him my preference is medium to medium dark tone, slightly bluish green, good sheen and glow, and minor oil. I am flexible with shapes as long as the cut is not too bad (no window, etc).

    What else do you think I should mention? Please also let me know what you think about the two emeralds. Many thanks!
     
  19. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Atwater » Jun 11, 2019 at 3:07 AM
    That is a great idea. I will ask him. Thank you!
     
  20. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » Jun 11, 2019 at 3:13 AM
    I don’t like how GRS grades color, but I trust them for determining treatment, and origin, which is very important for emeralds.
     
  21. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » Jun 11, 2019 at 3:18 AM
    It would be nice to see the stones side by side, and on a white background.
     
  22. Nick_G
    Rough_Rock

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    by Nick_G » Jun 11, 2019 at 3:21 AM
    Personally I prefer the look of the second one you posted there. It's always difficult to tell from a picture but on my monitor the colour looks nicer to me, with that hint of blue.
     
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  23. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » Jun 11, 2019 at 3:26 AM
    From the photos, I suspect the top one is better color. The bottom one is very nice though. I wouldn’t kick either of them out on a cold night! Lol!
     
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  24. ordinaryrainbow
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ordinaryrainbow » Jun 11, 2019 at 6:47 AM
    Hi Atwater. I recently sent a GRS certified emerald to the AGL for a second lab report. The AGL was able to distinguish between traditional (ie oil only) treatment and modern treatment, whereas the GRS report did not do this. The GRS report graded the treatment amount as “insignificant” whereas the AGL graded it “minor” (their certificate does have an insignificant category, which is less than minor). So, similar results, but the AGL grading was stricter and could broadly determined treatment type.
     
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  25. Sungura
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Sungura » Jun 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM
    Both emeralds look beautiful. I’m so pleased you will see both in person

    Do ask George about the type of treatment. I believe the Colombian lab can distinguish the treatments, but is doesn’t have the international recognition. I.e what confidence does he have that an AGL report will show oil only vs a synthetic?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019 at 8:24 AM
  26. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » Jun 11, 2019 at 9:17 AM
    The Columbian lab called the super pale Finewater green beryl, an emerald. Gary provided no other lab report. I suspect that lab’s standards aren’t very high, but who knows. Obviously AGL is the best and strictest colored gem lab, so some vendors shy away from it
     
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  27. FinewaterGems
    Rough_Rock
    Trade

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    by FinewaterGems » Jun 11, 2019 at 12:14 PM
    CDTEC GemLab is the premier gemological laboratory in Colombia and is highly regarded as both a lab and research facility. They employ trained gemologists, use modern technology, perform research on emerald treatments, and organize emerald research conferences. I personally know the owner so I visited the lab last year, met the gemologists, saw their testing and photo equipment, so I have no doubt that they know how to identify an emerald. They see more emeralds in a week than any of us can hope to see in a lifetime!
     
  28. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by T L » Jun 11, 2019 at 1:02 PM
    It would be it interesting to see what one of these labs say about your stone Gary.

    SSEF
    AGL
    GRS
    GIA

    All of these are highly respected labs and the four top labs in the world, but even among them, there are different levels of strict standards.

    I don’t know if all of them would come back with the emerald designation for your stone. I meant no offense to that lab, as I’m sure they’re highly respected. However, they may not distinguish between vanadium or green beryl vs emerald. The GIA used to not as well, but they changed their criteria. In any case, it’s a pretty stone, and I hope you sell it.
     
  29. FinewaterGems
    Rough_Rock
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    by FinewaterGems » Jun 11, 2019 at 2:41 PM
    Rest assured that CDTEC is well aware of the difference between green beryl and emerald.

    Even the big labs have been known to make mistakes. I once sent a very rare pink to green vanadium sapphire to AGL and they totally missed the fact that it had a strong color change, calling it only "brownish pink". There have been others, but it doesn't pay to send stones back to the labs for a second opinion. They will stick to their original opinion so that they don't appear "wishy-washy".
     
  30. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by AV_ » Jun 11, 2019 at 2:48 PM
    The 1.73 is seriously beautiful...
     

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