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Drunk words...Sober Thoughts?

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Date: 3/23/2009 3:26:16 PM
Author: Rock_of_Love
{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}} to you, pretty!!!


I can tell how conflicted you are. And, I definitely hear ya about the ''last part.'' It is scary. Red flag? Yes. Is it enough to get rid of him? Who knows. Only you, him...maybe your therapist.


That is the only reason I was saying what I did above. Only you know what is really going on here. I do stand by what I say...and I''m not encouraging you to stay if this is truly an abusive situation. The murder comment could definitely be a huge sign that it is, or will be. BUT, we shouldn''t convict the guy for *one* mistake when he was clearly off his rocker. I''m just saying that *I* don''t know him...only pretty does. She knows him better than anyone and will be able to put this in perspective.

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I just don''t understand this at all. How would it be "convicting" him if prettyinpink chooses not to stay? My hope is that she''d leave because she deserves better and he would get some help which could only be good for him.

Honestly what kind of life are we imagining here? I''m horrified to think of this girl trying to give this guy a second chance. Is she supposed to walk on eggshells, checking constantly to see if this happens again? What if it happens in 5 years, or 10? Life is too short.
 
PrettyinPink, I really sympathise with you. This is a horrible situation to be in. Your SO has said things beyond awful but I don''t think you are weak to forgive him. I completely agree with what the other ladies have said about the behaviour being unacceptable but I also see it from your side that you love him and he never behaves like that usually.

The thing that worries me is that I always say that a person says how they relly feel when they are drunk, I feel that perhaps your SO isn''t happy and was maybe trying to end things while drunk so it was not as painful as sober. Maybe the next day he had cold feet and regretted the awful things he had said. However, the extent of his abusive messages really does lead me to believe that he was trying to push you into ending things.

He sounds to be to be very depressed with life in general and sounds like he really does need to get help. Maybe it would be best if you had a break until he sought some help? I think he has a LOT of making up to do and being drunk is really not an excuse for the things that he said.
 
once, about a year into our relationship, SO got really drunk. he was incredibly stressed out, angry at someone else, but he said one angry thing to me. (eta: nothing, nothing at all like what your SO said to you.) i walked out that night.

i've been in abusive relationships before, and this was a horrible sign for me.

we put our relationship on hold until he got help and we, as a couple, got help. he was not at all reluctant, and to me this was a very good sign.

these days he never has more than one drink, and has even confronted his dad about his problem with alcohol. i could not be with him if he had not been so enthusiastic about changing. he has never done anything remotely close again, and is amazing about respecting me. he would not get another chance.

saying 'sorry' is one thing. talk is cheap. my advice, if you want to give him another chance, is not not just 'give' it to him. make him earn it. make him show that's he's committed to never doing that again.

--

on another note, alcohol plus antidepressants is a horrible, dangerous combination. he should never have been drinking on ADs in the first place.
 
Date: 3/23/2009 3:38:27 PM
Author: vintagecushion

I just don''t understand this at all. How would it be ''convicting'' him if prettyinpink chooses not to stay? My hope is that she''d leave because she deserves better and he would get some help which could only be good for him.

Honestly what kind of life are we imagining here? I''m horrified to think of this girl trying to give this guy a second chance. Is she supposed to walk on eggshells, checking constantly to see if this happens again? What if it happens in 5 years, or 10? Life is too short.
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Sorry everyone! I guess I just always try and look at both sides and maybe I''m not choosing the right words. I''m sometimes guilty of being the "devil''s advocate" in many discussions. But, believe me, I don''t want to be advocating for the DEVIL if he is or could be.

I am only speaking from personal experience. I had some difficult times in my relationship. Probably some that many people would say I should have left and never looked back. And, believe me, I considered it many times. But, for me, it was worth it (we were worth it) to work through things. And, 7 years later, I''m glad that I did. So - again - only speaking from my experience where things did work out for the best, but I know that is not always the case.

It seems like many ladies here have been through some rough experiences and probably have more background to know what this may lead to. I would never want anyone to have to live a life of abuse, or even just a fearful existence of "walking on egshells."

So, pretty, I hope I did not offend...and I''m not supporting what he did...just here to support you and whatever decision you make.

Much love and courage to you.
 
Pretty, you mentioned in a previous post that you said you texted "Its over between us isn''t it? Everytime you look at me its like you are angry or upset but won''t tell me why."
Why did you text that? Is that really how it is?

I can''t imagine how hard it must be for the love of your life to suddenly turn into a dangerous, abusive man. It must be devastating. But he did, and thank god that this time you didn''t get hurt.

I know it''s difficult. But RUN. Run hard, run fast. There is absolutely no excuse in the world for even one of the things he said in those messages.

I''m so sorry you''re going through this.
 
Wow. I don''t really have much to add, since the ladies here have pretty much covered anything I could have said, but I just wanted to let you know that I''m so sorry you''re in such a rotten situation right now. I think seeing your therapist will be a very good thing. Giant *hugs* and best of luck with whichever course of action you take!
 
Pretty, this behavior is not okay, not just one time, not ever. His actions constitute emotional and verbal abuse, and, in my opinion, borders on sexual abuse. His remark was disgusting and was intended to degrade you as a woman. Please do not consider staying with this man. I am so very sorry that you are going through this. I am heartsick for you.
 
Date: 3/23/2009 1:55:19 PM
Author: prettylnpink419
Well then to clarify, we went out for St. Patrick''s Day...he got DRUNK. I just moved and still had a few things at my old house that I needed to pick up that night (including my cat, b/c my other cat was sick and I was keeping them separate until she got better). I asked him if he would hold my cat in the car so I could bring him home with me. He freaked out and said no and that he wasn''t my servant and demanded I take him home. So I dropped him off, was really upset and he just got out of the car and stormed off. (It was only 9pm at this point)

He apparently continued to drink...all night apparently and got beyond drunk. He started texting me things like I''m never there for him and that is sooo not true. I try so hard. He is one of those guys that never tells you what he wants or needs and then gets mad b/c you weren''t there for him and you should have just known he needed you. I told him I can only do what I know how, so I help in ways that I can, like if he needs groceries and is tight on money, or he is interested in starting a new career so I worked with my mom who is in HR at a hospital to set him up with someone that does that job for a side-by-side. He is unemployed and I found out my company will allow me to cover him under my insurance if he changes his address to mine. I cook dinner for him, I pay when we go out b/c he doesn''t have money. I support him in every way I know how.

Anyways...he goes on to say things like...

''You shouldn''t come over! There are two strippers on their way!'' (when I said we should talk)

''I''m walking back to the bar to get laid. Still love me now?''

When asked why he is saying such hurtful things and if he didn''t love me anymore he said,
''Yup I don''t love you anymore, just beer!''

''Im hning tfw play io tsccgffic.'' (I think I''m going to play in traffic...just to show you how drunk he was...almost all of this texts were this scrambled)

''f-off. I''m better off with p0rn. Why don''t you find another d**k to suck?''

When I obviously stopped replying because who can reason with a drunk person like that he got even more angry.

''If you cared you''d be here with me. You are so devious, you whine if you don''t get your way!''

and then the final straw...

''I''m going to murd## you! You lie! You don''t love me!''

At this point, as you can imagine, I was just absolutely devastated. Here is the man I love, that supposedly loves me and we are going to marry each other and have kids together and he can say these things to me. So while I know he was drunk, how can I just excuse that behavior?

After about 2 hours, now it is like 12:30am...he texts and asks what time he needed to be at my place the next day. The 18th was his birthday and I was having parents and mine over to meet for the first time for cake and ice cream for his birthday. I told him not to bother, that he should spend his birthday with the people that loved him (since I apparently didn''t). He said ''Huh? What? You give me a hard time and bust my heart and act like its all me? Whatever. Who else would love me more than you. If you meant it? I told him how much he hurt me to which he responded with ''Here comes the guilt...'' and I said no, guilt and said I was going to bed. He called me first thing the next morning.

He was very very very upset with himself. Said he ruined his own birthday. That the thought of not being with me anymore literally made him sick when he woke up (I''m pretty sure it was just the alcohol!). He said he can''t live without me, that I''m the best thing that''s ever happened to him. He said that he doesn''t deserve me and he knows I shouldn''t even speak to him. He cried and begged and pleaded and apologized. I told him I didn''t know if our relationship could recover from everything he said. He said he can''t lose me, he won''t give up on us, etc. He came over with a dozen roses crying and begging.

I reluctently forgave him. Am I a fool?
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Yes.
 
He threatened your life. Plain and simple. It is assault and emotional abuse, his reaction the next day is pretty typical.
You mention his current situation: unemployed, depressed, etc This is not a mix of meds and alcohol, it''s a mix of alcohol and some deep seeded and scary emotions.
And someplace in your mind you think that by getting him on your insurance and getting him help will be the thing. He does need help, but the situation is setting up to be one of major co-dependence, which is pretty part and parcel of emotionally abusive situations. They are extremely, if not impossibly, hard to ever change.
In fact don''t take it from us. Go to a counselor. Be honest with them and you''ll find the best way to deal with this situation.
 
You''ve taken him back this should be contingent on....

1) He needs to be in counselling at a therapist seperate from yours. You do not need couples therapy, he needs his own therapist. You need yours to talk about why you have taken him back. He needs his to discuss his stress and his situation on why he cannot get work and why he is so depressed. There is most likely more to his depression than a simple chemical imbalance.

2) Your relationship must take 2 steps back. If you were talking about moving in together, this needs to be put on hold, indefinately. I wouldn''t even talk about it anymore. You are not at a where is your relationship going conversation, but about figuring out his psychological needs. You need to figure out what is going on, and not just brush it under the carpet - like a whoops shouldn''t have said that. Things cannot keep going along as they were. Your relationship was plogging along a certain course, and he just drove off the road. You need to call a tow truck, get the car into the shop, and see what else was damaged, other than a possible flat tire.

3) If you have taken him back and truley forgiven him, you can never throw this in his face again. IE- you cannot say, remember when you said xxxx, and use that as leverage in the argument. If that is the case, you should NOT be with him at all.

4) If anything like this happens again, you need to end the relationship.

Hugs, and I hope your therapy session goes well.
 
Date: 3/23/2009 4:49:44 PM
Author: tlh
You''ve taken him back this should be contingent on....

1) He needs to be in counselling at a therapist seperate from yours. You do not need couples therapy, he needs his own therapist. You need yours to talk about why you have taken him back. He needs his to discuss his stress and his situation on why he cannot get work and why he is so depressed. There is most likely more to his depression than a simple chemical imbalance.

2) Your relationship must take 2 steps back. If you were talking about moving in together, this needs to be put on hold, indefinately. I wouldn''t even talk about it anymore. You are not at a where is your relationship going conversation, but about figuring out his psychological needs. You need to figure out what is going on, and not just brush it under the carpet - like a whoops shouldn''t have said that. Things cannot keep going along as they were. Your relationship was plogging along a certain course, and he just drove off the road. You need to call a tow truck, get the car into the shop, and see what else was damaged, other than a possible flat tire.

3) If you have taken him back and truley forgiven him, you can never throw this in his face again. IE- you cannot say, remember when you said xxxx, and use that as leverage in the argument. If that is the case, you should NOT be with him at all.

4) If anything like this happens again, you need to end the relationship.
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I cannot agree more.
 
Date: 3/23/2009 4:53:51 PM
Author: somegirl932

Date: 3/23/2009 4:49:44 PM
Author: tlh
You''ve taken him back this should be contingent on....

1) He needs to be in counselling at a therapist seperate from yours. You do not need couples therapy, he needs his own therapist. You need yours to talk about why you have taken him back. He needs his to discuss his stress and his situation on why he cannot get work and why he is so depressed. There is most likely more to his depression than a simple chemical imbalance.

2) Your relationship must take 2 steps back. If you were talking about moving in together, this needs to be put on hold, indefinately. I wouldn''t even talk about it anymore. You are not at a where is your relationship going conversation, but about figuring out his psychological needs. You need to figure out what is going on, and not just brush it under the carpet - like a whoops shouldn''t have said that. Things cannot keep going along as they were. Your relationship was plogging along a certain course, and he just drove off the road. You need to call a tow truck, get the car into the shop, and see what else was damaged, other than a possible flat tire.

3) If you have taken him back and truley forgiven him, you can never throw this in his face again. IE- you cannot say, remember when you said xxxx, and use that as leverage in the argument. If that is the case, you should NOT be with him at all.

4) If anything like this happens again, you need to end the relationship.
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I cannot agree more.
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this is perfect advice, thank you thl! i especially agree with #3 & #4
 
Yikes. I can''t give better advice than you''ve already been given. There''s no reason to forgive someone who could say things like that. The things he said weren''t just mean - they''re scary. And not appropriate ever, under any circumstances.

Please, keep yourself safe -- emotionally and physically.
 
Date: 3/23/2009 2:52:01 PM
Author: fieryred33143
Date: 3/23/2009 2:44:57 PM

Author: Rock_of_Love

Haven''t any of us ever done/said something to a loved one we regretted? Something that was maybe a little too harsh? Especially when drugs/alcohol are involved? I know I have been guilty...so has my BF. It is how you move past it together and what you do differently as a couple in the future that matters.


IMO we may be being a little hard on him and their relationship. Relationships are hard in their own right. There are a lot of ups and downs, and I believe it is how you make it through the down times as a couple that make you stronger. Life is only going to get harder...kids, sickness/health, money, and so on.


He sounded drunk, insecure, depressed...maybe reaching out for help. Maybe his friends got involved and were texting stuff, too. It sounds like it was a pretty crazy night. I do think the murder comment was scary - but everything else sounded just childish, insecure and a little self-absorbed. People can say being drunk is not an excuse, but it is the REASON it happened. Alcohol is a powerful drug.


So, I don''t think you are a fool to forgive him. Only you know in your heart who this person is day in and day out. One stupid night does not make the man.
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I definitely think people have had their moments.


I don''t drink but Mr. Fiery does. When he gets really drunk which happens maybe once a year on a birthday, it''s humorous. I poke fun at him and get him to say/do/agree to stuff he''d never do sober. But I''ve never felt threatened by him ever while he was drunk. I never felt like my life was in danger. He''s never told me that he''s going to find another girl to go have sex with or that he would murder me. That''s the difference.


I did date a guy once before meeting FI that got really drunk while in my home and he said to me ''You know what''s funny? I can completely chop your head into pieces right now and no one would know.'' I kicked him out of my house so fast and never spoke to him again.


I think that if Pretty is going to stay with him then he absolutely has to get the drinking under control otherwise that behavior won''t stop. That was all via text. I can''t imagine the screamfest it would have been had it been in person.
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ditto Fiery. D loves to have a drink with the lads and occasionally gets drunk but he would never threaten me. I think that''s very scary and personally I don''t think that I could get past those text messages if I were the one receiving them. It''s not like they were petty comments-they were serious insults and threats. Sending hugs. I really feel for you in this situation.
 
I wasn''t able to read through everything. So I am sorry if this is repetitive. I have several thoughts;

1. If he never drinks and is now on anti-depressants, yes they can interact horrible, and he can even be allergic to alcohol, however with as much as he drank, that is highly unlikely. If your body is the type that is going to react to the two substances in such a horrendous way, he would have passed out or gotten violently ill prior to the blow up. He could not have consumed this much and still be conscious if the two substances were so volatile together in his system. I have a lot of experience with drunks and people on anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, and narcotics. And all of the above mixed. I also have a medical back ground and some working knowledge.

2. This is verbal and emotional abuse, while it may never escalate to physical or sexual, this is more than unacceptable. Physical scars heal, emotional do not always. Some one said there is a first time for all abuse, she was right. This was it.

3. 95% of men do not change once they become an abuser.

4. If you are going to move on from here with him, he needs to be receiving serious help. Psychiatric and therapeutic/psychological. You cannot be a part of this help until he has reached a key point in recovery. And only he and his therapist will know when this is.

5. You too, may need, and greatly benefit from some professional counseling or therapy. YOU HAVE BEEN ABUSED. YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO BE TREATED THIS WAY!

6. Only you can choose your path from here, and I pray and hope you do yourself justice. Please keep us updated and may you keep yourself safe.
 
When someone shows you who they are -- believe them. I would run like hell.
 
I''m sorry hun - drunk or not that type of behavior is extremely abusive. I wouldn''t take it... You can do better.
 
Drunk = no excuse
Depressed = no excuse
Drinking on antidepressants = no excuse
Being stressed = no excuse

You just don''t talk to someone you love that way. I''ve been in that kind of relationship and came up with every excuse possible to avoid confronting the fact that my ex had no respect for me. After I finally found the courage to leave (7 years later than I should have done) he even told me that he could say what he liked to me, hit me and generally emotionally abuse me because I had been happy to stay even though he was doing it, therefore I had no self-respect, therefore why should he...

In a healthy relationship you don''t talk to each other like that. Those who ask if others have never said things they then wish they hadn''t or didn''t mean... actually no I haven''t. I''ve said nasty things in previous relationships - and meant every word. I have never said anything unkind or even raised my voice to my husband in nearly 5 years and neither has he.

Once respect has gone from a relationship it''s very hard to get it back.

My advice is either leave, or if you don''t leave take a break and make him prove that he wants you back. He needs to sort his life out and get whatever help he needs.

Whatever you do, don''t offer to help him do either of these things, you''re not there to be his own personal Florence Nightingale.
 
WOW. I think there is something really off going here. I agree with those who said to RUN FAST AWAY - this is not normal or healthy behavior AT ALL, drunk or not. You deserve better.
 
I agree with other posters, that is about as hurtful as it gets - esp. the part about murdering you, WTF? I would be devastated, you deserve better than this.
 
The more I read the explanation of that night, the more pissed off I get. He''s a freaking moocher! You are supporting him when the two of you go out, he wants to use YOUR address so that he gets insurance, he guilts you about HIS SCREW UP...girl, you need to run fast and hard from this loser. You may be sad and hurting at first, but trust me you won''t regret it.
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I agree with Winks and Neatfreak--RUN! You are a fool if you stay with this guy.

I know it''s hard, honey. I know it literally makes you hurt in your chest to leave someone you love, no matter how bad you know he might be for you. I know it feels like all of those wonderful times should outweigh a few really nasty moments, but they don''t. We all have our limits for how much we are willing to put up with, but if a murder threat and references to oral sex with other men (among other things) are not deal breakers for you, then your limits defy logic, in my opinion.

It hurts to leave a relationship. You''ll mourn what *could have been* for a while, and it will feel awful. But this is not a stable person, and he has no business being in a relationship with you after treating you like that.

And I don''t think we''re being harsh at all. I don''t have the highest tolerance for BS from people, but this behavior is absolutely unacceptable.
 
He sounds manipulative, childish and awful.
You can expect more of this from him in future. You are just moving in with him? I would rethink.

Warning: pop psychology reading following:
From his comments, it seems that he wants you to 'rescue him' from his life, as he seems not to be fully in control...he benefits from you mothering him, but he resents you for doing it - and for him needing it - at the same time. What is his (and your) relationship with his parents like?

This is the sort of behaviour some poor long-suffering mums (of grown-up babies) cop. His imagery is already little violent, and sexually disrespectful.
I would be extremely careful!!! If you were my daughter, I would urge you strongly to cease contact immediately.

I haven't read beyond your post detailing his comments.
 
After reading what he said to you I have to say that I was floored. He''s going to MURDER you?!?!?! I don''t care if he''s drunk, high, stressed, depressed, on meds, whatever. NOT acceptable. From what''s been written it seems like he''s a nice guy, yet I get the sense he''s also taking advantage of you and mooching. Only you can decide, obviously. I now you love him. I know it''s hard. However, being threatened is something that is above and beyond what I''d personally reccomend forgiving. If you do choose to take him back PLEASE be careful and make sure he gets some serious help!

I''ll keep you in my thoughts! Good luck!
 
My sober thoughts: The things you''ve described, from the text messages he''s sent to the amount of support (both financial and emotional) that you provide for this man are asinine. Please, talk to your therapist, or even better your most no nonsense friend, about what you''ve shared here, and don''t leave any of it (including the death threats and lying so he can be included on your health insurance) out. Hopefully they''ll tell you the same things you''re hearing from the majority of people hear, and because you trust them you''ll listen.
 
My SO and I have never said anything I would deem "really mean and hurtful" to one another in the entire 2.5+ years of our relationship.

The way I see it.. having respect for your SO does not fade with the amount of alcohol in your blood system. In our friends relationships - if the guy calls the girl a bitch jokingly while hes drunk he also calls her a bitch sober when they''re in a fight or in a joking manner to mock her if hes asking for a beer or such from the fridge and shes getting up to get herself a drink. SO and I have never been that way because at this point doing it jokingly would be just as hurtful - so, doing it drunk would be just as hurtful.

If your relationship doesnt have respect as its foundation theres really no point in being in a relationship at all.

You shouldnt tolerate anything but complete respect if thats what you feel youre dishing out.
 
I''m sorry.. but I agree with the rest of the girls here.

He sounds exactly like my ex who eventually tried to make good on his murder threat. I was absolutely enamored with him but after that I was so scared... I left. It''s been almost 4 years and I haven''t looked back since. My current bf is the sweetest most thoughtful person .. a complete 180 from my ex. It will hurt, but honestly.. a guy who threatens to murder you will intend to make good on it one day...
 
How to say this without sounding like a lush ... I like a drink as much as the next girl. Maybe more. Probably more. I have consumed rivers, nay, oceans, of various fermented substances. I have made a fool of myself a few times, and have gotten maudlin on a few others, and caused some low-key property damage on at least one notable occasion (it involved a bottle of gin, a rickety little table, and an explanation of my people''s national folk dance. ''Nuff said ....) And yet, I have never, ever, ever threatened a friend or partner with any kind of bodily harm. I haven''t even had the kinds of fight that qualify as emotional harm. And, since I''ve had company for all-of-the-above, let me emphasize ... neither have any of my friends or loved ones ever engaged in this kind of behavior, either.

Not to yell at you on the internet, but just for emphasis: THIS IS NOT NORMAL. And it doesn''t have to be this hard.

You mentioned early on that you''d taken him back, reluctantly, but here''s the thing: you''re allowed to change your mind. What he said to you was horrifying, uncalled for (no, acting "a little bitchy" is not a justification for this kind of manipulation or emotional abuse), and a red flag of astonishing proportions. Even if you really, really, really love him - do you love him more than you love yourself? More than you''d love your potential children? You do not want to be subject to this kind of volatility. Consider the fact that it''s not your behavior, it''s not drink, it''s not prescription medication, but simply a deep well of something very angry and potentially very dangerous within your boyfriend, and please, consider distancing yourself, for your own sake.
 
All I can say after reading this thread in it''s entirety is W.O.W. The ladies have covered anything I would have advised myself. If you love and respect yourself, you need to leave quickly and cut off all contact with him. You do EVERYTHING for him and he seems to appreciate NONE of it. He resents you for it, and none of it''s healthy. I don''t care if he doesn''t drink regularly, this is NEVER OKAY.

If you really feel you have to take him back, I''m with Winks, don''t give him a second second chance. The next sign of any problems (threatening text, mean comment, anything, etc.), it''s over, done, finito.

Goodluck, you are in my thoughts and prayers PIP, I hope you''re safe and at least stay clear of him for a few days until you figure out what''s best for you.

*Hugs*
 
There are a lot of dynamics going on here, and I certainly think you two need counseling for several reasons. But I do have something important to say that I think most people do not understand. I have seen someone have a horrible reaction to taking an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety med and drinking heavily. In fact, it is the scariest thing I have ever seen. The person IS NOT acting like a drunk who is uninhibited and saying their darkest thoughts...it is literally flipping out and losing their mind. So I am not so alarmed by the things he said. In fact, once you realized he was drunk and irrational, it would have been really good if you had turned your phone off.

I am much more concerned about his handling of losing his job and how he says that you don''t do enough for him, etc. It does sound like he is depressed, but he absolutely CANNOT drink and take meds!!!! (obviously)

So my advice is to get professional help before moving forward with the relationship. People need to be able to make it through tough times as well as good times. I hope the counseling will help make things clear.
 
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