Do I really have to invite her (part 2)

[AceP]

Ally,

I''m sure i''m way over my net-boundaries here, but I remember some of your old threads, and the whole situation really worries me. to be frank, it seems like this relationship has lacked certain necessary components: mutual respect, understanding, common interests - for a long long time. i see too many people stay in mediocre relationships because they feel stuck. they''ve been together for 10 years, they own a home together, they''re scared to death to be single at age 28, 29, 32, etc. these are all bad bad reasons to stay in a relationship. a relationship - a life partnership - should make you feel happy and fulfilled. you don''t have to hang out 24-7, but you should understand one another and connect on a level that''s above and beyond anything else you''ve ever experienced. and if that''s not the case - if there''s continual misunderstanding, and drama and strife... well, i worry.

of course you don''t know me, and i don''t even post that often, so i apologize for being out of line. i really was just alarmed by what i read - and worried about your future.

 

[brooklyngirl]

It''s great that you''re thinking about this rationally, and giving each other time cool off, so that you don''t say things out of anger. But at the same time, I hope that cooling off does not mean brushing this issue under the rug. It''s viewed in a negative light, because it is negative. And I hope after you both cool off, that you still remember why you got into this fight in the first place. Best of luck.

 

[wishful]

Ally sorry to reiterate....but RUN don''t walk to the book store and get that His Needs Her Needs book.
It''s written by a VERY good marriage councelor and the more I read about your relationship with your FI the more things I can remember from that book that touch on those very points.

You and your FI should be EACHOTHERS NUMBER ONE PRIORITY - hands down. Once you reach the point of being engaged and getting married then there is a shift in the priorities and if your FI is not ready to make you number one above his friends then I''m afraid that he is probably not 100% ready to take on marriage.
I don''t mean to be harsh...I''m just trying to help by calling it like I see it.

 

[CellarDoor]

Ally, you said that you don''t feel that your FI would defend you if his friends were to insult or verbally attack you. Is this something that happens often? His friends sound like some very rude people if that is the case. You''ve been together since you were 15, do you think that maybe his friends encourage him to try to go out and do things with other girls, or give him trouble because he has been in a relationship since he was so young? My ex boyfriend''s friends were that way. They were all (for the most part) in relationships, but would cheat on their girlfriends if the opportunity presented itself.

Have you ever thought that maybe your FI enjoys the flirting with this other girl? I am not saying that he is cheating on you with her or anything, but he may very well like the attention. It seems pretty strange that his friend would be ok with his girlfriend grinding on another man, but maybe they have one of those open relationships or something. I once knew a girl who would dance with, hit on and even kiss other guys in front of her boyfriend because it would make him really jealous and she said that they would have really good sex afterwards. Maybe there is something like that going on here.

 

[MoonWater]

This thread depresses me. I agree with everyone else that says this needs to be resolved now and that perhaps you should pause and re-evaluate this relationship. Everyone is different, but what he is doing and what he is allowing is utterly disrespectful and a poor way to start off a marriage.

 

[Munchkin]

I am about to join AceP over on the "crossed the line side." This will probably seem cruel, harsh and uncalled for. To be frank, I am about to write things I have bitten my tongue about for a few years. Even though you may feel like I am attacking you or your FI, please try to read my post as if a close friend were calmly, gently saying these things.

You probably have no idea who I am, as I seldom post. I have been a member here for a few years. I have read your threads throughout that time. I remember your struggles with French for med school, I remember cultural clashes your family and FI have had, I remember your sister''s behavior, I remember when you and your FI either "took a break" or broke up. I also remember you having the SAME concerns/problems with your FI years ago. It was a few years ago that you first referenced his not standing up for you to his friends.

I can honestly say that I have genuinely worried about your relationship in those years. I know I sound melodramatic. I know we don''t know each other in real life. However, you must admit that if there weren''t red flags, I wouldn''t have remembered you or your story. I''ve read about hundreds of other couples on this site, yet I remember your relationship and how much it has concerned me. I have long felt that you''ve given more than he has. I''ve felt that he does what he wishes, apologizes, then does it again. I also feel a bit like the two of you love one another deeply, yet will struggle with a marriage. It shouldn''t hurt this much. It shouldn''t take this much work.

I know you''ve referenced that you know he means well, loves you and has made sacrifices for you. I don''t doubt any of that, but that doesn''t excuse some of the things he has said and done. Even if you only use this place to vent about his worst behaviors, and he is a prince the rest of the time, he has still done things that are simply not acceptable. Some time ago, you knew things weren''t right - so you took time away. As crazy as it sounds, I was relieved when I read your post about that. I thought some distance would help you gain an outsider''s perspective and give you the strength to deal with the fear of ending such a long chapter of your life. I''ve worried about you ever since you got back together.

Ally, I am sure you two love each other - but you are giving and he is taking. He keeps hurting you in these same ways. You addressed it years ago - it should be resolved by now. Instead he is still putting his friends first and minimizing your needs.

Again, I really don''t want to seem like I am attacking him or your relationship. But, as I''ve said, these thoughts have been spinning in my head for years, and I am usually an optimist!

Affectionately,
Munchkin

 

[dockman3]

Ally,

After taking the time to read this entire four page thread, I think I''m the only guy who has made a comment. The reason I make this comment is that I am going through a similar thing with my gf right now. I hope I might be able to shed some more light on what your FI is thinking and ways to help. Here''s how my situation is different though, the four of us, me, my gf K, my best friend D and his wife M, all used to live in the same house. K and M got along fine for the first few months after D&M got married. After that, things got nasty and right before D&M moved out, some things were said between K and M and they haven''t spoken to each other in over a year. I was best man at D&M''s wedding and I want D in my wedding, which is coming up in a year or two. My gf, K, refuses to invite M to the wedding and I''m torn as to what to do. D has been my friend for longer than I''ve known K and I really don''t want to hurt either one. K has told me some of the same things I''ve read here about not sticking up for her and letting my friends say whatever they want about her. I''ve never been good with conflict and I avoid it whenever I can. In some cases, I can honestly say that I either didn''t hear or didn''t catch what was being said. I''ve also heard things that would not have been offensive to me. As for not being invited to the bday celebration, I agree that he should have made a bigger deal out of it, but you didn''t seem to care, so I''m sure he figured it was alright. That''s what I would have done, especially if I knew there was bad blood between you two. That''s not to say that he didn''t care or didn''t think about it, but you''re told to chose between two people who you care for, its really difficult. Reading this post has made me reevaluate my own situation and I am now going to talk to D and see if I can get K and M talking again, because they did get along for a while. Its going to hurt D and its not going to be fun, but its what I''ve got to do. My advice to you is to try not to make it an all or none deal. Don''t make it "Its either me or him!" deal. That''s not going to end well for anybody. Maybe the four of you could sit down and all hash it out together. If he really is your FI''s best friend, you''ll have to deal with him and his wife for the rest of your lives. I say its worth one shot to work it out. Just remember that this is really hard for your FI too. Guys aren''t always receptive to what is going on and can easily over look things. I''m just saying to give him the benefit of the doubt and maybe even let him see of these posts. This honestly changed the way I''m looking at myself now, so maybe it will change him too. Good luck, Ally! And thanks for sharing.

 

[allycat0303]

dockman3,

I really appreciated your post. I am trying to think of his point of view, which is why I haven`t made a 'him or me' declaration at this point. All of what you've said is totally relevent. He spoke to me about it yesturday (of his own free will) and he said he was really sorry, that he didn't think it bothered me. In retrospect, he agrees that it wasn't the smartest thing to do, and he should have thought of me. He was sincere where else all other discussions were not sincere. He explained that the next time this happens, he won't go but his exact words will be 'I don`t feel comfortable going because my fiancée wasn't invited'. I felt he got what I was feeling, where else all other conversations were he was minimzing or disregarding my feelings. Our relationship is currently a little "off" so we'll see how it goes. And I agree that guys are that perceptive to what is going on. I do feel that he just didn`t notice. But it's kind of hard for me to fault him because I didn`t really notice either in the beginning.

so I'm not that perceptive either. I think your situation sounds really hard too. If anything, I guess that us gals discussing it has given you some insight on how we precieve these things. I hope you are able to come up with a happy ending.

Muchkin: Your post was so sweet and apologetic! Don`t worry, you have not crossed any line whatsoever. I do absolutely know who you are, and you don`t need to bite your tongue about anything

, When I post, it's because I want an outsider point of view. I don't want to know what my sister (who loves him) or my friends (who love him) Which is incidently, the consensus among friends and family. "he's a really good person, he loves you, and you want to deal with all the bad guys out there" All of it just makes me think. And vent.

Cellerdoor: No his friends don't attack me all the time. It only happened once. And it did end up that the guy is no longer a friend of fiancé. That was a long time ago. As for if he enjoys flirting with her....maybe, I know it sounds strange, but I don't mind THAT much. I rationlize if it was completely out of line, her boyfriend (who is always present) would have done something.

 

[dockman3]

Ally,

I''m glad my two cents helped. When I read some of the things being posted, I realized that my girl was saying some of the same things and I wondered what people would say about me if my gf started posting on here. That''s what woke me up when I was reading, so maybe if he can get an outsiders point of view as well it will help him to see where he''s made a mistake and hopefully what he can do to fix it. I just hope you are being as honest with him in person as you are being honest with us on this board. I''ve been on here for a couple of weeks, but I''ve already found that it is extremely easy to be honest here and sometimes a lot harder to honest in real life.

 

[that_someone_special]

Yiiiikes. I wouldn''t not inviter her, personally. I would probably do something catty as well, and act all bitchy to her. I''m that kind of girl. But anyhow, HELL NO would I allow another woman to touch my man like that. HELL NO!! We would be having some words if ANYONE was grinding on my man, much less a woman who "has a boyfriend". In my circle of friends, we have words for women like that... and it''s not the "b" word

*retracts claws*

 

[FireGoddess]

Hey ally girl...long time no see!!

I read this thread yesterday, so hopefully I'm remembering things right, but a few things came to mind.

1. Men are sometimes idiots.
I say this with all the love in the world, I love men, but I'm sorry, sometimes they are freakin clueless. He probably didn't get it at ALL that you were the only one not invited, probably not till he got there, and since you weren't concerned before he left, and didn't really want to go, then he didn't think anything of it. He should have done the mental math that everyone was there but you, but can't fault him for that prior to getting there. If I were him, I'd have made some fakely innocent comments like, 'Hmm, was Ally the only person not invited? Because everyone else is here and she was DEFINITELY not invited.' or crap like that, knowing full well that appears to be the case. But I am not a man, so I recognize this would not perhaps be in their arsenal of wittiness.

2. Is my best friend's girl really hitting on ME? I don't want to be wrong about this.
If I recall correctly, the witch here seems to be his best friend's girlfriend. Right? So even though this tramp is acting exactly like a b!!tchy floozy, could it be possible your bf's thinking that there is no way she is coming onto HIM? That would be pretty freakin brazen, to be hitting on your boyfriend's best friend. I'm sure as hell he's thinking that she's being harmless, or he's hoping to hell that she is, because you definitely don't want to be telling your best friend that you think his girlfriend is hitting on you. She'll deny it and it will be an atom bomb for the friendship. Any blind person could see that. He's probably thinking that if his friend isn't concerned, then he has nothing to worry about.

Some guys are better at this whole thing without it having to be pointed out by someone such as you (a girlfriend/fiancee/etc). But not all guys are that perceptive or comfortable with confrontation so I'd be willing to at least tell them my expectations before being angry that they weren't met. But if it's a habitual thing, that's not okay.

As for inviting this biotch to your wedding, HELL NO. Or, I'd tell your guy's best friend that you are uncomfortable with the way she interacts with your fiance. Maybe he doesn't mind how his girlfriend acts, but you do, and you'd rather she not act it all out on your fiance. While it would seem more logical for your fiance to tell his friend this, I think that would be WAY more than awkward. 'Hey dude, my fiancee is not comfortable with how your girlfriend flirts with me.' I can see him not wanting to do that.

 

[purrfectpear]

Honestly if you''re forced to have her at the wedding, I could totally imagine her getting stinking drunk and attempting to grind on him at the reception.

Now there''s a pretty picture for your wedding day. It''s sure to be a day to remember for all the guests.

 

[NYCsparkle]

hey if your sister is still invited after all she did...so should this beeeatch...lol...that was a joke ally

 

[Linda W]

Date: 6/13/2008 10:14:19 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Honestly if you''re forced to have her at the wedding, I could totally imagine her getting stinking drunk and attempting to grind on him at the reception.


Now there''s a pretty picture for your wedding day. It''s sure to be a day to remember for all the guests.

Especially if the wedding reception is on a CD

YIKES!!!!!

 

[princesss]

Okay, I, too, may overstep my boundaries here, but there are two things that I''ve been thinking while reading this:

1) If your FI is not willing to speak up to his friend(s) about this, it could (to me) mean one of two things. Either they aren''t really friends if they can''t handle a tough situation, or he''s not really engaged. I know you guys have a ring, but if he can''t stand up for you, he''s not committed to making it work.

2) It sounds to me like he''s keeping nasty girl on the back burner. (I''m so sorry for having to say this.) He''s unwilling to stand up to her and tell her it''s not acceptable. He''s unwilling to tell his friend what''s going on with his own GF. He''s keeping her available to him, so that should he ever need "comforting", she''s there. (Please, please don''t hate me. This is coming from a loving place, as harsh as it sounds in black and white.)

Honestly, I would put my foot down. I''ve had to do it with my BF and some of his friends (that actively encourage each other to cheat on their GFs), and, while it was no fun, it made us stronger.

If he continues to try to squirrel out of talking about this or continues to refuse to put you first (and I do mean FIRST. Always), I, personally, would run away.

If I were in your shoes, I would get myself out for the weekend. Drive about an hour away, get a cheap hotel room, and have a pow-wow with myself. I''d write down what''s important to me, what I expect, what I deserve, and what I demand out of a relationship. Then I would sit down and look at my lists and see where FI measured up. It''s hard to be objective, but it''s important. For me, this would be a deal breaker.

I can''t tell you what to do/think/feel, but I hope you choose what is going to be best for you. If your FI isn''t going to put you first, then you need to take him out of first place in your life for a while and put yourself there.

*hugs* and best wishes. This is an awful situation, and I''m sorry you are going through it.

 

[Linda W]

Ally,

Can you both go to counseling before you are married? I believe it would be beneficial to the both of you. Just my opinion.


Linda

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Ally I am sorry I''m so late responding to this and I haven''t read much other than the last page and your original post, but I wanted to chip in. I just wanted to say I feel your pain. My FI''s friends (who I thought were my friends as well) were all nice guys until the one guy married a mean chick. She is really mean and hates me for like no reason. It''s so weird! The main difference is she isn''t interested in my FI, she just doesn''t like another alpha female being around. I won''t just bow down to her and do whatever she says like most girls do. Anyway, so she hates me, bad-mouths me, etc. So now when FI hangs with the friends I am not invited. They hang out..and I don''t get to come. No one asks about me, they pretend like I don''t exist. And now we are stuck either not inviting FI''s college roommate because of the roommate''s mean wife...or ending up with a hateful girl at our wedding. Which I hate the idea of because I want to have a nice wedding with only people who are happy for us there to share it. It''s so frustrating and emotional for both of us. I hope it works out for you two. We are still working through it because FI has agreed not to invite the guy, but I feel guilty about asking him to do that so we''re rethinking it a bit.

Anyway, ((Hugs)).

 

[vintagelover229]

I''m sorry that you are going through this rough time. But, better NOW than AFTER the wedding right? I have a little story myself. Just a little background though. 1. My family isn''t invited to my wedding for a number of reasons, which I''ll probably get into on a different post to ask advice about. 2. My FI and I live in TX and the wedding is near his parents house in Omaha. 3. My FI dad hates to be wrong and says some really stupid stuff sometimes.
Okay, here''s the story, and let me say this has happended more than once, just different situations. I was in Omaha doing some wedding planning and booking some things w/o my FI and I was staying with his folks. First, this was my first time being there w/o him, so it was the situation where you weren''t sure how it would go, and 2. I was stressed beyond belife because of weddnig planning. So my FI mom took the day off to go wedding dress shopping with me, and to be honest, I had NO clue how much those things can cost! I mean NO WAY!!!! So, needless to say a gown that I liked (I didn''t get it cuz it wasnt'' THE dress) cost $1200.00, and I broke the news to Brad (FI) and he kinda was in a state of mild shock. I mean, we can afford it, but WOW, and I now know that''s on the lower end cuz I tried on a 1900.00 gown, didn''t get that one either. Anyway, fast forward to a convo. on the phone w/Brad later that night about the price of the gown. I was trying to explain to him that we may be spending a little more than we thought on a gown.
Now, he wasn''t freaking out, but he''s kinda not the type to spend $$, he likes to save, so he wasn''t understanding why I couldn''t buy a 150.00 dress. (a typical guy remark). So needless to say I passed the phone to him mom, thinking she could reason with him a little more and maybe hearing her say it, he might believe me.
That''s when his dad made a nice comment. Something like, "Well, if you guys are already fighting about $$ and this then maybe you should rethink this whole thing."
First off, well, you don''t say something like that to me, especally when I''m there by myself. If you think it''s an issue, bring it up to your son, and he''ll talk about it to me.
2. He walked in half way though the convo. and had NO CLUE what we were talking about. Needless to say I TRIED to explian it to him, but he wouldn''t hear it and just repeated the comment again.
I had to remove myself because I was hurt and wasn''t thinking right. Well, I didn''t realize that Brad had OVER HEARD the comment on the phone. He was pissed.
Needless to say his mom passed his dad the phone and Brad said "Don''t you EVER EVER make comments like that again. One, never to her, and 2. if you really think something like that, you need to talk to me FIRST before saying ANYTHING. You CANT just say things like that! And really put his dad in check.
Then I got my phone back and Brad said that his dad didn''t know the whole story, and didn''t mean it after everything was all said and done. Later that night his dad gave me a hug and said sorry, and that he just wants us to be happy and he should have listened to me instead of making stupid comments w/o knowing everything.



SO the point of the story IS....well it was his DAD he had to stick up to. He wasn''t even there and he put his foot down. That wasn''t even his friends. That''s happened b4 too cuz he''s older and was the guy everyone went out w/until he dated me, so they weren''t thrilled I took their party buddy, but he put his foot down then too.

It sounds like your trying to work everything out and talk. I say go to pre-matieral councling if you can. We are going to do it too! I think it helps prepare you a little more and you learn alot. hand in their hun, at least your thinking about things!

PS. sorry this was so long!