Do I really have to invite her (part 2)

[fieryred33143]

Date: 6/11/2008 2:19:29 PM
Author: Fancy605

4. Just because you have nothing to worry about doesn''t mean you want someone flirting with your Fiance. It''s not like she''s some random girl who doesn''t know he''s off the market. She knows what she''s doing. She is an adult. She should know where to draw the line between flirty-friendliness towards someone and blatantly hitting on someone.

I would like to ditto that and also mention that if it were me, I would have paid a little visit or at the minimum placed a phone call to let this girl know that her behavior is inappropriate. He should have put an end to it immediately but I still would have stuck up for myself.

Personally, not only would I tell "E" myself why his girlfriend isn''t invited...I would tell her exactly why she isn''t invited either.

 

[Bliss]

I don't know your histories, but sometimes some guys don't have a clue.

Many many years ago, FI and I were in a car with his good friend and his girlfriend. The girlfriend, who is known to be ditzy, unknowingly said something I took mild offense to. Because FI was happily riding along holding my hand and zoned out, he didn't catch on to it. And I don't think he saw it as offensive to me. Anyway, we had a LONG talk about it and turns out FI didn't realize what was said and he rationalized that the poor girl didn't have enough tact to self-censor.

But I was very much like, "It's stand up for me or you don't get to be with me." And I nearly broke up with him over it. Maybe I was a little too strong in my words but the poor guy is almost paranoid the OTHER way now and is overly protective if he perceives I COULD be offended. And that was when I was in my early twenties, insecure and not as compassionate a person. Nowadays, I'd laugh it off. Except nowadays, FI would be saying some strong stern words to the offender.

I'm just saying, YES, be very clear and very firm. But looking back, I don't think I would have scared him to death so much. I think I hammered that point in and probably raked him over the coals for that one. It was clueless 20-something male duh behavior and I really did hammer it in I think too hard. Partnerships are also about understanding the other person's perspective. So you can go too far.

Remember! The goal isn't to make him suffer, but to help him understand.

And you also have to learn to forgive because I bet there will be times you screw up, too. And you will both make each other mad at some points in your long lives together! And whenever you want to help a loved one understand you, you do it with compassion and an open mind. Right?

I agree things got REALLY sloppy with your guy going without thinking of you and DEFINITELY not pushing the crazy woman off of him. Unacceptable. Disrespectful. Of course! I'm just saying -- use this as practice for your future. Communicating brings couples together and you learn more about each others' comfort levels. It's a good thing. Don't forget that!

You can both grow from this if you choose to. But then again, it's always a choice! And he does need to stand up for you as a FI. Totally. No question. Unified front or it all goes to pieces.

 

[mimzy]

ally, ditto to all the others that responded. and good for you for not letting this drop!

do you know why your FI won''t stand up to his friends? is it out of loyalty, laziness, or fear? are they best friends for life, or just people that you hang out with the most? if it''s the latter (or even if it''s not), your boyfriend might be insecure in his friendship. he might be scared that if he stands up to them that they will just brush him off and stop inviting him out (whereas you wouldn''t leave him over it). not that that excuses his behavior at all, but it might be something to consider.


if it is out of loyalty to them or laziness, then you better set him straight, SOON! it sounds like he''s having difficulty making the mental switch from ''girlfriend'' to ''FUTURE WIFE/LIFE PARTNER'' in terms of what you need of him.

 

[Gypsy]

Bliss I agree with you. But with some men, they really need to understand that there are extreme consequences for their actions before they will modify their behavior. While in your case, such a harsh reprimand may not have been needed. But in someone else''s case it might be the only thing to get through to him.

The only thing about threats is... you have to be willing to carry them out. In the course of our relationship we''ve had issues (not relevant what they were) where I''ve drawn that line in the sand. And on the very rare occassions when I''ve had to, I was serious about it, and he KNEW I was serious about walking away.

 

[Erin]

Date: 6/11/2008 9:47:52 AM
Author: fieryred33143

In everything you have written, I have not once heard of a time where he has chosen you. Don’t be fooled…he did not choose you over his friend. He chose not arguing with you over hanging out with a friend. There’s a big difference.

My thoughts, too.

 

[Bliss]

Gypsy, you are so right. Very wise.

And it''s true what you say about meaning what you say. Words are empty without the integrity to back them up. That though comes from inner strength, which often takes years to build.

Ally, how old are you? You sound so mature, but maybe you two are very young. Or wise old souls in young bodies.

The key is intention. If he intended to make you mad & jealous by relishing the tale of the crazy girl groping him, then that is a red flag of insecurity and he will probably hurt you again in this way unless he faces his own fears. Therapy is a wonderful option for that. Everyone can use someone to listen and help sort through their own issues. Self realization is a tremendous gift if you can afford it and have the time to invest in yourself.

Hmmmm... If he really was clueless, maybe the talk - an open one without hammering him, can help him see it hurt you. Whatever the case, he hurt you. He needs to change his behavior so that it doesn''t happen again.

Love is both changing old behaviors that hurt your partner and practicing other behaviors that support your relationship. Heck, my parents loved each other so much but even after 20 years of marriage they were STILL learning each other, like a musical instrument. And there were always surprises, too! LOL.

Stand up for yourself. But don''t feel despair like this is a do or die situation. If he really loves you, he will stand up for you. If he can''t, then help him get the counseling he needs so he can do this for himself and for you!

 

[MoonWater]

Oh wow...I only read the original post so I''m sure others have already said this but HELL NO. I would NOT invite her. Forget that.

Also, just because she was trying to be all over your guy it doesn''t mean he didn''t try to push her away. Some people don''t give a crap if the person is saying no and she seems...ugh...just gross..eww. No way would she be at my wedding. And hold on, isn''t this your FI''s best friend''s girlfriend?!?! Wtf?

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/9/2008 8:56:36 AM
Author: thing2of2
I wouldn''t invite her. Why should you? She specifically doesn''t invite you to her events. I just think life is too short to be around people you don''t like, and a wedding is too important to have someone there who makes your skin crawl. Just blame it on the guest limitations and don''t invite her. Honestly, I doubt she would be surprised at not being invited considering how she treats you.

P.S. I would talk to your fiance about the grinding/hugging situation again, too, if it''s still bothering you.

I should have just read this because I could not possibly agree more. Esp with the part highlighted. Seriously, my skin crawled reading that post. Ugh..yuk.

 

[fieryred33143]

To play devil’s advocate here:

I’ve been thinking a lot about this issue and I’m kind of putting myself in “M’s” shoes.

If my boyfriend were invited to a wedding where he has a significant role (so its not like he can show up for the reception, give a gift, and come home) and I was not invited, that would be a huge problem. I think at that point, he would probably request to not be part of the bridal party anymore. I mean what would you do…send him an invitation but not have her name on it? Presumably he’s going to RSVP for himself and his girl so then what should she do? Call him and say she can’t go?

I think that I wouldn’t want her there…but not wanting her there means not having “E” there and isn’t he the best man?

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/9/2008 11:06:37 AM
Author: surfgirl
ally, you know I''m very fond of you...but I''ve gotta say (and I''m not sure why it''s not been said yet here), why the hell is your FI allowing this to go on in the first place? You act like it''s all this witchy girl but really, as soon as your FI realized that EVERYbody else had been invited with their SO''s except your guy? He should have confronted witchy girl and demanded to know why she did that. And then he should have gone over to E and explained that as long as M continues to disrespect you, he cannot continue this friendship. Period. End of story. It''s not over the top. It''s common decency. I mean, why wouldn''t your FI tell E that his girl is grinding on him on the dancefloor and that she''s been flirting with him both in the past and now? Why hasn''t your FI taken any responsibility in this?

Sweetie, this isn''t going to stop once a wband is on your finger, you realize that, right? It''s time for your guy to grow a pair and man-up to his friend and that pathetic excuse of a GF he has.

And no, you should NOT invite her regardless of whatever transpires between now and your wedding. And you should be clear with E as to why his GF is NOT invited.

Ditto this as well. No way would FF go to some event where I wasn''t invited but everyone else''s SO was. Also, he would have embarassed the living hell out of any chick that tried to hit on him. I am still very confused though, I mean, this is his best friend''s girl? What is going on...do they have an open relationship? That''s just sooo gross.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/11/2008 4:46:05 PM
Author: fieryred33143

To play devil’s advocate here:

I’ve been thinking a lot about this issue and I’m kind of putting myself in “M’s” shoes.

If my boyfriend were invited to a wedding where he has a significant role (so its not like he can show up for the reception, give a gift, and come home) and I was not invited, that would be a huge problem. I think at that point, he would probably request to not be part of the bridal party anymore. I mean what would you do…send him an invitation but not have her name on it? Presumably he’s going to RSVP for himself and his girl so then what should she do? Call him and say she can’t go?

I think that I wouldn’t want her there…but not wanting her there means not having “E” there and isn’t he the best man?

Good point. But if my FI had a best friend like this guy, who has a girlfriend like this woman. I would not care. She would deliberately not be invited. The best friend would be told up front that his SO is not invited. If he bowed out of the wedding, oh well. If my FI had a problem with it, I seriously would not marry him. No way would I put up with being treated like what I've just read (just read this entire thread and am now in the original thread). No, no, and no. Hell, someone would probably have to pull me off that woman after I finished knocking FI upside the head a few times. Yuk!!

 

[HollyS]

I have to add . . . after reading all the posts, and rehashing yiour previous posts . . . who you invite to your wedding is the least of your troubles. I''m pretty sure I wouldn''t be having a wedding. . . anytime soon.

No one here wants to rain on your parade. But these issues are HUGE RED FLAGS. Don''t ignore them; don''t be placated; don''t be cajoled; don''t apologize; don''t forgive. They need fixing. Now.

 

[Fancy605]

Ally, your description of your guy reminds me a little of mine. It seems to me that he was a little clueless about why this would bother you. It doesn't seem like a lot of things bother you, so maybe it was surprising to him that this should. Sometimes it just doesn't occur to my DH that something would bother me until I tell him it does. If I wait to tell him that something bothers me until after the fact, he doesn't want to talk about it. It's not that he doesn't care that it bothers me; it's just that he doesn't think he can fix the problem once it's all said and done, and he doesn't understand having heated discussions over something he can't magically go back and fix. What he sometimes fails to realize is that I don't expect him to try to fix what happened. What's done is done. What I have to do is explain to him that what I want is to discuss what happened so that we can avoid replicating the problem. Once he understands that he isn't being asked to "fix" something and is only being asked to watch out for future bad situations, he is MUCH more receptive towards talking about the issue at hand. He'll even come up with a plan for keeping it from happening again.

I think for now, I would keep the issue of whether to invite her or not on the back burner and focus on the issue that you were bothered by the way you were treated. In my experience with DH, he functions best dealing with one thing at a time, and he gets overwhelmed and shuts off when I start piling on related issues. I would still want him to make mention of the situation to E. Maybe he could ask E to talk to his g/f about keeping her hands to herself. Maybe he could ask E why you weren't invited if all the other SOs were. Maybe you could ask him to mention that he wanted to make sure E knew it wasn't acceptable and that he won't be going out with the group anymore if you aren't welcome in the future.

And Fiery makes a good point as well. If it comes down to it, and you DO feel you have to invite her in order to avoid drama between FI and E, then you could always just make your point by addressing the invitation to "E and Guest"

 

[wishful]

First of all - Nothing says you have to invite her. I was a bridesmaid in a wedding and I wasn't even allowed to bring a DATE! (granted I was dating a new guy at the time but all the other bridesmaids had significant others which they were allowed to bring so to me it seemed a bit awkward) but it was because of budget but let me tell ya, the bride didn't lose a wink of sleep over it. It was just the way it was and I understood.
This chic doesn't even deserve to come to your wedding so E needs to suck it up and understand that it's your (and your FIs) day and you guys run the show.

Secondly - after reading through the rest of the posts... something is off kilter here with your man and his priorities. I echo the statements made by other PSers who say you two should be a package deal and your MAN needs to also embrace that.

I am going to reccomed a REALLY good and important book on relationships called His Needs Her Needs by Willard Harley http://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her-Building-Affair-Proof/dp/0800717880/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213234013&sr=1-1

It is EXCELLENT and eye opening on what the differences are between men and women are and why men and women need different things. It emphasizes how when you reach marriage how the two of you are a unit. Anyway I could ramble on and on so I will leave it to you to check it out. But it's WORTH IT!!!!!

 

[allycat0303]

I am in a crazy rotation which is why I haven''t been able to resond individually (although I have read everything).

Bliss, so sorry I didn''t tell any history, I''m 28 years old, and I have been with my guy for 13 years.

So basically, I''ve thought about this, and I''m not really made about the flirting thing. I know it''s bizarre, but on other occassions when I have been present, my guy is really, really affectionate toward me, so I feel like he sends her the right message. I think on the annoyance scale, it''s probably a 2/10. I was more upset when she did it right in front of me, because I thought that was pretty blatent lack of respect toward me.

I think my guy doesn''t stand up for me because he''s pretty selfish in many ways. He wants to have fun, enjoy his life, and have everything his way (yes he said as much last night) Not the selfish part but the rest of it. He doesn''t want to choose between his friend and his fiancé, he would rather have both. Now this is nothing new to me, this is essentially the same conversation we had 4 years ago. In retrospect he says it was probably disrespectful but he would like to ''''put it behind us'''' although he does insist that I invite her because E would be mad if I didn`t. He''s just not mad that I wasn''t invited. And I wasn''t initially mad that I was invited, because if I had mentioned it or raised the issue, then he wouldn''t have gone. He says this now, though, after the fact, but I KNOW that had I made an issue of it, I would have had to scream, yell, probably throw large pobjects for him NOT to go. So basically he wouldn''t have gone if I tied him down to stake. It''s pretty easy to be self-sacrificing in theory, especially when you don''t have to do it.

And I realize how deeply annoyed I am about this. And I apologize if that looks a little snarky or distrustful but I KNOW him. You aren`t with someone for 13 years without being able to see the motivation behind it.

This morning, he wanted to get the number so he could make an appointment to sign the contract with the wedding photographer. I told him not to make a appointement right now. He asked me why, and I told him I had to think. Which has led to a dramatic reversal, of the whole tone of the conversation, he''s suddenly very apologetic. Blah.

All meaness aside though, I''m wondering if this is a deal breaker. It seems to me that our whole life together we''ve dealt with so many things, lists, and lists of stuff. And the relationship survives just on our pure stubborness to work things out. Now I am not saying he is a bad guy, he''s not. There are obviously many wonderful qualities. And I rationalize that this is a 2 in 13 year event. Although on the surface it might seem he''ll never choose me, he does in many respects, just not when his friends are involved. Granted I have very few conflicts with his friends. His close friends are my friends, and we get along fine. I hang out very, very rarely with his friends. Not more then 10 times in our entire 13 year relationship. So I''m torn.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Ally,

I've been following the entire thread, and your last post made me so sad. How can you be ok with being 2nd on his priority list? He's so concerned about E (possibly) being mad, but doesn't care that his FI is mad and hurt? This is ridiculous! You did the right thing by telling hime that you need to think. He seems to just walk all over you, and you let him, but once you stop lettng him do it, he won't. We all want othe the "cool" wife/gf/FI, but there are times when we need to put our foot down, and say enough is enough. I'm with surfgirl, don't make another move without some couples counseling first.

I wish you the best of luck!

 

[brooklyngirl]

Date: 6/12/2008 10:16:43 AM
Author: allycat0303
I am in a crazy rotation which is why I haven''t been able to resond individually (although I have read everything).

Bliss, so sorry I didn''t tell any history, I''m 28 years old, and I have been with my guy for 13 years.

So basically, I''ve thought about this, and I''m not really made about the flirting thing. I know it''s bizarre, but on other occassions when I have been present, my guy is really, really affectionate toward me, so I feel like he sends her the right message. I think on the annoyance scale, it''s probably a 2/10. I was more upset when she did it right in front of me, because I thought that was pretty blatent lack of respect toward me.

I think my guy doesn''t stand up for me because he''s pretty selfish in many ways. He wants to have fun, enjoy his life, and have everything his way (yes he said as much last night) Not the selfish part but the rest of it. He doesn''t want to choose between his friend and his fiancé, he would rather have both. Now this is nothing new to me, this is essentially the same conversation we had 4 years ago. In retrospect he says it was probably disrespectful but he would like to ''put it behind us'' although he does insist that I invite her because E would be mad if I didn`t. He''s just not mad that I wasn''t invited. And I wasn''t initially mad that I was invited, because if I had mentioned it or raised the issue, then he wouldn''t have gone. He says this now, though, after the fact, but I KNOW that had I made an issue of it, I would have had to scream, yell, probably throw large pobjects for him NOT to go. So basically he wouldn''t have gone if I tied him down to stake. It''s pretty easy to be self-sacrificing in theory, especially when you don''t have to do it.

And I realize how deeply annoyed I am about this. And I apologize if that looks a little snarky or distrustful but I KNOW him. You aren`t with someone for 13 years without being able to see the motivation behind it.

This morning, he wanted to get the number so he could make an appointment to sign the contract with the wedding photographer. I told him not to make a appointement right now. He asked me why, and I told him I had to think. Which has led to a dramatic reversal, of the whole tone of the conversation, he''s suddenly very apologetic. Blah.

All meaness aside though, I''m wondering if this is a deal breaker. It seems to me that our whole life together we''ve dealt with so many things, lists, and lists of stuff. And the relationship survives just on our pure stubborness to work things out. Now I am not saying he is a bad guy, he''s not. There are obviously many wonderful qualities. And I rationalize that this is a 2 in 13 year event. Although on the surface it might seem he''ll never choose me, he does in many respects, just not when his friends are involved. Granted I have very few conflicts with his friends. His close friends are my friends, and we get along fine. I hang out very, very rarely with his friends. Not more then 10 times in our entire 13 year relationship. So I''m torn.

I don''t think it matters how often you hang out w/ them or how often this will be a problem. You said it yourself, he''ll choose his friends over you. EVERY TIME. Women get married because they want a husband, and your man is behaving like a boyfriend.

I''m sorry I''m being harsh, but I''m PO''d for you.

 

[purrfectpear]

My heart hurts for you. I could see going forward and continuing to work on his attitudes, BUT...I''m afraid as long as "he still insists that I invite the GF", then yes this IS a deal breaker

Have you considered showing him this thread and letting him see that there is not a single one of us who think it is in any way appropriate to invite this woman?

She would NOT be invited to my wedding, or there would be no wedding at all. She has been rude, crude, and is a general troublemaker.

 

[October2008bride]

Ally this is so sad! It is so hard with the other person just doesn''t GET it you know? He probably doesn''t even understand taht HE should be insulted that his own friend allowed you to be disrespected like that.

There is a place for friends in everyones'' lives, but your FI needs to show you that YOU are his first priority.

I''m glad that you are dealing with this now though - no matter what he says it IS a big deal and it IS a deal breaker.

Good luck...we''re here for you!

 

[allycat0303]

Aww Brooklyngirl, you're so cute. I don`t hang out with his friends because he's a guy's guy. I don't have that much in common with them. He invites me often, I just don't go. It's mainly that I feel if one of his friends is going to attack me or insult me, I had better not be counting on my guy to have my back.

We have a really deep bond, but at the same time there's things about the relationship that are strange (I guess like any relationship). He's made insane sacrifices for my happiness (just as I have for him) but at the same time, there's these annoyances that come up rarely, but I worry say a lot about the relationship. The most worrisome thing was his whole atitude toward it. There was this kind of marked hostility, 'don't you dare talk about this to me' thing he had going for the first few days that really bothered me. And he kept changing the subject even when I said 'Stop changing the subject, I know what you're doing' Usually we can talk about anything and I actually felt (and kind of still do) that if I brought it up it would be a powder keg. Those responses I wrote were pretty much the gist of the conversation. He was completely non-receptive to anything I had to say. AND last night he spent the whole night picking on me (some merited and some not). It was just a really unpleasent atmosphere that I didn`t want to be in.

I think there is definitely merit in saying that I come second to his friends (maybe to his activities too) but he also comes second to my carreer, so I feel like I can't be too unfair to him either. I'm think I will wait before talking more about this. My gut is that there won't be any progress made until he's more willing to discuss it.

Octoberbride: I definitely agree with you. Best case scenario: he doesn't get it, like he's kind of thinking ''why is she getting mad over nothing, she wouldn't have come anyway'' Yet he gets the precieved insult if I don't invite E's girlfriend. So my whole take is that he doesn't WANT to get it. Or he gets it, he just doesn't care.

 

[Gypsy]

Ally. It would be an absolute dealbreaker for me. Even after 13 years.

He would prefer to not deal with his freind''s upset, so you have to invite THAT WOMAN, regardless of the fact that inviting her greatly upsets YOU.

He is selfish. Very much so. And too much so to be a good husband. And he''s not going to change.

 

[October2008bride]

Date: 6/12/2008 12:05:46 PM
Author: allycat0303
Aww Brooklyngirl, you''re so cute. I don`t hang out with his friends because he''s a guy''s guy. I don''t have that much in common with them. He invites me often, I just don''t go. It''s mainly that I feel if one of his friends is going to attack me or insult me, I had better not be counting on my guy to have my back.

We have a really deep bond, but at the same time there''s things about the relationship that are strange (I guess like any relationship). He''s made insane sacrifices for my happiness (just as I have for him) but at the same time, there''s these annoyances that come up rarely, but I worry say a lot about the relationship. The most worrisome thing was his whole atitude toward it. There was this kind of marked hostility, ''don''t you dare talk about this to me'' thing he had going for the first few days that really bothered me. And he kept changing the subject even when I said ''Stop changing the subject, I know what you''re doing'' Usually we can talk about anything and I actually felt (and kind of still do) that if I brought it up it would be a powder keg. Those responses I wrote were pretty much the gist of the conversation. He was completely non-receptive to anything I had to say. AND last night he spent the whole night picking on me (some merited and some not). It was just a really unpleasent atmosphere that I didn`t want to be in.

I think there is definitely merit in saying that I come second to his friends (maybe to his activities too) but he also comes second to my carreer, so I feel like I can''t be too unfair to him either. I''m think I will wait before talking more about this. My gut is that there won''t be any progress made until he''s more willing to discuss it.

Octoberbride: I definitely agree with you. Best case scenario: he doesn''t get it, like he''s kind of thinking ''why is she getting mad over nothing, she wouldn''t have come anyway'' Yet he gets the precieved insult if I don''t invite E''s girlfriend. So my whole take is that he doesn''t WANT to get it. Or he gets it, he just doesn''t care.

Ally I think you are right that he doesn''t want to get it. He is also becoming very defensive in his hostile not wanting to talk about it/changing the subject thing.

I reeeallllly don''t think it is a good idea to wait before talking about it more until he is willing to discuss it. That isn''t always how it works. Sometimes, you have to do something just because it is important to your partner. And if talking about it is this important to you (as it should be!!), and you think this could be a deal breaker, then yeah...he should talk to you about it now.

Don''t just back down on this issue because next thing you know you will be walking down the aisle, looking at that wench in the audience, and wondering whether your FI will always choose his friends'' feelings over yours. Please deal with it now.

I still think back to Krissie''s story about how her FI''s friends wouldn''t make room for her, and her FI said "see ya later" to his friends and walked out hand in hand with Krissie. He made a choice. He showed Krissie that she was number one. Don''t you deserve that Ally?

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 6/12/2008 12:13:03 PM
Author: Gypsy
Ally. It would be an absolute dealbreaker for me. Even after 13 years.


He would prefer to not deal with his freind''s upset, so you have to invite THAT WOMAN, regardless of the fact that inviting her greatly upsets YOU.


He is selfish. Very much so. And too much so to be a good husband. And he''s not going to change.

I completely agree with Gypsy. I absolutely could not marry someone who was not willing to put me first.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 6/12/2008 12:18:27 PM
Author: October2008bride

Date: 6/12/2008 12:05:46 PM
Author: allycat0303
Aww Brooklyngirl, you''re so cute. I don`t hang out with his friends because he''s a guy''s guy. I don''t have that much in common with them. He invites me often, I just don''t go. It''s mainly that I feel if one of his friends is going to attack me or insult me, I had better not be counting on my guy to have my back.

We have a really deep bond, but at the same time there''s things about the relationship that are strange (I guess like any relationship). He''s made insane sacrifices for my happiness (just as I have for him) but at the same time, there''s these annoyances that come up rarely, but I worry say a lot about the relationship. The most worrisome thing was his whole atitude toward it. There was this kind of marked hostility, ''don''t you dare talk about this to me'' thing he had going for the first few days that really bothered me. And he kept changing the subject even when I said ''Stop changing the subject, I know what you''re doing'' Usually we can talk about anything and I actually felt (and kind of still do) that if I brought it up it would be a powder keg. Those responses I wrote were pretty much the gist of the conversation. He was completely non-receptive to anything I had to say. AND last night he spent the whole night picking on me (some merited and some not). It was just a really unpleasent atmosphere that I didn`t want to be in.

I think there is definitely merit in saying that I come second to his friends (maybe to his activities too) but he also comes second to my carreer, so I feel like I can''t be too unfair to him either. I''m think I will wait before talking more about this. My gut is that there won''t be any progress made until he''s more willing to discuss it.

Octoberbride: I definitely agree with you. Best case scenario: he doesn''t get it, like he''s kind of thinking ''why is she getting mad over nothing, she wouldn''t have come anyway'' Yet he gets the precieved insult if I don''t invite E''s girlfriend. So my whole take is that he doesn''t WANT to get it. Or he gets it, he just doesn''t care.

Ally I think you are right that he doesn''t want to get it. He is also becoming very defensive in his hostile not wanting to talk about it/changing the subject thing.

I reeeallllly don''t think it is a good idea to wait before talking about it more until he is willing to discuss it. That isn''t always how it works. Sometimes, you have to do something just because it is important to your partner. And if talking about it is this important to you (as it should be!!), and you think this could be a deal breaker, then yeah...he should talk to you about it now.

Don''t just back down on this issue because next thing you know you will be walking down the aisle, looking at that wench in the audience, and wondering whether your FI will always choose his friends'' feelings over yours. Please deal with it now.

I still think back to Krissie''s story about how her FI''s friends wouldn''t make room for her, and her FI said ''see ya later'' to his friends and walked out hand in hand with Krissie. He made a choice. He showed Krissie that she was number one. Don''t you deserve that Ally?

The part I highlighted is of great concern to me. If you can''t trust him to stand up for you to his friends, to consider your feelings before his friends and to treat you as the most important person in his life--what kind of husband will he be? I think we are all angry with him on your behalf. Does he even grasp what marriage means? This is not a trivial matter. I know that you know that too. Take all the time you need to think this through.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Date: 6/12/2008 12:05:46 PM
Author: allycat0303
Aww Brooklyngirl, you're so cute. I don`t hang out with his friends because he's a guy's guy. I don't have that much in common with them. He invites me often, I just don't go. It's mainly that I feel if one of his friends is going to attack me or insult me, I had better not be counting on my guy to have my back.

We have a really deep bond, but at the same time there's things about the relationship that are strange (I guess like any relationship). He's made insane sacrifices for my happiness (just as I have for him) but at the same time, there's these annoyances that come up rarely, but I worry say a lot about the relationship. The most worrisome thing was his whole atitude toward it. There was this kind of marked hostility, 'don't you dare talk about this to me' thing he had going for the first few days that really bothered me. And he kept changing the subject even when I said 'Stop changing the subject, I know what you're doing' Usually we can talk about anything and I actually felt (and kind of still do) that if I brought it up it would be a powder keg. Those responses I wrote were pretty much the gist of the conversation. He was completely non-receptive to anything I had to say. AND last night he spent the whole night picking on me (some merited and some not). It was just a really unpleasent atmosphere that I didn`t want to be in.

I think there is definitely merit in saying that I come second to his friends (maybe to his activities too) but he also comes second to my carreer, so I feel like I can't be too unfair to him either. I'm think I will wait before talking more about this. My gut is that there won't be any progress made until he's more willing to discuss it.

Octoberbride: I definitely agree with you. Best case scenario: he doesn't get it, like he's kind of thinking 'why is she getting mad over nothing, she wouldn't have come anyway' Yet he gets the precieved insult if I don't invite E's girlfriend. So my whole take is that he doesn't WANT to get it. Or he gets it, he just doesn't care.

Ally, I think there's a big difference between not getting in the middle, and taking the other side. Your FI took his friend's and the she-devil's side, it's so much worse than just not sticking up for you. Imagine, he's hostile towards *you*. I still don't understand why it's ok to slight you and not E and his witch.

As far as FI's friends, I am in a similar situation as you, I don't hang out w/ FI friend (ok, he has 1

) when he's in town. That chemistry just wasn't there, and that's perfectly fine. But it doesn't mean that I should be treated poorly, or not invited out.

As far as having your career come first, I'm not sure what to say about that, as I don't agree with that sentiment. However, at least by making your career a priority, your family (FI and any future children) will reap the monetary benefits. What benefits will this family get from FI's allegiance to his friends? I'm sorry, but this marriage seems to be low on the priority list, and I don't see how any marriage can survive that.

I have to agree with Gypsy here, and say this would be a deal breaker. ETA you deserve someone who will put you above everyone else... I think that's even one of the vows, something about *forsake all others*

. Just a thought.

Take your time and think carefully about the kind of life/marriage you want to have, and if FI can give that to you.

 

[Aloros]

*hugs* This is a difficult situation to deal with - and it doesn''t help that your FI is being so stubborn.

That said, there are times where you just have to put your foot down - and it seems like this is one of them. No one is perfect, and it''s good to learn to let the little things go, but this just isn''t a little thing. I wouldn''t invite that girl to the wedding, and if E gets upset, it is your FI''s job to explain to E why she was not invited.

Friends don''t always have to get along 100% smoothly, and friendships are usually better if the people involved are willing to talk about their feelings and to hash things out. Your FI is doing way too much compensating for his friends'' offensive actions.

I went out with my FI (then boyfriend) and some of our/his friends nearly a year ago. One of his friends was intoxicated and newly divorced, and when I came back from the bathroom, there she was, sitting in MY bf''s lap, while I had no place to sit. I was fuming. FI gave me the deer-in-headlights look, as he obviously didn''t know what to say. The next day he spoke to her, and she apologized to me for her behavior.

I guess what I''m trying to say is - this shouldn''t even be your problem. It''s his job to make sure that his friends know that you come first, not yours. How would he feel were the situation reversed? And I have a hard time believing that it''s more important to your FI to have HER at your wedding than it is for you to NOT have her there. He''s essentially choosing between making YOU upset on YOUR wedding day and making E upset on a day that has only passing significance to him. It should be a no-brainer.

And I get what you''re saying about putting your career ahead of your FI. But I just don''t think they''re equivalent. I''m sure FI will be benefitting in some manner from your devotion to your career. What benefit do you derive from his devotion to his friends?

Unified front. Packaged deal. Same team.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 6/12/2008 10:16:43 AM
Author: allycat0303
I hang out very, very rarely with his friends. Not more then 10 times in our entire 13 year relationship. So I''m torn.

Maybe my relationship is just different but I have a huge problem with this statement.

We''ve only been together for half of the time you''ve been with your fiance. But we respect what is important to both of us. He has a lot of friends, I don''t. I moved around from city to city with school and new jobs while he has stayed in the same exact city with the same exact friends since he was 4. Will he ever drop them completely for me? Sure...if I really had a problem with any of them. But would I ever ask him to? Absolutely not. Instead, I have made his friends an important part of my life because they are all very important to him. Hanging out with the people in his life only 10 times in 13 years is a problem to me. That means that all the other times that he is with his friends, he isn''t with you. They are a separate part of his life that you are not involved in and to me (while I agree that couples need their own space) relationships should be a unity...a bond. The only time I don''t hang out with my FF and his friends is if I know that all they are doing is playing basketball and working on music. Any other time I''m there.

Ally, your relationship has survived a lot of drama from what I can read and I really wish you the best happy ending the world could ever give someone. But hopefully you use your head in conjunction with your heart to make the right decision. Maybe this will all be a learning experience...maybe a deal breaker, that can only be answered by you. But I really do hope you take the time to analyze this one thoroughly (and it sounds like you are).

 

[LostSapphire]

Date: 6/12/2008 12:05:46 PM
Author: allycat0303
Aww Brooklyngirl, you''re so cute. I don`t hang out with his friends because he''s a guy''s guy. I don''t have that much in common with them. He invites me often, I just don''t go. It''s mainly that I feel if one of his friends is going to attack me or insult me, I had better not be counting on my guy to have my back.

We have a really deep bond, but at the same time there''s things about the relationship that are strange (I guess like any relationship). He''s made insane sacrifices for my happiness (just as I have for him) but at the same time, there''s these annoyances that come up rarely, but I worry say a lot about the relationship. The most worrisome thing was his whole atitude toward it. There was this kind of marked hostility, ''don''t you dare talk about this to me'' thing he had going for the first few days that really bothered me. And he kept changing the subject even when I said ''Stop changing the subject, I know what you''re doing'' Usually we can talk about anything and I actually felt (and kind of still do) that if I brought it up it would be a powder keg. Those responses I wrote were pretty much the gist of the conversation. He was completely non-receptive to anything I had to say. AND last night he spent the whole night picking on me (some merited and some not). It was just a really unpleasent atmosphere that I didn`t want to be in.

I think there is definitely merit in saying that I come second to his friends (maybe to his activities too) but he also comes second to my carreer, so I feel like I can''t be too unfair to him either. I''m think I will wait before talking more about this. My gut is that there won''t be any progress made until he''s more willing to discuss it.

Octoberbride: I definitely agree with you. Best case scenario: he doesn''t get it, like he''s kind of thinking ''why is she getting mad over nothing, she wouldn''t have come anyway'' Yet he gets the precieved insult if I don''t invite E''s girlfriend. So my whole take is that he doesn''t WANT to get it. Or he gets it, he just doesn''t care.

I hope for your sake that the conversation takes place *before* the wedding.

 

[allycat0303]

Logan Sapphire: Before the wedding, don''t worry

I''m not that silly. He has gotten defensive in the past, and the only way to get him to talk is to give him a couple of days to think about it. I don''t think forcing the issue tonight is going to make him less defensive. His anger is not justified, but getting into a screaming match is not going to make him any more receptive.

My take on it is at this very moment, the relationship is a little fragile, and we are both angry, so there won`t be a rational discussion until I calm down a bit and stop looking at all his actions in a negative light.

 

[cara]

Wow, Ally, I am aching for you. After all the support he showed when dealing with your family, then this? Selfishness to the core. Concern for friends and appearances over you. Sound familiar?

Please deal with this and don''t hide from it. Don''t let him bully you into acceptance. Perhaps counseling, for you alone? Or couples counseling to get a neutral perspective?

The bigger issue is him prioritizing his friend''s potential anger and hurt over your actual anger and hurt. Whether on not you two end up inviting this woman to your wedding is almost irrelevant. What is so much more important is for your FI to see your point in this and raise the issue with his friend, and for you to then have cause to trust that in the future he will be taking your side and standing up for you, not simply taking the path of least resistance that is presented to him by his friends.

And prioritizing your (medical) career is not the same thing as freely allowing one''s personal friends to insult your SO. Granted, I don''t know the extent to which you take your medical training, but in some ways it is like being in the military. You might love your family, but you still have to ship out when duty calls. Medical training just requires absurd amounts of time, as long as you ARE prioritizing your FI when it is an option, and as long as he supports you in pursuit of your career (which presumably will eventually bring financial benefits to your family unit) then you are doing the best you can.

Good luck with this - and I echo the others, you need to bring this up again, sooner rather than later, and perhaps with a referee (counselor) in the room. Fears of this nature regarding your FI''s devotion to you and respect for you are no way to go into a marriage.