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Disappointed!! 1.94ct Whiteflash G turned out to be H~I

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Julyisjuly, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. WillyDiamond
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    by WillyDiamond » Dec 27, 2018
    TL said he wanted to see the stone himself and check to see what the color was. At least that is how I read his post.

    Here is an excerpt from his post:

    I agree. Just judging from the picture nobody would suspect this diamond of being anywhere in the near colorless range! It certainly looks nothing like the images of the stone on the website. I am looking forward to inspecting it later today
     
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  2. kmoro
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    by kmoro » Dec 27, 2018
    Maybe we should wait until he has a chance to see it? The OP said they would drive to WF today.
     
  3. SandyinAnaheim
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    by SandyinAnaheim » Dec 27, 2018
    I agree with @Wewechew. What some of you may not know is that the Chief Gemologist at CBI is Lieve Peeters. She is acclaimed for her expertise, is a judicial expert with the Belgian Ministry of Justice, and is brought in by Interpol in cases related to diamonds. She is the one that does the grading of CBI stones before they get sent off for grading. I recently purchased a stone she graded a J before sending it off for grading, and it came back an I. So it would seem that neither she, nor AGS, appear to be soft on color.

    In the past I purchased a 1.5 ct I VS1 GIA XXX that was dead in all lighting. Why? It had poor cut, yet it was still a GIA XXX. Yes, GIA is the BIG DOG, but I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. Based on my experiences buying various stones, I will trust an AGS report, but not a GIA report. The digital metrics AGS uses are far more accurate in my opinion.

    As to this particular stone, I agree that it does not appear to match the AGS report. I wonder if there was a clerical error somewhere at the AGS lab. Mistaked CAN and DO happen from time to time. I think it would be prudent for WF to challenge the color grade with AGS and have it reassessed.

    From CBI website:
    Lieve Peeters is the Chief Gemologist for Infinity Diamonds and a highly-sought expert in the Antwerp diamond sector. With over 30 years of industry experience Ms. Peeters holds a continuing position as judicial expert with the Belgian Ministry of Justice. Formerly the Diamond-Expert Coordinator for the Belgian Ministry of Finance and Economic Affairs, Ms. Peeters also worked as a sorter for DeBeers sightholder Stieglitz & Grossman and a buyer-grader for Prestige Diamonds. Holding degrees in polishing and gemology, Ms. Peeters is in regular demand as a subject-matter authority in the areas of rough and polished diamonds.
     
  4. lovedogs
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    by lovedogs » Dec 27, 2018
    Right, but that doesn't mean he's allowed to specifically comment on a stone that he's selling, if it were to be returned (as that's specifically against the rules, I think).

    So yes he's going to inspect it, but my point is that he might not be able to come back and give us his opinion/thoughts.
     
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  5. WillyDiamond
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    by WillyDiamond » Dec 27, 2018
    what? If TL cannot comment on the stone then who can? He is the face of WF on this forum. I would be surprised if he did not comment. You mean he would inspect and not comment? When we speak to the sales people at the PS vendors they comment to us all the time.
     
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  6. partgypsy
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    by partgypsy » Dec 27, 2018
    He may not come back and comment, but I do hope we get an update from the op and hopefully a happy resolution.
     
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  7. WillyDiamond
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    by WillyDiamond » Dec 27, 2018
    I could understand if TL did not comment, but he has already given comments and thoughts on this thread. Had he not posted, then I understand, but he did post multiple times.....
     
  8. foxinsox
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    by foxinsox » Dec 27, 2018
    He also could be just doing other things, the OP may not have come to the store today or any other reason he is yet to post..
     
  9. Julyisjuly
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    by Julyisjuly » Dec 27, 2018
    Hi everyone, Thanks for following up. We were busy on the road and forgot to bring iPhone charger, so limited the phone use to save battery for navigation.

    ⭐️The pictures I took yesterday were definitely impacted by surrounding color, the lights in my place have some yellow tint. See below:
    IMG_3215.JPG

    ⭐️The apprisal guy is Steven Jarvis, as several of you mentioned here. His assessment picture showed a yellow tint.

    ⭐️I campared some other stones at WF today, since only 3 stones can be showed together each time. I kinda lost track on which one I was taking picture with.
    In this set of 4 pic: the bigger ones on left are H, I, the smaller ones are the G 1.941 and the most far right one is another G1.904.
    The differences are very subtle in all 4.
    The sales person and I can see the other G 1.904 is slightly slightly whiter than the G1.941.
    IMG_3182.JPG IMG_3174.JPG IMG_3175.JPG
    IMG_3183.JPG
     
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  10. Julyisjuly
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    by Julyisjuly » Dec 28, 2018
    I am so sorry, I didn't really keep track of pictures. Now I looked back in my phone, I can't even tell which is which. All I can remember, The bigger size ones are H and I, the smaller ones are the 1.941G and another G they have in house.
    I also saw a GIA G, but can't recall which is it in the picture.....
    I think at the end, the color look all very similar to me, I can tell a very subtle difference when I look in person while my fiancé can't tell any difference between these G to I.

    IMG_3198.JPG IMG_3211.JPG IMG_3212.JPG IMG_3197.JPG IMG_3193.JPG IMG_3196.JPG
     
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  11. kindred
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    by kindred » Dec 28, 2018
    What did you end up deciding to do?
     
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  12. TreeScientist
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    by TreeScientist » Dec 28, 2018
    I'm pretty sure you got the Gs on the right mixed up. The one on the far right is the 1.941 G. I can easily see the difference between that one and the one right next to it (which I assume is the 1.90 G), even though the side profile pics are pretty terrible.

    Would also be interested to hear what you decided to do.
     
  13. TreeScientist
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    by TreeScientist » Dec 28, 2018
    I agree. It's easy to feel bullied on this site if you don't like diamonds that are G or lower. But trust me, you're not alone on here. There are several of us like you who prefer the icy white look.

    I hold a similar opinion to your own. I don't like color in colorless (D-V color) diamonds. I do like fancy color diamonds and diamonds that look like fancies (@Rockdiamond has some beautiful Y-Zs that look like vivid yellows in his settings :) ). But to me, a colorless diamond should be icy. I can easily see the difference, even face up, between a properly-graded GIA G and a D. And while I don't think the G looks bad, and I can certainly appreciate why others like them, the D just looks better to my eyes.

    Mind you, this is cultural conditioning to associate colorlessness with value aside. Even if I didn't know the D was more expensive, my eye would still go to it. Trust me, I wish D-Es were cheaper. Would save us a lot of money! haha
     
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  14. Jimmianne
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    by Jimmianne » Dec 28, 2018
    Treescientist, my fellow scientist, it is not so interesting how we are all different?
    Between the cultural and the biological and the who-knows-whatical we all have our special preferences. For some reason my heart beats a little faster when I see color flashes in a diamond with tint. I guess I am one of the lucky ones, funds-wise. : )
    But I would not turn down an icey white D, in case anyone is giving them away this holiday season.:lol-2:

    Kmoro, funny. Now I will never look at a « P » graded diamond quite the same way. Lol
     
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  15. CareBear
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    by CareBear » Dec 28, 2018
    I think you're right! To me the second from the right looks the most colorless.
     
    


    


  16. ctsamg
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    by ctsamg » Dec 28, 2018
    Sadly, eyes simply do not work like this
     
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  17. Dancing Fire
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    by Dancing Fire » Dec 28, 2018
    If I had a lot of $$$ I would be sporting an F color stone, but since don't I'm stuck with an H color.
     
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  18. kmoro
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    by kmoro » Dec 28, 2018
    lol ... I can see this is going too far, hahaha :twirl:

    DF ... you and everyone else, including me, knows darn well that an H ... or I or J or K ... or G or F or E ... etc etc etc ... are all beautiful!!!! :naughty::wink2: poor you stuck with an H ... lol

    This is just PS land, where we get to split hairs and discuss personal preferences ... and no one personal preference is better than another!

    What I want to say now is: one person’s trash is another person’s treasure .... but it’s hard to keep a straight face saying that in a diamond forum.

    I am forever entertained and grateful that we are all in such a luxurious position to debate diamonds!
     
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  19. CareBear
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    by CareBear » Dec 28, 2018
    @Julyisjuly Since it doesn't sound like you or your fiance are that color sensitive and the 1.94 is now 'tainted' in your mind, may I suggested you go lower and bigger? H isn't much color difference from the 1.94, which I presume is a borderline H.
     
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  20. TreeScientist
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    by TreeScientist » Dec 28, 2018
    This is true, but did she look at higher colors as well? Telling the difference between an H and an I is much more difficult than telling the difference between, say, a D and a G...

    I think the real question is, did she not like the color in the 1.94 "G" (or H/I) from a visual perception standpoint (because it looked dark or dingy in her home lighting), or did she not like it because she felt that she did not get what she paid for? If it's the former, being that she didn't like the color, then maybe sticking to a "true" G or even an F may be warranted. But if it's the latter, being that she felt cheated by the grading but didn't really mind the color, then yes, going for a larger "true" H or I that is correctly graded would make sense.
     
  21. CareBear
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    by CareBear » Dec 28, 2018
    From the photos the I with VSB looks whiter than the H. Does it appear that way IRL? Curious to know how your AGS H compares to your wife's! From the side, my AGS H round, in a six prong platinum solitaire, looks more tinted than my GIA H cushion, in a halo, where the stone is more exposed. Also, the cushion has some fluo. Not sure if the prongs or lack of fluo in my AGS round is making it look more tinted.
     
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  22. Stephan
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    by Stephan » Dec 28, 2018
    The stone on the right looks like it is brown.
     
  23. TreeScientist
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    by TreeScientist » Dec 28, 2018
    Agreed. It appears to be the most tinted of the 4. I agree with @CareBear that the 2nd from the right is definitely the brightest/least tinted of the 4. It is noticeably brighter face up, even at first glance, compared to the other 3.
     
  24. CareBear
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    by CareBear » Dec 28, 2018
    I was thinking the same! Could it be a G on a brown scale and not yellow, making it look so much darker than other Gs and even Hs?
     
  25. bmfang
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    by bmfang » Dec 28, 2018
    Face up they all look more or less equal to my eyes. However from the side, you, the far right stone has a markedly darker body tone. My eyes aren’t fooling me if others are also seeing it.
     
  26. partgypsy
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    by partgypsy » Dec 28, 2018
    Did u end up picking a different stone? It might have been good to have in line up even higher color stones (def) to see if you would prefer a more colorless (mind clean) stone even if smaller or more expensive.
     
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  27. Matthews1127
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  28. Matilda
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    by Matilda » Dec 28, 2018
    Is the second one from the left an I colour? It seems the whitest to me..
     
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  29. SandyinAnaheim
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    by SandyinAnaheim » Dec 28, 2018
    That's the stone that appealed to me too.
     
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  30. TreeScientist
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    by TreeScientist » Dec 28, 2018
    I've read this in a few other threads as well. Re: That CBI internally grades all diamonds for color prior to sending them off to the lab, and if it comes back from AGS with a higher grade than their internally-assigned grade, that they'll send it back to be re-graded down. In fact, out of the threads/reports of AGS being "soft" on color, I've never seen any mention of a CBI diamond being appraised lower than expected.

    I would hope that WF would do the same, but I've never heard anything about them sending stones back to be re-graded down.

    Perhaps. From the appraisal photographs on the first page it does appear to have a brownish yellow tint. Not straight brown or champagne-y brown, but more like a dark/murky yellow or brown-yellow.
     
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